So this is not a hate crime?

KC138045

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-teens-held-connection-kidnapping-after-facebook-live-torture-video-n703331

Reverse the races and I guarantee that is what the police chief would call it. These punks need to be locked away for a long time.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

KC138045 said:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-teens-held-connection-kidnapping-after-facebook-live-torture-video-n703331

Reverse the races and I guarantee that is what the police chief would call it. These punks need to be locked away for a long time.

Give it time and perhaps it will be. In my mind it should be.

What an event. Wow. Let alone the depth of cruelty... the level of stupidity amongst those four assailants is off the charts (live recording of the event).

Christ, I'm starting to think the US needs a control-alt-delete. Just start again, man. Yikes.

oftenreading

I didn't watch the video and I'm not going to. I have no interest in seeing that. Maybe that makes me unqualified to comment, but if the facts are as reported in the article then it sounds like it fits the definition of a hate crime. I guess the police/prosecutors need to try to tease out if it was really motivated by racial hatred or whether there was another motivation and the racist comments were just part and parcel of a whole bunch of other hateful comments and motivations by these losers.

tbergs

The video doesn't go in to much detail and only highlights some of the language and less explicit content. Based on the information provided so far, this qualifies as a hate crime on the surface. Once the county attorney is provided with all the evidence they may decide to charge it as a hate crime. Both race and disability would be qualify it for a bias hate crime if they can prove that was the motivation, which shouldn't be too hard based on the parts of the live feed I saw.

I agree though, 4 white teens doing this to any minority would immediately be charged as a hate crime.

KC138045

tbergs said:

The video doesn't go in to much detail and only highlights some of the language and less explicit content. Based on the information provided so far, this qualifies as a hate crime on the surface. Once the county attorney is provided with all the evidence they may decide to charge it as a hate crime. Both race and disability would be qualify it for a bias hate crime if they can prove that was the motivation, which shouldn't be too hard based on the parts of the live feed I saw.

I agree though, 4 white teens doing this to any minority would immediately be charged as a hate crime.

That and the headline would not be "4 Teens Held in Connection of Kidnapping" it would be 4 White Teens Kidnap and Beat Unarmed Black Teen.

BLACK35

KC138045 said:

tbergs said:

The video doesn't go in to much detail and only highlights some of the language and less explicit content. Based on the information provided so far, this qualifies as a hate crime on the surface. Once the county attorney is provided with all the evidence they may decide to charge it as a hate crime. Both race and disability would be qualify it for a bias hate crime if they can prove that was the motivation, which shouldn't be too hard based on the parts of the live feed I saw.

I agree though, 4 white teens doing this to any minority would immediately be charged as a hate crime.

That and the headline would not be "4 Teens Held in Connection of Kidnapping" it would be 4 White Teens Kidnap and Beat Unarmed Black Teen.

You got that right!!

hedonist

To me, seems most crimes are borne of hate - whether toward the victim or even the perpetrator or whatever reason.

No matter, this is fucking disgusting. Race isn't an issue for me - acting like a piece of shit, treating another as such?

Shameful.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

hedonist said:

To me, seems most crimes are borne of hate - whether toward the victim or even the perpetrator or whatever reason.

No matter, this is fucking disgusting. Race isn't an issue for me - acting like a piece of shit, treating another as such?

Shameful.

Hedo...

You've been kind of quiet lately. Hope you are well.

* And of course... I agree with your sentiments. Absolutely brutal. No excuse.

my2hands

Clearly a hate crime... and kidnapping... and torture... i hope someone has the balls to charge and prosecute this scum properly

hedonist

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

hedonist said:

To me, seems most crimes are borne of hate - whether toward the victim or even the perpetrator or whatever reason.

No matter, this is fucking disgusting. Race isn't an issue for me - acting like a piece of shit, treating another as such?

Shameful.

Hedo...

You've been kind of quiet lately. Hope you are well.

* And of course... I agree with your sentiments. Absolutely brutal. No excuse.

Thanks, my friend. Had other stuff going on, plus just politicked-out...heavinessed-out.

Good wishes to you and your family as we enter this new year

JC29856

Terrorism?
Was the attack politically motivated?

jeffbr

Absolutely a hate crime. No question that it would have been swiftly labeled as such by the feds had the races been reversed. Hopefully the feds will be consistent and will prosecute this as such. I'm sure there are race-baiting apologists who will tell you that black on white crime can never be hate crime due to historical, institutionalized racism, but by every objective standard, this should fall under both the letter and spirit of the hate crime laws. "Fuck white people" should be a dead giveaway. I hope these 4 shitbags get what is coming to them. Despicable and horrific.

g under p

hedonist said:

To me, seems most crimes are borne of hate - whether toward the victim or even the perpetrator or whatever reason.

No matter, this is fucking disgusting. Race isn't an issue for me - acting like a piece of shit, treating another as such?

Shameful.

I would agree with this. I like to watch that Justice Channel or something called that and try to become the investigater in solving the crime based on the evidence. It dawned on me some time ago that most if not all those murders/crimes originate from hate at some point. Whether it's a husband or wife killing each other.....An overwhelming feeling of despised hate has to fall over one to kill or brutalize another. Either that or one suffers of a mental disorder to then live on as they've done nothing. What appears to happen above is outright sick and I find no need to watch or listen.....Mind you all races are capable of these horrific crimes.

Peace

PJPOWER

Most definitely a hate crime!!! Hope these sociopaths are never allowed to be out in the general population. What a bunch of asshats. Their disdain for Trump and white people is no excuse for this kind of asshat behavior. Fuck them.

HughFreakingDillon

KC138045 said:

tbergs said:

The video doesn't go in to much detail and only highlights some of the language and less explicit content. Based on the information provided so far, this qualifies as a hate crime on the surface. Once the county attorney is provided with all the evidence they may decide to charge it as a hate crime. Both race and disability would be qualify it for a bias hate crime if they can prove that was the motivation, which shouldn't be too hard based on the parts of the live feed I saw.

I agree though, 4 white teens doing this to any minority would immediately be charged as a hate crime.

That and the headline would not be "4 Teens Held in Connection of Kidnapping" it would be 4 White Teens Kidnap and Beat Unarmed Black Teen.

couldn't agree more.

Dirtie_Frank

They have charged the four with a hate crime

https://washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Dirtie_Frank said:

They have charged the four with a hate crime

https://washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/

Very appropriate.

KC138045

Dirtie_Frank said:

They have charged the four with a hate crime

https://washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/

"Police declined to give the race of the attackers or the victim. In the video and mugshots released by authorities Thursday, the attackers appear black; the victim in the video appears to be white."

Seriously!?! Just saw they were Black and the victim is White.

HughFreakingDillon

KC138045 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

They have charged the four with a hate crime

https://washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/

"Police declined to give the race of the attackers or the victim. In the video and mugshots released by authorities Thursday, the attackers appear black; the victim in the video appears to be white."

Seriously!?! Just saw they were Black and the victim is White.

agreed. hiding this shit that we all know will come out anyway is dangerous. just fucking put it out there. "these are the facts of the case".

oftenreading

HughFreakingDillon said:

KC138045 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

They have charged the four with a hate crime

https://washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/

"Police declined to give the race of the attackers or the victim. In the video and mugshots released by authorities Thursday, the attackers appear black; the victim in the video appears to be white."

Seriously!?! Just saw they were Black and the victim is White.

agreed. hiding this shit that we all know will come out anyway is dangerous. just fucking put it out there. "these are the facts of the case".

Well, the media has to be careful with how they identify individuals' race and other such characteristics. The court can sort that part out.

And HFD, I believe you were among those arguing that race is not based on any scientifically provable differences in people (which is agree with, but just pointing that out).

KC138045

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

KC138045 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

They have charged the four with a hate crime

https://washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/

"Police declined to give the race of the attackers or the victim. In the video and mugshots released by authorities Thursday, the attackers appear black; the victim in the video appears to be white."

Seriously!?! Just saw they were Black and the victim is White.

agreed. hiding this shit that we all know will come out anyway is dangerous. just fucking put it out there. "these are the facts of the case".

Well, the media has to be careful with how they identify individuals' race and other such characteristics. The court can sort that part out.

And HFD, I believe you were among those arguing that race is not based on any scientifically provable differences in people (which is agree with, but just pointing that out).

Well whenever its a white on black crime they are sure to make the races known immediately. Then comes Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, BLM, and riot an looting in the streets.

jeffbr

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

KC138045 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

They have charged the four with a hate crime

https://washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/

"Police declined to give the race of the attackers or the victim. In the video and mugshots released by authorities Thursday, the attackers appear black; the victim in the video appears to be white."

Seriously!?! Just saw they were Black and the victim is White.

agreed. hiding this shit that we all know will come out anyway is dangerous. just fucking put it out there. "these are the facts of the case".

Well, the media has to be careful with how they identify individuals' race and other such characteristics. The court can sort that part out.

And HFD, I believe you were among those arguing that race is not based on any scientifically provable differences in people (which is agree with, but just pointing that out).

The media should concern itself with facts, not try to be careful about how they obfuscate or frame things. Are you a proponent of hate crime statutes as they relate to race? If not, then I get that, since I tend to agree with Hedo and think all crimes of violence have a seed of hate. But if you are a proponent, but can't use race as a factor since it doesn't exist, then how do you reconcile that?

Indifference71

Absolutely fucking disgusting. Hopefully these 4 animals never walk the streets again.

mcgruff10

KC138045 said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

KC138045 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

They have charged the four with a hate crime

https://washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/

"Police declined to give the race of the attackers or the victim. In the video and mugshots released by authorities Thursday, the attackers appear black; the victim in the video appears to be white."

Seriously!?! Just saw they were Black and the victim is White.

agreed. hiding this shit that we all know will come out anyway is dangerous. just fucking put it out there. "these are the facts of the case".

Well, the media has to be careful with how they identify individuals' race and other such characteristics. The court can sort that part out.

And HFD, I believe you were among those arguing that race is not based on any scientifically provable differences in people (which is agree with, but just pointing that out).

Well whenever its a white on black crime they are sure to make the races known immediately. Then comes Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, BLM, and riot an looting in the streets.

100% agree. That shit sells more advertisement time.

Indifference71

mcgruff10 said:

KC138045 said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

KC138045 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

They have charged the four with a hate crime

https://washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/

"Police declined to give the race of the attackers or the victim. In the video and mugshots released by authorities Thursday, the attackers appear black; the victim in the video appears to be white."

Seriously!?! Just saw they were Black and the victim is White.

agreed. hiding this shit that we all know will come out anyway is dangerous. just fucking put it out there. "these are the facts of the case".

Well, the media has to be careful with how they identify individuals' race and other such characteristics. The court can sort that part out.

And HFD, I believe you were among those arguing that race is not based on any scientifically provable differences in people (which is agree with, but just pointing that out).

Well whenever its a white on black crime they are sure to make the races known immediately. Then comes Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, BLM, and riot an looting in the streets.

100% agree. That shit sells more advertisement time.

Yep. Sensationalism at its finest.

mcgruff10

On a side note, what the hell is going on in Chicago? It seems like a war zone.

PJ_Soul

Yeah, the article says that charges are still pending and that charging it as a hate crime is being considered, so I'm not sure where the gall is coming from, OP. If they choose not to try it as a hate crime, that would be the time to get offended, because yeah, it probably should be.

oftenreading

jeffbr said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

KC138045 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

They have charged the four with a hate crime

https://washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/

"Police declined to give the race of the attackers or the victim. In the video and mugshots released by authorities Thursday, the attackers appear black; the victim in the video appears to be white."

Seriously!?! Just saw they were Black and the victim is White.

agreed. hiding this shit that we all know will come out anyway is dangerous. just fucking put it out there. "these are the facts of the case".

Well, the media has to be careful with how they identify individuals' race and other such characteristics. The court can sort that part out.

And HFD, I believe you were among those arguing that race is not based on any scientifically provable differences in people (which is agree with, but just pointing that out).

The media should concern itself with facts, not try to be careful about how they obfuscate or frame things. Are you a proponent of hate crime statutes as they relate to race? If not, then I get that, since I tend to agree with Hedo and think all crimes of violence have a seed of hate. But if you are a proponent, but can't use race as a factor since it doesn't exist, then how do you reconcile that?

Good question (your last point) but more than I can reply to on my phone in the time I have at work, so more later. Right now I'll just say that my point was that I can understand why the media is cautious about identifying people by race. It's a minefield for them.

HughFreakingDillon

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

KC138045 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

They have charged the four with a hate crime

https://washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/

"Police declined to give the race of the attackers or the victim. In the video and mugshots released by authorities Thursday, the attackers appear black; the victim in the video appears to be white."

Seriously!?! Just saw they were Black and the victim is White.

agreed. hiding this shit that we all know will come out anyway is dangerous. just fucking put it out there. "these are the facts of the case".

Well, the media has to be careful with how they identify individuals' race and other such characteristics. The court can sort that part out.

And HFD, I believe you were among those arguing that race is not based on any scientifically provable differences in people (which is agree with, but just pointing that out).

absolutely. I think, unless being used to describe a criminal at large, saying the races of the accused is useless. all it does is enrage the masses, confirm their own biases. to me it's prejudicial, no different than saying "5 youths wearing Metallica t shirts rob liquor store". there is no reason to bring it up, never was. but you can't put that cat back in the bag.

jeffbr

oftenreading said:

jeffbr said:

oftenreading said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

KC138045 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:

They have charged the four with a hate crime

https://washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/

"Police declined to give the race of the attackers or the victim. In the video and mugshots released by authorities Thursday, the attackers appear black; the victim in the video appears to be white."

Seriously!?! Just saw they were Black and the victim is White.

agreed. hiding this shit that we all know will come out anyway is dangerous. just fucking put it out there. "these are the facts of the case".

Well, the media has to be careful with how they identify individuals' race and other such characteristics. The court can sort that part out.

And HFD, I believe you were among those arguing that race is not based on any scientifically provable differences in people (which is agree with, but just pointing that out).

The media should concern itself with facts, not try to be careful about how they obfuscate or frame things. Are you a proponent of hate crime statutes as they relate to race? If not, then I get that, since I tend to agree with Hedo and think all crimes of violence have a seed of hate. But if you are a proponent, but can't use race as a factor since it doesn't exist, then how do you reconcile that?

Good question (your last point) but more than I can reply to on my phone in the time I have at work, so more later. Right now I'll just say that my point was that I can understand why the media is cautious about identifying people by race. It's a minefield for them.

Fair enough. I'm still not completely on board with the notion of hate crimes (the underlying crime is the important part for me), but if they are statute, then I believe they should be applied in an impartial manner. It looks like it is going to be applied in this case, so for the sake of consistency, I'm glad about that.

KC138045

PJ_Soul said:

Yeah, the article says that charges are still pending and that charging it as a hate crime is being considered, so I'm not sure where the gall is coming from, OP. If they choose not to try it as a hate crime, that would be the time to get offended, because yeah, it probably should be.

In my original post I was referring to what the Police Chief said in the video about not being able to call it a hate crime. They ended up charging all four with kidnapping and a hate crime.