Russia's Influence On The American Election

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  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 7,769
    mrussel1 said:
    JC29856 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    JC29856 said:

    One curious thing throughout this anti-Russia hysteria is the use of the word “fact.” American politicians and media emphatically pound into the public the FACT that Russian meddled in the American elections. Facts are interesting critters, aren’t they? The last time I checked, they are always accompanied by evidence, so it’s curious that one often hears the word “fact” but rarely hears anything about “evidence,” and the corporate media rarely even questions these so-called “facts” to ask for evidence. You’d think it would be common sense to merely ask for the evidence to support the facts, and the rare occasion a reporter does naively stumble upon this question, the answer is always the same: “Yes, we have evidence, but it’s ‘classified.’” How many times have you heard that song and dance? It seems to me that “classified” has become just another form of censorship; in reality, the American people and the world at large are on a “need to know” basis. Big Brother tells us what they want us to know, faithfully echoed in the lapdog media, and what they don’t want us to know is “classified.”  How convenient in the land of a “free” democratic society.


    https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/08/10/the-american-anti-russia-hysteria-and-sanctions-bill/

    Fact, Adam Schiff, Mark Warner and the rest of the Democratic leadership, Obama, Obama's security team and all national security persons with access to the top secret data are all on the same page.  Just because your ass hasn't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Because it's top secret, you can either choose to believe the evidence exists by believing the leaders you think are trustworthy, or you can disbelief because you think Trump and his family of cronies are trustworthy.  Until it's de-classified, these are your choices.  No matter how many posts you write or articles you read that say the same thing, it's still classified.  
    didn't every member privy to the intelligence say their is no evidence of Trump Russia collusion?
    that includes those you named.
    anyway, the point is there has been zero evidence put forth that Russia meddled in the election. zero
    If I missed it then educate me.
    The stories you've been posting aren't about Trump, rather about whether Russia interfered.  Those are two different angles.  Second, no one is saying that now that the DTJ email was released.  So... that's why we don't start and end investigations on teh same day.  They actually take time.  
    To your last point, you obviously are not digesting what I wrote.  There hasn't been any PUBLIC evidence.  But all of the committees, Obama team, national security people from both administrations have a decidedly different conclusion than you.  But I get it, you read a lot of articles on counterpunch, RT and Sputnik.  They only see classified information.  You're a leninist.  Bannon is a leninst.  They aren't.  I'll go with them.  
    weak IMO.
    what's so classified for the NSA to say to the American public, (of by and for the people) we have evidence that Putin, Russian state actors seemed to influence our elections by hacking the DNC. Instead they say, our level of confidence doesn't rise......because of the reliance on foreign intelligence.

    here is a good summary, I encourage everyone to read it and draw your own conclusions. To me the most important point is the NSA ability to track packets of information exchanged. 

    http://bigleaguepolitics.com/walls-closing-russiagate-conspiracy-theorists-evidence-mounts-dnc-emails-provided-wikileaks-inside-source/
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 8,205
    Meanwhile, Manafort's soon to be ex son-in-law has voluntarily turned over documents to congressional committee investigators, who in turn have handed them over to Mueller's investigative team. Hell hath no fury like a son-in-law scorned. Hmmmmm, wonder why the FBI conducted a no knock raid on Manafort's home and holy Guamamole bat man, the meeting at Trump Tower wasn't previously known, so much for Obsma's surveillance of Trump Tower conspiracy theories, and the FBI raid was just reported upon despite happening in July. So much for the witch hunt "leaks." GHWB and Darth Cheney are laughing at the ameuratureness of it all. Jared dear boy, remember him?, has dropped completely out of sight, despite his high profile role in the administration and responsibility to reinvent government, apparently having turned personnel matters over from the Office of Personnel Management and the State Department's Human Resources department over to the Kremlin, resulting in Trump praising Moscow for staffing cuts and budget savings. PTAPE 755.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

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  • mfc2006mfc2006 PDX--->KCPosts: 29,747
    But wait....I thought this was going away??

    Its definitely going to hit the fan. And it will spray all over Donald Dump.
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  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 7,769
    here is a statement from the dnc to the nation about their article on the leak vs hack findings.

    Editor’s note: After publication, the Democratic National Committee contacted The Nation with a response, writing, “U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded the Russian government hacked the DNC in an attempt to interfere in the election. Any suggestion otherwise is false and is just another conspiracy theory like those pushed by Trump and his administration. It’s unfortunate that The Nation has decided to join the conspiracy theorists to push this narrative.

    why does the dnc feel it necessary to respond to a conspiracy theory?
    if you're going to address a conspiracy theory narrative pushed by the nation at least address the conspiracy raised?

    the only thing their response tells me is what I already know, the dnc was hacked as concluded by US Intel, as if the leak of dnc emails and hack or attempted hacks could not have both occurred.

    question still remains, was the dnc data downloaded to a drive locally or uploaded via the internet?

    I don't recall them responding to any articles about them not having to be neutral to primary candidates per their arguments against dnc donors lawsuit.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • dignindignin Posts: 5,028

    Mueller Is Said to Seek Interviews With West Wing in Russia Case



    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/12/us/politics/mueller-trump-russia-priebus.html?_r=0&referer=https://t.co/HobKSpcoVB?amp=1

    Going away any day now.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 8,205
    dignin said:

    Mueller Is Said to Seek Interviews With West Wing in Russia Case



    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/12/us/politics/mueller-trump-russia-priebus.html?_r=0&referer=https://t.co/HobKSpcoVB?amp=1

    Going away any day now.
    Bingo! No wonder the flurry of 3D activity. Follow the money from Russia with love and a PTAPE, all the way to impeachment. Me thinks there was in fact collusion between Trump campaign operatives, RNC and Russia, Russia, Russia.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

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  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 7,769
    JC29856 said:
    here is a statement from the dnc to the nation about their article on the leak vs hack findings.

    Editor’s note: After publication, the Democratic National Committee contacted The Nation with a response, writing, “U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded the Russian government hacked the DNC in an attempt to interfere in the election. Any suggestion otherwise is false and is just another conspiracy theory like those pushed by Trump and his administration. It’s unfortunate that The Nation has decided to join the conspiracy theorists to push this narrative.

    why does the dnc feel it necessary to respond to a conspiracy theory?
    if you're going to address a conspiracy theory narrative pushed by the nation at least address the conspiracy raised?

    the only thing their response tells me is what I already know, the dnc was hacked as concluded by US Intel, as if the leak of dnc emails and hack or attempted hacks could not have both occurred.

    question still remains, was the dnc data downloaded to a drive locally or uploaded via the internet?

    I don't recall them responding to any articles about them not having to be neutral to primary candidates per their arguments against dnc donors lawsuit.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/


    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 8,205
    JC29856 said:
    JC29856 said:
    here is a statement from the dnc to the nation about their article on the leak vs hack findings.

    Editor’s note: After publication, the Democratic National Committee contacted The Nation with a response, writing, “U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded the Russian government hacked the DNC in an attempt to interfere in the election. Any suggestion otherwise is false and is just another conspiracy theory like those pushed by Trump and his administration. It’s unfortunate that The Nation has decided to join the conspiracy theorists to push this narrative.

    why does the dnc feel it necessary to respond to a conspiracy theory?
    if you're going to address a conspiracy theory narrative pushed by the nation at least address the conspiracy raised?

    the only thing their response tells me is what I already know, the dnc was hacked as concluded by US Intel, as if the leak of dnc emails and hack or attempted hacks could not have both occurred.

    question still remains, was the dnc data downloaded to a drive locally or uploaded via the internet?

    I don't recall them responding to any articles about them not having to be neutral to primary candidates per their arguments against dnc donors lawsuit.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/


    No, that gives credence to the conspiracy theory. Are you in public relations? 
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 8,205
    JC29856 said:
    JC29856 said:
    here is a statement from the dnc to the nation about their article on the leak vs hack findings.

    Editor’s note: After publication, the Democratic National Committee contacted The Nation with a response, writing, “U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded the Russian government hacked the DNC in an attempt to interfere in the election. Any suggestion otherwise is false and is just another conspiracy theory like those pushed by Trump and his administration. It’s unfortunate that The Nation has decided to join the conspiracy theorists to push this narrative.

    why does the dnc feel it necessary to respond to a conspiracy theory?
    if you're going to address a conspiracy theory narrative pushed by the nation at least address the conspiracy raised?

    the only thing their response tells me is what I already know, the dnc was hacked as concluded by US Intel, as if the leak of dnc emails and hack or attempted hacks could not have both occurred.

    question still remains, was the dnc data downloaded to a drive locally or uploaded via the internet?

    I don't recall them responding to any articles about them not having to be neutral to primary candidates per their arguments against dnc donors lawsuit.

    https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/


    No, that gives credence to the conspiracy theory. Are you in public relations? 
    Nice blurring of lines there as well. Conjuring up Comet Pizza and podesta emails again, I see. Are you into spin?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

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  • dignindignin Posts: 5,028
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 7,769
    more proof of Trump Putin collusion
    Were the Russians seeking out low level aides as a disuse for Trump Putin collusion or did Trump set up the 28 yr old DePaul grad to take the fall?
    Manafort at least cleared this hurdle by twice rejecting the offer.

    "To experts in Russian intelligence gathering, the Papadopoulos chain offers further evidence that Russians were looking for entry points and playing upon connections with lower-level aides to penetrate the 2016 campaign."
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 8,205
    edited August 15
    JC29856 said:
    more proof of Trump Putin collusion
    Were the Russians seeking out low level aides as a disuse for Trump Putin collusion or did Trump set up the 28 yr old DePaul grad to take the fall?
    Manafort at least cleared this hurdle by twice rejecting the offer.

    "To experts in Russian intelligence gathering, the Papadopoulos chain offers further evidence that Russians were looking for entry points and playing upon connections with lower-level aides to penetrate the 2016 campaign."
    Did Manafort "clear the hurdle?" Manafort had his home raided by the FBI. Seems more likely that he stumbled and face planted.

    Donny Jr. was a lower level aide? Who knew but it sounds about right.

    What do you think? Was it "proof of Trump/Putin collusion or a set up by Trump of a 28 year old DePaul grad?" Not an alt-stupid question.

    Follow the money, from Russia with love and a PTAPE, all the way to impeachment. 755.
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

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  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 7,769
    JC29856 said:
    more proof of Trump Putin collusion
    Were the Russians seeking out low level aides as a disuse for Trump Putin collusion or did Trump set up the 28 yr old DePaul grad to take the fall?
    Manafort at least cleared this hurdle by twice rejecting the offer.

    "To experts in Russian intelligence gathering, the Papadopoulos chain offers further evidence that Russians were looking for entry points and playing upon connections with lower-level aides to penetrate the 2016 campaign."
    Did Manafort "clear the hurdle?" Manafort had his home raided by the FBI. Seems more likely that he stumbled and face planted.

    Donny Jr. was a lower level aide? Who knew but it sounds about right.

    What do you think? Was it "proof of Trump/Putin collusion or a set up by Trump of a 28 year old DePaul grad?" Not an alt-stupid question.

    Follow the money, from Russia with love and a PTAPE, all the way to impeachment. 755.
    now I feel dirty
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 8,205
    JC29856 said:
    JC29856 said:
    more proof of Trump Putin collusion
    Were the Russians seeking out low level aides as a disuse for Trump Putin collusion or did Trump set up the 28 yr old DePaul grad to take the fall?
    Manafort at least cleared this hurdle by twice rejecting the offer.

    "To experts in Russian intelligence gathering, the Papadopoulos chain offers further evidence that Russians were looking for entry points and playing upon connections with lower-level aides to penetrate the 2016 campaign."
    Did Manafort "clear the hurdle?" Manafort had his home raided by the FBI. Seems more likely that he stumbled and face planted.

    Donny Jr. was a lower level aide? Who knew but it sounds about right.

    What do you think? Was it "proof of Trump/Putin collusion or a set up by Trump of a 28 year old DePaul grad?" Not an alt-stupid question.

    Follow the money, from Russia with love and a PTAPE, all the way to impeachment. 755.
    now I feel dirty
    You should.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 7,367
    Identity politics are a loser long term.  The Progressives would do well to create a vision for all of America.  
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 7,769
    edited August 15
    more traction, slowly the cornerstone of the democratic pillar RRR is being chipped away

    http://www.salon.com/2017/08/15/what-if-the-dnc-russian-hack-was-really-a-leak-after-all-a-new-report-raises-questions-media-and-democrats-would-rather-ignore/

    What if the DNC Russian “hack” was really a leak after all? A new report raises questions media and Democrats would rather ignore

    A group of intelligence pros and forensic investigators tell The Nation there was no hack— the media ignores it

    If all this is true, these findings would constitute a massive embarrassment for not only the DNC itself but the media, which has breathlessly pushed the Russian hacking narrative for an entire year, almost without question but with little solid evidence to back it up.

    You could easily be forgiven for not having heard about this latest development — because, perhaps to avoid potential embarrassment, the media has completely ignored it. Instead, to this point only a few right-wing sites have seen fit to publish follow-ups.




    Post edited by JC29856 on
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 7,367
    Wait three more days and post the exact same thing once again.  
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 8,205
    JC29856 said:
    more traction, slowly the cornerstone of the democratic pillar RRR is being chipped away

    http://www.salon.com/2017/08/15/what-if-the-dnc-russian-hack-was-really-a-leak-after-all-a-new-report-raises-questions-media-and-democrats-would-rather-ignore/

    What if the DNC Russian “hack” was really a leak after all? A new report raises questions media and Democrats would rather ignore

    A group of intelligence pros and forensic investigators tell The Nation there was no hack— the media ignores it

    If all this is true, these findings would constitute a massive embarrassment for not only the DNC itself but the media, which has breathlessly pushed the Russian hacking narrative for an entire year, almost without question but with little solid evidence to back it up.

    You could easily be forgiven for not having heard about this latest development — because, perhaps to avoid potential embarrassment, the media has completely ignored it. Instead, to this point only a few right-wing sites have seen fit to publish follow-ups.




    What "group of intelligence pros" and "forensics investigators?" Not an alt-stupid question.
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  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 2,704
    JC29856 said:
    more traction, slowly the cornerstone of the democratic pillar RRR is being chipped away

    http://www.salon.com/2017/08/15/what-if-the-dnc-russian-hack-was-really-a-leak-after-all-a-new-report-raises-questions-media-and-democrats-would-rather-ignore/

    What if the DNC Russian “hack” was really a leak after all? A new report raises questions media and Democrats would rather ignore

    A group of intelligence pros and forensic investigators tell The Nation there was no hack— the media ignores it

    If all this is true, these findings would constitute a massive embarrassment for not only the DNC itself but the media, which has breathlessly pushed the Russian hacking narrative for an entire year, almost without question but with little solid evidence to back it up.

    You could easily be forgiven for not having heard about this latest development — because, perhaps to avoid potential embarrassment, the media has completely ignored it. Instead, to this point only a few right-wing sites have seen fit to publish follow-ups.




    Democratic National Committee contacted The Nation with a response, writing, “U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded the Russian government hacked the DNC in an attempt to interfere in the election. Any suggestion otherwise is false and is just another conspiracy theory like those pushed by Trump and his administration. It’s unfortunate that The Nation has decided to join the conspiracy theorists to push this narrative.”

    Who is this mysterious Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)? What gives them any credibility?

    I will rely on the current intelligent communities analysis, rather than some washed up old retiree desperate for attention.
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 8,205
    CM189191 said:
    JC29856 said:
    more traction, slowly the cornerstone of the democratic pillar RRR is being chipped away

    http://www.salon.com/2017/08/15/what-if-the-dnc-russian-hack-was-really-a-leak-after-all-a-new-report-raises-questions-media-and-democrats-would-rather-ignore/

    What if the DNC Russian “hack” was really a leak after all? A new report raises questions media and Democrats would rather ignore

    A group of intelligence pros and forensic investigators tell The Nation there was no hack— the media ignores it

    If all this is true, these findings would constitute a massive embarrassment for not only the DNC itself but the media, which has breathlessly pushed the Russian hacking narrative for an entire year, almost without question but with little solid evidence to back it up.

    You could easily be forgiven for not having heard about this latest development — because, perhaps to avoid potential embarrassment, the media has completely ignored it. Instead, to this point only a few right-wing sites have seen fit to publish follow-ups.




    Democratic National Committee contacted The Nation with a response, writing, “U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded the Russian government hacked the DNC in an attempt to interfere in the election. Any suggestion otherwise is false and is just another conspiracy theory like those pushed by Trump and his administration. It’s unfortunate that The Nation has decided to join the conspiracy theorists to push this narrative.”

    Who is this mysterious Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)? What gives them any credibility?

    I will rely on the current intelligent communities analysis, rather than some washed up old retiree desperate for attention.
    I wonder if Trump will release their Election Day voting so we can see who they voted for? I also wonder whose campaign they contributed to. Might also want to see if they've done any think tank or consulting work.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

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  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 7,769
    The truth has set another free

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/special-counsels-russia-probe-loses-top-fbi-investigator/story?id=49249486

    One of the FBI's top investigators, tapped by special counsel Robert Mueller just weeks ago to help lead the probe of Russian meddling in last year's presidential election, has left Mueller’s team, sources tell ABC News.

    The recent departure of FBI veteran Peter Strzok is the first known hitch in a secretive probe that by all public accounts is charging full-steam ahead. Just last week, news surfaced that Mueller's team had executed a search warrant at the Virginia home of Donald Trump’s former campaign manager, Paul Manafort. And the week before that ABC News confirmed Mueller is now using a federal grand jury in Washington, D.C., to collect documents and other evidence.

    It's unclear why Strzok stepped away from Mueller's team of nearly two dozen lawyers, investigators and administrative staff. Strzok, who has spent much of his law enforcement career working counterintelligence cases and has been unanimously praised by government officials who spoke with ABC News, is now working for the FBI's human resources division.

    He is no stranger to complex and controversial investigations.

    As chief of the FBI's counterespionage section last year, he helped oversee the FBI's investigation into Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server, and he took part in the FBI interview of the Democratic presidential candidate.

    Within weeks of the Clinton probe ending, Strzok found his office facing a new challenge: investigating Russia's alleged efforts to influence last year’s presidential election, including a cyberattack on the Democratic National Committee.

    A spokesman for the special counsel's office declined to comment.


    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 8,205
    JC29856 said:
    The truth has set another free

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/special-counsels-russia-probe-loses-top-fbi-investigator/story?id=49249486

    One of the FBI's top investigators, tapped by special counsel Robert Mueller just weeks ago to help lead the probe of Russian meddling in last year's presidential election, has left Mueller’s team, sources tell ABC News.

    The recent departure of FBI veteran Peter Strzok is the first known hitch in a secretive probe that by all public accounts is charging full-steam ahead. Just last week, news surfaced that Mueller's team had executed a search warrant at the Virginia home of Donald Trump’s former campaign manager, Paul Manafort. And the week before that ABC News confirmed Mueller is now using a federal grand jury in Washington, D.C., to collect documents and other evidence.

    It's unclear why Strzok stepped away from Mueller's team of nearly two dozen lawyers, investigators and administrative staff. Strzok, who has spent much of his law enforcement career working counterintelligence cases and has been unanimously praised by government officials who spoke with ABC News, is now working for the FBI's human resources division.

    He is no stranger to complex and controversial investigations.

    As chief of the FBI's counterespionage section last year, he helped oversee the FBI's investigation into Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server, and he took part in the FBI interview of the Democratic presidential candidate.

    Within weeks of the Clinton probe ending, Strzok found his office facing a new challenge: investigating Russia's alleged efforts to influence last year’s presidential election, including a cyberattack on the Democratic National Committee.

    A spokesman for the special counsel's office declined to comment.


    Ooooooooooooo, Trump's innocent. Maybe he's a pussy grabber? Maybe 3D is working hard for the dollar.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 7,367
    People who defend Trump after this point, or try create moral equivalence are morally corrupt.  The sides have been clearly drawn and it's not D vs. R.  
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 3,717
    mrussel1 said:
    People who defend Trump after this point, or try create moral equivalence are morally corrupt.  The sides have been clearly drawn and it's not D vs. R.  
    If you support evil and ignorance
    You are evil and ignorant
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 5,448
    mrussel1 said:
    People who defend Trump after this point, or try create moral equivalence are morally corrupt.  The sides have been clearly drawn and it's not D vs. R.  
    Exactly right. It is not D vs R. Here are some R's who have put themselves on the right side of this issue. There are many more, but this is a good sampling. It doesn't mean that these people are now the "good guys" but at least they have a modicum of morality and civility:

    "We must be clear. White supremacy is repulsive. This bigotry is counter to all this country stands for. There can be no moral ambiguity." Paul Ryan

    "We cannot accept excuses for white supremacy and acts of domestic terrorism. We must condemn them. Period." Jeff Flake

    "There's no moral equivalency between racists & Americans standing up to defy hate& bigotry. The President of the United States should say so." John McCain

    "This is simple: we must condemn and marginalize white supremacist groups, not encourage and embolden them." Todd Young

    "We should never hesitate to call out hate. Whenever and wherever we see it." Orin Hatch

    "Racism, bigotry, anti-Semitism of any form is unacceptable and the leaders of the free world should be unambiguous about that." Will Hurd

    "Blaming "both sides" for #Charlottesville?! No. Back to relativism when dealing with KKK, Nazi sympathizers, white supremacists? Just no." Ileana Ros-Lehtinen

    "The organizers of events which inspired & led to #charlottesvilleterroristattack are 100% to blame for a number of reasons. We can not allow this old evil to be resurrected." Marco Rubio

    "No, not the same. One side is racist, bigoted, Nazi. The other opposes racism and bigotry. Morally different universes." Mitt Romney

    "America must always reject racial bigotry, anti-Semitism, and hatred in all forms. As we pray for Charlottesville, we are reminded of the fundamental truths recorded by that city's most prominent citizen in the Declaration of Independence: we are all created equal and endowed by our Creator with unalienable rights. We know these truths to be everlasting because we have seen the decency and greatness of our country." Joint Statement from G.H.W. & G.W. Bush
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 7,367
    Great list... I especially appreciate Mitt's statements.  
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 7,769
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • mfc2006mfc2006 PDX--->KCPosts: 29,747
    Thought this went away? Hmm...
    I LOVE MUSIC.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 8,205
    JC29856 said:

    Fixed that for you. An FBI interviewed witness, provide testimony in exchange for witness protection in the country of your choosing, after a new identity, inclusive of plastic surgery, of course. Hmmmmm, Manafort, Ukraine, practice makes perfect, news sites with pre-prepared stories as soon as emails are published? It all sounds and is familiar.


    Follow the money, from Russia with love and a PTAPE, all the way to impeachment. 755 +1.



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  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 7,769
    ut-oh him again!!

    http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/346904-assange-meets-us-congressman-vows-to-prove-russia-did-not-leak-him

    Julian Assange told a U.S. congressman on Tuesday he can prove the leaked Democratic Party documents he published during last year's election did not come from Russia and promised additional helpful information about the leaks in the near future.

    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
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