I know but I really want to hear a response why conversion therapy is destructive first.
take the flip-side of it. let's say people wanted you to go to gay conversion therapy, as being heterosexual is unnatural. do you not think that therapy to undo something that is instinct/natural can be destructive to that person?
love is love.
Flight Risk out NOW!
www.headstonesband.com
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I know but I really want to hear a response why conversion therapy is destructive first.
Not sure if you're shit-stirring, but I'll humor what I see as an inane question.
Imagine if you were told who you are is "wrong". And then thrust into an environment that insists you should be different from that person you know you are, and uses various means to guide you to someone you're not.
It's a violation of soul and spirit, and really, just fucking ridiculous. And no one's business.
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
so then learn to use the quote function instead of the stupid arrows. both myself and @hedonist answered why it was destructive. if you are asking someone else, quote them.
Flight Risk out NOW!
www.headstonesband.com
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me.
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
so then learn to use the quote function instead of the stupid arrows. both myself and @hedonist answered why it was destructive. if you are asking someone else, quote them.
Also....in case it has not been pointed out on here.....IT DOESN'T WORK
I'll post the link again. Click. Read. Even in the link you can see it says, "The lies and dangers of reparative therapy." Sounds kind of destructive to me.
See my comment about what it's like at Broadway plays.
I saw it. Just because someone can do something it doesn't mean they always should. Like I said...it's the cast's right but it's self defeating and it makes them look small.
Like I said...again...they have the right to do it but it makes them look small and it's self defeating. It does no damage to Pence in any way no matter what you think of him. If anything some people like Van Zandt who don't support him will actually become sympathetic.
Pence supports conversion therapy for gays, which is destructive.
Why do you feel it's destructive?
um, seriously?
Yes I am serious and would like to hear GoBeavers response.
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
^^^ I realize it is like religion. Yet there are people who look to it and there is no changing their mind. So if a govt can provide w/ out prejudice services to all who feel that way and keep church and state separate they are doing their job.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
Equal access for what? Why would someone who is gay or bi or straight seek out changing who they are? Outside influences aside.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
Equal access for what? Why would someone who is gay or bi or straight seek out changing who they are? Outside influences aside.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
I'm with you Hedo and I don't mean to defend Pence or PJFan on this because I personally think conversion therapy is insane but I'm not sure the funds Pence voted to make available for conversion therapy was for "forced" treatment. So even if what we think is stupid in concept the intention of the funding was for those individuals who might want to change who they are to get help. Do those people even exist? I am not sure. In my own life I have a cousin on my wife's side who came out in her 20's...married another woman in with a similar story...they had kids....and 10 years later the other woman decided she was straight again. Also she insists that she is not and was not bisexual from her perspective. It is all completely live and let live but I guess the point is that the tracks some people take are not always in one direction when it comes to sexuality. Again I don't think conversion therapy has any place in the equation but in some ways the science with respect to sexuality is not completely settled for all cases. I mean this woman insisted she was born gay for the longest time and then later in life insisted she was straight. In the end she should be what makes her happy but it is interesting how it differs from the usual pattern. So to bring it back is sometimes therapy of some kind can be useful to people who are questioning themselves and funding might be less offensive if the "conversion" aspect was taken out of it. The therapist should help someone discover who they are but should never try to make someone be who they aren't.
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
Equal access for what? Why would someone who is gay or bi or straight seek out changing who they are? Outside influences aside.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
I'm with you Hedo and I don't mean to defend Pence or PJFan on this because I personally think conversion therapy is insane but I'm not sure the funds Pence voted to make available for conversion therapy was for "forced" treatment. So even if what we think is stupid in concept the intention of the funding was for those individuals who might want to change who they are to get help. Do those people even exist? I am not sure. In my own life I have a cousin on my wife's side who came out in her 20's...married another woman in with a similar story...they had kids....and 10 years later the other woman decided she was straight again. Also she insists that she is not and was not bisexual from her perspective. It is all completely live and let live but I guess the point is that the tracks some people take are not always in one direction when it comes to sexuality. Again I don't think conversion therapy has any place in the equation but in some ways the science with respect to sexuality is not completely settled for all cases. I mean this woman insisted she was born gay for the longest time and then later in life insisted she was straight. In the end she should be what makes her happy but it is interesting how it differs from the usual pattern. So to bring it back is sometimes therapy of some kind can be useful to people who are questioning themselves and funding might be less offensive if the "conversion" aspect was taken out of it. The therapist should help someone discover who they are but should never try to make someone be who they aren't.
Sometimes when you fall in love with someone, it doesn't matter what sex they are. Love is blind. Don't judge.
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
Equal access for what? Why would someone who is gay or bi or straight seek out changing who they are? Outside influences aside.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
I'm with you Hedo and I don't mean to defend Pence or PJFan on this because I personally think conversion therapy is insane but I'm not sure the funds Pence voted to make available for conversion therapy was for "forced" treatment. So even if what we think is stupid in concept the intention of the funding was for those individuals who might want to change who they are to get help. Do those people even exist? I am not sure. In my own life I have a cousin on my wife's side who came out in her 20's...married another woman in with a similar story...they had kids....and 10 years later the other woman decided she was straight again. Also she insists that she is not and was not bisexual from her perspective. It is all completely live and let live but I guess the point is that the tracks some people take are not always in one direction when it comes to sexuality. Again I don't think conversion therapy has any place in the equation but in some ways the science with respect to sexuality is not completely settled for all cases. I mean this woman insisted she was born gay for the longest time and then later in life insisted she was straight. In the end she should be what makes her happy but it is interesting how it differs from the usual pattern. So to bring it back is sometimes therapy of some kind can be useful to people who are questioning themselves and funding might be less offensive if the "conversion" aspect was taken out of it. The therapist should help someone discover who they are but should never try to make someone be who they aren't.
Sometimes when you fall in love with someone, it doesn't matter what sex they are. Love is blind. Don't judge.
I don't think BS is judging here.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
Equal access for what? Why would someone who is gay or bi or straight seek out changing who they are? Outside influences aside.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
I'm with you Hedo and I don't mean to defend Pence or PJFan on this because I personally think conversion therapy is insane but I'm not sure the funds Pence voted to make available for conversion therapy was for "forced" treatment. So even if what we think is stupid in concept the intention of the funding was for those individuals who might want to change who they are to get help. Do those people even exist? I am not sure. In my own life I have a cousin on my wife's side who came out in her 20's...married another woman in with a similar story...they had kids....and 10 years later the other woman decided she was straight again. Also she insists that she is not and was not bisexual from her perspective. It is all completely live and let live but I guess the point is that the tracks some people take are not always in one direction when it comes to sexuality. Again I don't think conversion therapy has any place in the equation but in some ways the science with respect to sexuality is not completely settled for all cases. I mean this woman insisted she was born gay for the longest time and then later in life insisted she was straight. In the end she should be what makes her happy but it is interesting how it differs from the usual pattern. So to bring it back is sometimes therapy of some kind can be useful to people who are questioning themselves and funding might be less offensive if the "conversion" aspect was taken out of it. The therapist should help someone discover who they are but should never try to make someone be who they aren't.
The bolded part caught my attention - thank you for that. I'll need to process it all a bit more, but at the moment, I can't help thinking that it's kind of fucked up that anyone should need professional help to find or just BE themselves beyond the general path(s) of life. You love who you love, you are who you are. Who else, but yourself, needs to be answered to?
Some will need that help due to the assholes of this world, just wish it weren't that way (says my idealist self).
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
Equal access for what? Why would someone who is gay or bi or straight seek out changing who they are? Outside influences aside.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
I'm with you Hedo and I don't mean to defend Pence or PJFan on this because I personally think conversion therapy is insane but I'm not sure the funds Pence voted to make available for conversion therapy was for "forced" treatment. So even if what we think is stupid in concept the intention of the funding was for those individuals who might want to change who they are to get help. Do those people even exist? I am not sure. In my own life I have a cousin on my wife's side who came out in her 20's...married another woman in with a similar story...they had kids....and 10 years later the other woman decided she was straight again. Also she insists that she is not and was not bisexual from her perspective. It is all completely live and let live but I guess the point is that the tracks some people take are not always in one direction when it comes to sexuality. Again I don't think conversion therapy has any place in the equation but in some ways the science with respect to sexuality is not completely settled for all cases. I mean this woman insisted she was born gay for the longest time and then later in life insisted she was straight. In the end she should be what makes her happy but it is interesting how it differs from the usual pattern. So to bring it back is sometimes therapy of some kind can be useful to people who are questioning themselves and funding might be less offensive if the "conversion" aspect was taken out of it. The therapist should help someone discover who they are but should never try to make someone be who they aren't.
Sometimes when you fall in love with someone, it doesn't matter what sex they are. Love is blind. Don't judge.
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
Equal access for what? Why would someone who is gay or bi or straight seek out changing who they are? Outside influences aside.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
I'm with you Hedo and I don't mean to defend Pence or PJFan on this because I personally think conversion therapy is insane but I'm not sure the funds Pence voted to make available for conversion therapy was for "forced" treatment. So even if what we think is stupid in concept the intention of the funding was for those individuals who might want to change who they are to get help. Do those people even exist? I am not sure. In my own life I have a cousin on my wife's side who came out in her 20's...married another woman in with a similar story...they had kids....and 10 years later the other woman decided she was straight again. Also she insists that she is not and was not bisexual from her perspective. It is all completely live and let live but I guess the point is that the tracks some people take are not always in one direction when it comes to sexuality. Again I don't think conversion therapy has any place in the equation but in some ways the science with respect to sexuality is not completely settled for all cases. I mean this woman insisted she was born gay for the longest time and then later in life insisted she was straight. In the end she should be what makes her happy but it is interesting how it differs from the usual pattern. So to bring it back is sometimes therapy of some kind can be useful to people who are questioning themselves and funding might be less offensive if the "conversion" aspect was taken out of it. The therapist should help someone discover who they are but should never try to make someone be who they aren't.
The bolded part caught my attention - thank you for that. I'll need to process it all a bit more, but at the moment, I can't help thinking that it's kind of fucked up that anyone should need professional help to find or just BE themselves beyond the general path(s) of life. You love who you love, you are who you are. Who else, but yourself, needs to be answered to?
Some will need that help due to the assholes of this world, just wish it weren't that way (says my idealist self).
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
Equal access for what? Why would someone who is gay or bi or straight seek out changing who they are? Outside influences aside.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
I'm with you Hedo and I don't mean to defend Pence or PJFan on this because I personally think conversion therapy is insane but I'm not sure the funds Pence voted to make available for conversion therapy was for "forced" treatment. So even if what we think is stupid in concept the intention of the funding was for those individuals who might want to change who they are to get help. Do those people even exist? I am not sure. In my own life I have a cousin on my wife's side who came out in her 20's...married another woman in with a similar story...they had kids....and 10 years later the other woman decided she was straight again. Also she insists that she is not and was not bisexual from her perspective. It is all completely live and let live but I guess the point is that the tracks some people take are not always in one direction when it comes to sexuality. Again I don't think conversion therapy has any place in the equation but in some ways the science with respect to sexuality is not completely settled for all cases. I mean this woman insisted she was born gay for the longest time and then later in life insisted she was straight. In the end she should be what makes her happy but it is interesting how it differs from the usual pattern. So to bring it back is sometimes therapy of some kind can be useful to people who are questioning themselves and funding might be less offensive if the "conversion" aspect was taken out of it. The therapist should help someone discover who they are but should never try to make someone be who they aren't.
The bolded part caught my attention - thank you for that. I'll need to process it all a bit more, but at the moment, I can't help thinking that it's kind of fucked up that anyone should need professional help to find or just BE themselves beyond the general path(s) of life. You love who you love, you are who you are. Who else, but yourself, needs to be answered to?
Some will need that help due to the assholes of this world, just wish it weren't that way (says my idealist self).
Life can bring many unexpected events or experiences that make us question what we thought we knew about ourselves. Sometimes a neutral professional can be very helpful in figuring that out. I don't find that fucked up at all. We all need help in life at one point or another.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
This is set to expire, I wonder if it will get extended?
The tax law change, part of a bill that President Obama is expected to sign, would provide an incentive for investors in live theatrical productions by accelerating deductions and by ending the practice of requiring them to pay income tax on what producers call “phantom profits,” which is money returned to investors that is less than the amount they had initially invested. Investment in theater is highly risky — most Broadway shows fail financially — so the industry wants to make it as attractive as possible.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
Equal access for what? Why would someone who is gay or bi or straight seek out changing who they are? Outside influences aside.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
I'm with you Hedo and I don't mean to defend Pence or PJFan on this because I personally think conversion therapy is insane but I'm not sure the funds Pence voted to make available for conversion therapy was for "forced" treatment. So even if what we think is stupid in concept the intention of the funding was for those individuals who might want to change who they are to get help. Do those people even exist? I am not sure. In my own life I have a cousin on my wife's side who came out in her 20's...married another woman in with a similar story...they had kids....and 10 years later the other woman decided she was straight again. Also she insists that she is not and was not bisexual from her perspective. It is all completely live and let live but I guess the point is that the tracks some people take are not always in one direction when it comes to sexuality. Again I don't think conversion therapy has any place in the equation but in some ways the science with respect to sexuality is not completely settled for all cases. I mean this woman insisted she was born gay for the longest time and then later in life insisted she was straight. In the end she should be what makes her happy but it is interesting how it differs from the usual pattern. So to bring it back is sometimes therapy of some kind can be useful to people who are questioning themselves and funding might be less offensive if the "conversion" aspect was taken out of it. The therapist should help someone discover who they are but should never try to make someone be who they aren't.
The bolded part caught my attention - thank you for that. I'll need to process it all a bit more, but at the moment, I can't help thinking that it's kind of fucked up that anyone should need professional help to find or just BE themselves beyond the general path(s) of life. You love who you love, you are who you are. Who else, but yourself, needs to be answered to?
Some will need that help due to the assholes of this world, just wish it weren't that way (says my idealist self).
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
Equal access for what? Why would someone who is gay or bi or straight seek out changing who they are? Outside influences aside.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
I'm with you Hedo and I don't mean to defend Pence or PJFan on this because I personally think conversion therapy is insane but I'm not sure the funds Pence voted to make available for conversion therapy was for "forced" treatment. So even if what we think is stupid in concept the intention of the funding was for those individuals who might want to change who they are to get help. Do those people even exist? I am not sure. In my own life I have a cousin on my wife's side who came out in her 20's...married another woman in with a similar story...they had kids....and 10 years later the other woman decided she was straight again. Also she insists that she is not and was not bisexual from her perspective. It is all completely live and let live but I guess the point is that the tracks some people take are not always in one direction when it comes to sexuality. Again I don't think conversion therapy has any place in the equation but in some ways the science with respect to sexuality is not completely settled for all cases. I mean this woman insisted she was born gay for the longest time and then later in life insisted she was straight. In the end she should be what makes her happy but it is interesting how it differs from the usual pattern. So to bring it back is sometimes therapy of some kind can be useful to people who are questioning themselves and funding might be less offensive if the "conversion" aspect was taken out of it. The therapist should help someone discover who they are but should never try to make someone be who they aren't.
The bolded part caught my attention - thank you for that. I'll need to process it all a bit more, but at the moment, I can't help thinking that it's kind of fucked up that anyone should need professional help to find or just BE themselves beyond the general path(s) of life. You love who you love, you are who you are. Who else, but yourself, needs to be answered to?
Some will need that help due to the assholes of this world, just wish it weren't that way (says my idealist self).
Life can bring many unexpected events or experiences that make us question what we thought we knew about ourselves. Sometimes a neutral professional can be very helpful in figuring that out. I don't find that fucked up at all. We all need help in life at one point or another.
I do get that, often...I've turned to the objective perspective (read: therapy) myself and it did help over time. That's not fucked up in itself, at all. I think maybe I'm focusing more on what takes us...well, what took me...to that point.
(sorry if the quotes are messed up; they were on preview, anyway)
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
Equal access for what? Why would someone who is gay or bi or straight seek out changing who they are? Outside influences aside.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
I'm with you Hedo and I don't mean to defend Pence or PJFan on this because I personally think conversion therapy is insane but I'm not sure the funds Pence voted to make available for conversion therapy was for "forced" treatment. So even if what we think is stupid in concept the intention of the funding was for those individuals who might want to change who they are to get help. Do those people even exist? I am not sure. In my own life I have a cousin on my wife's side who came out in her 20's...married another woman in with a similar story...they had kids....and 10 years later the other woman decided she was straight again. Also she insists that she is not and was not bisexual from her perspective. It is all completely live and let live but I guess the point is that the tracks some people take are not always in one direction when it comes to sexuality. Again I don't think conversion therapy has any place in the equation but in some ways the science with respect to sexuality is not completely settled for all cases. I mean this woman insisted she was born gay for the longest time and then later in life insisted she was straight. In the end she should be what makes her happy but it is interesting how it differs from the usual pattern. So to bring it back is sometimes therapy of some kind can be useful to people who are questioning themselves and funding might be less offensive if the "conversion" aspect was taken out of it. The therapist should help someone discover who they are but should never try to make someone be who they aren't.
The bolded part caught my attention - thank you for that. I'll need to process it all a bit more, but at the moment, I can't help thinking that it's kind of fucked up that anyone should need professional help to find or just BE themselves beyond the general path(s) of life. You love who you love, you are who you are. Who else, but yourself, needs to be answered to?
Some will need that help due to the assholes of this world, just wish it weren't that way (says my idealist self).
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
Equal access for what? Why would someone who is gay or bi or straight seek out changing who they are? Outside influences aside.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
I'm with you Hedo and I don't mean to defend Pence or PJFan on this because I personally think conversion therapy is insane but I'm not sure the funds Pence voted to make available for conversion therapy was for "forced" treatment. So even if what we think is stupid in concept the intention of the funding was for those individuals who might want to change who they are to get help. Do those people even exist? I am not sure. In my own life I have a cousin on my wife's side who came out in her 20's...married another woman in with a similar story...they had kids....and 10 years later the other woman decided she was straight again. Also she insists that she is not and was not bisexual from her perspective. It is all completely live and let live but I guess the point is that the tracks some people take are not always in one direction when it comes to sexuality. Again I don't think conversion therapy has any place in the equation but in some ways the science with respect to sexuality is not completely settled for all cases. I mean this woman insisted she was born gay for the longest time and then later in life insisted she was straight. In the end she should be what makes her happy but it is interesting how it differs from the usual pattern. So to bring it back is sometimes therapy of some kind can be useful to people who are questioning themselves and funding might be less offensive if the "conversion" aspect was taken out of it. The therapist should help someone discover who they are but should never try to make someone be who they aren't.
The bolded part caught my attention - thank you for that. I'll need to process it all a bit more, but at the moment, I can't help thinking that it's kind of fucked up that anyone should need professional help to find or just BE themselves beyond the general path(s) of life. You love who you love, you are who you are. Who else, but yourself, needs to be answered to?
Some will need that help due to the assholes of this world, just wish it weren't that way (says my idealist self).
Life can bring many unexpected events or experiences that make us question what we thought we knew about ourselves. Sometimes a neutral professional can be very helpful in figuring that out. I don't find that fucked up at all. We all need help in life at one point or another.
I do get that, often...I've turned to the objective perspective (read: therapy) myself and it did help over time. That's not fucked up in itself, at all. I think maybe I'm focusing more on what takes us...well, what took me...to that point.
(sorry if the quotes are messed up; they were on preview, anyway)
I think you're on point and I agree with you about the "assholes" in your previous statement as they often cloud the ability of those questioning themselves to come to terms with self identity honestly. It's why I find the "conversion" aspect distasteful because it is direction and not self-discovery but it doesn't mean that therapy on questions of identity is a bad thing as long as it's non-judgemental and doesn't have a predetermined outcome.
^^^ Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion. Why is it destructive?
Actually, this is an open forum. I thought we can all chime in? I think we all have at some point. Cool beans for me. To your question, asked and answered.
Ok. So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence. Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded. It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
Equal access for what? Why would someone who is gay or bi or straight seek out changing who they are? Outside influences aside.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
I'm with you Hedo and I don't mean to defend Pence or PJFan on this because I personally think conversion therapy is insane but I'm not sure the funds Pence voted to make available for conversion therapy was for "forced" treatment. So even if what we think is stupid in concept the intention of the funding was for those individuals who might want to change who they are to get help. Do those people even exist? I am not sure. In my own life I have a cousin on my wife's side who came out in her 20's...married another woman in with a similar story...they had kids....and 10 years later the other woman decided she was straight again. Also she insists that she is not and was not bisexual from her perspective. It is all completely live and let live but I guess the point is that the tracks some people take are not always in one direction when it comes to sexuality. Again I don't think conversion therapy has any place in the equation but in some ways the science with respect to sexuality is not completely settled for all cases. I mean this woman insisted she was born gay for the longest time and then later in life insisted she was straight. In the end she should be what makes her happy but it is interesting how it differs from the usual pattern. So to bring it back is sometimes therapy of some kind can be useful to people who are questioning themselves and funding might be less offensive if the "conversion" aspect was taken out of it. The therapist should help someone discover who they are but should never try to make someone be who they aren't.
Sometimes when you fall in love with someone, it doesn't matter what sex they are. Love is blind. Don't judge.
I don't think BS is judging here.
Clearly not but we can't assume everyone on here has equal reading comprehension skills.
Pence on the Hamilton incident. I heard the speech, I heard the boos and cheers, I nudged my daughter and said, that's what freedom sounds like. Said it was a great show and recommended everyone (with a few grand laying around) to go see it.
Pence on the Hamilton incident. I heard the speech, I heard the boos and cheers, I nudged my daughter and said, that's what freedom sounds like. Said it was a great show and recommended everyone (with a few grand laying around) to go see it.
Comments
love is love.
www.headstonesband.com
Imagine if you were told who you are is "wrong". And then thrust into an environment that insists you should be different from that person you know you are, and uses various means to guide you to someone you're not.
It's a violation of soul and spirit, and really, just fucking ridiculous. And no one's business.
That, over everything else. No one's business.
Asking a question to one particular person and getting responses from another asking if I am shit-stirring is not conducive to furthering discussion.
Why is it destructive?
www.headstonesband.com
To your question, asked and answered.
http://www.hrc.org/resources/the-lies-and-dangers-of-reparative-therapy
nytimes.com/2016/11/19/us/mike-pence-hamilton.html
So if this Pence guy is for conversion therapy and wants to provide funds for it can this not be interpreted as a person who wants equal access for all. Are there not people out there who want to change their sexual preferences w/ out govt or public influence.
Would it not be a comforting feeling knowing that if you feel that way there is help? Unbiased and funded.
It is not destructive if a person choses to seek change from the opportunities presented.
www.headstonesband.com
I realize it is like religion.
Yet there are people who look to it and there is no changing their mind.
So if a govt can provide w/ out prejudice services to all who feel that way and keep church and state separate they are doing their job.
Not getting your attempted points. Mine is live and let live.
All people can live equally as long as the smallest person is allowed to grow.
When it rains they are last ones to get wet.
Some will need that help due to the assholes of this world, just wish it weren't that way (says my idealist self).
The tax law change, part of a bill that President Obama is expected to sign, would provide an incentive for investors in live theatrical productions by accelerating deductions and by ending the practice of requiring them to pay income tax on what producers call “phantom profits,” which is money returned to investors that is less than the amount they had initially invested. Investment in theater is highly risky — most Broadway shows fail financially — so the industry wants to make it as attractive as possible.
(sorry if the quotes are messed up; they were on preview, anyway)
I heard the speech, I heard the boos and cheers, I nudged my daughter and said, that's what freedom sounds like.
Said it was a great show and recommended everyone (with a few grand laying around) to go see it.
www.headstonesband.com