Dem Party

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  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 5,371
    So the two black guys you don't like should be like the black guy you do like?
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 10,766

    So the two black guys you don't like should be like the black guy you do like?

    :lol:
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    Heads in the Sand

    http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/12/06/heads-sand
    It seems that many Democrats are determined not to change, not to learn any lessons from the 2016 election. Instead of trying to figure out what went wrong, they are clinging to denial and self-righteousness. During the election, “I’m With Her” was used to silence internal opposition. Gung-ho Democrats dismissed the idea that liberals could have legitimate qualms about full throated support for Hillary because of her war-mongering, close relationship with Wall Street, and only passing concern for the economic struggles of large segments of the population.

    Progressives who were not entirely with her were told that they were sexist or were guilty of having internalized the attacks that the right had level against the Clintons over the years. Even when Hillary stumbled, the left rushed to her defense rather than acknowledge the establishment’s dangerous self-righteousness. And it is worth being clear, despite protests to the contrary that attempted to justify Hillary’s position, characterizing half of Trump supporters as “deplorables” who are “irredeemable” was and is the sort of holier-than-thou perspective that contributes to the sad state of the Democratic Party.

    Within the echo chamber of the coastal elites, a steady stream of Facebook posts deny the reality that Republicans won and won big in 2016. A steady diet of stories touts everything from Clinton’s numerical victory in the polls and the role of gerrymandering in this election to the rise in discrimination after the election and the possibility that the Electoral College might reject Trump on principle. What is missing is the recognition that the Democratic Party needs to change even if all these things are true.

    As the media has not tired of reporting, at a recent event, hosted not surprisingly at Harvard, the Clinton and Trump campaign managers got in a fight over whether Trump won because of racism or because of his message. It is easier for liberals to chalk up the stunning defeat in November to racism, sexism, zenophobia, and ignorance than it is to admit weaknesses in the Democratic Party and in the Party’s approach. Put differently, what does it say about the Democratic Party that Republicans, marching behind a transparently ridiculous and dangerous buffoon, were able to gain control over all branches of the national government and a majority of state governments? The head in the sand response is to attribute the election results to a victory by America’s deplorables, but a better response when one fails is to figure out what went wrong and try something new going forward.

    Democrats may not be able to change all parts of the American political landscape—the Republican party will likely continue to rely in part on race-baiting to win votes—but Democrats can be a more honest and less self-righteous about what went wrong. Establishment Democrats are trying desperately to turn attention away from the 2016 loss. The large orange-haired, instable elephant in the room undoubtedly represents a grave threat not only to the social safety net but also to the country itself. But unless Democrats present an alternative version of progress, it will be hard to fight against the “greatness” Trump is promising.

    Hillary’s basic campaign message—I’m better than him—was accurate but hardly inspiring.

    But even writing that risks the wrath of party hacks who pounce on anybody who does not stick to the party line. Just as conservatives who put the country above the Republican Party should already be acting to reign in Trump’s behavior and police his conflicts of interest, progressives should have been horrified by the Democratic Party’s favoritism during the primaries and the cheating—passing along questions to candidate Clinton before a debate—by the current interim chair of the Democratic National Committee during the campaign. The protest that these are false equivalents, that the Republicans are much worse, is only momentarily satisfying, for it cannot disguise the fact that the Democratic Party is in shambles.

    The Clinton era is over and hopefully so too is the strategy of triangulation. It is time for the Democratic Party to unapologetically return to those values—a commitment to economic and racial equality on the domestic front and to being a voice for peace not for war in foreign affairs—that were core values of the Party but that have gotten a bit tarnished with time. Egomaniacs tend either to believe that they are infallible or to blame their failures on others, but Democrats cannot afford—more importantly, the poor, the vulnerable, and the country cannot afford—to let the party elite’s self-righteousness prevent progressives from reflecting critically on the 2016 election and making necessary course corrections as far as the Democratic Party’s orientation.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,839
    "I'm with her" was the worst slogan of all time. As soon as Trump said "I'm with you" it was over.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 7,123
    I think a lot of people are far over estimating how liberal they believe the country is economically. Is Carter the last liberal president? Probably. But he got there by beating a sitting president that was not elected and was subsequently routed in 80. I find it ironic that some liberals are preaching to blow up the party due to the loss, but also bitching about the EC, considering HRC won almost 3 million more votes. Reagan beat Carter by 8.5 million votes. The Republican Party was left for dead 4 years ago. As usual, everyone is over reacting.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 10,766
    We're all ignoring the elephant in the room.

    Lincoln Chafee would have won.

    :wink:
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 10,766
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 7,123
    vaggar99 said:
    Because you are not a member of the House... or in her district, judging by your SD, CA marker...
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,839
    The Dems have bigger problems then they realize...

    Senator John Kennedy is a republican now

    http://www.nola.com/elections/index.ssf/2016/12/john_kennedy_louisianas_next_u.html
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 7,123
    BS44325 said:

    The Dems have bigger problems then they realize...

    Senator John Kennedy is a republican now

    http://www.nola.com/elections/index.ssf/2016/12/john_kennedy_louisianas_next_u.html

    LA politics are just strange... too much French influence. Same with their civil law procedures. That state is a real PITA.
  • Maybe the dems can chew on this and rebuild?
    Making it all worse for the Democrats is their ability to block these appointees is now almost nil. The Senate confirms cabinet-level choices and Republicans control the Senate with a 52-48 vote advantage this coming term, (53-48 when Vice President-elect Mike Pence's tie-breaking vote is accounted for).
    Even worse, the Democrats themselves eliminated almost every significant minority party filibuster tool when former Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid initiated the so-called "nuclear option" in 2013. Since that move, individual senators have only been able to seize the floor for marathon speeches opposing nominees. But once those speeches end, the majority can now confirm nominees without needing the once traditional minimum 60 votes. All of this is adding to a combination of liberal despair and vehement anger.


    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/09/trump-cabinet-picks-anger-democrats.html
  • It's been one month since the election. Systemic change does not happen in one month. Forming opinions about "lessons learned" based on actions taken in one month's time is completely premature.

    It will take the Democratic party a whole generation to change. Right now it's elected leaders are OLD FARTS (including Bernie Sanders, probably the oldest fart of them all). The party will need to recruit, train, and support new and younger members and candidates who will make incremental change over a lifetime, the way the Republicans have managed to shift this country slowly to the right since their revolution started in the 90s.

    . . . I'll check back in 2040 to see what the Democratic Party learned.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited December 2016
    Bernie Sanders is the only "old fart" who is not only doing something, but is also not a Democrat. Oh how much that speaks.

    It shouldn't take more than a month to admit where your faults were with your weak candidate and then going after Russia for the election problems.

    Keep apologizing for your weak party and their need not to come to terms with reality.
    Post edited by Free on
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 7,123
    Free said:

    Bernie Sanders is the only "old fart" who is not only doing something, but is also not a Democrat. Oh how much that speaks.

    It shouldn't take more than a month to admit where your faults were with your weak candidate and then going after Russia for the election problems.

    Keep apologizing for your weak party and their need not to come to terms with reality.

    Why do you give a fuck about our party? Seems like you shouldn't be concerned at all.
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 3,613
    mrussel1 said:

    BS44325 said:

    The Dems have bigger problems then they realize...

    Senator John Kennedy is a republican now

    http://www.nola.com/elections/index.ssf/2016/12/john_kennedy_louisianas_next_u.html

    LA politics are just strange... too much French influence. Same with their civil law procedures. That state is a real PITA.
    But really good food
  • Free said:

    Bernie Sanders is the only "old fart" who is not only doing something, but is also not a Democrat. Oh how much that speaks.

    It shouldn't take more than a month to admit where your faults were with your weak candidate and then going after Russia for the election problems.

    Keep apologizing for your weak party and their need not to come to terms with reality.

    At what point in my comment do you see an apology for "my" weak party? Or its denial of reality? I made it very clear that the Dems need a long-term strategy. After the old fart Bernie is dead, which will be sooner rather than later, he will need to be replaced -- with someone who can be elected.

    Sheesh -- You are always looking for a fight where there isn't one.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562

    Free said:

    Bernie Sanders is the only "old fart" who is not only doing something, but is also not a Democrat. Oh how much that speaks.

    It shouldn't take more than a month to admit where your faults were with your weak candidate and then going after Russia for the election problems.

    Keep apologizing for your weak party and their need not to come to terms with reality.

    At what point in my comment do you see an apology for "my" weak party? Or its denial of reality? I made it very clear that the Dems need a long-term strategy. After the old fart Bernie is dead, which will be sooner rather than later, he will need to be replaced -- with someone who can be elected.

    Sheesh -- You are always looking for a fight where there isn't one.
    Like a lot of people, you attempt to insult at the same time claiming to be innocent.
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,103
    edited January 2
    Free said:
    From the article
    “There are some people who think that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist, a sexist or a homophobe or a xenophobe. I don’t believe that. Are those people in his camp? Absolutely. But it would be a tragic mistake to believe that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a 'deplorable.' They’re not,” Sanders said.

    And there will still be people on here that would argue that this idea and article is not a day late nor a dollar short.
    I like President Trump.
  • InHiding80InHiding80 Upland,CAPosts: 7,623

    Free said:
    From the article
    “There are some people who think that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist, a sexist or a homophobe or a xenophobe. I don’t believe that. Are those people in his camp? Absolutely. But it would be a tragic mistake to believe that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a 'deplorable.' They’re not,” Sanders said.

    And there will still be people on here that would argue that this idea and article is not a day late nor a dollar short.
    I like President Trump.
    You wouldn't like him if he had a vagina colored skin and a D next to his name but facts don't enter your "only white male republicans are allowed to be crooked" racist bubble.
    RIP America (1776-2016)
  • InHiding80InHiding80 Upland,CAPosts: 7,623
    BS44325 said:

    "I'm with her" was the worst slogan of all time. As soon as Trump said "I'm with you" it was over.

    That is one thing I will actually agree with you on. Then again, I voted for Stein and hate Clinton anyways. I love how she turned it around with "She's with us" and "I'm with Jill."
    RIP America (1776-2016)
  • Free said:
    From the article
    “There are some people who think that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist, a sexist or a homophobe or a xenophobe. I don’t believe that. Are those people in his camp? Absolutely. But it would be a tragic mistake to believe that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a 'deplorable.' They’re not,” Sanders said.

    And there will still be people on here that would argue that this idea and article is not a day late nor a dollar short.
    I like President Trump.
    You wouldn't like him if he had a vagina colored skin and a D next to his name but facts don't enter your "only white male republicans are allowed to be crooked" racist bubble.
    Actually I dislike all people who are racist.
    I don't see colour, race or religion.
    Anger shines in people though and those are the ones I avoid.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 5,733

    Free said:
    From the article
    “There are some people who think that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist, a sexist or a homophobe or a xenophobe. I don’t believe that. Are those people in his camp? Absolutely. But it would be a tragic mistake to believe that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a 'deplorable.' They’re not,” Sanders said.

    And there will still be people on here that would argue that this idea and article is not a day late nor a dollar short.
    I like President Trump.
    You wouldn't like him if he had a vagina colored skin and a D next to his name but facts don't enter your "only white male republicans are allowed to be crooked" racist bubble.
    Actually I dislike all people who are racist.
    I don't see colour, race or religion.
    Anger shines in people though and those are the ones I avoid.
    Why don't you avoid Trump, then? Anger shows through in almost every tweet.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,103
    edited January 3
    ^^^
    I don't avoid Trump because like Mohamed he hits the truth, for everyone who allows it.
    His tweets are not angry ones, however some posts on AMT about him are.
  • InHiding80InHiding80 Upland,CAPosts: 7,623
    edited January 3

    Free said:
    From the article
    “There are some people who think that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist, a sexist or a homophobe or a xenophobe. I don’t believe that. Are those people in his camp? Absolutely. But it would be a tragic mistake to believe that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a 'deplorable.' They’re not,” Sanders said.

    And there will still be people on here that would argue that this idea and article is not a day late nor a dollar short.
    I like President Trump.
    You wouldn't like him if he had a vagina colored skin and a D next to his name but facts don't enter your "only white male republicans are allowed to be crooked" racist bubble.
    Actually I dislike all people who are racist.
    I don't see colour, race or religion.
    Anger shines in people though and those are the ones I avoid.
    You spelled, "You're right. I'm a racist hypocrite. It's okay for me to admit I'm wrong. It's bad as I thought it would be," wrong.
    RIP America (1776-2016)
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 7,123

    Free said:
    From the article
    “There are some people who think that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a racist, a sexist or a homophobe or a xenophobe. I don’t believe that. Are those people in his camp? Absolutely. But it would be a tragic mistake to believe that everybody who voted for Donald Trump is a 'deplorable.' They’re not,” Sanders said.

    And there will still be people on here that would argue that this idea and article is not a day late nor a dollar short.
    I like President Trump.
    You wouldn't like him if he had a vagina colored skin and a D next to his name but facts don't enter your "only white male republicans are allowed to be crooked" racist bubble.
    Actually I dislike all people who are racist.
    I don't see colour, race or religion.
    Anger shines in people though and those are the ones I avoid.
    You don't see color? Are you blind?
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