Only 2 Drummers Get In? RnRHOF. Merged

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HughFreakingDillon

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classy.

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JB128716

Weeeeee

Zod

Ledbetterman10 said:

JB128716 said:

hrd2imgn said:

I love Jackie. But seriously if you only are on two albums of a ten record span do you. Really deserve to be in? MFC and DK are the right guys.

But Dave K was only on one album so by your logic, he shouldn't get in.

I think the Rock Hall might be thinking that despite playing on the least amount of albums, Krusen's drumming with Pearl Jam has been heard more than any other dummer's. Just from a radio-play standpoint, I'd wager a guess that Even Flow, Alive, Jeremy, and Yellow Ledbetter combined have been spun on the radio more than any songs that the entire catalog of songs that Dave A, Jack, or Matt have drummed on.

Yah but on that logic, Dave A. would be 2nd, because it's really only the first 3 albums that get regular radio airplay. Matt's albums would probably be the least ever played on the radio. I guess I still think all the drummers that drummed on studio albums should be included. Dave K. was on the biggest album. Dave A. was on the other 2 mega successful/influentual albums. Jack still drummed on two platinum selling albums. Matt's been there a long time

mfc2006

I'm sure they'll all be there, just won't all get inducted.

HughFreakingDillon

mfc2006 said:

I'm sure they'll all be there, just won't all get inducted.

exactly. Chad Channing was there. Dave Mustaine was there. CJ Ramone was there. etc etc.

jp307677

Enough with this Dave A business. The guy is meaningless, period. Some people will never get over the "Ten era". You could completely erase that entire era and this band would still be just as great.
Jack Irons and Matt Cameron were the two drummers with the most influence and made a difference in the band.

BV84003

^If Ten and Vs. weren't consistently in the top 2 or 3 most played albums on each tour I might be inclined to agree with you, at least about moving on from the past. Dave A made significant contributions to this band at one point in time and that should merely be acknowledged. Period.

fluff4u

jp307677 said:

Enough with this Dave A business. The guy is meaningless, period. Some people will never get over the "Ten era". You could completely erase that entire era and this band would still be just as great.
Jack Irons and Matt Cameron were the two drummers with the most influence and made a difference in the band.

Jack Irons? Worst of them all.

KV4053

Merkin Baller said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Merkin Baller said:

Jack Irons is responsible for this band getting together & keeping it together a few years later for No Code & Yield,

...speaking of romanticising.

Well, Jack Irons gave the demo tape to EV, so that's a fact, I'm not romanticizing the past. If not for him, EV never gets the demos tape.

As far as him saving the band, don't take my word for it:

"The band’s plan to record on the road—Chicago, New Orleans, Seattle, Atlanta—while still stringing together Ticketmaster-less shows only stretched the frayed bonds of communication further. But this time Irons was on hand to hold the center together. “Everybody was on their best musical behavior around him,” producer Brendan O’Brien admitted to Spin. McCready called him a “big spiritual influence—if not the biggest.”

Irons wasn’t just massaging bruised egos. His loose, tribal drumming style was creating an entirely new terrain for the rest of the band to stretch out on. “We realized we had a chance to experiment,” Vedder told Spin. But what was happening in the studio was more akin to an outright reinvention."

( http://www.avclub.com/article/trampled-moss-and-sitars-pearl-jams-tricky-transfo-240770 )

Gossard almost quit after Vitaolgy, Ament almost quit during the onset of the No Code sessions - multiple members of the band credit JI with keeping them together.

So how am I romanticizing his contribution exactly?

you made the case.

Spiritual_Chaos

hrd2imgn said:

I love Jackie. But seriously if you only are on two albums of a ten record span do you. Really deserve to be in? MFC and DK are the right guys.

More happend to cement Pearl Jam into the rock conciseness during Dave A:s time than Matt C's.

Has Matts albums during his time even sold close to the albums during Dave A's time?

Not arguing that Dave A or whatever should be inducted. I just think it's weird to induct a band but then also pick and choose pieces of tat band to induct and not just say; PEARL JAM - AS A BAND AND WITH ALL OF ITS HISTORY AS A BAND - HAS BEEN INDUCTED.

Spiritual_Chaos

jp307677 said:

Enough with this Dave A business. The guy is meaningless, period. Some people will never get over the "Ten era". You could completely erase that entire era and this band would still be just as great.
Jack Irons and Matt Cameron were the two drummers with the most influence and made a difference in the band.

Haha. Sure....

OceansJenny

I love all the Pearl Jam apologists. I'm sure if you flopped Cameron and Abruzzese's timelines these people would be singing the same tune against Cameron (not important, get over it, Dave's our drummer now, etc).

Listen to the music and decide for yourself. When the music speaks for itself, Dave is my man. And a lot of other people feel the same.

https://www.change.org/p/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-demand-david-abbruzzese-s-inclusion-with-pearl-jam-s-hof-induction

HughFreakingDillon

jp307677 said:

Enough with this Dave A business. The guy is meaningless, period. Some people will never get over the "Ten era". You could completely erase that entire era and this band would still be just as great.
Jack Irons and Matt Cameron were the two drummers with the most influence and made a difference in the band.

-if it weren't for Ten, it's doubtful any of us would be here. yes, they had great albums after that. but Ten is what put them on the map. if vs was the debut, I highly doubt they would have had even near the same impact.
-Dave A had a massive influence on them and their ability to play agressive music that spoke to a TONNE of people.
-jack irons is a great drummer, and brought a lot to the band, gave them a different sound, allowed them to do different things musically, but his influence vs dave's influence is arguable at best.

I would have liked to have seen both Dave A and Jack inducted, along with Matt and Dave K, although I think Dave K's contributions are could be argued against.. hopefully the boys are classy enough to mention them during their speech. Ed mentioned Dave A and wished him well when they dusted off Angel this past year, so I'm sure they'll do it at RRHOF.

mcgruff10

fluff4u said:

jp307677 said:

Enough with this Dave A business. The guy is meaningless, period. Some people will never get over the "Ten era". You could completely erase that entire era and this band would still be just as great.
Jack Irons and Matt Cameron were the two drummers with the most influence and made a difference in the band.

Jack Irons? Worst of them all.

Not like he saved the band or anything.

Merkin Baller

I love Member Berries.

HesCalledDyer

12 pages arguing over an okay drummer who appeared on 2 of 10 albums.

OceansJenny

HesCalledDyer said:

12 pages arguing over an okay drummer who appeared on 2 of 10 albums.

Then that means he meant something to a lot of people! Not to be dismissed.

HughFreakingDillon

HesCalledDyer said:

12 pages arguing over an okay drummer who appeared on 2 of 10 albums.

it's an interesting discussion. and I honestly don't think there would be this much back and forth if Krusen wasn't getting inducted. If Matt, their longest serving drummer, and biggest influence musically because of his own songwriting, was the only one, I think it would be left alone. But you add Krusen, whose drumming on Ten arguably had very little if any influence on the material itself, and it creates all sorts of arguments as to why he's in but the other two are not.

lotsalemon

HesCalledDyer said:

12 pages arguing over an okay drummer who appeared on 2 of 10 albums.

Just an okay drummer??!!!

Zod

HesCalledDyer said:

12 pages arguing over an okay drummer who appeared on 2 of 10 albums.

A drummer who played on 66.67% of pearl jam's most famous albums. The 2 albums he played on eclipsed the sales and popularity of the 7 albums followed his tenure. The RRoF is generally about the influence (and to the extend a popularity of the band). Pearl Jam's comes from their first 3 albums. All 3 albums were big, epic and huge. Without those albums they don't get nominated. So how do you snub a guy who was in the band for 2 of them?

It feels like the same argument I made why the the new members of KISS shouldn't be inducted. The legend of KISS was all done by the original lineup. Their legacy, their best (most popular/influential albums) etc... Even though the new members have been in the band for the better part of a decade they had almost no impact on KISS' legacy.

I think Dave A. had an impact. He was a member of the band during their most influential period on 2/3rd's of their most influential albums. As much as we all love the later albums. It's not Binaural or Riot Act that get's the band to the RRoF. It's Ten, Vs., and Vitalogy.

OceansJenny

Zod said:

HesCalledDyer said:

12 pages arguing over an okay drummer who appeared on 2 of 10 albums.

A drummer who played on 66.67% of pearl jam's most famous albums. The 2 albums he played on eclipsed the sales and popularity of the 7 albums followed his tenure. The RRoF is generally about the influence (and to the extend a popularity of the band). Pearl Jam's comes from their first 3 albums. All 3 albums were big, epic and huge. Without those albums they don't get nominated. So how do you snub a guy who was in the band for 2 of them?

It feels like the same argument I made why the the new members of KISS shouldn't be inducted. The legend of KISS was all done by the original lineup. Their legacy, their best (most popular/influential albums) etc... Even though the new members have been in the band for the better part of a decade they had almost no impact on KISS' legacy.

I think Dave A. had an impact. He was a member of the band during their most influential period on 2/3rd's of their most influential albums. As much as we all love the later albums. It's not Binaural or Riot Act that get's the band to the RRoF. It's Ten, Vs., and Vitalogy.

We'll said

HughFreakingDillon

Zod said:

HesCalledDyer said:

12 pages arguing over an okay drummer who appeared on 2 of 10 albums.

A drummer who played on 66.67% of pearl jam's most famous albums. The 2 albums he played on eclipsed the sales and popularity of the 7 albums followed his tenure. The RRoF is generally about the influence (and to the extend a popularity of the band). Pearl Jam's comes from their first 3 albums. All 3 albums were big, epic and huge. Without those albums they don't get nominated. So how do you snub a guy who was in the band for 2 of them?

It feels like the same argument I made why the the new members of KISS shouldn't be inducted. The legend of KISS was all done by the original lineup. Their legacy, their best (most popular/influential albums) etc... Even though the new members have been in the band for the better part of a decade they had almost no impact on KISS' legacy.

I think Dave A. had an impact. He was a member of the band during their most influential period on 2/3rd's of their most influential albums. As much as we all love the later albums. It's not Binaural or Riot Act that get's the band to the RRoF. It's Ten, Vs., and Vitalogy.

very true.

drakeheuer14

I find it much more interesting how annoyed people are that some want Dave A to get in. We want to celebrate his impact and style and helping put PJ on the map. Its not like we are asking for him to tour again!

chitownp76

Would you invite your ex to an award ceremony where you were being honored?.......awkward

OceansJenny

chitownp76 said:

Would you invite your ex to an award ceremony where you were being honored?.......awkward

Yeah well this is business, not personal.

HesCalledDyer

I have no problem with just Krusen & Cameron getting in. I have no problem with Abbruzzese not getting in nor would I have a problem if he did. I'd love to see Jack Irons get in. Poor Matt Chamberlain, no one seems to give a fuck about that guy (yeah I know he was only a brief touring drummer and didn't appear on albums, no need to point it out). Am I going to argue back and forth about who's who and what's what? No. It ain't up to me, any of you, or the band. And none of it bothers me either way.

Merkin Baller

OceansJenny said:

chitownp76 said:

Would you invite your ex to an award ceremony where you were being honored?.......awkward

Yeah well this is business, not personal.

How do you know?

None of us know what really went on behind the scenes, so how do you know it's not personal?

HughFreakingDillon

chitownp76 said:

Would you invite your ex to an award ceremony where you were being honored?.......awkward

if I was getting awarded for something we worked on together, then yes, of course. that's called adulting.

but again, it's not up to the band who gets inducted. and each inductee, as far as I've read, only gets a very limited amount of passes for guests, so it's undestandable if Dave A isn't tops on any of their lists.