Kaepernick

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 10,182
    No mention of Jemele Hill of ESPN getting suspended?
    http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/09/media/jemele-hill-espn-suspended/index.html
  • dignindignin Posts: 5,359
    Ugh, listening to Trump ramble on and joke with the Penguins behind him makes me sick.

    They shouldn't have went.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 6,100
    edited October 10
    mickeyrat said:
    meanwhile, the real issue is still ongoing and people are being murdered.....
    maybe lets focus on that instead of the manufactured distraction.
    It's how white supremacists (alt-right) have mainstreamed their message and turn it into policy. Take an issue and turn it into 'liberals hate our country and are destroying it'. Conservatives and closeted bigots will support this over what it actually is, which is an attempt to keep white privilege, if not grow it. trump and friends know this works. 

    You're giving these people a lot of credit suggesting the reality is by design.

    It might very well be, but such an idea means Trump is far more formidable than I've ever believed him to be. I'd hate to think I have been wrong about him.

    Donald Trump... highly intelligent... in pursuit of a bigger, more sinister vision than meets the eye.

    Hmmm. Maybe. 
    It's not so much by trump's design, but he certainly goes along with it. Read up on Richard Spencer and his work on getting the white supremacist message more mainstream. Also read the Buzzfeed article on Yani and Bannon's communication about doing this very thing where they hitched that message on to the liberal hate wagon. trump wants to feed his narcissism first by getting a reaction from supporters, and then satisfy his bigotry second.  
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 6,935
    benjs said:
    mickeyrat said:
    meanwhile, the real issue is still ongoing and people are being murdered.....
    maybe lets focus on that instead of the manufactured distraction.
    It's how white supremacists (alt-right) have mainstreamed their message and turn it into policy. Take an issue and turn it into 'liberals hate our country and are destroying it'. Conservatives and closeted bigots will support this over what it actually is, which is an attempt to keep white privilege, if not grow it. trump and friends know this works. 

    You're giving these people a lot of credit suggesting the reality is by design.

    It might very well be, but such an idea means Trump is far more formidable than I've ever believed him to be. I'd hate to think I have been wrong about him.

    Donald Trump... highly intelligent... in pursuit of a bigger, more sinister vision than meets the eye.

    Hmmm. Maybe. 
    Whether there's malice in the distractions being brought forward, or whether they're simply an impulsive dictatorial leader's whims of the moment, the reality is the same: things that matter are being forgotten, and replaced by things that don't. 

    Good, neutral, or bad for Trump (and intentional or accidental) are irrelevant to me. It's the goodness of his acts for the population (again, whether intentional or accidental) which matter.

    I hear what you are saying, but I do think it is significant to fully comprehend what we're dealing with in order to deal with it.

    Is Trump Inspector Clouseau... or is Trump a sinister dictator?

    Has he skillfully managed to distract the public to further a bigger agenda... or has he clumsily managed to distract the public with no real plan in place? The answer to this question results in, as you stated, the same reality; however, at the risk of being wrong... it is my opinion that the 'Clouseau' variety Trump is less threatening and easier to manage than the 'sinister' variety.
    I guess from my perspective, Trump is producing a reality which is sinister, regardless of his intent. Either he has sinister intent, or his 'Clouseau' behaviour has led him to be manipulated by others with that sinister intent, which he then implements.

    It's sad, but I just can't visualize a democracy working in the long-term if its designers (i.e. politicians) are permitted to partake in capitalism (for example, negotiating deals to produce profit for themselves) - and I can't visualize a citizen participating in democratic design if he or she isn't welcome to partake in capitalism. 
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    EV
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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 21,340
    OnWis97 said:
    brianlux said:
    I bet it's over 50% among NFL fans, which is why they have no choice here.
    If that's true, then football is a sport for brain-dead fucks.  But I don't think that's the case.  

    Well, maybe*...

    ... but then, I'm a baseball fan.

    *JUST KIDDING, football fans.  I watch our 9ers now and then too!
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
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  • ^^^
    It's pretty clear that the Cowboys can't kneel now or it will be considered disrespecting the flag and they will not be allowed to play. Yet some people here still think the keeling is only about social and racial injustices.  It's straightforward and logical thinking to see it this way.  The kneeling has become anti-Trump. Admit it.


    so because Jerry Jones says it's about the flag, it's about the flag? an old white dude telling black people what they're protesting about?

    look, the increase in kneeling is partially about Trump, but not specifically him. It's about a white man in the highest position of power telling people of colour that the protest of racial inequality is disrespecting the country and all it stands for and that they are wrong to be doing it. at the same time as saying that white supremacists are good people and that they should be allowed to protest.

    THAT IS WHAT OPPRESSION IS.

    he is attempting to silence them and downplay the issues they are bringing to the forefront. they aren't protesting Trump, they are protesting what he stands for, and that is the oppression and inequality of white people. The more he riles his base up against black people, the more black people are going to join in the protest. 

    the kaepernick issue was largely being ignored until Trump brought it up. especially since he wasn't even on the field this year. he created this monster himself. I don't know yet if it's brilliance in riling up the racists and to distract them from how terrible his presidency is, or if it's just him being incredibly stupid and and it working out for him at the same time. Much like his candidacy, and now his presidency, it seems like everything he says/does is brilliant in its absolute stupidity. 

    he is confounding his detractors and keeps them scrambling on how to react at every turn. but I don't think he does it on purpose. I think it's just that his base is just as stupid as he is and frothing at the mouth at every word he says. that's what they love about him. they feel like they can relate to him on the most basic level. 

    Trump, if you recall, also took credit for Kaepernick not getting signed, saying he'd create a PR crisis for any team that signed him. 

    You have a lot of good points in that opinion.  I do recall President Trump saying "create a PR crisis".....

    I also believe that big changes are coming for the NFL and fast with regards to the anthem and standing.  I venture to say that anyone who kneels will either be placed on waivers or bought out.



    Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming. AE
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 12,120
    ^^^
    It's pretty clear that the Cowboys can't kneel now or it will be considered disrespecting the flag and they will not be allowed to play. Yet some people here still think the keeling is only about social and racial injustices.  It's straightforward and logical thinking to see it this way.  The kneeling has become anti-Trump. Admit it.


    so because Jerry Jones says it's about the flag, it's about the flag? an old white dude telling black people what they're protesting about?

    look, the increase in kneeling is partially about Trump, but not specifically him. It's about a white man in the highest position of power telling people of colour that the protest of racial inequality is disrespecting the country and all it stands for and that they are wrong to be doing it. at the same time as saying that white supremacists are good people and that they should be allowed to protest.

    THAT IS WHAT OPPRESSION IS.

    he is attempting to silence them and downplay the issues they are bringing to the forefront. they aren't protesting Trump, they are protesting what he stands for, and that is the oppression and inequality of white people. The more he riles his base up against black people, the more black people are going to join in the protest. 

    the kaepernick issue was largely being ignored until Trump brought it up. especially since he wasn't even on the field this year. he created this monster himself. I don't know yet if it's brilliance in riling up the racists and to distract them from how terrible his presidency is, or if it's just him being incredibly stupid and and it working out for him at the same time. Much like his candidacy, and now his presidency, it seems like everything he says/does is brilliant in its absolute stupidity. 

    he is confounding his detractors and keeps them scrambling on how to react at every turn. but I don't think he does it on purpose. I think it's just that his base is just as stupid as he is and frothing at the mouth at every word he says. that's what they love about him. they feel like they can relate to him on the most basic level. 

    Trump, if you recall, also took credit for Kaepernick not getting signed, saying he'd create a PR crisis for any team that signed him. 

    You have a lot of good points in that opinion.  I do recall President Trump saying "create a PR crisis".....

    I also believe that big changes are coming for the NFL and fast with regards to the anthem and standing.  I venture to say that anyone who kneels will either be placed on waivers or bought out.



    that would only happen if the player is deemed expendable anyway and the statement the club wants to make is worth more to them than the player. no way a first star gets benched. not a chance. 
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 9,572
    A piece of cloth manufactured in China and words sung to the tune of an old English drinking song.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 6,433
    A piece of cloth manufactured in China and words sung to the tune of an old English drinking song.
    But they're good words. The best!
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 10,771
    A piece of cloth manufactured in China and words sung to the tune of an old English drinking song.
    But they're good words. The best!
    I like the words, agree.
    Overall, I like your anthem more as a song.
    Rob
    Seattle

    Berkeley 10/31/93,Indio 11/5/93,San Diego 11/7/95,Irvine 6/3/03,LA 7/10/06,Universal City 10/7/09,Long Beach 7/6/11 (EV),Vancouver 9/25/11, Philly 9/2/12,Wrigley 7/19/13,Philly 1 & 2,10/21/13,10/22/13, Cincy 10/1/14, GCF 9/26/15, Philly 1/2 4/28/16, 4/29/16, MSG 1/2 5/1/16, 5/2/16, Fenway2 8/7/16
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 10,771
    edited October 16
    Kaep is filing a grievance against the league for collusion by the owners.
    He has other motivation beyond wanting a job.
    Could be a big deal....but I don't see how he could provide any proof.
    Mark Geragos confirms filing of Colin Kaepernick collusion grievance
    Post edited by F Me In The Brain on
    Rob
    Seattle

    Berkeley 10/31/93,Indio 11/5/93,San Diego 11/7/95,Irvine 6/3/03,LA 7/10/06,Universal City 10/7/09,Long Beach 7/6/11 (EV),Vancouver 9/25/11, Philly 9/2/12,Wrigley 7/19/13,Philly 1 & 2,10/21/13,10/22/13, Cincy 10/1/14, GCF 9/26/15, Philly 1/2 4/28/16, 4/29/16, MSG 1/2 5/1/16, 5/2/16, Fenway2 8/7/16
  • elvistheking44elvistheking44 Posts: 3,166
    It’s the NFL. Rapists, drug users, drug dealers and even a murderer play. Has nothing to do with his protest. He sucks. End of story.
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 3,039
    It’s the NFL. Rapists, drug users, drug dealers and even a murderer play. Has nothing to do with his protest. He sucks. End of story.
    Forgot limiting it to the NFL. It's the USA. The white house is occupied by a sexual assaulting xenophobic racist. If he wasn't a white male he would have never been elected. He sucks. End of our country. Fuck the NFL. Would you expect anything more from a rich white guys club. How many of those assholes voted for a morally bankrupt sleazeball, but balk at a player kneeling for their precious cash cow of an orgasmic military dog and pony show? I never have had a problem standing for the anthem, but all this bullshit is really making me loathe the nationalistic propaganda they're turning it into. Forced patriotism is nothing but fascist fellatio to the nth degree.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 2,883
    It’s the NFL. Rapists, drug users, drug dealers and even a murderer play. Has nothing to do with his protest. He sucks. End of story.
    He's better than half the NFL QBs playing right now.  End of story.

    He has a case
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 10,771
    He is better than some of the QBs playing right now but I don't see how he can prove anything.  
    Also, if the owners individually find employing him unattractive then it wouldn't be collusion either.
    They have to work together to make some sort of deal to avoid him and I just don't think that happened.
    If he would have been willing to accept back up money to be a back up in Seattle he may have had that job.

    Rob
    Seattle

    Berkeley 10/31/93,Indio 11/5/93,San Diego 11/7/95,Irvine 6/3/03,LA 7/10/06,Universal City 10/7/09,Long Beach 7/6/11 (EV),Vancouver 9/25/11, Philly 9/2/12,Wrigley 7/19/13,Philly 1 & 2,10/21/13,10/22/13, Cincy 10/1/14, GCF 9/26/15, Philly 1/2 4/28/16, 4/29/16, MSG 1/2 5/1/16, 5/2/16, Fenway2 8/7/16
  • vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USAPosts: 2,251
    It’s the NFL. Rapists, drug users, drug dealers and even a murderer play. Has nothing to do with his protest. He sucks. End of story.
    if we stopped worshipping professional athletes so much, we'd probably be a much better off world.
  • RYMERYME Wisconsin Posts: 746
    edited October 16
    pjhawks said:
    pjhawks said:
    pjhawks said:
    Fair enough, I get what you are saying.

    I think there are some who would say that Patriotism is something that goes as deeply as an emotion can go. 

    Strong support for one's country does not necessarily mean you support a 'cultivation of fear and ignorance', and I would put out there that Patriotism does not mean that you feel 'you are better for no other reason that being born in a certain geographic area.' 

    Hey, you can believe what you want.  My opinion is that your statement is a pretty harsh judgement on a big group of people (people who would define themselves as 'Patriotic') and that it might be slightly antagonistic toward many, many people.  This sort of rhetoric is part of the problem today, in my opinion. 

    As stated before here, I do not think that Mr Kaepernick shows any lack of Patriotism because he chooses to kneel in silent protest during the playing of the National Anthem at a sporting event.  Based on his actions, I believe he has a very strong support for his country....he also is working to draw attention to some things he feels need to be changed in his country. 
    we are having a discussion on a message board. I'm not walking around with a sign on my back saying "patriots are idiots". 

    I can understand patriotism if you are, say, a military family. hey, you gotta have a strong emotional connection to your country if you are willing to die for it. But I'm talking about the average citizen who sing the national anthem at a sporting event without even considering why. or telling others they need to take their hat off, and when you ask why, all they can utter is "it's disrespectful", but they have zero idea why. 

    I don't know if Kaepernick is a patriot or not. I don't think his protest has anything to do with it either way. all he's highlighting is the gross inequality in the US towards minorities. 
    Why is a discussion here different than how you speak with people irl?

    What if (for example) you just love your country because you can look at your grandparents and see that 3 out of 4 of them came to this country from other places?  (Italy x2, PR x1)  The 4th grandparent saw his parents come from some other country.  (Ireland)
    They all came to this country to try and live better lives -- for themselves, and for their families.
    Each generation has done a better than the previous one when it comes to jobs, financial stability, and education....to the point where I do things now for my family that I am sure my grandparents, were they alive, would be blown away by. 
    This is because of the opportunity this country allowed hard working people who took advantage of the right conditions for them, personally, and parlayed that into a better future.
    I love my country.  I am puzzled by the direction we are taking, and certainly dismayed by the actions of some of our citizens.

    It is my opinion that not every immigrant had the same journey as my family did.  I respect their opinions about their country, they are no doubt shaped by the realities that they (and theirs) experienced.

    Your assumption is that the "average citizen" would not have any idea as to how to express themselves relative to their beliefs.  I again find this, imo, to be presumptuous and inflammatory.  It is your right to feel that way -- and to tell others you think so little of them -- but I do not happen to agree.  Not sure what you are basing the opinion on, although I guess it does not matter.  It is what you believe & real to you.  I think if you came here, went to a sporting event, and asked people, that they would be able to tell you why they stand and salute....and why the symbol of this country is important to them.

    I think if you read some of what Kaepernick has shared, he has expressed his admiration of our troops, his appreciation for what this country has given to him & many others...and at the same time that he is certainly trying to address how some are treated & how this treatment (in his opinion) is widely ignored.
    He initially sat during the anthem and then moved to the sideline and kneeled, saying he felt that was showing his respect for the flag & also his belief in others noting the need for changes.  (Paraphrasing, certainly, that is my recollection of what he indicated at the time.)

    Overall, it seems we agree in supporting his right to kneel, his right to support causes he believes in...we disconnect on the definition of Patriotism and the belief system the 'Average American' has when it comes to Patriotism.   That is OK.  You can lump Patriots all together in your beliefs.

    I will continue to practice Pastafarianism as my religion (jokingly) & also to stand and salute the symbol of our country, its great history, the people who have fought for us & continue to serve, and what that means to me & has meant to my family.  (And, to support the rights of Kaepernick to try and cause positive change in our society, where I also agree we need many positive changes.) 

    It makes me smile to know that some of our neighbors to the north are so concerned about us, while at the same time thinking that the Patriots in the US are such ignorant followers of our leaders, cheering on the cultivation of ignorance....all the while thinking we are better than everyone else because of where we were born.  :)

    I am a Patriot.  I strongly support the USA.  I do not agree with Donald J. Trump...I did not vote for Donald J. Trump.  I still strongly support and love the USA, many flaws though we have.

    Keep on doing what you believe in Kaepernick, we all need to try to make it a better world...day by day.
     

    very well said.  I don't quite understand why it bothers non-Americans that a lot of people in this country love their country and are patriotic towards it. 
    however, I will ask you......do you not see the relation of american patriotism and:

    -bigotry and racism (hello, travel ban/fear of immigration-and yes, the latter predates Trump)
    -the wars america has waged in the name of "liberating" others to be more american-like? the reasons those wars are actually waged have zero to do with patriotism, b.ut the recruitment of troops is all patriotism and "love for/duty towards country". 
    -bigotry and racism (hello, travel ban/fear of immigration-and yes, the latter predates Trump)  - no. idiots are idiots not because of their country.  Do you consider Europeans false patriots because they have issues with immigration?


    -the wars america has waged in the name of "liberating" others to be more american-like? the reasons those wars are actually waged have zero to do with patriotism, but the recruitment of troops is all patriotism and "love for/duty towards country".   - how else would you suggest to recruit for military service?  Unlike many countries our Military is fully volunteer. There is no required service.  
    europeans, at present, have a much more legitimate concern with regards to immigration than the US does. 

    you made my point. 
    And you didn't answer my question.  in an all volunteer military how would you suggest they recruit if not using love for/duty towards country?  maybe they should advertise their cool uniforms, free meals and training?  
    The Packers have a roster spot in a quarterback I think the Packers should pick him up if he's kept himself in shape I think I'd be a good pickup. I think you could come back to his own home state and I think the Packers should offer him a job.

    Post edited by RYME on
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 10,771
    I'm glad the 49ers finally bailed on that glorified 3rd string QB that some were defending them starting here in this thread.  Hoyer was awful -- truly abysmal.  Rather start the rookie and see where we might get.  Would have preferred that Kaepernick did not opt out and he could have started this season...see if Shanny could have worked with him. 

    I support his desire to effect change but I also know that the owners have the right to choose to sign who they want and they may not want someone who impacts fans negatively if he is not going to be a long term starter.  This is why GB could be interesting....
    Rob
    Seattle

    Berkeley 10/31/93,Indio 11/5/93,San Diego 11/7/95,Irvine 6/3/03,LA 7/10/06,Universal City 10/7/09,Long Beach 7/6/11 (EV),Vancouver 9/25/11, Philly 9/2/12,Wrigley 7/19/13,Philly 1 & 2,10/21/13,10/22/13, Cincy 10/1/14, GCF 9/26/15, Philly 1/2 4/28/16, 4/29/16, MSG 1/2 5/1/16, 5/2/16, Fenway2 8/7/16
  • elvistheking44elvistheking44 Posts: 3,166
    edited October 16
    Smellyman said:
    It’s the NFL. Rapists, drug users, drug dealers and even a murderer play. Has nothing to do with his protest. He sucks. End of story.
    He's better than half the NFL QBs playing right now.  End of story.

    He has a case
    Neither he or his agent/team has sent a single workout video to any team in the NFL since he lost his job.  How good is he really, doesn’t seem to be trying to hard to find a job to me.  
    Also, do some looking into what his past coaches have said about his football IQ.  It’s not good....
    Post edited by elvistheking44 on
  • People still don't understand why teams have chosen not to invest in the 'package' that is Kaepernick. Some of the comments seem to think that signing the guy is no different than signing a drive thru operator at Wendy's.

    He has no team to play for because of the trade-off he presents: he offers serviceability at the price of inconsistency, poor character from a position that demands leadership and distraction.

    The NFL gives all kinds of players opportunities, but once their serviceability outweighs their production... it is over for them. For example, Maurice Clarett was a troubled but studly RB out of Ohio State that led the Buckeyes to a National Championship as a freshman. He was kicked off his college team, but Denver rolled the dice on him drafting him with an early pick. Ultimately, they gave up on him for lack of production and the poor teammate he was. Was he better than 'some' other running backs who were given contracts and remained employed? Yes. Of course. But the trade-off for Clarett was not worth it. I could list countless other examples.

    There is no collusion here. This is nonsense, but hardly surprising.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • I'm glad the 49ers finally bailed on that glorified 3rd string QB that some were defending them starting here in this thread.  Hoyer was awful -- truly abysmal.  Rather start the rookie and see where we might get.  Would have preferred that Kaepernick did not opt out and he could have started this season...see if Shanny could have worked with him. 

    I support his desire to effect change but I also know that the owners have the right to choose to sign who they want and they may not want someone who impacts fans negatively if he is not going to be a long term starter.  This is why GB could be interesting....

    Well... I don't think anybody was defending Hoyer. I think people were defending his production when you were puking all over him. When he passed for 332 and 2... you said, "Kap would do better." Just last week he passed for 350 and 2 on the road.

    I'm not suggesting Hoyer is going to the Hall of Fame, but to suggest 'Kap would do better' in the face of that type of production is hardly being objective.

    To be fair... this past week... you'd have an argument though! 

    * If GB signed Kap I'd be shocked. If he hadn't taken this additional step... he might have gotten a look, but I feel he's effectively placed a gun to the NFL's head. I don't think the response will be favourable.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 508
    It’s the NFL. Rapists, drug users, drug dealers and even a murderer play. Has nothing to do with his protest. He sucks. End of story.
    You seem to be under the impression that NFL fans hate those people more than they hate someone like Kaepernick.  They don't.  

    I don't know that there's actual collusion going on...I'd say not.  But if he just kept quiet, like NFL fans want their, uh, players, to do, he'd have a job.  He's not elite, but he's among the best 90 QBs around.

    I don't think they are actually colluding but I do think that the teams are unwilling to deal with a) fan backlash and b) the distraction.  Michael Vick, a far worse person than Kaepernick, was no longer all that great when he was signed.  But the league's fanbase doesn't care about drowning and electrocuting dogs.  It cares about nationalism.

    Now, if teams thought Kaepernick was going to be a top-10 starter?  Yeah, someone would have him by now.  No doubt.   But rapists, drug users, drug dealers and even murderers are going to garner far less criticism when filling low-profile roster spots than is an "ungrateful," uh, player, like Kaep.
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  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 10,771
    I'm glad the 49ers finally bailed on that glorified 3rd string QB that some were defending them starting here in this thread.  Hoyer was awful -- truly abysmal.  Rather start the rookie and see where we might get.  Would have preferred that Kaepernick did not opt out and he could have started this season...see if Shanny could have worked with him. 

    I support his desire to effect change but I also know that the owners have the right to choose to sign who they want and they may not want someone who impacts fans negatively if he is not going to be a long term starter.  This is why GB could be interesting....

    Well... I don't think anybody was defending Hoyer. I think people were defending his production when you were puking all over him. When he passed for 332 and 2... you said, "Kap would do better." Just last week he passed for 350 and 2 on the road.

    I'm not suggesting Hoyer is going to the Hall of Fame, but to suggest 'Kap would do better' in the face of that type of production is hardly being objective.

    To be fair... this past week... you'd have an argument though! 

    * If GB signed Kap I'd be shocked. If he hadn't taken this additional step... he might have gotten a look, but I feel he's effectively placed a gun to the NFL's head. I don't think the response will be favourable.
    What people who looked at the stat line were missing was what those of us watching the games saw....his passes were checkdowns and single read, short patterns.  That is not an NFL QB, and certainly not one whose coaching staff trusts.  332 yards and 2 TDs can still represent severely limited QB play. 
    Kaepernick would have won one of these games where they have lost an NFL record 5 in a row.  And...I'm a 49ers fan, I don't need to be objective.  I have a dog in this fight (not like someone who is just stirring the pot for the sake of keeping a discussion going) and I have opinions that I believe to be well founded. 
    Hey, could be wrong!  Been wrong many times before...but him having a good yardage total for a game, and 2 TDs for a game, doesn't mean that he is an NFL QB.  Hoyer is what I said he was....and that is not an NFL caliber starting QB.  Not sure he would start in Canada...

    Thing is, Kaep opted out so there is no reason for the 49ers to have thought about trying to bring him back.  If he wanted to be there, he would have. 
    Rob
    Seattle

    Berkeley 10/31/93,Indio 11/5/93,San Diego 11/7/95,Irvine 6/3/03,LA 7/10/06,Universal City 10/7/09,Long Beach 7/6/11 (EV),Vancouver 9/25/11, Philly 9/2/12,Wrigley 7/19/13,Philly 1 & 2,10/21/13,10/22/13, Cincy 10/1/14, GCF 9/26/15, Philly 1/2 4/28/16, 4/29/16, MSG 1/2 5/1/16, 5/2/16, Fenway2 8/7/16
  • I'm glad the 49ers finally bailed on that glorified 3rd string QB that some were defending them starting here in this thread.  Hoyer was awful -- truly abysmal.  Rather start the rookie and see where we might get.  Would have preferred that Kaepernick did not opt out and he could have started this season...see if Shanny could have worked with him. 

    I support his desire to effect change but I also know that the owners have the right to choose to sign who they want and they may not want someone who impacts fans negatively if he is not going to be a long term starter.  This is why GB could be interesting....

    Well... I don't think anybody was defending Hoyer. I think people were defending his production when you were puking all over him. When he passed for 332 and 2... you said, "Kap would do better." Just last week he passed for 350 and 2 on the road.

    I'm not suggesting Hoyer is going to the Hall of Fame, but to suggest 'Kap would do better' in the face of that type of production is hardly being objective.

    To be fair... this past week... you'd have an argument though! 

    * If GB signed Kap I'd be shocked. If he hadn't taken this additional step... he might have gotten a look, but I feel he's effectively placed a gun to the NFL's head. I don't think the response will be favourable.
    What people who looked at the stat line were missing was what those of us watching the games saw....his passes were checkdowns and single read, short patterns.  That is not an NFL QB, and certainly not one whose coaching staff trusts.  332 yards and 2 TDs can still represent severely limited QB play. 
    Kaepernick would have won one of these games where they have lost an NFL record 5 in a row.  And...I'm a 49ers fan, I don't need to be objective.  I have a dog in this fight (not like someone who is just stirring the pot for the sake of keeping a discussion going) and I have opinions that I believe to be well founded. 
    Hey, could be wrong!  Been wrong many times before...but him having a good yardage total for a game, and 2 TDs for a game, doesn't mean that he is an NFL QB.  Hoyer is what I said he was....and that is not an NFL caliber starting QB.  Not sure he would start in Canada...

    Thing is, Kaep opted out so there is no reason for the 49ers to have thought about trying to bring him back.  If he wanted to be there, he would have. 

    'Stirring the pot for the sake of keeping the discussion going'.

    Sorry for that. I never realized this was an agreement thread.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 3,039
    OnWis97 said:
    It’s the NFL. Rapists, drug users, drug dealers and even a murderer play. Has nothing to do with his protest. He sucks. End of story.
    You seem to be under the impression that NFL fans hate those people more than they hate someone like Kaepernick.  They don't.  

    I don't know that there's actual collusion going on...I'd say not.  But if he just kept quiet, like NFL fans want their, uh, players, to do, he'd have a job.  He's not elite, but he's among the best 90 QBs around.

    I don't think they are actually colluding but I do think that the teams are unwilling to deal with a) fan backlash and b) the distraction.  Michael Vick, a far worse person than Kaepernick, was no longer all that great when he was signed.  But the league's fanbase doesn't care about drowning and electrocuting dogs.  It cares about nationalism.

    Now, if teams thought Kaepernick was going to be a top-10 starter?  Yeah, someone would have him by now.  No doubt.   But rapists, drug users, drug dealers and even murderers are going to garner far less criticism when filling low-profile roster spots than is an "ungrateful," uh, player, like Kaep.
    This. The other problem is that QB is the most high profile position on the team followed by RB & WR. If he wasn't a QB, his level of talent would be enough and no one would bother to care much about the kneeling because he's not the face of team.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 10,771
    I'm glad the 49ers finally bailed on that glorified 3rd string QB that some were defending them starting here in this thread.  Hoyer was awful -- truly abysmal.  Rather start the rookie and see where we might get.  Would have preferred that Kaepernick did not opt out and he could have started this season...see if Shanny could have worked with him. 

    I support his desire to effect change but I also know that the owners have the right to choose to sign who they want and they may not want someone who impacts fans negatively if he is not going to be a long term starter.  This is why GB could be interesting....

    Well... I don't think anybody was defending Hoyer. I think people were defending his production when you were puking all over him. When he passed for 332 and 2... you said, "Kap would do better." Just last week he passed for 350 and 2 on the road.

    I'm not suggesting Hoyer is going to the Hall of Fame, but to suggest 'Kap would do better' in the face of that type of production is hardly being objective.

    To be fair... this past week... you'd have an argument though! 

    * If GB signed Kap I'd be shocked. If he hadn't taken this additional step... he might have gotten a look, but I feel he's effectively placed a gun to the NFL's head. I don't think the response will be favourable.
    What people who looked at the stat line were missing was what those of us watching the games saw....his passes were checkdowns and single read, short patterns.  That is not an NFL QB, and certainly not one whose coaching staff trusts.  332 yards and 2 TDs can still represent severely limited QB play. 
    Kaepernick would have won one of these games where they have lost an NFL record 5 in a row.  And...I'm a 49ers fan, I don't need to be objective.  I have a dog in this fight (not like someone who is just stirring the pot for the sake of keeping a discussion going) and I have opinions that I believe to be well founded. 
    Hey, could be wrong!  Been wrong many times before...but him having a good yardage total for a game, and 2 TDs for a game, doesn't mean that he is an NFL QB.  Hoyer is what I said he was....and that is not an NFL caliber starting QB.  Not sure he would start in Canada...

    Thing is, Kaep opted out so there is no reason for the 49ers to have thought about trying to bring him back.  If he wanted to be there, he would have. 

    'Stirring the pot for the sake of keeping the discussion going'.

    Sorry for that. I never realized this was an agreement thread.
    No apologies needed, sarcastic or not.  We just have a difference of opinion on discussion here.  The purpose (to me) is to share what i believe in and read what others believe to see if that impacts what I was thinking.  I am not inclined to carry on discussions with people playing devil's advocate just for fun.  I find it to be frustrating to be disagreed with, just for disagreement's sake.

    Why I am not very active in AMT.  Seems how I feel is not how many others feel, and that is OK.

    This topic interests me more than some others, however.
    Rob
    Seattle

    Berkeley 10/31/93,Indio 11/5/93,San Diego 11/7/95,Irvine 6/3/03,LA 7/10/06,Universal City 10/7/09,Long Beach 7/6/11 (EV),Vancouver 9/25/11, Philly 9/2/12,Wrigley 7/19/13,Philly 1 & 2,10/21/13,10/22/13, Cincy 10/1/14, GCF 9/26/15, Philly 1/2 4/28/16, 4/29/16, MSG 1/2 5/1/16, 5/2/16, Fenway2 8/7/16
  • I'm glad the 49ers finally bailed on that glorified 3rd string QB that some were defending them starting here in this thread.  Hoyer was awful -- truly abysmal.  Rather start the rookie and see where we might get.  Would have preferred that Kaepernick did not opt out and he could have started this season...see if Shanny could have worked with him. 

    I support his desire to effect change but I also know that the owners have the right to choose to sign who they want and they may not want someone who impacts fans negatively if he is not going to be a long term starter.  This is why GB could be interesting....

    Well... I don't think anybody was defending Hoyer. I think people were defending his production when you were puking all over him. When he passed for 332 and 2... you said, "Kap would do better." Just last week he passed for 350 and 2 on the road.

    I'm not suggesting Hoyer is going to the Hall of Fame, but to suggest 'Kap would do better' in the face of that type of production is hardly being objective.

    To be fair... this past week... you'd have an argument though! 

    * If GB signed Kap I'd be shocked. If he hadn't taken this additional step... he might have gotten a look, but I feel he's effectively placed a gun to the NFL's head. I don't think the response will be favourable.
    What people who looked at the stat line were missing was what those of us watching the games saw....his passes were checkdowns and single read, short patterns.  That is not an NFL QB, and certainly not one whose coaching staff trusts.  332 yards and 2 TDs can still represent severely limited QB play. 
    Kaepernick would have won one of these games where they have lost an NFL record 5 in a row.  And...I'm a 49ers fan, I don't need to be objective.  I have a dog in this fight (not like someone who is just stirring the pot for the sake of keeping a discussion going) and I have opinions that I believe to be well founded. 
    Hey, could be wrong!  Been wrong many times before...but him having a good yardage total for a game, and 2 TDs for a game, doesn't mean that he is an NFL QB.  Hoyer is what I said he was....and that is not an NFL caliber starting QB.  Not sure he would start in Canada...

    Thing is, Kaep opted out so there is no reason for the 49ers to have thought about trying to bring him back.  If he wanted to be there, he would have. 

    'Stirring the pot for the sake of keeping the discussion going'.

    Sorry for that. I never realized this was an agreement thread.
    No apologies needed, sarcastic or not.  We just have a difference of opinion on discussion here.  The purpose (to me) is to share what i believe in and read what others believe to see if that impacts what I was thinking.  I am not inclined to carry on discussions with people playing devil's advocate just for fun.  I find it to be frustrating to be disagreed with, just for disagreement's sake.

    Why I am not very active in AMT.  Seems how I feel is not how many others feel, and that is OK.

    This topic interests me more than some others, however.

    But here's the thing: I'm not wasting my time 'playing devil's advocate for fun'. I'm speaking from my belief set just as you are. At the end of the day... our opposing viewpoints clashing with each other is the value in the exercise. Go ahead and challenge my thought process- I might just end up changing my viewpoint and if I don't... well at least I've had the opportunity to dissect the issue a bit.

    If I wanted to disagree with people for disagreement's sake... I'd go to the Trump thread and offer the latest tweet folks.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 10,771
    fair enough, I was under the impression it was playing DA.
    Carry on, good people, carry on.
    Rob
    Seattle

    Berkeley 10/31/93,Indio 11/5/93,San Diego 11/7/95,Irvine 6/3/03,LA 7/10/06,Universal City 10/7/09,Long Beach 7/6/11 (EV),Vancouver 9/25/11, Philly 9/2/12,Wrigley 7/19/13,Philly 1 & 2,10/21/13,10/22/13, Cincy 10/1/14, GCF 9/26/15, Philly 1/2 4/28/16, 4/29/16, MSG 1/2 5/1/16, 5/2/16, Fenway2 8/7/16
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 4,128
    49 years ago today.....

    The Black Power Salute That Rocked the 1968 Olympics

    http://time.com/3880999/black-power-salute-tommie-smith-and-john-carlos-at-the-1968-olympics/
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