I was out for lunch with a buddy, and golf was on the big screen. I asked him "do the play the national anthem at the first hole in golf? is Tiger Woods kneeling? nope. why in some sports and not all? right, because they know they aren't recruiting golf fans to the military with false patriotism. wrong demographic".
It wasn’t typical for NFL players to stand for the national anthem until 2009—before then, it was customary for players to stay in the locker room as the anthem played. A 2015 congressional report revealed that the Department of Defense had paid $5.4 million to NFL teams between 2011 and 2014 to stage on-field patriotic ceremonies; the National Guard shelled out $6.7 million for similar displays between 2013 and 2015.
The NFL had a huge backlash of that and they gave money back, there are articles on it.
I was PISSED about the NFL taking that money. More pissed that money was changing hands in the show of it.
I understand that there are many injustices that should be addressed and delt with. I get that. I just think this whole demonstrating thing during the National Anthem is perhaps not the best place to bring whatever your cause is forward by kneeling or locking arms. Why not let the anthom be just that, the anthom for 2 minutes. 2 minutes of unity in a divided country. Protest or support whatever cause you want on your own time. Just play the game. Off the field, why not bring up any cause that you want, make t shirts, bumper stickers, slogans, be active, and I bet a lot of people would support whatever cause they are for, or fighting against. And this locking arms thing that Aaron Rodgers wanted all the fans to participate in at Lambeau Field turns out in his mind anyway was all about sticking it to Donald Trump. Had nothing to do with Kapernick's original protest. I don't like Trump myself. So is every week going to display a protest protesting different things? Turns out, most in attendance at Lambeau Field did not lock arms. And there was a lot of people chanting USA, USA. So I don't know. If the people who choose to remove their hats, and place a hand over their hearts instead of joining arms now the bad guys? It is true stories like this one depicted in the song Sullivan by Caroline's Spine that the Star Spangled Banner is intended to honor and remember. Not individuals individual problems with society. The Star Spangled Banner was meant to unite us for 2 minutes despite our differences.
Here's a good toon anyway. https://youtu.be/Zi8wMWInVFs I am tuned in to what's going on in the world. I don't turn a blind eye to the crap that goes on. I watch sports and listen to music to temporarily escape from politics and the injustices that go on.
Here is a poem written and performed by a cowboy friend of mine, who I worked for on an Arizona cattle ranch in 1995. Chris Issacs. Who has been a cattle rancher & became a really good poet. Has won several awards from the Academy of Western Artists. Before I knew him he was a Marine. Served during but not in Viet Nam. This is a poem he wrote about a wonderful Navajo, who was among many things, an outstanding bull rider in the rodeo. Got sent to Viet Nam but didn't make it back. Read, or just have a listen, and ponder. https://blog.cowboypoetry.com/category/poems/michael-bia-by-chris-isaacs/ The poem is called Michael Bia https://youtu.be/k3VItICRwSo http://www.vvmf.org/Wall-of-Faces/3911/MICHAEL-H-BIA It tears me up a little every time I read or hear this.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,711
I am not anti Kaepernick I Am pro Kaepernick in particular for what he's doing with his money kudos. The whole NFL Now last week was kneeling & Locking arms because the SOB Trump had to run his mouth in Alabama. Last week's league-wide protesting was all about Trump. I just don't think the anthem at these games is where you make your statements. The Anthem is where we lay down your differences for 2 minutes and honor the flag and for what it actually stands for. The American flag does not represent oppression, never has. Operssion occurs, but it is NOT what America stands for. America is about liberty and freedom. The Anthem is meant to honor the men and women who fought for this country so that we would not be oppressed. Unfortunately there's still a lot of work that still needs to be done.
I am not anti Kaepernick I Am pro Kaepernick in particular for what he's doing with his money kudos. The whole NFL Now last week was kneeling & Locking arms because the SOB Trump had to run his mouth in Alabama. Last week's league-wide protesting was all about Trump. I just don't think the anthem at these games is where you make your statements. The Anthem is where we lay down your differences for 2 minutes and honor the flag and for what it actually stands for. The American flag does not represent oppression, never has. Operssion occurs, but it is NOT what America stands for. America is about liberty and freedom. The Anthem is meant to honor the men and women who fought for this country so that we would not be oppressed. Unfortunately there's still a lot of work that still needs to be done.
That is what your romanticized version of what America is. If you're a minority that definitely isn't the case or a woman for that matter.
Heck the USA wasn't a democracy until 1920 when women were allowed to vote.
I am not anti Kaepernick I Am pro Kaepernick in particular for what he's doing with his money kudos. The whole NFL Now last week was kneeling & Locking arms because the SOB Trump had to run his mouth in Alabama. Last week's league-wide protesting was all about Trump. I just don't think the anthem at these games is where you make your statements. The Anthem is where we lay down your differences for 2 minutes and honor the flag and for what it actually stands for. The American flag does not represent oppression, never has. Operssion occurs, but it is NOT what America stands for. America is about liberty and freedom. The Anthem is meant to honor the men and women who fought for this country so that we would not be oppressed. Unfortunately there's still a lot of work that still needs to be done.
That is what your romanticized version of what America is. If you're a minority that definitely isn't the case or a woman for that matter.
Heck the USA wasn't a democracy until 1920 when women were allowed to vote.
True, America was built with the help of and on the oppression of every minority we could utilize. If they didn't work for us, lay with us or abide by us, they were subsequently slaughtered.
I am not anti Kaepernick I Am pro Kaepernick in particular for what he's doing with his money kudos. The whole NFL Now last week was kneeling & Locking arms because the SOB Trump had to run his mouth in Alabama. Last week's league-wide protesting was all about Trump. I just don't think the anthem at these games is where you make your statements. The Anthem is where we lay down your differences for 2 minutes and honor the flag and for what it actually stands for. The American flag does not represent oppression, never has. Operssion occurs, but it is NOT what America stands for. America is about liberty and freedom. The Anthem is meant to honor the men and women who fought for this country so that we would not be oppressed. Unfortunately there's still a lot of work that still needs to be done.
That is what your romanticized version of what America is. If you're a minority that definitely isn't the case or a woman for that matter.
Heck the USA wasn't a democracy until 1920 when women were allowed to vote.
You disagree with with just about anything I say. So whatever.
I am not anti Kaepernick I Am pro Kaepernick in particular for what he's doing with his money kudos. The whole NFL Now last week was kneeling & Locking arms because the SOB Trump had to run his mouth in Alabama. Last week's league-wide protesting was all about Trump. I just don't think the anthem at these games is where you make your statements. The Anthem is where we lay down your differences for 2 minutes and honor the flag and for what it actually stands for. The American flag does not represent oppression, never has. Operssion occurs, but it is NOT what America stands for. America is about liberty and freedom. The Anthem is meant to honor the men and women who fought for this country so that we would not be oppressed. Unfortunately there's still a lot of work that still needs to be done.
That is what your romanticized version of what America is. If you're a minority that definitely isn't the case or a woman for that matter.
Heck the USA wasn't a democracy until 1920 when women were allowed to vote.
You disagree with with just about anything I say. So whatever.
Thoughtful response. I'll add this: (1) the American flag represents oppression in many parts of the world where Americans have been oppressive, and (2) if America is about liberty and freedom, then surely it can stand a little free speech.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I am not anti Kaepernick I Am pro Kaepernick in particular for what he's doing with his money kudos. The whole NFL Now last week was kneeling & Locking arms because the SOB Trump had to run his mouth in Alabama. Last week's league-wide protesting was all about Trump. I just don't think the anthem at these games is where you make your statements. The Anthem is where we lay down your differences for 2 minutes and honor the flag and for what it actually stands for. The American flag does not represent oppression, never has. Operssion occurs, but it is NOT what America stands for. America is about liberty and freedom. The Anthem is meant to honor the men and women who fought for this country so that we would not be oppressed. Unfortunately there's still a lot of work that still needs to be done.
That is what your romanticized version of what America is. If you're a minority that definitely isn't the case or a woman for that matter.
Heck the USA wasn't a democracy until 1920 when women were allowed to vote.
You disagree with with just about anything I say. So whatever.
Thoughtful response. I'll add this: (1) the American flag represents oppression in many parts of the world where Americans have been oppressive, and (2) if America is about liberty and freedom, then surely it can stand a little free speech.
I am not anti Kaepernick I Am pro Kaepernick in particular for what he's doing with his money kudos. The whole NFL Now last week was kneeling & Locking arms because the SOB Trump had to run his mouth in Alabama. Last week's league-wide protesting was all about Trump. I just don't think the anthem at these games is where you make your statements. The Anthem is where we lay down your differences for 2 minutes and honor the flag and for what it actually stands for. The American flag does not represent oppression, never has. Operssion occurs, but it is NOT what America stands for. America is about liberty and freedom. The Anthem is meant to honor the men and women who fought for this country so that we would not be oppressed. Unfortunately there's still a lot of work that still needs to be done.
That is what your romanticized version of what America is. If you're a minority that definitely isn't the case or a woman for that matter.
Heck the USA wasn't a democracy until 1920 when women were allowed to vote.
You disagree with with just about anything I say. So whatever.
Thoughtful response. I'll add this: (1) the American flag represents oppression in many parts of the world where Americans have been oppressive, and (2) if America is about liberty and freedom, then surely it can stand a little free speech.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,620
Hoyer was an abomination again yesterday. I wish Kaepernick had not opted out of his contract and was still the QB of the 49ers. They have not scored a TD in 3 out of 4 games and are a total embarrassment at the QB position. (This is the part where non-football knowledgeable fans point out that he has completed 58% of his passes for 858 yards. (That is on pace for 3400+ yards!)
Dogshit. When he is restricted to throwing underneath and wheel routes because he is a QB not ready for NFL talent, this is not good enough. 2 TDs, 4 INTs, He has rushed 3 times in 4 games for 7 yards. He did take 13 sacks & fumble 1x. He drops back, looks at shallow routes and if he cannot find anyone, he throws it away or takes a sack. In the event he tries to air it out, he generally throws a ball that the WR has little chance at.
Sorry, Kaep haters, but this is far worse than Kaep was last year & Hoyer has better coaching, better WR, better TE, and a better Defense out there. OL remains to be seen, I would say about the same.
The love he receives is the love that is saved
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Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,772
edited October 2017
Fox Sports: We Will No Longer Air National Anthem Before NFL Games
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,620
If you don't show the silent protests, the issues being protested will no longer be issues. Makes perfect sense to me, surprised they didn't do that this weekend. Kind of a brilliant move (again) by Trump. Distract from the issue, make it go away. Sheesh.
I am not anti Kaepernick I Am pro Kaepernick in particular for what he's doing with his money kudos. The whole NFL Now last week was kneeling & Locking arms because the SOB Trump had to run his mouth in Alabama. Last week's league-wide protesting was all about Trump. I just don't think the anthem at these games is where you make your statements. The Anthem is where we lay down your differences for 2 minutes and honor the flag and for what it actually stands for. The American flag does not represent oppression, never has. Operssion occurs, but it is NOT what America stands for. America is about liberty and freedom. The Anthem is meant to honor the men and women who fought for this country so that we would not be oppressed. Unfortunately there's still a lot of work that still needs to be done.
That is what your romanticized version of what America is. If you're a minority that definitely isn't the case or a woman for that matter.
Heck the USA wasn't a democracy until 1920 when women were allowed to vote.
You disagree with with just about anything I say. So whatever.
Thoughtful response. I'll add this: (1) the American flag represents oppression in many parts of the world where Americans have been oppressive, and (2) if America is about liberty and freedom, then surely it can stand a little free speech.
No I do not have a problem with free speech. And in terms of thoughtfulness go back and read the poem that I posted by Chris Isaacs about Michael Bia. If some football player decided to run around the field waving a Confederate flag during the national anthem, wearing Confederate socks, how would that go over? It would be a stupid ass terrible thing to do and I would totally condemn it. But would you still apply your same Free Speech argument? Or do we have to take etiquette into consideration?
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,620
They pretended concussions were not an issue for a long time as well. All part of the program!
The love he receives is the love that is saved
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,620
I am not anti Kaepernick I Am pro Kaepernick in particular for what he's doing with his money kudos. The whole NFL Now last week was kneeling & Locking arms because the SOB Trump had to run his mouth in Alabama. Last week's league-wide protesting was all about Trump. I just don't think the anthem at these games is where you make your statements. The Anthem is where we lay down your differences for 2 minutes and honor the flag and for what it actually stands for. The American flag does not represent oppression, never has. Operssion occurs, but it is NOT what America stands for. America is about liberty and freedom. The Anthem is meant to honor the men and women who fought for this country so that we would not be oppressed. Unfortunately there's still a lot of work that still needs to be done.
That is what your romanticized version of what America is. If you're a minority that definitely isn't the case or a woman for that matter.
Heck the USA wasn't a democracy until 1920 when women were allowed to vote.
You disagree with with just about anything I say. So whatever.
Thoughtful response. I'll add this: (1) the American flag represents oppression in many parts of the world where Americans have been oppressive, and (2) if America is about liberty and freedom, then surely it can stand a little free speech.
No I do not have a problem with free speech. And in terms of thoughtfulness go back and read the poem that I posted by Chris Isaacs about Michael Bia. If some football player decided to run around the field waving a Confederate flag during the national anthem, wearing Confederate socks, how would that go over? It would be a stupid ass terrible thing to do and I would totally condemn it. But would you still apply your same Free Speech argument? Or do we have to take etiquette into consideration?
If you are comparing that scenario (I agree with you that people would bug out) to Kaepernick sitting and then kneeling, I think it is not a very good comparison. I get your point but think your scenarios are apples and oranges. If Kaepernick ran around and was waving some alternative flag while the anthem was being performed that might match up.
tough call. from a TV perspective if you are losing viewers because of the protest and showing the Anthem and protests then it's hard to argue against them moving away from it. If you think they are doing it purely to silence the message then i would agree not showing it would be wrong. Being they are Fox my sense would tell me they are probably doing it to silence the message.
well if Fox won't air it, then Trump will have nothing to tweet about except rocket man and his incredible leadership and how Puerto Rico is thriving again.
"Personally, I find it a little peculiar that we have to play the national anthem before any sporting event. All it really shows is how insecure we are as a nation that we have to display our love of country
in this obsessive manner. Same with congressmen and their stupid flag
lapel pins, or the flag in front of Denny’s chain restaurants. Are
eaters of the “lumberjack slam” so disoriented when they leave the place
that they need to be reminded what country they’re in? “Oh, look hon, were in the USA after all….”
-James Howard Kunstler
I personally always feel like people singing the anthem before games is mostly just a way for the crowd to kind of feel connected as a group, like sharing a moment that we can all participate in, and I've always appreciated that aspect of it. I have no problem with the anthem being sung, but only because it's fun and makes a large crowd feel closer to one another. Thousands of people singing together is a positive thing. A social benefit, not anything really connected to extreme nationalism ... but again, I'm speaking from a Canadian point of view. I gather that it is much more about flag waving nationalism in the US.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
can we get rid of god bless america during the 7th inning stretch as well? that didn't used to be a thing until recently,either
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
can we get rid of god bless america during the 7th inning stretch as well? that didn't used to be a thing until recently,either
that started after 9/11 and I believe, other than special days like July 4th, only the Yankees still do it every game. I believe they have everyone do it during the playoffs as well.
can we get rid of god bless america during the 7th inning stretch as well? that didn't used to be a thing until recently,either
that started after 9/11 and I believe, other than special days like July 4th, only the Yankees still do it every game. I believe they have everyone do it during the playoffs as well.
they do it at every game I've been to recently. Yankees must be the only ones who televise it?
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
can we get rid of god bless america during the 7th inning stretch as well? that didn't used to be a thing until recently,either
that started after 9/11 and I believe, other than special days like July 4th, only the Yankees still do it every game. I believe they have everyone do it during the playoffs as well.
I think most teams do it on Sundays. The Twins do.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
The military must be concerned. American sporting events are probably their greatest propaganda vehicles after actual war. I wonder how they're going to compensate?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
I was PISSED about the NFL taking that money. More pissed that money was changing hands in the show of it.
Protest or support whatever cause you want on your own time. Just play the game.
Off the field, why not bring up any cause that you want, make t shirts, bumper stickers, slogans, be active, and I bet a lot of people would support whatever cause they are for, or fighting against. And this locking arms thing that Aaron Rodgers wanted all the fans to participate in at Lambeau Field turns out in his mind anyway was all about sticking it to Donald Trump. Had nothing to do with Kapernick's original protest. I don't like Trump myself. So is every week going to display a protest protesting different things?
Turns out, most in attendance at Lambeau Field did not lock arms. And there was a lot of people chanting USA, USA. So I don't know. If the people who choose to remove their hats, and place a hand over their hearts instead of joining arms now the bad guys?
It is true stories like this one depicted in the song Sullivan by Caroline's Spine that the Star Spangled Banner is intended to honor and remember. Not individuals individual problems with society.
The Star Spangled Banner was meant to unite us for 2 minutes despite our differences.
I am tuned in to what's going on in the world. I don't turn a blind eye to the crap that goes on.
I watch sports and listen to music to temporarily escape from politics and the injustices that go on.
Before I knew him he was a Marine. Served during but not in Viet Nam.
This is a poem he wrote about a wonderful Navajo, who was among many things, an outstanding bull rider in the rodeo. Got sent to Viet Nam but didn't make it back. Read, or just have a listen, and ponder.
https://blog.cowboypoetry.com/category/poems/michael-bia-by-chris-isaacs/
The poem is called Michael Bia
http://www.vvmf.org/Wall-of-Faces/3911/MICHAEL-H-BIA
It tears me up a little every time I read or hear this.
Excellent!
Heck the USA wasn't a democracy until 1920 when women were allowed to vote.
(This is the part where non-football knowledgeable fans point out that he has completed 58% of his passes for 858 yards. (That is on pace for 3400+ yards!)
Dogshit. When he is restricted to throwing underneath and wheel routes because he is a QB not ready for NFL talent, this is not good enough.
2 TDs, 4 INTs,
He has rushed 3 times in 4 games for 7 yards.
He did take 13 sacks & fumble 1x.
He drops back, looks at shallow routes and if he cannot find anyone, he throws it away or takes a sack.
In the event he tries to air it out, he generally throws a ball that the WR has little chance at.
Sorry, Kaep haters, but this is far worse than Kaep was last year & Hoyer has better coaching, better WR, better TE, and a better Defense out there. OL remains to be seen, I would say about the same.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fox-sports-national-anthem-nfl-games_us_59d1a81de4b05f005d35122c
Your thoughts?
Makes perfect sense to me, surprised they didn't do that this weekend.
Kind of a brilliant move (again) by Trump. Distract from the issue, make it go away.
Sheesh.
If some football player decided to run around the field waving a Confederate flag during the national anthem, wearing Confederate socks, how would that go over? It would be a stupid ass terrible thing to do and I would totally condemn it. But would you still apply your same Free Speech argument? Or do we have to take etiquette into consideration?
All part of the program!
www.headstonesband.com
I like it. Hopefully they will stop airing the military infomercial that takes place at the beginning of games as well.
www.headstonesband.com
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin