I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.
I will also note that I never said he was admirable. I think his cause is real and I think he has every right to express his opinion the way he did. I also don't think he was being mildly disrespectful to anyone in the military, past or present. If you want to take that as admirable, be my guest.
Well forgive me. You did seem to be saying something about him that wasn't exactly critical.
Is a sports figure center stage the only person with a license to express themselves the way they want? What if half the crowd wants to sit in protest as well? Is anything worthy of a collective level of respect? Or has it simply come down to choices which everyone is free to make for themselves regardless of any circumstances?
I already said that I am fine with anyone who has a reasonable issue with something, is able to clearly describe what that issue is, why they feel their actions are important and does so in a peaceful manner.
“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”
Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.
What was your term? Utter nonsense?
You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.
So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills? We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?
Oh my Gawd.
I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.
No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it". Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.
Even guys with phony patriotism has the same right to criticize. I'm not sure what this argument has turned into.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”
Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.
What was your term? Utter nonsense?
You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.
So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills? We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?
Oh my Gawd.
I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.
No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it". Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.
Tell that to the grey haired guy in the wheelchair watching the event.
“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”
Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.
What was your term? Utter nonsense?
You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.
So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills? We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?
Oh my Gawd.
I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.
No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it". Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.
Freedom of speech is something that protects us from government censorship. Don't confuse that with the freedom to do or say anything you want, any time you want, anywhere you want. We don't have that freedom, nor should we. Hell, this place is a good example. You are clearly not allowed to say certain things, and you agree to that when you sign up.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”
Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.
What was your term? Utter nonsense?
You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.
So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills? We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?
Oh my Gawd.
I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.
No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it". Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.
Tell that to the grey haired guy in the wheelchair watching the event.
What about the soliders who are currently enlisted coming to his defense?
I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.
I don't know if you follow football, but if you do, you'd know this looks more like one last Stand. His career was effectively over before this.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”
Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.
What was your term? Utter nonsense?
You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.
So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills? We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?
Oh my Gawd.
I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.
No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it". Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.
Even guys with phony patriotism has the same right to criticize. I'm not sure what this argument has turned into.
I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.
His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.
This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.
Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.
“I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country,” Kaepernick said. “I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country. And they fight for freedom, they fight for the people, they fight for liberty and justice, for everyone. That’s not happening. People are dying in vain because this country isn’t holding their end of the bargain up.”
Yah. We could tell. The way you sat there... on your fat wallet... snubbing the opportunity to pay respect to the people you say you do.
What was your term? Utter nonsense?
You're off base Cliffy. Sorry, but you are.
So, which forms of criticism and dissent are officially approved by Thirty Bills? We now know that absolute deference must be shown for the Anthem and the flag, what else is off limits? Is one allowed to open their mouth and utter negative thoughts, or is that spitting on the memories of those buried abroad?
Oh my Gawd.
I'm not even sure what to say to this. Nothing is 'off limits'. I'm saying there's a time and place. Clearly you don't think so.
No, I don't think so. I believe in freedom of speech, not freedom of speech as long as nobody get's offended by the timing. "A time and a place" is juat code for "I didn't like it". Obviously outright displays of disrespect are tasteless, but this wasn't that, unless you are way too sensitive about phony patriotism.
Tell that to the grey haired guy in the wheelchair watching the event.
What about the soliders who are currently enlisted coming to his defense?
What about them?
I'm saying there are many more veterans that looked at that act as disrespectful. And I'm sure many if not most of those veterans recognize and respect the social problem.
Tommie Smith and John Carlos made an even more powerful statement during the national anthem at the '68 Olympics. History has shown it to be a positive event.
I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.
His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.
This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.
Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.
Yes, stand up, shut up and get in line, boy, otherwise you're a loser. And never use your platform to stand up for something you believe it.
I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.
His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.
This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.
Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.
Yes, stand up, shut up and get in line, boy, otherwise you're a loser. And never use your platform to stand up for something you believe it.
That's not what I've said.
I've said don't shit all over one platform to promote yours.
I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.
Tommie Smith and John Carlos made an even more powerful statement during the national anthem at the '68 Olympics. History has shown it to be a positive event.
I'm fairly certain history won't be that kind to Kap. There's really no comparison.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.
His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.
This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.
Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.
Yes, stand up, shut up and get in line, boy, otherwise you're a loser. And never use your platform to stand up for something you believe it.
That's not what I've said.
I've said don't shit all over one platform to promote yours.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very concept of protesting, shitting on a platform?
I love how the real reason for him sitting is entirely lost on all.
Unless you're actually Kaepernick, how would you know his motivation. I don't believe for a second he's sincere. He's grasping at his final chance for publicity before he's banished to obscurity for being a shitty quarterback.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I've heard from people close to Kaepernick that he fully expected to be released by the 49ers once everyone became aware of his actions, and he also knew his football career would be in jeopardy. I've also been told Kaepernick would then dedicate his life to one of social activism.
Someone who stands for the national anthem dicking around on their phone, drinking a beer, thinking about the rack on the lady in from of them = Respectful
Sitting for the national anthem because you have issues with the current climate in the country but also express your opinions on the issues and gratitude for the military well = Disrespectful
no those fuckers are disrespectful as well.
i hope he makes the team because i want to see the shit storm when he doesn't stand for the national anthem on 9/11. as a New Yorker Cliffy will that be ok with you?
I'm gray on this issue unlike both sides. Yes, he's right about how corrupt Americans are of late but you can love the country even if you hate corrupt people that run it. I would just explain that I support the country in a press conference but disagree with corrupt individuals like Trumpary raping this country.
That doesn't give a right for Trumphadists to diss him because:
Someone who stands for the national anthem dicking around on their phone, drinking a beer, thinking about the rack on the lady in from of them = Respectful
Sitting for the national anthem because you have issues with the current climate in the country but also express your opinions on the issues and gratitude for the military well = Disrespectful
no those fuckers are disrespectful as well.
i hope he makes the team because i want to see the shit storm when he doesn't stand for the national anthem on 9/11. as a New Yorker Cliffy will that be ok with you?
Someone who stands for the national anthem dicking around on their phone, drinking a beer, thinking about the rack on the lady in from of them = Respectful
Sitting for the national anthem because you have issues with the current climate in the country but also express your opinions on the issues and gratitude for the military well = Disrespectful
no those fuckers are disrespectful as well.
i hope he makes the team because i want to see the shit storm when he doesn't stand for the national anthem on 9/11. as a New Yorker Cliffy will that be ok with you?
Solid and interesting question. I have to think about it. As mentioned, I am not one for manufactured symbolism, but that day is different and perhaps a day that we all understand that and put aside our differences like we did in the days after that day. Perhaps use that day as an example of a time we came together regardless of race, gender, and even to an extent religion.
I am not here saying he or any other protester is above criticism. I never have. Just like I have the right to bash that numb nut, Schilling. My point is largely that he is not being disrespectful to the military in how he is bringing attention to a very real problem.
I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.
His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.
This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.
Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.
Yes, stand up, shut up and get in line, boy, otherwise you're a loser. And never use your platform to stand up for something you believe it.
That's not what I've said.
I've said don't shit all over one platform to promote yours.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very concept of protesting, shitting on a platform?
Well in this case... misdirected.
Did you see what I had written regarding his refrain from using his visibility to promote his cause with arm bands or helmet stickers?
Seems to me could have made his statement in bold and dramatic fashion without being so disrespectful... albeit at a cost. I guess he thought his money was more important though- better to snub the anthem and disrespect those that should be honoured instead of making any personal sacrifice for his deeply rooted values (Tillman gave his life for his beliefs).
I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.
His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.
This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.
Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.
Yes, stand up, shut up and get in line, boy, otherwise you're a loser. And never use your platform to stand up for something you believe it.
That's not what I've said.
I've said don't shit all over one platform to promote yours.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very concept of protesting, shitting on a platform?
Well in this case... misdirected.
Did you see what I had written regarding his refrain from using his visibility to promote his cause with arm bands or helmet stickers?
Seems to me could have made his statement in bold and dramatic fashion without being so disrespectful... albeit at a cost. I guess he thought his money was more important though- better to snub the anthem and disrespect those that should be honoured instead of making any personal sacrifice for his deeply rooted values (Tillman gave his life for his beliefs).
But with any form of protest isn't the most controversial, while still peaceful, that gets the most attention?
I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.
His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.
This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.
Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.
Yes, stand up, shut up and get in line, boy, otherwise you're a loser. And never use your platform to stand up for something you believe it.
That's not what I've said.
I've said don't shit all over one platform to promote yours.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very concept of protesting, shitting on a platform?
Well in this case... misdirected.
Did you see what I had written regarding his refrain from using his visibility to promote his cause with arm bands or helmet stickers?
Seems to me could have made his statement in bold and dramatic fashion without being so disrespectful... albeit at a cost. I guess he thought his money was more important though- better to snub the anthem and disrespect those that should be honoured instead of making any personal sacrifice for his deeply rooted values (Tillman gave his life for his beliefs).
But with any form of protest isn't the most controversial, while still peaceful, that gets the most attention?
I agree. He picked a controversial way to protest knowing that it would get attention. That was his right. People gave him attention with negative criticism of his actions. That was their right. This seems to have played out as expected.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
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I'm gray on this issue unlike both sides. Yes, he's right about how corrupt Americans are of late but you can love the country even if you hate corrupt people that run it. I would just explain that I support the country in a press conference but disagree with corrupt individuals like Trumpary raping this country.
That doesn't give a right for Trumphadists to diss him because:
In fairness to Trump, he ate a deep dish pizza at Lou Malnati's the afternoon of this picture and had a serious case of the Lou's....resulting in his being on the toilet all day.
Kap stinks now & I question his timing. If he does go on to become a legitimate activist I am happy to take back this judgement and clap for him.
I think what he did was admirable. It took huge balls. He is risking his career and reputation to stand up for something he believes in. I know I probably wouldn't have the guts to do the same thing.
His career was basically over regardless and his reputation was garbage to begin with.
This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.
Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.
Yes, stand up, shut up and get in line, boy, otherwise you're a loser. And never use your platform to stand up for something you believe it.
That's not what I've said.
I've said don't shit all over one platform to promote yours.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the very concept of protesting, shitting on a platform?
Well in this case... misdirected.
Did you see what I had written regarding his refrain from using his visibility to promote his cause with arm bands or helmet stickers?
Seems to me could have made his statement in bold and dramatic fashion without being so disrespectful... albeit at a cost. I guess he thought his money was more important though- better to snub the anthem and disrespect those that should be honoured instead of making any personal sacrifice for his deeply rooted values (Tillman gave his life for his beliefs).
But with any form of protest isn't the most controversial, while still peaceful, that gets the most attention?
I wouldn't say 'controversial' as much as I'd say 'impacfful'.
I'd have respect for him, as I've said, if he'd have stuck a BLM sticker on the side of his helmet versus crapping on his country and the services of those that died trying to make it great.
The image of him under center with a BLM sticker on the side of his helmet could have been iconic. The image of a brooding washout sitting during the national anthem represents a cheap ploy and a call for attention (more to him than to the cause in my opinion).
I'm gray on this issue unlike both sides. Yes, he's right about how corrupt Americans are of late but you can love the country even if you hate corrupt people that run it. I would just explain that I support the country in a press conference but disagree with corrupt individuals like Trumpary raping this country.
That doesn't give a right for Trumphadists to diss him because:
In fairness to Trump, he ate a deep dish pizza at Lou Malnati's the afternoon of this picture and had a serious case of the Lou's....resulting in his being on the toilet all day.
Kap stinks now & I question his timing. If he does go on to become a legitimate activist I am happy to take back this judgement and clap for him.
You can tell he's cutting one right in that moment.
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we will find a way, we will find our place
we will find a way, we will find our place
This was nothing more than a loser being a loser. As I said... if he gets involved and puts his money where his mouth is after he no longer has an NFL job... I'll pay my respect. Until such a time... I stand behind what I've said.
Why no BLM wristbands or patches or stickers on his uniform? To me... that would have been significant. I think I know why though. Fines. Money out of pocket. Far less costly to sit during the national anthem than to play with a symbol of your beliefs on your helmet.
I'm saying there are many more veterans that looked at that act as disrespectful. And I'm sure many if not most of those veterans recognize and respect the social problem.
I've said don't shit all over one platform to promote yours.
we will find a way, we will find our place
http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/08/nfl-executives-call-colin-kaepernick-traitor-compare-him-rae-carruth
we will find a way, we will find our place
i hope he makes the team because i want to see the shit storm when he doesn't stand for the national anthem on 9/11. as a New Yorker Cliffy will that be ok with you?
That doesn't give a right for Trumphadists to diss him because:
I am not here saying he or any other protester is above criticism. I never have. Just like I have the right to bash that numb nut, Schilling. My point is largely that he is not being disrespectful to the military in how he is bringing attention to a very real problem.
Did you see what I had written regarding his refrain from using his visibility to promote his cause with arm bands or helmet stickers?
Seems to me could have made his statement in bold and dramatic fashion without being so disrespectful... albeit at a cost. I guess he thought his money was more important though- better to snub the anthem and disrespect those that should be honoured instead of making any personal sacrifice for his deeply rooted values (Tillman gave his life for his beliefs).
Kap stinks now & I question his timing.
If he does go on to become a legitimate activist I am happy to take back this judgement and clap for him.
I'd have respect for him, as I've said, if he'd have stuck a BLM sticker on the side of his helmet versus crapping on his country and the services of those that died trying to make it great.
The image of him under center with a BLM sticker on the side of his helmet could have been iconic. The image of a brooding washout sitting during the national anthem represents a cheap ploy and a call for attention (more to him than to the cause in my opinion).
Poor guy.