Something about teacher's pay...

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  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 8,857
    edited June 23
    mcgruff10 said:
    pjhawks said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    How much does a teacher make per month in the US on average - a teacher for 16-19 year olds. What we call the gymnasium, and I guess you call college?
    I am on step 14 in my district (teaching 17 years overall but they didn't take any of my years) and make just under $70,000. My wife in on step 15 (19 years overall and same thing) and makes $73k.  It depends on the district and state.    After 21 years I'll "top" out making around $102k.  We both teach 8th grade across the hall from each other lol.  
    $70k and $73k for 9 months of work - that's pretty good if you ask me.
    Did you care to answer Scruffy's questions regarding your profession and salary?
    Del, I don't think he's gonna answer.
    I figured. Took a cheap shot and ran.
    jeezus how is saying $70k for 9 months of work a cheap shot? 

    and no i won't mention my salary or profession.  let's just say it's less than $70k for 9 months.  $70k for 9 months equates to $93k for 12 months.  i don't make nearly that much.  and i'm good with that.
    Post edited by pjhawks on
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 16,715
    I work for ten months not 9. I never got the 12 month comparison because I don’t get paid for the summer. 
    Why won’t you state your profession or salary?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 9,289
    mcgruff10 said:
    I work for ten months not 9. I never got the 12 month comparison because I don’t get paid for the summer. 
    Why won’t you state your profession or salary?
    So as a teacher, you work for 10 months but still 40h per week?

    Here teachers work 45h per week, to make it even out with the longer summer vacation. So you still have 12 months of work, and your 4-5 weeks of paid vacation. 
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 10,485
    mcgruff10 said:
    I work for ten months not 9. I never got the 12 month comparison because I don’t get paid for the summer. 
    Why won’t you state your profession or salary?
    The 12 month comparison is made cause it shows your effective salary across a year based on the number of months you work.  Thing to compare a 12 month job and a 10 month job...seems like a fair way to do it, no?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 16,715
    mcgruff10 said:
    I work for ten months not 9. I never got the 12 month comparison because I don’t get paid for the summer. 
    Why won’t you state your profession or salary?
    The 12 month comparison is made cause it shows your effective salary across a year based on the number of months you work.  Thing to compare a 12 month job and a 10 month job...seems like a fair way to do it, no?
    I m mixed on it because I ll never work 12 months and don’t get paid for July and August. I mean I guess I get it but not really lol. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 10,485
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    I work for ten months not 9. I never got the 12 month comparison because I don’t get paid for the summer. 
    Why won’t you state your profession or salary?
    The 12 month comparison is made cause it shows your effective salary across a year based on the number of months you work.  Thing to compare a 12 month job and a 10 month job...seems like a fair way to do it, no?
    I m mixed on it because I ll never work 12 months and don’t get paid for July and August. I mean I guess I get it but not really lol. 
    I guess you could just compare salaries and vacation days/holidays and determine a value for those.

    But to compare you gotta find a way to equalize.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • pjhawks said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    pjhawks said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    How much does a teacher make per month in the US on average - a teacher for 16-19 year olds. What we call the gymnasium, and I guess you call college?
    I am on step 14 in my district (teaching 17 years overall but they didn't take any of my years) and make just under $70,000. My wife in on step 15 (19 years overall and same thing) and makes $73k.  It depends on the district and state.    After 21 years I'll "top" out making around $102k.  We both teach 8th grade across the hall from each other lol.  
    $70k and $73k for 9 months of work - that's pretty good if you ask me.
    Did you care to answer Scruffy's questions regarding your profession and salary?
    Del, I don't think he's gonna answer.
    I figured. Took a cheap shot and ran.
    jeezus how is saying $70k for 9 months of work a cheap shot? 

    and no i won't mention my salary or profession.  let's just say it's less than $70k for 9 months.  $70k for 9 months equates to $93k for 12 months.  i don't make nearly that much.  and i'm good with that.

    Well then let's just say this (from my experience as a teacher in my corner of the world):

    1. It doesn't equate to $93,000 for 12 months. It's $70,000 for the year- paid over 10 or 12 months. You could do that silly math for any job to make it appear to be sweeter than what it truly is. 

    2. Teachers don't work 9 months of the year. If you compared their work year to, say, shift workers... they work more: shift workers typically work something like 4 on and 4 off (so half the year, or 183 days). Teachers are contracted for 185 days.

    3. As documented, teachers don't make 70,000 per year until they've taught for 10 years. So, typically speaking, after going in debt to attend school for a minimum of five years and forgoing any income opportunity for those five years as well... they enter the work force making 50,000 per year (in my area). If you can add... it's after 15 years of training and experience, they make $80,000. 

    Remember that only 50% of teachers get to their 10th year (although this number varies depending on area). I've seen a lot of really good teachers leave the profession.

    4. For some reason, you're reluctant to admit your profession and it's slightly amusing you haven't.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 9,289
    edited June 23
    But he has a full time job, but only work sfor 10 months. If he suddenly would start work for 12 months the pay wouldn't rise like that. So you can't really compare it like that.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,929
    mcgruff10 said:
    How much does a teacher make per month in the US on average - a teacher for 16-19 year olds. What we call the gymnasium, and I guess you call college?
    I am on step 14 in my district (teaching 17 years overall but they didn't take any of my years) and make just under $70,000. My wife in on step 15 (19 years overall and same thing) and makes $73k.  It depends on the district and state.    After 21 years I'll "top" out making around $102k.  We both teach 8th grade across the hall from each other lol.  
    I need to love there. Making just over 50k with 11 years and close to maxed out education, 60 graduate credits. Pay sucks here, the. They take out about $800/month for benefits on top of that. On my tax returns last year my gross pay was something like 35k. With 10 years in.
    And people wonder why teachers are striking here?
  • But he has a full time job, but only work for 10 months. If he suddenly would start work for 12 months the pay wouldn't rise like that. So you can't compare it like that.

    Correct.

    It's the same thing as saying to the shift worker that works 183 days per year (say 12 hours X $30 per hour for $65,000 per year like at the local mine)... "If you worked 200 days a year... you'd make $72,000."

    Except... if shift workers actually did work an extra 17 days per year... it would be paid overtime and a choice.

    Not to mention that in the case of the shift worker... two weeks (sometimes 4 weeks in good situations) of the scheduled days off are paid holidays.

    * And don't get me wrong: I'm not crapping on anyone's right to make a good wage and have a good job. I value everybody's contributions. I'm only doing it to debunk the nonsense that was spouted above this post.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,929
    edited June 23
    brianlux said:
    Does anyone know why teachers are not paid according to the degree of difficulty that the subject they are teaching ... ie a physic teacher is obviously a tougher course to teach and grade than say someone who teaches math for everyday life (this is apparently a subject)?  Just curious. To any teachers out their, I spent 25 years in maintenance at a school board ... how the hell do you not slug some of these kids?  just kidding, but man some of these kids today are wound tight...
    Aren't most physics teachers are paid higher than everyday math teachers.  The reason I would guess that is that I would think most good physics teachers probably work at the high school AP or college level and most math for everyday life teachers are entry level middle or high school. 

    I kind of get what you're saying but then I have to ask, who or what determines which classes are easier to teach?  I wonder if the average math  teacher might have a hard time teaching pottery or would the average art teacher have a hard time teaching biology? 

    It could be argued that if a teacher is doing their best to teach the subject they know best and is a subject they are good at themselves, then they all deserve the same pay.  The only way you could justify paying a teacher more for one subject over another would be if you place a higher value on that subject.  Outside my own interests, that's not a judgement I would make outside my own interests.  We all value different subjects differently and they all help form the character of who we are.

    I might be persuaded to accept the idea that a teacher who is excellent at teaching integrated curriculum.  In fact, I wish most teacher taught integrated curriculum.  To plant a good garden you may use math to determine square footage of a plots, science and nature to understand which plants work best for companion planting and what nutrients are needed for a particular soil, English and writing to create  a journal and write recipes or other garden writing, speech to give a talk on how to build a good compost heap. P.E. (or Yoga) to keep in shape for the hard work and art to make beautiful painted pots for potted plants. And of course music to make your plants grow well:



    Or as Neil Young once said, "It's all one song."

    As for wanting to slug some kid- I've taught or subbed all grades including working for a few years at lower college level and in all those years, yes, there were a few kids that drove me to the brink, but, including my subbing years, I've worked with many hundreds of kids and only felt that way about a small percentage.  I had a class once that was completely made up of kids who were kicked out of their regular classes for "poor behavior".  I figured a lot of that "poor behavior" was just a reaction to some dip shit adults and lousy teachers.  Some of those kids gave me some shit, sure, but a lot of them were super happy to have an adult act like they cared rather than like a fucking drill sergeant.  Most of those kids were cool.  The problems always start with the adults, not the kids.  Would you agree?  Did you actually work with kids?
    Very few do that. Almost all that I know of is strictly based on experience and education. A 10-year PE teacher makes the same as a 10-year physics.
    A few do exist do pay per performance, but there’s so many variables no one likes that. Naturally honors classes have higher scores and usually fewer behavior problems. Low level math classes have all the problem kids and low test scores, so you get financial bonus for have the “easy” classes and get penalized for have the tough ones. Makes no sense.
     And I know of one that bases it based on difficulty to fill, so basically number of applicants.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 25,017
    ^^^Thank you for editing your post, Mace.  I couldn't make heads nor tails out of it at first, lol!
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,929
    brianlux said:
    ^^^Thank you for editing your post, Mace.  I couldn't make heads nor tails out of it at first, lol!
    I swear I do t drink this early in the morning.
  • mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    ^^^Thank you for editing your post, Mace.  I couldn't make heads nor tails out of it at first, lol!
    I swear I do t drink this early in the morning.

    Oh shit... that's your problem: you do t drink early in the morning (whatever the hell that is?)!
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,929
    Haha, don’t drink. Now no one believes me.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 25,017
    I'm going to go do t drink right now because that sounds like fun!

    LOL, sorry Mace.  Couldn't resist!
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 5,546
    I blame it on the damn unions
    And Hillary of course
    Oh what the hell I'll  blame Obama  as well
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 9,289
    So do teachers in the US work more hours to make up for the "free" summer, or do you work 40?
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 16,715
    So do teachers in the US work more hours to make up for the "free" summer, or do you work 40?
    I work 7:05-2:05 five days a week. I don’t know of a school that goes 8 hours a day. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,797
    mcgruff10 said:
    So do teachers in the US work more hours to make up for the "free" summer, or do you work 40?
    I work 7:05-2:05 five days a week. I don’t know of a school that goes 8 hours a day. 

    But grading and lesson planning extends beyond those hours, correct?

    My mother was a teacher, ranging from pre-school to college level, so I saw the time she spent into prep and grading. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 9,289
    mcgruff10 said:
    So do teachers in the US work more hours to make up for the "free" summer, or do you work 40?
    I work 7:05-2:05 five days a week. I don’t know of a school that goes 8 hours a day. 
    But you work outside of the classes you're having?
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 16,715
    mcgruff10 said:
    So do teachers in the US work more hours to make up for the "free" summer, or do you work 40?
    I work 7:05-2:05 five days a week. I don’t know of a school that goes 8 hours a day. 
    But you work outside of the classes you're having?
    Yeah of course. I have no clue how many hours  week. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 25,017
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    So do teachers in the US work more hours to make up for the "free" summer, or do you work 40?
    I work 7:05-2:05 five days a week. I don’t know of a school that goes 8 hours a day. 
    But you work outside of the classes you're having?
    Yeah of course. I have no clue how many hours  week. 
    Exactly!  This is the thing i think some people are missing.  It's not like the bell rings and you're done for the day.  And good teachers (and I have no doubt you are a good one, McG) care about their students to the point where it's hard to check out of work mode.  You go home and read and grade papers, etc. but you also spend time mulling over how to help that student who may be having some emotional trauma at home or how to get that angry rebellious kid to focus that energy on something creative or how to get that wall flower to open up a little.  It's not like you just go home and forget about it all.
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • Jason PJason P Posts: 17,246
     =)  =)

    thats is the stuff!  Makes velveeta seem like 10 year aged sharp cheddar from a dairy in Wisconsin.  (I still ate it)
  • OffSheGoes35OffSheGoes35 Posts: 1,208
    I was so poor I thought it was good cheese! Lol
    Always thought the butter sucked though.  =)

  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 10,485
    pjhawks said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    pjhawks said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    How much does a teacher make per month in the US on average - a teacher for 16-19 year olds. What we call the gymnasium, and I guess you call college?
    I am on step 14 in my district (teaching 17 years overall but they didn't take any of my years) and make just under $70,000. My wife in on step 15 (19 years overall and same thing) and makes $73k.  It depends on the district and state.    After 21 years I'll "top" out making around $102k.  We both teach 8th grade across the hall from each other lol.  
    $70k and $73k for 9 months of work - that's pretty good if you ask me.
    Did you care to answer Scruffy's questions regarding your profession and salary?
    Del, I don't think he's gonna answer.
    I figured. Took a cheap shot and ran.
    jeezus how is saying $70k for 9 months of work a cheap shot? 

    and no i won't mention my salary or profession.  let's just say it's less than $70k for 9 months.  $70k for 9 months equates to $93k for 12 months.  i don't make nearly that much.  and i'm good with that.

    Well then let's just say this (from my experience as a teacher in my corner of the world):

    1. It doesn't equate to $93,000 for 12 months. It's $70,000 for the year- paid over 10 or 12 months. You could do that silly math for any job to make it appear to be sweeter than what it truly is. 

    2. Teachers don't work 9 months of the year. If you compared their work year to, say, shift workers... they work more: shift workers typically work something like 4 on and 4 off (so half the year, or 183 days). Teachers are contracted for 185 days.

    3. As documented, teachers don't make 70,000 per year until they've taught for 10 years. So, typically speaking, after going in debt to attend school for a minimum of five years and forgoing any income opportunity for those five years as well... they enter the work force making 50,000 per year (in my area). If you can add... it's after 15 years of training and experience, they make $80,000. 

    Remember that only 50% of teachers get to their 10th year (although this number varies depending on area). I've seen a lot of really good teachers leave the profession.

    4. For some reason, you're reluctant to admit your profession and it's slightly amusing you haven't.
    What shift workers do you know that work 4 on and 4 off 8 hours a day?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 10,485
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    So do teachers in the US work more hours to make up for the "free" summer, or do you work 40?
    I work 7:05-2:05 five days a week. I don’t know of a school that goes 8 hours a day. 
    But you work outside of the classes you're having?
    Yeah of course. I have no clue how many hours  week. 
    Exactly!  This is the thing i think some people are missing.  It's not like the bell rings and you're done for the day.  And good teachers (and I have no doubt you are a good one, McG) care about their students to the point where it's hard to check out of work mode.  You go home and read and grade papers, etc. but you also spend time mulling over how to help that student who may be having some emotional trauma at home or how to get that angry rebellious kid to focus that energy on something creative or how to get that wall flower to open up a little.  It's not like you just go home and forget about it all.
    Do you think other non-teacher jobs aren’t like this? You think you leave and your work is always done? Please
    hippiemom = goodness
  • pjhawks said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    pjhawks said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    How much does a teacher make per month in the US on average - a teacher for 16-19 year olds. What we call the gymnasium, and I guess you call college?
    I am on step 14 in my district (teaching 17 years overall but they didn't take any of my years) and make just under $70,000. My wife in on step 15 (19 years overall and same thing) and makes $73k.  It depends on the district and state.    After 21 years I'll "top" out making around $102k.  We both teach 8th grade across the hall from each other lol.  
    $70k and $73k for 9 months of work - that's pretty good if you ask me.
    Did you care to answer Scruffy's questions regarding your profession and salary?
    Del, I don't think he's gonna answer.
    I figured. Took a cheap shot and ran.
    jeezus how is saying $70k for 9 months of work a cheap shot? 

    and no i won't mention my salary or profession.  let's just say it's less than $70k for 9 months.  $70k for 9 months equates to $93k for 12 months.  i don't make nearly that much.  and i'm good with that.

    Well then let's just say this (from my experience as a teacher in my corner of the world):

    1. It doesn't equate to $93,000 for 12 months. It's $70,000 for the year- paid over 10 or 12 months. You could do that silly math for any job to make it appear to be sweeter than what it truly is. 

    2. Teachers don't work 9 months of the year. If you compared their work year to, say, shift workers... they work more: shift workers typically work something like 4 on and 4 off (so half the year, or 183 days). Teachers are contracted for 185 days.

    3. As documented, teachers don't make 70,000 per year until they've taught for 10 years. So, typically speaking, after going in debt to attend school for a minimum of five years and forgoing any income opportunity for those five years as well... they enter the work force making 50,000 per year (in my area). If you can add... it's after 15 years of training and experience, they make $80,000. 

    Remember that only 50% of teachers get to their 10th year (although this number varies depending on area). I've seen a lot of really good teachers leave the profession.

    4. For some reason, you're reluctant to admit your profession and it's slightly amusing you haven't.
    What shift workers do you know that work 4 on and 4 off 8 hours a day?

    The mill where my father worked and it's 12 hours a day (I never said 8). And many in different industries such as our local mines (2 nights and 2 days).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 10,485
    pjhawks said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    pjhawks said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    How much does a teacher make per month in the US on average - a teacher for 16-19 year olds. What we call the gymnasium, and I guess you call college?
    I am on step 14 in my district (teaching 17 years overall but they didn't take any of my years) and make just under $70,000. My wife in on step 15 (19 years overall and same thing) and makes $73k.  It depends on the district and state.    After 21 years I'll "top" out making around $102k.  We both teach 8th grade across the hall from each other lol.  
    $70k and $73k for 9 months of work - that's pretty good if you ask me.
    Did you care to answer Scruffy's questions regarding your profession and salary?
    Del, I don't think he's gonna answer.
    I figured. Took a cheap shot and ran.
    jeezus how is saying $70k for 9 months of work a cheap shot? 

    and no i won't mention my salary or profession.  let's just say it's less than $70k for 9 months.  $70k for 9 months equates to $93k for 12 months.  i don't make nearly that much.  and i'm good with that.

    Well then let's just say this (from my experience as a teacher in my corner of the world):

    1. It doesn't equate to $93,000 for 12 months. It's $70,000 for the year- paid over 10 or 12 months. You could do that silly math for any job to make it appear to be sweeter than what it truly is. 

    2. Teachers don't work 9 months of the year. If you compared their work year to, say, shift workers... they work more: shift workers typically work something like 4 on and 4 off (so half the year, or 183 days). Teachers are contracted for 185 days.

    3. As documented, teachers don't make 70,000 per year until they've taught for 10 years. So, typically speaking, after going in debt to attend school for a minimum of five years and forgoing any income opportunity for those five years as well... they enter the work force making 50,000 per year (in my area). If you can add... it's after 15 years of training and experience, they make $80,000. 

    Remember that only 50% of teachers get to their 10th year (although this number varies depending on area). I've seen a lot of really good teachers leave the profession.

    4. For some reason, you're reluctant to admit your profession and it's slightly amusing you haven't.
    What shift workers do you know that work 4 on and 4 off 8 hours a day?

    The mill where my father worked and it's 12 hours a day (I never said 8). And many in different industries such as our local mines (2 nights and 2 days).

    The technician shift workers that work where I do - work 12 hours shifts as well...sometimes OT. There are a few different schedules in the different areas, but none get an equal number of days off as days on. And since they work 12 hours already, OT basically means extra days. The do get paid for their OT though of course.

    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 10,485
    Oh and as far as working days, for regular M-F employees, it’s 261 days. Then you take away holidays (this will vary) and vacation (again varies) but for example mine would be 11 & 23. So 227 working days.  And they certainly aren’t a straight 8. Average at least 10 hours a day most likely.

    So based on your 185 day for teachers, they are getting an extra 42 days off each year. Now I know they will work some of those, but no way it’s 42 days.  That’s 2 months of work days.

    Now don’t get me wrong, teacher in some areas, even some whole states are drastically underpaid. The biggest way to judge is retention rate and teacher quality.  And teachers shouldn’t have to spend their own $ on basic classroom items. We need to fund education better in a lot of places. But in a lot of areas, I don’t think trying to argue teachers are underpaid is a really great argument. 
    hippiemom = goodness
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