Something about teacher's pay...

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  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 12,400
    Teachers are underpaid, overworked, overburdened with additional responsibilities, and not given enough respect here in Australia as well. 
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,114
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    Here' what we know about public school teachers.
    They are...  
    Overpaid
    Underworked
     they are all unionized liberal elites
    And are government tools brainwashing our children
    And lazy, don't forget lazy.
    And they all take three month vacations to go to Club Med locations every year.  Every summer, the Caribbean is completely swamped with lazy, overpaid, underworked, liberal elitist (except for McGruff :wink: ), child brainwashing government tools.  It's disgusting!
    Lol!  Besides actually teaching Monday through Friday I worked four other paying jobs this week: Monday i power washed, tues/wed I officiated track meets, wed night I ripped up a hot tub, and tomorrow I get to work as a pirate lol. Good times. 
    Who needs to sleep, right McG?!  Man!  A workin' machine!
    "We are cruelly trapped between what we would like to be and what we actually are."
    -James Baldwin
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.




  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,489
    edited May 5
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    The ironic part is with premiums that high our insurance is still terrible. We can’t afford to go to the doctor because we’d still end up paying so much. If anything major came up I’d likely just have to declare bankruptcy and skip on the bill anyway, I’d be better off without insurance.
    I don't get how the majority of people can afford the insurance, let alone extra costs. So you pay all that and still have to pay out of pocket to see a doctor? Huh? Why? Is that insurance only for when you're so sick and injured you have to go to the hospital? This entire concept, at those rates, actually shocks the fuck out of me. Well, having a private health insurance system at all shocks the fuck out of me - profit comes from not providing the best care or even no care, which is a human rights violation IMO - but this is just worse. How does any kind of insurance cost that much, and why are people willing to pay it or support a system that works like that in any way? This make no sense to me - I'm a bit befuddled.
    A routine dr visit isn’t bad, I think the copay is $30 a visit for a family dr. It’s more for a specialist, $60 a visit I think if it’s someone other than just your family dr. Urgent care, which is where we have to go most of the time because it’s really difficult to get a last minute appointment for a family dr, is $100 a visit. ER is $200 just to walk in the door, and then a copay on top of that can easily bring a short visit for something like blood clots into the thousands.
    Medication is hit or miss, sometimes it’s $10, sometimes $60 or more to fill a prescription. My wife was actually just denied a prescription through insurance, the reason was it’s only available in 90-day prescriptions at the pharmacy but the insurance would only approve a 30-day supply. So we had to go all out of pocket on that.

    the real kick in the nuts is ive learned to always ask for cash prices, sometimes the uninsured cash price is cheaper than the negotiated copay through insurance. My copay on a prescription may be $60, but the regular price is only $40.  So even after all that, sometimes I’m still better off claiming no insurance and just going out of pocket completely. I complained to my insurer about that one time and the response I got was “it’s always a good idea to price check.”
    i mean the whole concept behind insurance and why my combined premiums (what my employer pays + what I pay) is $2000 a month is so that the insurer absorbs the majority of the medical cost and I pay a fraction of it. But that’s not the case much of the time. So what’s the point?
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 7,924
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    The ironic part is with premiums that high our insurance is still terrible. We can’t afford to go to the doctor because we’d still end up paying so much. If anything major came up I’d likely just have to declare bankruptcy and skip on the bill anyway, I’d be better off without insurance.
    I don't get how the majority of people can afford the insurance, let alone extra costs. So you pay all that and still have to pay out of pocket to see a doctor? Huh? Why? Is that insurance only for when you're so sick and injured you have to go to the hospital? This entire concept, at those rates, actually shocks the fuck out of me. Well, having a private health insurance system at all shocks the fuck out of me - profit comes from not providing the best care or even no care, which is a human rights violation IMO - but this is just worse. How does any kind of insurance cost that much, and why are people willing to pay it or support a system that works like that in any way? This make no sense to me - I'm a bit befuddled.
    A routine dr visit isn’t bad, I think the copay is $30 a visit for a family dr. It’s more for a specialist, $60 a visit I think if it’s someone other than just your family dr. Urgent care, which is where we have to go most of the time because it’s really difficult to get a last minute appointment for a family dr, is $100 a visit. ER is $200 just to walk in the door, and then a copay on top of that can easily bring a short visit for something like blood clots into the thousands.
    Medication is hit or miss, sometimes it’s $10, sometimes $60 or more to fill a prescription. My wife was actually just denied a prescription through insurance, the reason was it’s only available in 90-day prescriptions at the pharmacy but the insurance would only approve a 30-day supply. So we had to go all out of pocket on that.

    the real kick in the nuts is ive learned to always ask for cash prices, sometimes the uninsured cash price is cheaper than the negotiated copay through insurance. My copay on a prescription may be $60, but the regular price is only $40.  So even after all that, sometimes I’m still better off claiming no insurance and just going out of pocket completely. I complained to my insurer about that one time and the response I got was “it’s always a good idea to price check.”
    i mean the whole concept behind insurance and why my combined premiums (what my employer pays + what I pay) is $2000 a month is so that the insurer absorbs the majority of the medical cost and I pay a fraction of it. But that’s not the case much of the time. So what’s the point?
    Profit. That’s the point. The USA has a for-profit health care “system”. The capitalistic system that much of the American population says they prefer.  
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 41,657
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    The ironic part is with premiums that high our insurance is still terrible. We can’t afford to go to the doctor because we’d still end up paying so much. If anything major came up I’d likely just have to declare bankruptcy and skip on the bill anyway, I’d be better off without insurance.
    I don't get how the majority of people can afford the insurance, let alone extra costs. So you pay all that and still have to pay out of pocket to see a doctor? Huh? Why? Is that insurance only for when you're so sick and injured you have to go to the hospital? This entire concept, at those rates, actually shocks the fuck out of me. Well, having a private health insurance system at all shocks the fuck out of me - profit comes from not providing the best care or even no care, which is a human rights violation IMO - but this is just worse. How does any kind of insurance cost that much, and why are people willing to pay it or support a system that works like that in any way? This make no sense to me - I'm a bit befuddled.
    A routine dr visit isn’t bad, I think the copay is $30 a visit for a family dr. It’s more for a specialist, $60 a visit I think if it’s someone other than just your family dr. Urgent care, which is where we have to go most of the time because it’s really difficult to get a last minute appointment for a family dr, is $100 a visit. ER is $200 just to walk in the door, and then a copay on top of that can easily bring a short visit for something like blood clots into the thousands.
    Medication is hit or miss, sometimes it’s $10, sometimes $60 or more to fill a prescription. My wife was actually just denied a prescription through insurance, the reason was it’s only available in 90-day prescriptions at the pharmacy but the insurance would only approve a 30-day supply. So we had to go all out of pocket on that.

    the real kick in the nuts is ive learned to always ask for cash prices, sometimes the uninsured cash price is cheaper than the negotiated copay through insurance. My copay on a prescription may be $60, but the regular price is only $40.  So even after all that, sometimes I’m still better off claiming no insurance and just going out of pocket completely. I complained to my insurer about that one time and the response I got was “it’s always a good idea to price check.”
    i mean the whole concept behind insurance and why my combined premiums (what my employer pays + what I pay) is $2000 a month is so that the insurer absorbs the majority of the medical cost and I pay a fraction of it. But that’s not the case much of the time. So what’s the point?
    So when poor/cash poor people get sick and need to see a doctor or go the ER... they just can't, simple as that? Or is that when they have to go to one of those nightmarish county places, and then can walk in without a penny in their pocket? And to those kind of crazy free charity-supported walk-in clinics? I'm just getting those ideas from shows like ER and Grey's Anatomy, lol, so I have no idea if that's really how it is.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 13,259
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    So you pretty much need to get a masters to make any sort of money. By the time you get to the top you d be retired. Lol. Shitty guide
    I think every teacher has to have a Masters in a certain amount of time.

    Teachers?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,114
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    So you pretty much need to get a masters to make any sort of money. By the time you get to the top you d be retired. Lol. Shitty guide
    I think every teacher has to have a Masters in a certain amount of time.

    Teachers?
    Not for most elementary, middle schools and high schools.   College, almost always.
    "We are cruelly trapped between what we would like to be and what we actually are."
    -James Baldwin
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.




  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,489
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    So you pretty much need to get a masters to make any sort of money. By the time you get to the top you d be retired. Lol. Shitty guide
    I think every teacher has to have a Masters in a certain amount of time.

    Teachers?
    it helps with pay, but you only need a credential/license.
    Most credential programs offer a MA program, its usually only a few extra classes to turn a credential into a masters if you do it at the same time. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,489
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    The ironic part is with premiums that high our insurance is still terrible. We can’t afford to go to the doctor because we’d still end up paying so much. If anything major came up I’d likely just have to declare bankruptcy and skip on the bill anyway, I’d be better off without insurance.
    I don't get how the majority of people can afford the insurance, let alone extra costs. So you pay all that and still have to pay out of pocket to see a doctor? Huh? Why? Is that insurance only for when you're so sick and injured you have to go to the hospital? This entire concept, at those rates, actually shocks the fuck out of me. Well, having a private health insurance system at all shocks the fuck out of me - profit comes from not providing the best care or even no care, which is a human rights violation IMO - but this is just worse. How does any kind of insurance cost that much, and why are people willing to pay it or support a system that works like that in any way? This make no sense to me - I'm a bit befuddled.
    A routine dr visit isn’t bad, I think the copay is $30 a visit for a family dr. It’s more for a specialist, $60 a visit I think if it’s someone other than just your family dr. Urgent care, which is where we have to go most of the time because it’s really difficult to get a last minute appointment for a family dr, is $100 a visit. ER is $200 just to walk in the door, and then a copay on top of that can easily bring a short visit for something like blood clots into the thousands.
    Medication is hit or miss, sometimes it’s $10, sometimes $60 or more to fill a prescription. My wife was actually just denied a prescription through insurance, the reason was it’s only available in 90-day prescriptions at the pharmacy but the insurance would only approve a 30-day supply. So we had to go all out of pocket on that.

    the real kick in the nuts is ive learned to always ask for cash prices, sometimes the uninsured cash price is cheaper than the negotiated copay through insurance. My copay on a prescription may be $60, but the regular price is only $40.  So even after all that, sometimes I’m still better off claiming no insurance and just going out of pocket completely. I complained to my insurer about that one time and the response I got was “it’s always a good idea to price check.”
    i mean the whole concept behind insurance and why my combined premiums (what my employer pays + what I pay) is $2000 a month is so that the insurer absorbs the majority of the medical cost and I pay a fraction of it. But that’s not the case much of the time. So what’s the point?
    So when poor/cash poor people get sick and need to see a doctor or go the ER... they just can't, simple as that? Or is that when they have to go to one of those nightmarish county places, and then can walk in without a penny in their pocket? And to those kind of crazy free charity-supported walk-in clinics? I'm just getting those ideas from shows like ER and Grey's Anatomy, lol, so I have no idea if that's really how it is.
    Those people don't go to the family dr. Many go to the ER because by law they can't be turned down. Which is one reason why ERs are experiencing problems here, and wait time for non-emergencies can be several hours. But you see people go to the ER for minor injuries just because they can walk out and stiff the hospital with the bill.
    I'm not sure if those nightmarish free clinics even exist for just normal care?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 41,657
    edited May 7
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    So you pretty much need to get a masters to make any sort of money. By the time you get to the top you d be retired. Lol. Shitty guide
    I think every teacher has to have a Masters in a certain amount of time.

    Teachers?
    Not for most elementary, middle schools and high schools.   College, almost always.
    Technically that is true, but in reality it's not at all true. Competition for the PDP programs (which you need to do to be a teacher) in post-secondary is so high that pretty much nobody without a masters is accepted to the program in the first place. I know that in Canada VERY few people are becoming teachers without a masters degree, no matter what grade they teach.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,114
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    So you pretty much need to get a masters to make any sort of money. By the time you get to the top you d be retired. Lol. Shitty guide
    I think every teacher has to have a Masters in a certain amount of time.

    Teachers?
    Not for most elementary, middle schools and high schools.   College, almost always.
    Technically that is true, but in reality it's not at all true. Competition for the PDP programs (which you need to do to be a teacher) in post-secondary is so high that pretty much nobody without a masters is accepted to the program in the first place. I know that in Canada VERY few people are becoming teachers without a masters degree, no matter what grade they teach.
    In Canada, that wouldn't surprise me. 

    I've been out of teaching for several years so I don't know for fact how competitive teaching positions are in most places (U.S., that is) but I'm guessing that with as low as the pay is, as high the stress is, as unappreciated as the career is, and as the value of being well educated seems to be going down here, not up, there probably isn't all that much competition here anymore.  I rarely meet college age kids anymore who talk about wanting to go into teaching.
    "We are cruelly trapped between what we would like to be and what we actually are."
    -James Baldwin
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.




  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,489
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    So you pretty much need to get a masters to make any sort of money. By the time you get to the top you d be retired. Lol. Shitty guide
    I think every teacher has to have a Masters in a certain amount of time.

    Teachers?
    Not for most elementary, middle schools and high schools.   College, almost always.
    Technically that is true, but in reality it's not at all true. Competition for the PDP programs (which you need to do to be a teacher) in post-secondary is so high that pretty much nobody without a masters is accepted to the program in the first place. I know that in Canada VERY few people are becoming teachers without a masters degree, no matter what grade they teach.
    We actually have the opposite problem here. Since we pay teachers with a masters more, sometimes it is more difficult to get a job. Some administrators will admit and flat out tell you don't advertise that you have a masters when applying for jobs, because that just means they have to pay you more. And in an era where many states are underfunded it makes a different.
    Not all schools and areas do that, some states are funded very well and prefer more education. But I have heard more than one administrator say that.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,114
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    So you pretty much need to get a masters to make any sort of money. By the time you get to the top you d be retired. Lol. Shitty guide
    I think every teacher has to have a Masters in a certain amount of time.

    Teachers?
    Not for most elementary, middle schools and high schools.   College, almost always.
    Technically that is true, but in reality it's not at all true. Competition for the PDP programs (which you need to do to be a teacher) in post-secondary is so high that pretty much nobody without a masters is accepted to the program in the first place. I know that in Canada VERY few people are becoming teachers without a masters degree, no matter what grade they teach.
    We actually have the opposite problem here. Since we pay teachers with a masters more, sometimes it is more difficult to get a job. Some administrators will admit and flat out tell you don't advertise that you have a masters when applying for jobs, because that just means they have to pay you more. And in an era where many states are underfunded it makes a different.
    Not all schools and areas do that, some states are funded very well and prefer more education. But I have heard more than one administrator say that.
    Man, that is SAD!
    "We are cruelly trapped between what we would like to be and what we actually are."
    -James Baldwin
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.




  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 15,128
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    So you pretty much need to get a masters to make any sort of money. By the time you get to the top you d be retired. Lol. Shitty guide
    I think every teacher has to have a Masters in a certain amount of time.

    Teachers?
    You definitely don't need a masters to teach in NJ.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 13,259
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    So you pretty much need to get a masters to make any sort of money. By the time you get to the top you d be retired. Lol. Shitty guide
    I think every teacher has to have a Masters in a certain amount of time.

    Teachers?
    You definitely don't need a masters to teach in NJ.
    In NY you eventually need a Masters here to teach.  At first you do not.  I just asked 5 of my teacher friends.  
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,114
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    So you pretty much need to get a masters to make any sort of money. By the time you get to the top you d be retired. Lol. Shitty guide
    I think every teacher has to have a Masters in a certain amount of time.

    Teachers?
    You definitely don't need a masters to teach in NJ.
    In NY you eventually need a Masters here to teach.  At first you do not.  I just asked 5 of my teacher friends.  
    Interesting- didn't know that.  

    I lived in western NY state for two separate years ('75 and '77) and that first year I could not find work and hadn't yet completed my BA in California.  I was almost on the verge of starving so I finally applied for financial assistance and was told I could receive food stamps and a bit of welfare money and I said, "Fine, but I need to work for it."  That rural county was in desperate need of teaching assistants so they created a class for me in which they dumped all the drop outs, flunkies and fuck ups.  That was cool because I could understand their rebellion.  On Fridays, I checked out a record player from the AV room and we spun records.  We had a good time and one Friday, one of those kids brought in a record he had just bought. It was the Neil Young & Crazy Horse album, Zuma which I had never hear until that day.  Good times!
    "We are cruelly trapped between what we would like to be and what we actually are."
    -James Baldwin
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.




  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 15,128
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    If you're curious how much teachers make in my area this is a good example. The local paper reported this district as the highest paying in the county.
    If you're not familiar with this scale, the #1-26 on the left represent years of experience, and the top represents education. So yes a teacher can make close to 80k here, if they have a Masters AND a something close to a PHD equivalent (72 graduate level units) and 26 years of teaching experience. How many people with a PHD do you know that work in the same place for 26 years and only make 80k? I don't know any.
    A teacher with a masters starts out at 42,900, a masters and 10 years experience makes 49,900.  If all you ever get is a BA, then your max pay is 46k. You have to spend more time and a lot of money to earn additional, graduate level credits to increase pay. This is expensive and slow. Earn a Masters after your BA and you get a whopping 5k added to your pay.
    Not to mention about $1000 a month will be taken out of this pay for benefits. Then deductions for taxes, medicare, retirement etc is another $700 or $800 a month
    And that retirement the article bragged about so much, well that is self-funded. Money is taken out of your paycheck and placed into a fund. No retirement is given to teachers in this state, it is basically a stock market that is managed for you with your own money. The only problem is if you die 2 years after you retire your wife or kids never see that money that you put into for 30 years, it goes back into the pension fund (yes there is that potential to live to 100 and get more back than you put in). Stock market managed by me and not on my behalf actually sounds like a better deal.
    So you still think they are overpaid? 

    So you pretty much need to get a masters to make any sort of money. By the time you get to the top you d be retired. Lol. Shitty guide
    I think every teacher has to have a Masters in a certain amount of time.

    Teachers?
    You definitely don't need a masters to teach in NJ.
    In NY you eventually need a Masters here to teach.  At first you do not.  I just asked 5 of my teacher friends.  
    I didn’t know that about ny. As usual each state has their own criteria. I wonder if each district in ny pays for the masters. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • riotgrlriotgrl LOUISVILLEPosts: 1,839
    In Kentucky ALL teachers are required to have their masters within 10 years but most teacher prep programs are set up to give you a masters as your initial certification credentials..  The only teachers that have generally needed to go back were older teachers who started before this was required (before 1995 or so). 

    I'd like to add a big thank you to those who have offered your support.  Its disheartening to go to work every day and know that so many blame you for the ills of society and offer little to no support.  I actively discourage anyone from entering this profession and that includes my own child who would be an outstanding teacher.  But this country will have to learn the hard way.  In KY we just staged several days of 'sickouts' to fight to fully fund our pension (a pension that I've paid 13% of EVERY paycheck into for the last 16 years - people seem to think pensions are "free" money!) and fully fund our schools.  We've gotten a lot of support and we managed to roll back some of the worst issues the legislature and our dumbass governor were pushing but the amount of people that don't support us (and really, that means they don't support kids) is disgusting.  I read through this thread yesterday and I'd like to say I'm surprised with the things some people said but really, it's just more of the same.  I've worked a regular 9-5 job for a "full" year like some of you here and I can tell you from firsthand experience that teaching is way harder, physically, mentally, and emotionally.  I'd like to address some of the misconceptions that some of you have and maybe I'll have time later but I encourage (and really I think it should be required) each of you to go work in a school with a teacher so you can get a sense of what really happens in a classroom.  Trust me it is nothing like you think that it is.
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 12,400
    I was studying to be a teacher, did about 2 weeks of placement at a high school. I got scared away. Not for me. 
    I hate how parents don't read to their kids, don't help them with their homework and then blame teachers.
    I hate how stupid people are, they think having kids is just breeding them and that is it.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 14,509
    For those regions requiring their teachers to earn a masters degree... do the districts pay for the demand or is that left to the individual?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 1,777
    I was studying to be a teacher, did about 2 weeks of placement at a high school. I got scared away. Not for me. 
    I hate how parents don't read to their kids, don't help them with their homework and then blame teachers.
    I hate how stupid people are, they think having kids is just breeding them and that is it.

    You don’t need a masters to teach in Ontario ... 

    You did a placement at a high school ... those kids should be able to read to themselves.  Not sure how many parents can help kids with much of their homework at the high school level.  As far as homework ... it should be banned.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 15,128
    I was studying to be a teacher, did about 2 weeks of placement at a high school. I got scared away. Not for me. 
    I hate how parents don't read to their kids, don't help them with their homework and then blame teachers.
    I hate how stupid people are, they think having kids is just breeding them and that is it.

    You don’t need a masters to teach in Ontario ... 

    You did a placement at a high school ... those kids should be able to read to themselves.  Not sure how many parents can help kids with much of their homework at the high school level.  As far as homework ... it should be banned.
    It is in my district and it is terrible.  Actually let me clarify, home work can not be graded and you can't take off points for late assignments.  It is great for k-5 but assassine at the middle school level.  (we are only a k-8 district)
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,489
    edited May 8
    riotgrl said:
    In Kentucky ALL teachers are required to have their masters within 10 years but most teacher prep programs are set up to give you a masters as your initial certification credentials..  The only teachers that have generally needed to go back were older teachers who started before this was required (before 1995 or so). 

    I'd like to add a big thank you to those who have offered your support.  Its disheartening to go to work every day and know that so many blame you for the ills of society and offer little to no support.  I actively discourage anyone from entering this profession and that includes my own child who would be an outstanding teacher.  But this country will have to learn the hard way.  In KY we just staged several days of 'sickouts' to fight to fully fund our pension (a pension that I've paid 13% of EVERY paycheck into for the last 16 years - people seem to think pensions are "free" money!) and fully fund our schools.  We've gotten a lot of support and we managed to roll back some of the worst issues the legislature and our dumbass governor were pushing but the amount of people that don't support us (and really, that means they don't support kids) is disgusting.  I read through this thread yesterday and I'd like to say I'm surprised with the things some people said but really, it's just more of the same.  I've worked a regular 9-5 job for a "full" year like some of you here and I can tell you from firsthand experience that teaching is way harder, physically, mentally, and emotionally.  I'd like to address some of the misconceptions that some of you have and maybe I'll have time later but I encourage (and really I think it should be required) each of you to go work in a school with a teacher so you can get a sense of what really happens in a classroom.  Trust me it is nothing like you think that it is.
    Well said.
    I took a year off from teaching at one point and that is 100% true. No stress, well rested, etc. Went back to teaching after moving thinking it was going to be different. And it was for a while, until the lack of pay increases combined with the huge spike in insurance and other cost of living has forced me to find other work part time, now I'm just exhausted all day again. Some years we make less than the year before with higher deductions from my paycheck.
    I don't get the argument that the public thinks the pension is such a perk either. Its very puzzling. We all pay a good amount of our paycheck into it, and for anyone hired within the last 15 years we don't get back what we've put it. We seriously would be better off putting that 13% into a private fund. But we are paying (literally) for the mistakes the previous generation made. If you started right out of college many teachers retiring now can retire at 52 with almost a full paycheck and live another 40 years, so they have to raise what newer teachers put into the retirement plan and we get less back to compensate for it.  End result, I wont be allowed to retire until 64 and only get about 65% of my paycheck when I do, while I've put in more of my check each month than previous generations did who retired a lot earlier with a lot better benefits. 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • riotgrlriotgrl LOUISVILLEPosts: 1,839
    For those regions requiring their teachers to earn a masters degree... do the districts pay for the demand or is that left to the individual?
    Paying for the masters is out of my pocket.  Perks of the masters is from increased pay.  But as I said, it is a requirement to have a masters degree.  I will also say that my state requires me to get 24 hours of professional development each year to retain my certification.  PD is on my own time and at my own expense.
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 7,924
    riotgrl said:
    For those regions requiring their teachers to earn a masters degree... do the districts pay for the demand or is that left to the individual?
    Paying for the masters is out of my pocket.  Perks of the masters is from increased pay.  But as I said, it is a requirement to have a masters degree.  I will also say that my state requires me to get 24 hours of professional development each year to retain my certification.  PD is on my own time and at my own expense.
    Professional development on your own time and at your own expense is standard for those professions that require it, though. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 15,128
    riotgrl said:
    For those regions requiring their teachers to earn a masters degree... do the districts pay for the demand or is that left to the individual?
    Paying for the masters is out of my pocket.  Perks of the masters is from increased pay.  But as I said, it is a requirement to have a masters degree.  I will also say that my state requires me to get 24 hours of professional development each year to retain my certification.  PD is on my own time and at my own expense.
    My district provides the 20 hours of professional development a year I need to have as required by the state.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • riotgrlriotgrl LOUISVILLEPosts: 1,839
    mcgruff10 said:
    riotgrl said:
    For those regions requiring their teachers to earn a masters degree... do the districts pay for the demand or is that left to the individual?
    Paying for the masters is out of my pocket.  Perks of the masters is from increased pay.  But as I said, it is a requirement to have a masters degree.  I will also say that my state requires me to get 24 hours of professional development each year to retain my certification.  PD is on my own time and at my own expense.
    My district provides the 20 hours of professional development a year I need to have as required by the state.
    Some of our schools do as well.  My department usually schedules a PD to get about 6 of those hours.  Getting AP certification is not reimbursed and it gets expensive doing those week long PD's and I have 4 separate AP certifications.  I'm not complaining about getting PD - I think it is necessary for all professions but when I was in financial services I didn't' have to do nearly as many hours to retain my license.  I think the number of hours needed is good - other professions should require as much.
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 12,400
    I was studying to be a teacher, did about 2 weeks of placement at a high school. I got scared away. Not for me. 
    I hate how parents don't read to their kids, don't help them with their homework and then blame teachers.
    I hate how stupid people are, they think having kids is just breeding them and that is it.

    You don’t need a masters to teach in Ontario ... 

    You did a placement at a high school ... those kids should be able to read to themselves.  Not sure how many parents can help kids with much of their homework at the high school level.  As far as homework ... it should be banned.
    Neither do you need one in Australia.
    Some universities offer it some don't.
    When I was doing my placement I had other student teachers from other universities doing their masters.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,899
    I was studying to be a teacher, did about 2 weeks of placement at a high school. I got scared away. Not for me. 
    I hate how parents don't read to their kids, don't help them with their homework and then blame teachers.
    I hate how stupid people are, they think having kids is just breeding them and that is it.

    You don’t need a masters to teach in Ontario ... 

    You did a placement at a high school ... those kids should be able to read to themselves.  Not sure how many parents can help kids with much of their homework at the high school level.  As far as homework ... it should be banned.
    Neither do you need one in Australia.
    Some universities offer it some don't.
    When I was doing my placement I had other student teachers from other universities doing their masters.
    I was studying to be a teacher, did about 2 weeks of placement at a high school. I got scared away. Not for me. 
    I hate how parents don't read to their kids, don't help them with their homework and then blame teachers.
    I hate how stupid people are, they think having kids is just breeding them and that is it.

    You don’t need a masters to teach in Ontario ... 

    You did a placement at a high school ... those kids should be able to read to themselves.  Not sure how many parents can help kids with much of their homework at the high school level.  As far as homework ... it should be banned.
    Neither do you need one in Australia.
    Some universities offer it some don't.
    When I was doing my placement I had other student teachers from other universities doing their masters.



    when i was studying, if youd obtained an undergrad degree, you had to satisfy the dept of education guidelines to do a masters in secondary education, dependant on what that  degree was. i did my bachelors degree majoring in english and history/philosophy/politics. when it came time for my masters i had to be in possession of a quota of whatever my KLA was going to be. mine was english and history. if you didnt have that quota you had to study them concourrently with your masters. 
    hear my name
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    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 12,400
    I was studying to be a teacher, did about 2 weeks of placement at a high school. I got scared away. Not for me. 
    I hate how parents don't read to their kids, don't help them with their homework and then blame teachers.
    I hate how stupid people are, they think having kids is just breeding them and that is it.

    You don’t need a masters to teach in Ontario ... 

    You did a placement at a high school ... those kids should be able to read to themselves.  Not sure how many parents can help kids with much of their homework at the high school level.  As far as homework ... it should be banned.
    Neither do you need one in Australia.
    Some universities offer it some don't.
    When I was doing my placement I had other student teachers from other universities doing their masters.
    I was studying to be a teacher, did about 2 weeks of placement at a high school. I got scared away. Not for me. 
    I hate how parents don't read to their kids, don't help them with their homework and then blame teachers.
    I hate how stupid people are, they think having kids is just breeding them and that is it.

    You don’t need a masters to teach in Ontario ... 

    You did a placement at a high school ... those kids should be able to read to themselves.  Not sure how many parents can help kids with much of their homework at the high school level.  As far as homework ... it should be banned.
    Neither do you need one in Australia.
    Some universities offer it some don't.
    When I was doing my placement I had other student teachers from other universities doing their masters.



    when i was studying, if youd obtained an undergrad degree, you had to satisfy the dept of education guidelines to do a masters in secondary education, dependant on what that  degree was. i did my bachelors degree majoring in english and history/philosophy/politics. when it came time for my masters i had to be in possession of a quota of whatever my KLA was going to be. mine was english and history. if you didnt have that quota you had to study them concourrently with your masters. 
    The Melbourne Uni students I spoke to on placement had their KLA's already and just had to do the teaching subjects.
    When I was doing my BA (Humanities) I was doing both concurrently. 
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
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