Something about teacher's pay...

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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,186
    Jason P said:

    People that become teachers know all of the alleged downsides before they actually become teachers. If money is that big of a deal, find a new profession if money is your motivating factor.

    I would be a white water rafting guide, but the low pay and and lack of benefits outweighed my love of the game.

    I would disagree. My pay is less than when I started because the cost of benefits have increased by a factor of nearly 10, and pay freezes prevent us from making what we were told going into this. Pension and retirements have been slashed too, which was a factor in determining a career for me. Myself and many teachers are not making nearly what I thought I would be at this point 10 years ago, not getting the retirement we thought, and are paying a lot more towards benefits than we used to. So I don't think it's fair or accurate to justify salaries by saying "you new it going in." I know a lot of public jobs were in similar boats too, but it seems to me teachers get hit the hardest when it comes to budget cuts.
    Starting over is very unappealing with 10+ years in a career too.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562

    Jason P said:

    People that become teachers know all of the alleged downsides before they actually become teachers. If money is that big of a deal, find a new profession if money is your motivating factor.

    I would be a white water rafting guide, but the low pay and and lack of benefits outweighed my love of the game.

    There's definitely truth to this, but there's also something to be said for trying to improve conditions too.

    I don't think it should be a case of simply accepting the profession as one with- as you framed it- too many downsides that might discourage someone from entering it.

    We're all stakeholders in public education: if we don't have kids taking advantage of it... we all indirectly need it to be strong (we need good people looking after us when we are old).

    I'm on my way out. I can accept what is on the table for me right now to the end and still be very happy doing my job. I'm honest when I say I'm concerned for the future: your advice is being followed by many. Good people are passing on pursuing the job- men in particular (over 80% of today's teacher are women in my province and that number is rising).
    2 words. Common Core.

    But no one wants to discuss that.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,186
    edited August 2016
    Free said:

    Jason P said:

    People that become teachers know all of the alleged downsides before they actually become teachers. If money is that big of a deal, find a new profession if money is your motivating factor.

    I would be a white water rafting guide, but the low pay and and lack of benefits outweighed my love of the game.

    There's definitely truth to this, but there's also something to be said for trying to improve conditions too.

    I don't think it should be a case of simply accepting the profession as one with- as you framed it- too many downsides that might discourage someone from entering it.

    We're all stakeholders in public education: if we don't have kids taking advantage of it... we all indirectly need it to be strong (we need good people looking after us when we are old).

    I'm on my way out. I can accept what is on the table for me right now to the end and still be very happy doing my job. I'm honest when I say I'm concerned for the future: your advice is being followed by many. Good people are passing on pursuing the job- men in particular (over 80% of today's teacher are women in my province and that number is rising).
    2 words. Common Core.

    But no one wants to discuss that.
    Common core has very little to do with the downsides and nothing at all with teacher salaries. The biggest headache I've seen that Common Core brings is the focus on insignificant details that have popped up along with CC. I have my daily objective on the board, but hey lets have a meeting that wastes an entire afternoon so we can all call them "learning targets" instead of objectives. What? Now you're saying the test scores are low because I didn't word my learning target correctly? SO lets spend another afternoon discussing the importance of phrasing it "we will..." instead of "students will..."
    I have seen terrible things done at schools, such as no longer offering geometry because that was the lowest tested math subject. So how do we raise math scores? Don't offer, and therefore don't test the lowest math class. Boom, math scores raised overnight and now we get a sticker saying we're a good school.
    What about science? well, lets make kids take 2 years of biology so they can have high test scores by the end of the second year, only lets give the second year a slightly different name so colleges think they took 2 different classes-same exact state standardized test though. Again, scores raised overnight. Yay! We get to keep that good-school sticker!
    Education needs improvement, teachers need job security and schools need a way to release bad teachers. Common Core isn't the best, or worst thing going on in schools, but it gets all the attention.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 7,839
    well today is the last day of school for my local teachers.  2.5 months off although some in here disputed those clear facts.  happy summer to the teachers out there.  
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 5,284
    unsung said:
    They have become indoctrination artists instead of teachers. They have political agendas.
    Brian, you dug up this old gem from unsung!
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,566
    pjhawks said:
    well today is the last day of school for my local teachers.  2.5 months off although some in here disputed those clear facts.  happy summer to the teachers out there.  
    2.5 months "off", :lol:
    unsung said:
    They have become indoctrination artists instead of teachers. They have political agendas.
    Brian, you dug up this old gem from unsung!
    Please hold, I am scanning my memory banks.
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...
    We are sorry, memory banks contain insufficient data. 

    :lol:
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 2,357
    If you think teachers are paid shit, look into the realm of social work...
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,566
    PJPOWER said:
    If you think teachers are paid shit, look into the realm of social work...
    For sure. 

    Or highly talented musicians not lucky enough or lacking the A-type personality to get the right connections. The best paid are often not the most talented.  For most in the music business, it's either feast or famine.  It's just wrong.
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,328
    PJPOWER said:
    If you think teachers are paid shit, look into the realm of social work...
    100% agree.  Social workers are way underpaid.
    2.5 months off lol.  I'll be starting my summer job next week.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,566
    edited June 16
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    If you think teachers are paid shit, look into the realm of social work...
    100% agree.  Social workers are way underpaid.
    2.5 months off lol.  I'll be starting my summer job next week.
    WHAT??  And here a thought teachers just hung out at the beach all summer long in their huarahes sipping on Piña Coladas or toking on a bong.  I'll be dipped!

    Well then, here's one for you, McG, and all you good teacher folk taking that nice long vacation, :lol:







    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,328
    edited June 16
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    If you think teachers are paid shit, look into the realm of social work...
    100% agree.  Social workers are way underpaid.
    2.5 months off lol.  I'll be starting my summer job next week.
    WHAT??  And here a thought teachers just hung out at the beach all summer long in their huarahes sipping on Piña Coladas or toking on a bong.  I'll be dipped!

    Well then, here's one for you, McG, and all you good teacher folk taking that nice long vacation, :lol:







    Thanks bud!!!  If you need to find me I'll be at my beach house in Oahu for the 2 months.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 8,261
    "Other professional" here.

    I work 830-500 Monday thru Friday. I get 10 paid holidays and 4 weeks of paid vacation per year. (Amounting to 6 work weeks of paid time off, approximately 1.5 months).

    Rarely do I ever work more than 40 hours and if I do, it's 41.

    I get every weekend off. I get every evening off. I don't take work home with me because there is no work to take home. (Even if there was, I still wouldn't.)

    Of the 250 days x 8 hours = 2000 hours worked annually, I probably put in about 1375 hours of actual work (5.5 hrs per day on average). The rest of that time is spent socializing or online. And that's me, one of the hardest working people at my job. Others fuck around way more often than I do.

    Teachers are at school, teaching, 180 days a year. That's 1440 hours. 65 hours more than what I put in annually. And that's not even including the time spent after hours, on weekends, in the summer at conferences, continuing ed, etc. that they have to do. Already at the base they are working more.

    So enough of this shit about teaching being a part time job and teachers getting a 2.5 month vacation. They put in more (or at the very least, comparable) hours annually than most of us.

    Not to mention my job (and most likely yours, too) means absolute shit in the grand scheme of shaping the future generations of this world.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,566
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    If you think teachers are paid shit, look into the realm of social work...
    100% agree.  Social workers are way underpaid.
    2.5 months off lol.  I'll be starting my summer job next week.
    WHAT??  And here a thought teachers just hung out at the beach all summer long in their huarahes sipping on Piña Coladas or toking on a bong.  I'll be dipped!

    Well then, here's one for you, McG, and all you good teacher folk taking that nice long vacation, :lol:







    Thanks bud!!!  If you need to find me I'll be at my beach house in Oahu for the 2 months.
    haha!  You got , man!  Hang ten!
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,328
    "Other professional" here.

    I work 830-500 Monday thru Friday. I get 10 paid holidays and 4 weeks of paid vacation per year. (Amounting to 6 work weeks of paid time off, approximately 1.5 months).

    Rarely do I ever work more than 40 hours and if I do, it's 41.

    I get every weekend off. I get every evening off. I don't take work home with me because there is no work to take home. (Even if there was, I still wouldn't.)

    Of the 250 days x 8 hours = 2000 hours worked annually, I probably put in about 1375 hours of actual work (5.5 hrs per day on average). The rest of that time is spent socializing or online. And that's me, one of the hardest working people at my job. Others fuck around way more often than I do.

    Teachers are at school, teaching, 180 days a year. That's 1440 hours. 65 hours more than what I put in annually. And that's not even including the time spent after hours, on weekends, in the summer at conferences, continuing ed, etc. that they have to do. Already at the base they are working more.

    So enough of this shit about teaching being a part time job and teachers getting a 2.5 month vacation. They put in more (or at the very least, comparable) hours annually than most of us.

    Not to mention my job (and most likely yours, too) means absolute shit in the grand scheme of shaping the future generations of this world.
    Thanks for that bud!  Awesome post!!!
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,566
    "Other professional" here.

    I work 830-500 Monday thru Friday. I get 10 paid holidays and 4 weeks of paid vacation per year. (Amounting to 6 work weeks of paid time off, approximately 1.5 months).

    Rarely do I ever work more than 40 hours and if I do, it's 41.

    I get every weekend off. I get every evening off. I don't take work home with me because there is no work to take home. (Even if there was, I still wouldn't.)

    Of the 250 days x 8 hours = 2000 hours worked annually, I probably put in about 1375 hours of actual work (5.5 hrs per day on average). The rest of that time is spent socializing or online. And that's me, one of the hardest working people at my job. Others fuck around way more often than I do.

    Teachers are at school, teaching, 180 days a year. That's 1440 hours. 65 hours more than what I put in annually. And that's not even including the time spent after hours, on weekends, in the summer at conferences, continuing ed, etc. that they have to do. Already at the base they are working more.

    So enough of this shit about teaching being a part time job and teachers getting a 2.5 month vacation. They put in more (or at the very least, comparable) hours annually than most of us.

    Not to mention my job (and most likely yours, too) means absolute shit in the grand scheme of shaping the future generations of this world.
    Well said!

    I've heard similar scenarios for government jobs.  I know two young, ambitious people working in California state government find the one thing they hate about their job is not having enough to do and trying to get through many days that are just sheer boredom.  And it's not like they're allow to make work for themselves either.  (But to be fair, I've also known government employees who work long hard hours.  There seems to be little consistency in gov work.)
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 3,527
    "Other professional" here.

    I work 830-500 Monday thru Friday. I get 10 paid holidays and 4 weeks of paid vacation per year. (Amounting to 6 work weeks of paid time off, approximately 1.5 months).

    Rarely do I ever work more than 40 hours and if I do, it's 41.

    I get every weekend off. I get every evening off. I don't take work home with me because there is no work to take home. (Even if there was, I still wouldn't.)

    Of the 250 days x 8 hours = 2000 hours worked annually, I probably put in about 1375 hours of actual work (5.5 hrs per day on average). The rest of that time is spent socializing or online. And that's me, one of the hardest working people at my job. Others fuck around way more often than I do.

    Teachers are at school, teaching, 180 days a year. That's 1440 hours. 65 hours more than what I put in annually. And that's not even including the time spent after hours, on weekends, in the summer at conferences, continuing ed, etc. that they have to do. Already at the base they are working more.

    So enough of this shit about teaching being a part time job and teachers getting a 2.5 month vacation. They put in more (or at the very least, comparable) hours annually than most of us.

    Not to mention my job (and most likely yours, too) means absolute shit in the grand scheme of shaping the future generations of this world.
    Well said
    However,  there are people in this country, and on here, who will always believe that teachers are under worked and overpaid.
  • "Other professional" here.

    I work 830-500 Monday thru Friday. I get 10 paid holidays and 4 weeks of paid vacation per year. (Amounting to 6 work weeks of paid time off, approximately 1.5 months).

    Rarely do I ever work more than 40 hours and if I do, it's 41.

    I get every weekend off. I get every evening off. I don't take work home with me because there is no work to take home. (Even if there was, I still wouldn't.)

    Of the 250 days x 8 hours = 2000 hours worked annually, I probably put in about 1375 hours of actual work (5.5 hrs per day on average). The rest of that time is spent socializing or online. And that's me, one of the hardest working people at my job. Others fuck around way more often than I do.

    Teachers are at school, teaching, 180 days a year. That's 1440 hours. 65 hours more than what I put in annually. And that's not even including the time spent after hours, on weekends, in the summer at conferences, continuing ed, etc. that they have to do. Already at the base they are working more.

    So enough of this shit about teaching being a part time job and teachers getting a 2.5 month vacation. They put in more (or at the very least, comparable) hours annually than most of us.

    Not to mention my job (and most likely yours, too) means absolute shit in the grand scheme of shaping the future generations of this world.
    Well said
    However,  there are people in this country, and on here, who will always believe that teachers are under worked and overpaid.
    Not surprising.

    "Seven percent of all American adults believe that chocolate milk comes from brown cows, according to a nationally representative online survey commissioned by the Innovation Center of U.S. Dairy."

    I mean... don't ever make the mistake of thinking the country is brimming with intelligence. 

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/15/seven-percent-of-americans-think-chocolate-milk-comes-from-brown-cows-and-thats-not-even-the-scary-part/?utm_term=.24dcac15db21

    * And what a great post Dyer contributed!
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 12,392
    "Other professional" here.

    I work 830-500 Monday thru Friday. I get 10 paid holidays and 4 weeks of paid vacation per year. (Amounting to 6 work weeks of paid time off, approximately 1.5 months).

    Rarely do I ever work more than 40 hours and if I do, it's 41.

    I get every weekend off. I get every evening off. I don't take work home with me because there is no work to take home. (Even if there was, I still wouldn't.)

    Of the 250 days x 8 hours = 2000 hours worked annually, I probably put in about 1375 hours of actual work (5.5 hrs per day on average). The rest of that time is spent socializing or online. And that's me, one of the hardest working people at my job. Others fuck around way more often than I do.

    Teachers are at school, teaching, 180 days a year. That's 1440 hours. 65 hours more than what I put in annually. And that's not even including the time spent after hours, on weekends, in the summer at conferences, continuing ed, etc. that they have to do. Already at the base they are working more.

    So enough of this shit about teaching being a part time job and teachers getting a 2.5 month vacation. They put in more (or at the very least, comparable) hours annually than most of us.

    Not to mention my job (and most likely yours, too) means absolute shit in the grand scheme of shaping the future generations of this world.
    Right on
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 12,392
    Bloated administrative salaries in the educational field, now that's a different story 
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,328
    my2hands said:
    Bloated administrative salaries in the educational field, now that's a different story 
    The principal of the school i work in is in charge of 100 staff and 1250 students and makes around 150k. Is that bloated in your opinion?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,566
    mcgruff10 said:
    my2hands said:
    Bloated administrative salaries in the educational field, now that's a different story 
    The principal of the school i work in is in charge of 100 staff and 1250 students and makes around 150k. Is that bloated in your opinion?

    But (and I don't know the number off the top of my head but you might) factor in how many individuals does the typical principle deal with in an average day and how many does a teacher deal with, both in total number per day and how many must they juggle at one time.  You know!

    And then factor in the total number of non-teacher staff.  In many schools, administrative staff and other positions total more than the total number of teachers. 

    In my seven years as a teacher, my sense was that administrative staff overall was bloated.  Also, in the two years I worked as program assistant in a college the joke among the profs (I actually heard this said a few times) was that, in general, administrators had the attitude that "if it wasn't for the damn students we could get some work done around here".  Not that all admin folks are poor employees or overpaid, but I do think my2hands comment holds some truth.

    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,328
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    my2hands said:
    Bloated administrative salaries in the educational field, now that's a different story 
    The principal of the school i work in is in charge of 100 staff and 1250 students and makes around 150k. Is that bloated in your opinion?

    But (and I don't know the number off the top of my head but you might) factor in how many individuals does the typical principle deal with in an average day and how many does a teacher deal with, both in total number per day and how many must they juggle at one time.  You know!

    And then factor in the total number of non-teacher staff.  In many schools, administrative staff and other positions total more than the total number of teachers. 

    In my seven years as a teacher, my sense was that administrative staff overall was bloated.  Also, in the two years I worked as program assistant in a college the joke among the profs (I actually heard this said a few times) was that, in general, administrators had the attitude that "if it wasn't for the damn students we could get some work done around here".  Not that all admin folks are poor employees or overpaid, but I do think my2hands comment holds some truth.

    oh absolutely, way too many administrators.  you figure for me as an 8th grade social studies teacher I have: a superintendent, two assistant superintendents, a social studies supervisor, a special ed supervisor, a principal and two vp's.  Now grant it we are one of the biggest districts in the state (10 elementary schools and two middle schools)
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,566
    mcgruff10 said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    my2hands said:
    Bloated administrative salaries in the educational field, now that's a different story 
    The principal of the school i work in is in charge of 100 staff and 1250 students and makes around 150k. Is that bloated in your opinion?

    But (and I don't know the number off the top of my head but you might) factor in how many individuals does the typical principle deal with in an average day and how many does a teacher deal with, both in total number per day and how many must they juggle at one time.  You know!

    And then factor in the total number of non-teacher staff.  In many schools, administrative staff and other positions total more than the total number of teachers. 

    In my seven years as a teacher, my sense was that administrative staff overall was bloated.  Also, in the two years I worked as program assistant in a college the joke among the profs (I actually heard this said a few times) was that, in general, administrators had the attitude that "if it wasn't for the damn students we could get some work done around here".  Not that all admin folks are poor employees or overpaid, but I do think my2hands comment holds some truth.

    oh absolutely, way too many administrators.  you figure for me as an 8th grade social studies teacher I have: a superintendent, two assistant superintendents, a social studies supervisor, a special ed supervisor, a principal and two vp's.  Now grant it we are one of the biggest districts in the state (10 elementary schools and two middle schools)
    Yeah, I was going to say- 100 staff, 1250 students- that's a big school! 

    My 5/6 combo class was a one year temp position after a semester of student teaching and it was idea- one principle, two office staff and the rest just teachers, teacher aides  and kids- maybe 100- 125 students total at the time.  I didn't get the full-time job because the school board consisted of a group of people who really had little connection to the school and insisted the permanent position be filled with someone with 5 years experience which I didn't have so I left the area rather discouraged!
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 35,503
    edited June 19
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    my2hands said:
    Bloated administrative salaries in the educational field, now that's a different story 
    The principal of the school i work in is in charge of 100 staff and 1250 students and makes around 150k. Is that bloated in your opinion?

    But (and I don't know the number off the top of my head but you might) factor in how many individuals does the typical principle deal with in an average day and how many does a teacher deal with, both in total number per day and how many must they juggle at one time.  You know!

    And then factor in the total number of non-teacher staff.  In many schools, administrative staff and other positions total more than the total number of teachers. 

    In my seven years as a teacher, my sense was that administrative staff overall was bloated.  Also, in the two years I worked as program assistant in a college the joke among the profs (I actually heard this said a few times) was that, in general, administrators had the attitude that "if it wasn't for the damn students we could get some work done around here".  Not that all admin folks are poor employees or overpaid, but I do think my2hands comment holds some truth.

    My dad is a retired principal, and I can confirm that principals generally deal with straight up bullshit from stupid people all day long, and still manage to keep the school running, hopefully well. Teachers, students, and, worse of all by far, parents, all bombard principals with their issues constantly. Yes, they deserve every penny they earn, assuming they are fulfilling their responsibilities (as well as funding will allow). Also, my dad was a very beloved principal, by his teachers and his students. :) And no way in hell would he have tolerated anything other than excellence from his administrative staff. Are there some shitty administrators out there? Of course! Are there some shitty people in all professions, no matter what the pay is? Yes! Individuals sucking at their job is not what you look at when you are figuring whether or not the profession as a whole is properly compensated.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 2,192
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    my2hands said:
    Bloated administrative salaries in the educational field, now that's a different story 
    The principal of the school i work in is in charge of 100 staff and 1250 students and makes around 150k. Is that bloated in your opinion?

    But (and I don't know the number off the top of my head but you might) factor in how many individuals does the typical principle deal with in an average day and how many does a teacher deal with, both in total number per day and how many must they juggle at one time.  You know!

    And then factor in the total number of non-teacher staff.  In many schools, administrative staff and other positions total more than the total number of teachers. 

    In my seven years as a teacher, my sense was that administrative staff overall was bloated.  Also, in the two years I worked as program assistant in a college the joke among the profs (I actually heard this said a few times) was that, in general, administrators had the attitude that "if it wasn't for the damn students we could get some work done around here".  Not that all admin folks are poor employees or overpaid, but I do think my2hands comment holds some truth.

    My dad is a retired principal, and I can confirm that principals generally deal with straight up bullshit from stupid people all day long, and still manage to keep the school running, hopefully well. Teachers, students, and, worse of all by far, parents, all bombard principals with their issues constantly. Yes, they deserve every penny they earn, assuming they are fulfilling their responsibilities (as well as funding will allow). Also, my dad was a very beloved principal, by his teachers and his students. :) And no way in hell would he have tolerated anything other than excellence from his administrative staff. Are there some shitty administrators out there? Of course! Are there some shitty people in all professions, no matter what the pay is? Yes! Individuals sucking at their job is not what you look at when you are figuring whether or not the profession as a whole is properly compensated.
    Right on, otherwise President would be a minimum wage job based on current performance ;)
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,566
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    my2hands said:
    Bloated administrative salaries in the educational field, now that's a different story 
    The principal of the school i work in is in charge of 100 staff and 1250 students and makes around 150k. Is that bloated in your opinion?

    But (and I don't know the number off the top of my head but you might) factor in how many individuals does the typical principle deal with in an average day and how many does a teacher deal with, both in total number per day and how many must they juggle at one time.  You know!

    And then factor in the total number of non-teacher staff.  In many schools, administrative staff and other positions total more than the total number of teachers. 

    In my seven years as a teacher, my sense was that administrative staff overall was bloated.  Also, in the two years I worked as program assistant in a college the joke among the profs (I actually heard this said a few times) was that, in general, administrators had the attitude that "if it wasn't for the damn students we could get some work done around here".  Not that all admin folks are poor employees or overpaid, but I do think my2hands comment holds some truth.

    My dad is a retired principal, and I can confirm that principals generally deal with straight up bullshit from stupid people all day long, and still manage to keep the school running, hopefully well. Teachers, students, and, worse of all by far, parents, all bombard principals with their issues constantly. Yes, they deserve every penny they earn, assuming they are fulfilling their responsibilities (as well as funding will allow). Also, my dad was a very beloved principal, by his teachers and his students. :) And no way in hell would he have tolerated anything other than excellence from his administrative staff. Are there some shitty administrators out there? Of course! Are there some shitty people in all professions, no matter what the pay is? Yes! Individuals sucking at their job is not what you look at when you are figuring whether or not the profession as a whole is properly compensated.
    So true.  I've known principals who were nearly saints and a few other who should have been demoted to janitor.  Like in any job, they run the gamut.
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
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