Something about teacher's pay...

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Comments

  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087

    lukin2006 said:

    pjhawks said:

    good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.

    I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.

    Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?

    The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...

    ... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?

    I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
    Nurses in Ontario do not work less than school teachers.
    3-4 days per week. Then OT.
    No public servant in CANADA is starving unless you work for the federal government and are caught in that nightmare of a payroll system. Nurses do not get 9 weeks off, are also paid hourly ...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,332

    pjhawks said:

    good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.

    I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.

    Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?

    The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...

    ... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?

    I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
    Teachers can't reach everyone bud. You know that.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • lukin2006 said:

    lukin2006 said:

    pjhawks said:

    good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.

    I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.

    Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?

    The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...

    ... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?

    I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
    Nurses in Ontario do not work less than school teachers.
    3-4 days per week. Then OT.
    No public servant in CANADA is starving unless you work for the federal government and are caught in that nightmare of a payroll system. Nurses do not get 9 weeks off, are also paid hourly ...
    I'm looking at their collective agreement right now. You should do the same because you are wrong... yup... wrong.

    They work three days a week with opportunities for OT outside of that. Further... a minimum of 20 vacation days and a maximum of 35. Nice!

    I never said they are starving. I said they work fewer days than teachers... which they do, unless they choose OT.

    And to repeat... I'm okay with what they get- they are very valuable. I offered what I have to squash the unsubstantiated 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum than other professionals'.

    Bash away... teacher hater. Bash away!
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087

    lukin2006 said:

    lukin2006 said:

    pjhawks said:

    good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.

    I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.

    Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?

    The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...

    ... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?

    I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
    Nurses in Ontario do not work less than school teachers.
    3-4 days per week. Then OT.
    No public servant in CANADA is starving unless you work for the federal government and are caught in that nightmare of a payroll system. Nurses do not get 9 weeks off, are also paid hourly ...
    I'm looking at their collective agreement right now. You should do the same because you are wrong... yup... wrong.

    They work three days a week with opportunities for OT outside of that. Further... a minimum of 20 vacation days and a maximum of 35. Nice!

    I never said they are starving. I said they work fewer days than teachers... which they do, unless they choose OT.

    And to repeat... I'm okay with what they get- they are very valuable. I offered what I have to squash the unsubstantiated 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum than other professionals'.

    Bash away... teacher hater. Bash away!
    So you looking at every nurse's contract in Canada .... anyways back to your pity party.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Collective Agreements with Hospitals

    https://www.ona.org/ona_members/hospital/collective_agreements.html

    Nurse's contracts in Ontario, happy reading...

    By the way I'm not bashing teachers or any other public servant, all I'm saying is that public servants are doing well in Canada...the large urban centres are areas where public servants may struggle, but not from poor pay but from outrageous cost of living...but that's also their choice to live in those areas and that is a another thread discussion all together.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • lukin2006 said:

    lukin2006 said:

    lukin2006 said:

    pjhawks said:

    good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.

    I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.

    Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?

    The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...

    ... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?

    I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
    Nurses in Ontario do not work less than school teachers.
    3-4 days per week. Then OT.
    No public servant in CANADA is starving unless you work for the federal government and are caught in that nightmare of a payroll system. Nurses do not get 9 weeks off, are also paid hourly ...
    I'm looking at their collective agreement right now. You should do the same because you are wrong... yup... wrong.

    They work three days a week with opportunities for OT outside of that. Further... a minimum of 20 vacation days and a maximum of 35. Nice!

    I never said they are starving. I said they work fewer days than teachers... which they do, unless they choose OT.

    And to repeat... I'm okay with what they get- they are very valuable. I offered what I have to squash the unsubstantiated 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum than other professionals'.

    Bash away... teacher hater. Bash away!
    So you looking at every nurse's contract in Canada .... anyways back to your pity party.
    No. I looked to see what you were saying. I wasn't sure if there was truth to it.

    I don't feel sorry for myself at all. I'm okay with everything. I'd like to see things better of course, but as I said... I made my choices.

    And really lame comeback, man. You get put in your place and you resort to, essentially, sticking your tongue out.

    What is it you do for a living?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Truth to what ... that public servants do very well in Canada? Is that in dispute...the only thing you are are trying to compare is do nurses get more time off than teachers that I could see, based on what I don't know...safe to say nurses are paid hourly so if they work less they would make less...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,592
    Here's a recent article that corroborates the information in the OP article and emphasizes the notion that "educators are undervalued and underpaid." On top of that, teachers in most places (at least here in the U.S.) have ongoing expenses such as continued education which is more and more expensive. Many teachers are still strapped with student debt. And I've seen other article that talk about how, because of cutbacks in support and financing, many teachers choose to buy classroom materials for their students rather than have them go without. I see that in the bookstore all the time.

    http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/08/17/pay-gap-between-public-school-teachers-and-similar-workers-is-wider-than-ever/
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 3,532
    lukin2006 said:

    lukin2006 said:

    lukin2006 said:

    pjhawks said:

    good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.

    I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.

    Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?

    The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...

    ... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?

    I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
    Nurses in Ontario do not work less than school teachers.
    3-4 days per week. Then OT.
    No public servant in CANADA is starving unless you work for the federal government and are caught in that nightmare of a payroll system. Nurses do not get 9 weeks off, are also paid hourly ...
    I'm looking at their collective agreement right now. You should do the same because you are wrong... yup... wrong.

    They work three days a week with opportunities for OT outside of that. Further... a minimum of 20 vacation days and a maximum of 35. Nice!

    I never said they are starving. I said they work fewer days than teachers... which they do, unless they choose OT.

    And to repeat... I'm okay with what they get- they are very valuable. I offered what I have to squash the unsubstantiated 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum than other professionals'.

    Bash away... teacher hater. Bash away!
    So you looking at every nurse's contract in Canada .... anyways back to your pity party.
    Did someone say pity party?

  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087

    lukin2006 said:

    lukin2006 said:

    lukin2006 said:

    pjhawks said:

    good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.

    I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.

    Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?

    The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...

    ... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?

    I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
    Nurses in Ontario do not work less than school teachers.
    3-4 days per week. Then OT.
    No public servant in CANADA is starving unless you work for the federal government and are caught in that nightmare of a payroll system. Nurses do not get 9 weeks off, are also paid hourly ...
    I'm looking at their collective agreement right now. You should do the same because you are wrong... yup... wrong.

    They work three days a week with opportunities for OT outside of that. Further... a minimum of 20 vacation days and a maximum of 35. Nice!

    I never said they are starving. I said they work fewer days than teachers... which they do, unless they choose OT.

    And to repeat... I'm okay with what they get- they are very valuable. I offered what I have to squash the unsubstantiated 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum than other professionals'.

    Bash away... teacher hater. Bash away!
    So you looking at every nurse's contract in Canada .... anyways back to your pity party.
    Did someone say pity party?

    Lol
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • lukin2006 said:

    Truth to what ... that public servants do very well in Canada? Is that in dispute...the only thing you are are trying to compare is do nurses get more time off than teachers that I could see, based on what I don't know...safe to say nurses are paid hourly so if they work less they would make less...

    Geez Lukin...

    It's been suggested that teachers earn as much as other professionals given they work 77% of the days that other professionals work (at a minimum 50 days less).

    I pointed out the fact- alluding to documentation- that this isn't the case. I'm not going to bother repeating the comparison and discrepancies.

    The only thing I really care about at this point is the fact that misinformation isn't spread about.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 7,854

    lukin2006 said:

    Truth to what ... that public servants do very well in Canada? Is that in dispute...the only thing you are are trying to compare is do nurses get more time off than teachers that I could see, based on what I don't know...safe to say nurses are paid hourly so if they work less they would make less...

    Geez Lukin...

    It's been suggested that teachers earn as much as other professionals given they work 77% of the days that other professionals work (at a minimum 50 days less).

    I pointed out the fact- alluding to documentation- that this isn't the case. I'm not going to bother repeating the comparison and discrepancies.

    The only thing I really care about at this point is the fact that misinformation isn't spread about.
    my local school district in Pennsylvania USA non-traditional regular office works days off for 2016-2017.

    October 12th
    November 25th
    December 26th through December 30th
    January 16th
    February 20th
    April 10th through April 14th
    June 21st through June 30th
    All of July - 21 Weekdays
    Most of August - so around 20 weekdays
    Total Days Off for School Year 2016-2017: 64 days

    so just stop with the bullshit teachers don't get more days off. it's insulting to insist they don't.

    thus endeth the lesson
  • This thread has turned to bullshit.
    Teachers deserve a salary commensurate with doctors.
    Both save lives.
    If you didn't have a great teacher growing up....
    Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Both ideas are overwhelming. AE
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 11,132
    edited August 2016
    pjhawks said:

    lukin2006 said:

    Truth to what ... that public servants do very well in Canada? Is that in dispute...the only thing you are are trying to compare is do nurses get more time off than teachers that I could see, based on what I don't know...safe to say nurses are paid hourly so if they work less they would make less...

    Geez Lukin...

    It's been suggested that teachers earn as much as other professionals given they work 77% of the days that other professionals work (at a minimum 50 days less).

    I pointed out the fact- alluding to documentation- that this isn't the case. I'm not going to bother repeating the comparison and discrepancies.

    The only thing I really care about at this point is the fact that misinformation isn't spread about.
    my local school district in Pennsylvania USA non-traditional regular office works days off for 2016-2017.

    October 12th
    November 25th
    December 26th through December 30th
    January 16th
    February 20th
    April 10th through April 14th
    June 21st through June 30th
    All of July - 21 Weekdays
    Most of August - so around 20 weekdays
    Total Days Off for School Year 2016-2017: 64 days

    so just stop with the bullshit teachers don't get more days off. it's insulting to insist they don't.

    thus endeth the lesson
    Okay.

    You've almost got it.

    Now remember... nobody was disputing teachers' time away from the factory.

    You were asserting that teachers worked 'at a minimum 50 days less than any other profession' or '77% days of work other professions worked'. This was the point of contention (point of emphasis here!).

    To convince us... you would need to compare it to some other profession and their scheduled days of work coupled with their pay structure and benefit package.

    I provided some data for you that grossly contradicted your claim... but you bemoaned that data was 'from another country' ... so it didn't count in your eyes.

    It's time to finish your work now. Throw the stake right into the heart of the teaching profession and shut those whiners up once and for all. Exactly how many days do other professions (even one profession) work and what do they get paid so we can make that comparison everyone outside of you and Free fail to see given our simplicity?

    * How's that for teaching? I just spent 30 minutes on one student. On unpaid time no less. I'll likely get a call from a parent now asking why the submission wasn't 'A' quality... so I'll spend another 15 minutes explaining the same thing: why the assignment wasn't completed (even though it looked kind of fancy) and what pjhawks needed to do to make it outstanding. I'll spend another 30 minutes mulling over the situation in my head while pretending to pay attention to my wife or kids telling me something in Charlie Brown's teacher voice.

    ** Can you tell us what you do? How do you make your money? How do you navigate your way through this world? It might help knowing.
    Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,592
    edited August 2016
    pjhawks said:

    lukin2006 said:

    Truth to what ... that public servants do very well in Canada? Is that in dispute...the only thing you are are trying to compare is do nurses get more time off than teachers that I could see, based on what I don't know...safe to say nurses are paid hourly so if they work less they would make less...

    Geez Lukin...

    It's been suggested that teachers earn as much as other professionals given they work 77% of the days that other professionals work (at a minimum 50 days less).

    I pointed out the fact- alluding to documentation- that this isn't the case. I'm not going to bother repeating the comparison and discrepancies.

    The only thing I really care about at this point is the fact that misinformation isn't spread about.
    my local school district in Pennsylvania USA non-traditional regular office works days off for 2016-2017.

    October 12th
    November 25th
    December 26th through December 30th
    January 16th
    February 20th
    April 10th through April 14th
    June 21st through June 30th
    All of July - 21 Weekdays
    Most of August - so around 20 weekdays
    Total Days Off for School Year 2016-2017: 64 days

    so just stop with the bullshit teachers don't get more days off. it's insulting to insist they don't.

    thus endeth the lesson
    I can't tell if you're jealous or just pissed off pjhawks. Look at it this way- do you believe small business owners only work when the store is open? Oh, don't we wish! Same with teaching.

    This fact remains: teachers are underappreciated, under-respected and underpaid.
    Post edited by brianlux on
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,592

    1)This thread has turned to bullshit.
    2)Teachers deserve a salary commensurate with doctors.
    3)Both save lives.
    4)If you didn't have a great teacher growing up....

    1) mostly
    2) 3) and 4) Yes, yes, yes!
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 11,332
    so teacher's in pennsylvania have off (i'll provide a description for each day off the top of my head):
    October 12th: columbus day
    November 25th: thanksgiving
    December 26th through December 30th: winter break
    January 16th: mlk day
    February 20th: president's day
    April 10th through April 14th: spring break
    June 21st through June 30th: start of summer vacation. in new jersey we have contracts until june 30th so june 21-june 30 are paid days off.
    All of July - 21 Weekdays: summer vacation: no pay
    Most of August - so around 20 weekdays: summer vacation no pay
    Total Days Off for School Year 2016-2017: 64 days

    don't all jobs (except first responders and people working in the medical field) get these "banker's holidays" off plus anywhere from 3-6 weeks paid vacation a year? what's the gripe?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • I just wish people would quit calling summer a "vacation."

    It's a furlough. No other salaried professional experiences an annual furlough where they have to fend for themselves for two months.

    And nobody has yet addressed my concern for new teachers who, in the best paying districts, might gross 40K a year.

    In five years in private industry, my 28 year old niece makes as much as I do teaching for 23. AND her company is headquartered in France. You know what means . . . those people never work . . . Hahaha
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,592
    mcgruff10 said:

    so teacher's in pennsylvania have off (i'll provide a description for each day off the top of my head):
    October 12th: columbus day
    November 25th: thanksgiving
    December 26th through December 30th: winter break
    January 16th: mlk day
    February 20th: president's day
    April 10th through April 14th: spring break
    June 21st through June 30th: start of summer vacation. in new jersey we have contracts until june 30th so june 21-june 30 are paid days off.
    All of July - 21 Weekdays: summer vacation: no pay
    Most of August - so around 20 weekdays: summer vacation no pay
    Total Days Off for School Year 2016-2017: 64 days

    don't all jobs (except first responders and people working in the medical field) get these "banker's holidays" off plus anywhere from 3-6 weeks paid vacation a year? what's the gripe?

    Not those of us who are self employed but we are sadomasochistic when it comes to working, haha!
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,592
    edited August 2016

    I just wish people would quit calling summer a "vacation."

    It's a furlough. No other salaried professional experiences an annual furlough where they have to fend for themselves for two months.

    And nobody has yet addressed my concern for new teachers who, in the best paying districts, might gross 40K a year.

    In five years in private industry, my 28 year old niece makes as much as I do teaching for 23. AND her company is headquartered in France. You know what means . . . those people never work . . . Hahaha

    The statistics prove you right, dreams. I'm not sure why a few here don't get that.

    Thank you, teachers!
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 35,543
    lukin2006 said:

    lukin2006 said:

    pjhawks said:

    good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.

    I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.

    Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?

    The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...

    ... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?

    I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
    Nurses in Ontario do not work less than school teachers.
    3-4 days per week. Then OT.
    No public servant in CANADA is starving unless you work for the federal government and are caught in that nightmare of a payroll system. Nurses do not get 9 weeks off, are also paid hourly ...
    Is that the measuring stick now? Not starving?

    (Nurses get paid OT, teachers don't, duh)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    PJ_Soul said:

    lukin2006 said:

    lukin2006 said:

    pjhawks said:

    good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.

    I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.

    Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?

    The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...

    ... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?

    I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
    Nurses in Ontario do not work less than school teachers.
    3-4 days per week. Then OT.
    No public servant in CANADA is starving unless you work for the federal government and are caught in that nightmare of a payroll system. Nurses do not get 9 weeks off, are also paid hourly ...
    Is that the measuring stick now? Not starving?

    (Nurses get paid OT, teachers don't, duh)
    If you want that to be a measuring stick, then so be it. Bye...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 7,854
    if there was one profession that i would think facts couldn't be disputed i would think it would have been teachers. alas though when people get defensive facts start to have shades of gray. shades of gray where working an extra hour or two or three during a workday somehow constitutes working a full extra day. like somehow those extra 2-4 hours is the same as an 8 hour day for other professionals. so be it. this thread has run it's course. hope you all have a nice school year.
  • pjhawks said:

    if there was one profession that i would think facts couldn't be disputed i would think it would have been teachers. alas though when people get defensive facts start to have shades of gray. shades of gray where working an extra hour or two or three during a workday somehow constitutes working a full extra day. like somehow those extra 2-4 hours is the same as an 8 hour day for other professionals. so be it. this thread has run it's course. hope you all have a nice school year.

    So you couldn't do it or didn't want to do it, eh?

    It is ironic you speak to facts because that's what this thread came down to in the end. Teacher's days of work were never in dispute. Their hours of work were to some degree, but in fairness (at least until this somewhat dismissive post), you weren't really challenging those.

    You spent the majority of your time insisting 'days worked' were not on par with other professions. Days worked. And thus, teacher's wages were fair.

    When you were pressed to present a comparison to substantiate your claim, you balked. When presented with a comparison to another profession (public service one at that)... you refuted it insisting it didn't count because that information was from another country. And then... when asked again to draw a comparison... you unfurl teacher's days worked again- something everybody already knows and something not disputed- claiming... 'case closed'.

    I don't think it was a matter of 'case closed' as much as it was a matter of 'mind closed'. You had your opinion and you were sticking to it. You're normally better around here and I sincerely mean that: you don't automatically side with the majority and you typically present yourself fairly well. Our differences aside on this issue, I want you to know I harbour no ill will towards you. I do wish you'd respect the teaching profession, but even though you don't... I respect you and the place you've come to navigating life. Petty arguments aside... it's not easy for anyone.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited August 2016
    "This fact remains: teachers are underappreciated, under-respected and underpaid. "
    pjhawks said:

    if there was one profession that i would think facts couldn't be disputed i would think it would have been teachers. alas though when people get defensive facts start to have shades of gray. shades of gray where working an extra hour or two or three during a workday somehow constitutes working a full extra day. like somehow those extra 2-4 hours is the same as an 8 hour day for other professionals. so be it. this thread has run it's course. hope you all have a nice school year.

    Not only that, but blanket statements such as "teachers are underpaid, underappreciated, don't get enough credit," etc.even after multiple posts in this thread stating "in my state", since every state is different, every teacher is different, unions and tenure allow for bed teachers to continue to work in the field... Continue on. And enjoy the rest of your summer vacation.
    Post edited by Free on
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,288
    edited August 2016
    People that become teachers know all of the alleged downsides before they actually become teachers. If money is that big of a deal, find a new profession if money is your motivating factor.

    I would be a white water rafting guide, but the low pay and and lack of benefits outweighed my love of the game.
    Post edited by Jason P on
  • Jason P said:

    People that become teachers know all of the alleged downsides before they actually become teachers. If money is that big of a deal, find a new profession if money is your motivating factor.

    I would be a white water rafting guide, but the low pay and and lack of benefits outweighed my love of the game.

    There's definitely truth to this, but there's also something to be said for trying to improve conditions too.

    I don't think it should be a case of simply accepting the profession as one with- as you framed it- too many downsides that might discourage someone from entering it.

    We're all stakeholders in public education: if we don't have kids taking advantage of it... we all indirectly need it to be strong (we need good people looking after us when we are old).

    I'm on my way out. I can accept what is on the table for me right now to the end and still be very happy doing my job. I'm honest when I say I'm concerned for the future: your advice is being followed by many. Good people are passing on pursuing the job- men in particular (over 80% of today's teacher are women in my province and that number is rising).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 19,592
    Free said:

    "This fact remains: teachers are underappreciated, under-respected and underpaid. "

    pjhawks said:

    if there was one profession that i would think facts couldn't be disputed i would think it would have been teachers. alas though when people get defensive facts start to have shades of gray. shades of gray where working an extra hour or two or three during a workday somehow constitutes working a full extra day. like somehow those extra 2-4 hours is the same as an 8 hour day for other professionals. so be it. this thread has run it's course. hope you all have a nice school year.

    Not only that, but blanket statements such as "teachers are underpaid, underappreciated, don't get enough credit," etc.even after multiple posts in this thread stating "in my state", since every state is different, every teacher is different, unions and tenure allow for bed teachers to continue to work in the field... Continue on. And enjoy the rest of your summer vacation.

    Hey, careful there Free, if you don't agree with everything I say, people will no longer be able to claim you and I are always in cahoots! :wink:
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,288
    edited August 2016
    ^ (edit: in regards to 30's ... why u mess'n with me B?)

    It may be that the less passionate people are being weeded out. I wanted to be a national park ranger, but with a 4 year degree I would be making less then $25K if (and it was a big if) I could land a full time position. The competition for those positions was intense. I chose to move to another career path as I did not have the passion to commit to that path based on pay.
    Post edited by Jason P on
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 7,854

    pjhawks said:

    if there was one profession that i would think facts couldn't be disputed i would think it would have been teachers. alas though when people get defensive facts start to have shades of gray. shades of gray where working an extra hour or two or three during a workday somehow constitutes working a full extra day. like somehow those extra 2-4 hours is the same as an 8 hour day for other professionals. so be it. this thread has run it's course. hope you all have a nice school year.

    So you couldn't do it or didn't want to do it, eh?

    It is ironic you speak to facts because that's what this thread came down to in the end. Teacher's days of work were never in dispute. Their hours of work were to some degree, but in fairness (at least until this somewhat dismissive post), you weren't really challenging those.

    You spent the majority of your time insisting 'days worked' were not on par with other professions. Days worked. And thus, teacher's wages were fair.

    When you were pressed to present a comparison to substantiate your claim, you balked. When presented with a comparison to another profession (public service one at that)... you refuted it insisting it didn't count because that information was from another country. And then... when asked again to draw a comparison... you unfurl teacher's days worked again- something everybody already knows and something not disputed- claiming... 'case closed'.

    I don't think it was a matter of 'case closed' as much as it was a matter of 'mind closed'. You had your opinion and you were sticking to it. You're normally better around here and I sincerely mean that: you don't automatically side with the majority and you typically present yourself fairly well. Our differences aside on this issue, I want you to know I harbour no ill will towards you. I do wish you'd respect the teaching profession, but even though you don't... I respect you and the place you've come to navigating life. Petty arguments aside... it's not easy for anyone.
    except mine is not an opinion. also i know you've presented arguments how it works in Canada. As i stated i have no idea how things work up there. clearly there are difference as most nurses in the usa as far as i know are hourly employees not salaried. since i have no idea i don't feel like i can comment on those comparisons you made.

    i have a ton of respect for teachers and what they do. i have a few in my family and friends/acquantantces. if you go through my posts the only things i have started are in reference to days worked. never once said anything negative about teachers and the work they do. i think teachers work very hard and obviously are vitally important.

    i rarely take ill will from what people right on this message board (ok maybe one guy in the philly sports threads in the AET but that is different) so no harm done here.
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