Good rant, Who Princess. I know I raised my son to respect women and as far as I know he has never even approached the lines of impropriety. I have no tolerance for the attitude or behavior exhibited by this ex-Stanford student, but am equally appalled by his father. Disgusting pigs.Harsh examples should continue to be made of these men. Criminal charges and public shaming.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Enkidu, I think I've alternated between sad and angry the last few days. I agree, it's ridiculous the things we have to worry about these days.
On a lighter note, the story about your husband reminds me of my 89 year old mom. When I was a teenager and in my 20s, she was always warning me to keep an eye on my drink at parties or public places because someone might slip LSD into it. I never heard of anyone having LSD put into their drink and can't imagine why someone would do that but I always assured her that I was being careful.
"The stars are all connected to the brain."
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,689
Where's the mother in all this? I don't recall reading anything about her (if she's still in the picture).
Also, that stupida fucking mugshot makes me want to junk-punch him even more.
Have seen a couple pictures from during trial that showed her wlaking wiith hiim. I too would like to hear what she has to say.
I wonder, also, what dear old dad would have to say if son Brock , was daughter Brock on the flip side of this. Would the predtator have just been "getting 20 minutes of action"?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Where's the mother in all this? I don't recall reading anything about her (if she's still in the picture).
Also, that stupida fucking mugshot makes me want to junk-punch him even more.
Have seen a couple pictures from during trial that showed her wlaking wiith hiim. I too would like to hear what she has to say.
I wonder, also, what dear old dad would have to say if son Brock , was daughter Brock on the flip side of this. Would the predtator have just been "getting 20 minutes of action"?
mickey, I've read about parents who - despite their child committing a horrific crime - standing strong by them with their love while at the same time in no way defending their actions.
This is what blows my mind about this; the father is MAKING EXCUSES, willfully blind or just a fucking clueless idiot. I would hope his mother isn't cowed under the mindset of her husband.
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,689
I don't think that was a rant, WP. It made me sad though. My husband was at a work party at a bar last week and a young woman he was sitting with got up, put a napkin on top of her drink and said, "Will you watch my drink? I have to go to the bathroom." And of course he did, but when he told me the story it made us both sad. We're of an age where back in the Dark Ages you could go to a party or a bar and not worry that somebody would drop something in your drink.
When did that become a thing? And why?
There's a piece floating around online about the Swedish grad students who rescued the girl from Stanford rape boy - again, I think/hope there are more good people in the world than bad.
I wonder if thsoe two on the bikes hadn't been Swedes but Americans , would they still have intervened?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Everybody has talked about the men's role in this rape: they're saying that the rapist and his father are pieces of shit.
It goes without saying that most people on here with sons have sons that we will never read of on these boards. I'm not going to brag about mine, but I could- he's freaking awesome in so many ways (he's infinitely greater than me). I love how he treats the women in his life.
I don't think one person on here has suggested this woman was responsible for what happened. People have merely alluded to the need for women to be very careful when out- the reason for this is the fact that there are going to be some men that will prey upon them if the opportunity presents itself. This has been the case forever.
Do you have a daughter? If you do (or if you did)... don't you try to offer her what you can so she can be safe?
Thirty, what I posted wasn't to call out the men in this thread or the men on this board. And while I don't think there has been blaming toward the victim in this particular discussion, I've heard/seen it in other places. This thread has also danced around the subject without casting blame, essentially saying that she made a poor choice. I agree, and also believe that all of us make poor choices at times, usually without those kinds of consequences. As I've said, this can be opportunity to talk to kids, male or female.
I don't have kids. I have a niece and 4 nephews. I am especially close to 2 of those nephews. They have grown into awesome men that I love and admire. As for as what I can offer a young person, I encourage everyone I know, of any age, to always be aware of their personal safety and to never let anyone belittle them for it.
What I would like to see men do, besides talking to their sons, would be to let other men know that this isn't a topic to laugh or make jokes about. After being a rape crisis volunteer, I can tell you that every man who posts here knows someone who was raped. They may not be aware of it, but I promise you, they know someone. Always keep in mind that in any given situation, work or social, if women are present there is a good chance that one or more of them have experienced sexual assault. And remind other men about it as well. People tend to think of it as isolated incidents and more likely to happen in certain circumstances. If you believe that the women you care about are at risk, you will encourage them to take precautions, and I consider that one of the most loving things you can do.
I think we are obviously on the same page; however, I want you to know that the crime of rape is hardly a laughing matter to me.
I don't know anyone who laughs or jokes about it. In fact, most I know would prefer castration or death to rapists. Most men I know also care very deeply for women and this is why we speak to the need for women to take precautionary measures- some of our brothers are not to be trusted and are scum.
Every time cases like this are brought to light, the male discussions I'm a part of are marked with anger and frustration. If you let my circle of friends handle justice... fast swimmer wouldn't have received 6 months in a country club. I can assure you this.
Also... I wasn't asking if you had kids to dismiss your ideas in the event you didn't. I was asking because I was sure if you did... you'd be taking the steps to make them aware of the potential evil in the world so they would stand a better chance of staying safe.
And, from what you said, it sounds as if you would.
Thanks, Thirty, I agree we are on the same page. I wish I didn't encounter people who joke about rape. It's definitely not as common as it was years ago but it still happens occasionally. More often, I've been teased by co-workers because I suggest safety measures, like walking out together at the end of the day, especially in winter when it gets dark early. It makes me kind of sad that people can be so flippant about looking out for each other.
And no worries about the kids question. It's a natural assumption. I have a lot of respect for people who are trying their best to raise their kids to be good people. A very hard job, and I'm not sure how I'd have done at it.
Jose, you bring up something that has been bothering me the last few days, ever since this story received national attention.
Someone here said previously that they had real life experience with a rape victim. I have real life experience, too, and a lot of it. I understand that this is a good time for parents to talk to their daughters about taking care in certain situations, about not drinking to excess. Those are good lessons for young women to learn. They should also learn about how to assess situations, how to have a back up plan to remove themselves from bad situations, and how to trust their instincts. But it has to be expressed appropriately. Much of the discussion around this case has focused on the victim being partly culpable. Sorry, she's not, and when things are expressed such a way as to assign blame to a victim, it's easy to understand why rape is so under-reported.
I want to say that in all the talk about how young women (and believe me, older women too) should take care, I am really fucking tired. Tired of how the onus to prevent rape is placed on women. Tired of scoping out every situation, where should I park, looking around, behind, under my car, making sure I have deadbolt locks on the door of my home, keeping my gas tank full so that I don't have to stop at night, taking care where I drive, don't roll my window all the way day down if someone happens to speak to me. Don't get on an elevator if the only other passenger is a man. Avoid streets, parks, any public place where I may have to walk alone with no safe place around. I have been watching out for so long that it's second nature to me.
So what I want to know in all of this is, what are men saying to their sons? Are they telling them that taking advantage of vulnerable people is wrong? Why do professional athletes all seem to act like thugs? Why aren't they saying to young men that you can be strong without being brutal, that how you live your life off the field or the court is even more important than how well you play a game?
I'm not on a tear about the men on this board or in this discussion. Far from it. Most of the men I've known have been good people. My kind, caring husband is a prince. But this situation reminds me that so many young men aren't getting the right kind of messages from the people they respect. And that will only change if men decide to change it.
Rant over.
No doubt good upstanding morals have to be instilled by the parents , I know for a fact that I've had multiple talks with my 22 yr old son who attends WVU about being aware of every scenario that can get him in trouble in other words always have command of your senses in social settings & I've also had talks with my 19 yr old daughter about being safe in social settings too ! At party's , don't accept drinks from anyone at all , don't leave your drink without you holding it , don't walk alone etc etc etc just like you pointed out that's how a woman has to be guarded which really is a damn shame !!!! But I know for sure I can say with out a doubt I've taught my son how precious women really are !!!!
jesus greets me looks just like me ....
0
Options
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122
A Stanford Professor that is leading the way to have the judge that handed down that sentence to have him recalled.....
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Jose, you bring up something that has been bothering me the last few days, ever since this story received national attention.
Someone here said previously that they had real life experience with a rape victim. I have real life experience, too, and a lot of it. I understand that this is a good time for parents to talk to their daughters about taking care in certain situations, about not drinking to excess. Those are good lessons for young women to learn. They should also learn about how to assess situations, how to have a back up plan to remove themselves from bad situations, and how to trust their instincts. But it has to be expressed appropriately. Much of the discussion around this case has focused on the victim being partly culpable. Sorry, she's not, and when things are expressed such a way as to assign blame to a victim, it's easy to understand why rape is so under-reported.
I want to say that in all the talk about how young women (and believe me, older women too) should take care, I am really fucking tired. Tired of how the onus to prevent rape is placed on women. Tired of scoping out every situation, where should I park, looking around, behind, under my car, making sure I have deadbolt locks on the door of my home, keeping my gas tank full so that I don't have to stop at night, taking care where I drive, don't roll my window all the way day down if someone happens to speak to me. Don't get on an elevator if the only other passenger is a man. Avoid streets, parks, any public place where I may have to walk alone with no safe place around. I have been watching out for so long that it's second nature to me.
So what I want to know in all of this is, what are men saying to their sons? Are they telling them that taking advantage of vulnerable people is wrong? Why do professional athletes all seem to act like thugs? Why aren't they saying to young men that you can be strong without being brutal, that how you live your life off the field or the court is even more important than how well you play a game?
I'm not on a tear about the men on this board or in this discussion. Far from it. Most of the men I've known have been good people. My kind, caring husband is a prince. But this situation reminds me that so many young men aren't getting the right kind of messages from the people they respect. And that will only change if men decide to change it.
Rant over.
No doubt good upstanding morals have to be instilled by the parents , I know for a fact that I've had multiple talks with my 22 yr old son who attends WVU about being aware of every scenario that can get him in trouble in other words always have command of your senses in social settings & I've also had talks with my 19 yr old daughter about being safe in social settings too ! At party's , don't accept drinks from anyone at all , don't leave your drink without you holding it , don't walk alone etc etc etc just like you pointed out that's how a woman has to be guarded which really is a damn shame !!!! But I know for sure I can say with out a doubt I've taught my son how precious women really are !!!!
I used to go to pub crawls over there in Morgantown. Had a lot of fun there.
this is in response to the backlash leslie rasmussen faced when her character statement on behalf of the convicted was made public ... it was on her fb page but has since been deleted ...
Two months ago, I was asked to write a character statement for use in the sentencing phase of Brock Turner’s trial. Per the request of the court, I was asked to write this statement in an effort to shed light on Brock’s character as I knew it to be during my childhood, adolescence and young adulthood when I interacted with him as a classmate and friend. I felt confident in my ability to share my straightforward opinion of him and how I knew him. I also felt compelled to share my deep concern over the misuse of alcohol that was a well-established contributor in this case. Beyond sharing my personal experience with Brock, I made an appeal to the judge to consider the effect that alcohol played in this tragedy.
I understand that this appeal has now provided an opportunity for people to misconstrue my ideas into a distortion that suggests I sympathize with sex offenses and those who commit them or that I blame the victim involved. Nothing could be farther from the truth, and I apologize for anything my statement has done to suggest that I don’t feel enormous sympathy for the victim and her suffering.
Perhaps I should have included in my statement the following ideas that explain my perspective on the complexities of what may have happened. As a young female musician who has spent years (since I was in fourth grade) performing as a drummer in live music venues, clubs, and bars with my two sisters, I have had the unique opportunity to observe over 10 years of public American drinking culture and the problems that invariably arise through alcohol misuse. I have watched friends, acquaintances and complete strangers transform before my eyes over the course of sometimes very short periods of time, into people I could barely recognize as a result of alcohol overconsumption. I am currently 20 years old. I have made these observations through sober eyes. I have been repeatedly reminded by my family and coached by police to hold my personal sobriety closely and seriously because of the industry I work in and the risks to my own life that I could face as a young woman playing regularly in venues across the country where alcohol is served.
Additionally, I have grown up and currently reside in a university town that is affected every year by the tragic consequences resulting from undergraduate students’ excessive enthusiasm for binge drinking. Student arrests, violence, injuries, and sexual assaults occur with some regularity, and I have often wondered why this culture continues to thrive seemingly unquestioned and unchecked.
There is nothing more sad than the unnecessary, destructive and enormous toll that overuse, misuse and abuse of alcohol and drugs play in people’s lives, and I don’t think my effort to point this out in confidence to a judge while commenting on Brock Turner’s character, as the sober person I knew him to be, was an irresponsible or reckless decision. Unfortunately, due to the overzealous nature of social media and the lack of confidence and privacy in which my letter to the judge was held, I am now thrust into the public eye to defend my position on this matter in the court of public opinion. Now, my choices to defer college to write and play music, to finally introduce 10 years of hard work to a national audience while working consistently and intentionally on my own personal and professional integrity, has led to an uproar of judgement and hatred unleashed on me, my band and my family.
I know that Brock Turner was tried and rightfully convicted of sexual assault. I realize that this crime caused enormous pain for the victim. I don’t condone, support, or sympathize with the offense or the offender. I was asked by a court in California to provide a character statement as a standard and necessary part of the sentencing process.
I believe that Brock’s character was seriously affected by the alcohol he consumed, and I felt that the court needed to consider this issue during their sentencing deliberations.
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I find it rich (not to mention insulting) when rape is referred to as "sexual assault".
I find it rich (not to mention insulting) when rape is referred to as "sexual assault".
In Canada rape is not used as a legal term at all. It's not in the Criminal Code. Instead the Criminal Code puts it like this: "Section 271 criminalizes "Sexual assault", section 272 criminalizes "Sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm" and section 273 criminalizes "Aggravated sexual assault". (and then there are legal definitions of consent or lack thereof outlined as well). I think that this was done in order to make charges very specific in each particular case, not to semantically minimize the crime...... But I agree that, while not purposefully, it does kind of do that in a lot of people's minds, since the term rape is so ubiquitous.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
0
Options
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,617
I find it rich (not to mention insulting) when rape is referred to as "sexual assault".
I actually thought they were different offenses. rape being actual force able sexual intercourse, sexual assault being unwanted sexual advances via other means (touching, fingering, etc).
I find it rich (not to mention insulting) when rape is referred to as "sexual assault".
I actually thought they were different offenses. rape being actual force able sexual intercourse, sexual assault being unwanted sexual advances via other means (touching, fingering, etc).
Yeah, I had the same impression when it comes to the USA's laws.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
this is in response to the backlash leslie rasmussen faced when her character statement on behalf of the convicted was made public ... it was on her fb page but has since been deleted ...
Two months ago, I was asked to write a character statement for use in the sentencing phase of Brock Turner’s trial. Per the request of the court, I was asked to write this statement in an effort to shed light on Brock’s character as I knew it to be during my childhood, adolescence and young adulthood when I interacted with him as a classmate and friend. I felt confident in my ability to share my straightforward opinion of him and how I knew him. I also felt compelled to share my deep concern over the misuse of alcohol that was a well-established contributor in this case. Beyond sharing my personal experience with Brock, I made an appeal to the judge to consider the effect that alcohol played in this tragedy.
I understand that this appeal has now provided an opportunity for people to misconstrue my ideas into a distortion that suggests I sympathize with sex offenses and those who commit them or that I blame the victim involved. Nothing could be farther from the truth, and I apologize for anything my statement has done to suggest that I don’t feel enormous sympathy for the victim and her suffering.
Perhaps I should have included in my statement the following ideas that explain my perspective on the complexities of what may have happened. As a young female musician who has spent years (since I was in fourth grade) performing as a drummer in live music venues, clubs, and bars with my two sisters, I have had the unique opportunity to observe over 10 years of public American drinking culture and the problems that invariably arise through alcohol misuse. I have watched friends, acquaintances and complete strangers transform before my eyes over the course of sometimes very short periods of time, into people I could barely recognize as a result of alcohol overconsumption. I am currently 20 years old. I have made these observations through sober eyes. I have been repeatedly reminded by my family and coached by police to hold my personal sobriety closely and seriously because of the industry I work in and the risks to my own life that I could face as a young woman playing regularly in venues across the country where alcohol is served.
Additionally, I have grown up and currently reside in a university town that is affected every year by the tragic consequences resulting from undergraduate students’ excessive enthusiasm for binge drinking. Student arrests, violence, injuries, and sexual assaults occur with some regularity, and I have often wondered why this culture continues to thrive seemingly unquestioned and unchecked.
There is nothing more sad than the unnecessary, destructive and enormous toll that overuse, misuse and abuse of alcohol and drugs play in people’s lives, and I don’t think my effort to point this out in confidence to a judge while commenting on Brock Turner’s character, as the sober person I knew him to be, was an irresponsible or reckless decision. Unfortunately, due to the overzealous nature of social media and the lack of confidence and privacy in which my letter to the judge was held, I am now thrust into the public eye to defend my position on this matter in the court of public opinion. Now, my choices to defer college to write and play music, to finally introduce 10 years of hard work to a national audience while working consistently and intentionally on my own personal and professional integrity, has led to an uproar of judgement and hatred unleashed on me, my band and my family.
I know that Brock Turner was tried and rightfully convicted of sexual assault. I realize that this crime caused enormous pain for the victim. I don’t condone, support, or sympathize with the offense or the offender. I was asked by a court in California to provide a character statement as a standard and necessary part of the sentencing process.
I believe that Brock’s character was seriously affected by the alcohol he consumed, and I felt that the court needed to consider this issue during their sentencing deliberations.
She did say this in her letter, I don’t think it’s fair to base the fate of the next ten + years of his life on the decision of a girl who doesn’t remember anything but the amount she drank to press charges against him.
And this. This is completely different from a woman getting kidnapped and raped as she is walking to her car in a parking lot. This is a rapist. These are not rapists. These are idiot boys and girls having too much to drink and not being aware of their surroundings and having clouded judgement. I’m not saying that is every case because I know there are young men that take advantage of young women and vice versa, but I know for a fact that Brock is not one of these people. He is respectful and caring, talented and smart enough to know better.
And this. I would not be writing this letter if I had any doubt in my mind that he is innocent.
I'm sure the vast majority of these cases are handled properly in the US and the odd time it isn't, such as this time, we hear about it because it is surprising news. So I'll give the justice department the benefit of the doubt (proofreading this post this part sounds yucky lol) that they make mistakes from time to time - but this is worse than just a mistake, it's freaking inexplicably incorrect. Is there a law where the department, upon reviewing it during his 6 month sentence, realize they totally goofed and extend the sentence for a more appropriate length of time? If not, there should be.
I'm sure the vast majority of these cases are handled properly in the US and the odd time it isn't, such as this time, we hear about it because it is surprising news. So I'll give the justice department the benefit of the doubt (proofreading this post this part sounds yucky lol) that they make mistakes from time to time - but this is worse than just a mistake, it's freaking inexplicably incorrect. Is there a law where the department, upon reviewing it during his 6 month sentence, realize they totally goofed and extend the sentence for a more appropriate length of time? If not, there should be.
I disagree with such a law. If it is found that this judge was biased jn any way towards the defendant, then by all means, reprimand him. But to have a person be sentenced twice for the same conviction does not sit well with me.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
I'm sure the vast majority of these cases are handled properly in the US and the odd time it isn't, such as this time, we hear about it because it is surprising news. So I'll give the justice department the benefit of the doubt (proofreading this post this part sounds yucky lol) that they make mistakes from time to time - but this is worse than just a mistake, it's freaking inexplicably incorrect. Is there a law where the department, upon reviewing it during his 6 month sentence, realize they totally goofed and extend the sentence for a more appropriate length of time? If not, there should be.
I disagree with such a law. If it is found that this judge was biased jn any way towards the defendant, then by all means, reprimand him. But to have a person be sentenced twice for the same conviction does not sit well with me.
Hmm hearing that from someone else's POV makes me agree. You're right. The person who gave the sentence should be punished. But I still feel like the offender should have to pay a more significant price
0
Options
F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,617
this is in response to the backlash leslie rasmussen faced when her character statement on behalf of the convicted was made public ... it was on her fb page but has since been deleted ...
Two months ago, I was asked to write a character statement for use in the sentencing phase of Brock Turner’s trial. Per the request of the court, I was asked to write this statement in an effort to shed light on Brock’s character as I knew it to be during my childhood, adolescence and young adulthood when I interacted with him as a classmate and friend. I felt confident in my ability to share my straightforward opinion of him and how I knew him. I also felt compelled to share my deep concern over the misuse of alcohol that was a well-established contributor in this case. Beyond sharing my personal experience with Brock, I made an appeal to the judge to consider the effect that alcohol played in this tragedy.
I understand that this appeal has now provided an opportunity for people to misconstrue my ideas into a distortion that suggests I sympathize with sex offenses and those who commit them or that I blame the victim involved. Nothing could be farther from the truth, and I apologize for anything my statement has done to suggest that I don’t feel enormous sympathy for the victim and her suffering.
Perhaps I should have included in my statement the following ideas that explain my perspective on the complexities of what may have happened. As a young female musician who has spent years (since I was in fourth grade) performing as a drummer in live music venues, clubs, and bars with my two sisters, I have had the unique opportunity to observe over 10 years of public American drinking culture and the problems that invariably arise through alcohol misuse. I have watched friends, acquaintances and complete strangers transform before my eyes over the course of sometimes very short periods of time, into people I could barely recognize as a result of alcohol overconsumption. I am currently 20 years old. I have made these observations through sober eyes. I have been repeatedly reminded by my family and coached by police to hold my personal sobriety closely and seriously because of the industry I work in and the risks to my own life that I could face as a young woman playing regularly in venues across the country where alcohol is served.
Additionally, I have grown up and currently reside in a university town that is affected every year by the tragic consequences resulting from undergraduate students’ excessive enthusiasm for binge drinking. Student arrests, violence, injuries, and sexual assaults occur with some regularity, and I have often wondered why this culture continues to thrive seemingly unquestioned and unchecked.
There is nothing more sad than the unnecessary, destructive and enormous toll that overuse, misuse and abuse of alcohol and drugs play in people’s lives, and I don’t think my effort to point this out in confidence to a judge while commenting on Brock Turner’s character, as the sober person I knew him to be, was an irresponsible or reckless decision. Unfortunately, due to the overzealous nature of social media and the lack of confidence and privacy in which my letter to the judge was held, I am now thrust into the public eye to defend my position on this matter in the court of public opinion. Now, my choices to defer college to write and play music, to finally introduce 10 years of hard work to a national audience while working consistently and intentionally on my own personal and professional integrity, has led to an uproar of judgement and hatred unleashed on me, my band and my family.
I know that Brock Turner was tried and rightfully convicted of sexual assault. I realize that this crime caused enormous pain for the victim. I don’t condone, support, or sympathize with the offense or the offender. I was asked by a court in California to provide a character statement as a standard and necessary part of the sentencing process.
I believe that Brock’s character was seriously affected by the alcohol he consumed, and I felt that the court needed to consider this issue during their sentencing deliberations.
She did say this in her letter, I don’t think it’s fair to base the fate of the next ten + years of his life on the decision of a girl who doesn’t remember anything but the amount she drank to press charges against him.
And this. This is completely different from a woman getting kidnapped and raped as she is walking to her car in a parking lot. This is a rapist. These are not rapists. These are idiot boys and girls having too much to drink and not being aware of their surroundings and having clouded judgement. I’m not saying that is every case because I know there are young men that take advantage of young women and vice versa, but I know for a fact that Brock is not one of these people. He is respectful and caring, talented and smart enough to know better.
And this. I would not be writing this letter if I had any doubt in my mind that he is innocent.
I'm sure the vast majority of these cases are handled properly in the US and the odd time it isn't, such as this time, we hear about it because it is surprising news. So I'll give the justice department the benefit of the doubt (proofreading this post this part sounds yucky lol) that they make mistakes from time to time - but this is worse than just a mistake, it's freaking inexplicably incorrect. Is there a law where the department, upon reviewing it during his 6 month sentence, realize they totally goofed and extend the sentence for a more appropriate length of time? If not, there should be.
I disagree with such a law. If it is found that this judge was biased jn any way towards the defendant, then by all means, reprimand him. But to have a person be sentenced twice for the same conviction does not sit well with me.
Yeah, I agree. Once a verdict is reached and a sentence given for the crime, that's the end of the story as far as that goes. Don't want to go down that slippery slope.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
this is in response to the backlash leslie rasmussen faced when her character statement on behalf of the convicted was made public ... it was on her fb page but has since been deleted ...
Two months ago, I was asked to write a character statement for use in the sentencing phase of Brock Turner’s trial. Per the request of the court, I was asked to write this statement in an effort to shed light on Brock’s character as I knew it to be during my childhood, adolescence and young adulthood when I interacted with him as a classmate and friend. I felt confident in my ability to share my straightforward opinion of him and how I knew him. I also felt compelled to share my deep concern over the misuse of alcohol that was a well-established contributor in this case. Beyond sharing my personal experience with Brock, I made an appeal to the judge to consider the effect that alcohol played in this tragedy.
I understand that this appeal has now provided an opportunity for people to misconstrue my ideas into a distortion that suggests I sympathize with sex offenses and those who commit them or that I blame the victim involved. Nothing could be farther from the truth, and I apologize for anything my statement has done to suggest that I don’t feel enormous sympathy for the victim and her suffering.
Perhaps I should have included in my statement the following ideas that explain my perspective on the complexities of what may have happened. As a young female musician who has spent years (since I was in fourth grade) performing as a drummer in live music venues, clubs, and bars with my two sisters, I have had the unique opportunity to observe over 10 years of public American drinking culture and the problems that invariably arise through alcohol misuse. I have watched friends, acquaintances and complete strangers transform before my eyes over the course of sometimes very short periods of time, into people I could barely recognize as a result of alcohol overconsumption. I am currently 20 years old. I have made these observations through sober eyes. I have been repeatedly reminded by my family and coached by police to hold my personal sobriety closely and seriously because of the industry I work in and the risks to my own life that I could face as a young woman playing regularly in venues across the country where alcohol is served.
Additionally, I have grown up and currently reside in a university town that is affected every year by the tragic consequences resulting from undergraduate students’ excessive enthusiasm for binge drinking. Student arrests, violence, injuries, and sexual assaults occur with some regularity, and I have often wondered why this culture continues to thrive seemingly unquestioned and unchecked.
There is nothing more sad than the unnecessary, destructive and enormous toll that overuse, misuse and abuse of alcohol and drugs play in people’s lives, and I don’t think my effort to point this out in confidence to a judge while commenting on Brock Turner’s character, as the sober person I knew him to be, was an irresponsible or reckless decision. Unfortunately, due to the overzealous nature of social media and the lack of confidence and privacy in which my letter to the judge was held, I am now thrust into the public eye to defend my position on this matter in the court of public opinion. Now, my choices to defer college to write and play music, to finally introduce 10 years of hard work to a national audience while working consistently and intentionally on my own personal and professional integrity, has led to an uproar of judgement and hatred unleashed on me, my band and my family.
I know that Brock Turner was tried and rightfully convicted of sexual assault. I realize that this crime caused enormous pain for the victim. I don’t condone, support, or sympathize with the offense or the offender. I was asked by a court in California to provide a character statement as a standard and necessary part of the sentencing process.
I believe that Brock’s character was seriously affected by the alcohol he consumed, and I felt that the court needed to consider this issue during their sentencing deliberations.
She did say this in her letter, I don’t think it’s fair to base the fate of the next ten + years of his life on the decision of a girl who doesn’t remember anything but the amount she drank to press charges against him.
And this. This is completely different from a woman getting kidnapped and raped as she is walking to her car in a parking lot. This is a rapist. These are not rapists. These are idiot boys and girls having too much to drink and not being aware of their surroundings and having clouded judgement. I’m not saying that is every case because I know there are young men that take advantage of young women and vice versa, but I know for a fact that Brock is not one of these people. He is respectful and caring, talented and smart enough to know better.
And this. I would not be writing this letter if I had any doubt in my mind that he is innocent.
what this character witness and even the assholes father fail to mention is that TWO PEOPLE caught him in the act. it's NOT her word against his. it's not the word of an intoxicated woman vs. an intoxicated man like so many campus sexual assaults. it can't possibly be any more clear he did it.
0
Options
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122
I'm sure the vast majority of these cases are handled properly in the US and the odd time it isn't, such as this time, we hear about it because it is surprising news. So I'll give the justice department the benefit of the doubt (proofreading this post this part sounds yucky lol) that they make mistakes from time to time - but this is worse than just a mistake, it's freaking inexplicably incorrect. Is there a law where the department, upon reviewing it during his 6 month sentence, realize they totally goofed and extend the sentence for a more appropriate length of time? If not, there should be.
I disagree with such a law. If it is found that this judge was biased jn any way towards the defendant, then by all means, reprimand him. But to have a person be sentenced twice for the same conviction does not sit well with me.
The judge may have been biased in a sense. He was a a jock lacrosse player at Stanford and may have used his position in sentencing to give another jock scholarship swimmer a break and certainly did in this case.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I find it rich (not to mention insulting) when rape is referred to as "sexual assault".
I actually thought they were different offenses. rape being actual force able sexual intercourse, sexual assault being unwanted sexual advances via other means (touching, fingering, etc).
But she was raped, not sexually assaulted. This backtracking idiot letter-writer referred to it as such.
I'm sure the vast majority of these cases are handled properly in the US and the odd time it isn't, such as this time, we hear about it because it is surprising news. So I'll give the justice department the benefit of the doubt (proofreading this post this part sounds yucky lol) that they make mistakes from time to time - but this is worse than just a mistake, it's freaking inexplicably incorrect. Is there a law where the department, upon reviewing it during his 6 month sentence, realize they totally goofed and extend the sentence for a more appropriate length of time? If not, there should be.
I disagree with such a law. If it is found that this judge was biased jn any way towards the defendant, then by all means, reprimand him. But to have a person be sentenced twice for the same conviction does not sit well with me.
The judge may have been biased in a sense. He was a a jock lacrosse player at Stanford and may have used his position in sentencing to give another jock scholarship swimmer a break and certainly did in this case.
Peace
Then the judge should be reprimanded if it is found he wasn't using proper judgment. The sentence shouldn't be changed. As idiotic as it is.
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
Comments
On a lighter note, the story about your husband reminds me of my 89 year old mom. When I was a teenager and in my 20s, she was always warning me to keep an eye on my drink at parties or public places because someone might slip LSD into it. I never heard of anyone having LSD put into their drink and can't imagine why someone would do that but I always assured her that I was being careful.
I too would like to hear what she has to say.
I wonder, also, what dear old dad would have to say if son Brock , was daughter Brock on the flip side of this. Would the predtator have just been "getting 20 minutes of action"?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
This is what blows my mind about this; the father is MAKING EXCUSES, willfully blind or just a fucking clueless idiot. I would hope his mother isn't cowed under the mindset of her husband.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Everybody has talked about the men's role in this rape: they're saying that the rapist and his father are pieces of shit.
It goes without saying that most people on here with sons have sons that we will never read of on these boards. I'm not going to brag about mine, but I could- he's freaking awesome in so many ways (he's infinitely greater than me). I love how he treats the women in his life.
I don't think one person on here has suggested this woman was responsible for what happened. People have merely alluded to the need for women to be very careful when out- the reason for this is the fact that there are going to be some men that will prey upon them if the opportunity presents itself. This has been the case forever.
Do you have a daughter? If you do (or if you did)... don't you try to offer her what you can so she can be safe?
I don't have kids. I have a niece and 4 nephews. I am especially close to 2 of those nephews. They have grown into awesome men that I love and admire. As for as what I can offer a young person, I encourage everyone I know, of any age, to always be aware of their personal safety and to never let anyone belittle them for it.
What I would like to see men do, besides talking to their sons, would be to let other men know that this isn't a topic to laugh or make jokes about. After being a rape crisis volunteer, I can tell you that every man who posts here knows someone who was raped. They may not be aware of it, but I promise you, they know someone. Always keep in mind that in any given situation, work or social, if women are present there is a good chance that one or more of them have experienced sexual assault. And remind other men about it as well. People tend to think of it as isolated incidents and more likely to happen in certain circumstances. If you believe that the women you care about are at risk, you will encourage them to take precautions, and I consider that one of the most loving things you can do.
I think we are obviously on the same page; however, I want you to know that the crime of rape is hardly a laughing matter to me.
I don't know anyone who laughs or jokes about it. In fact, most I know would prefer castration or death to rapists. Most men I know also care very deeply for women and this is why we speak to the need for women to take precautionary measures- some of our brothers are not to be trusted and are scum.
Every time cases like this are brought to light, the male discussions I'm a part of are marked with anger and frustration. If you let my circle of friends handle justice... fast swimmer wouldn't have received 6 months in a country club. I can assure you this.
And, from what you said, it sounds as if you would.
Cheers.
And no worries about the kids question. It's a natural assumption. I have a lot of respect for people who are trying their best to raise their kids to be good people. A very hard job, and I'm not sure how I'd have done at it.
http://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/8/meet_the_law_professor_leading_a
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Two months ago, I was asked to write a character statement for use in the sentencing phase of Brock Turner’s trial. Per the request of the court, I was asked to write this statement in an effort to shed light on Brock’s character as I knew it to be during my childhood, adolescence and young adulthood when I interacted with him as a classmate and friend. I felt confident in my ability to share my straightforward opinion of him and how I knew him. I also felt compelled to share my deep concern over the misuse of alcohol that was a well-established contributor in this case. Beyond sharing my personal experience with Brock, I made an appeal to the judge to consider the effect that alcohol played in this tragedy.
I understand that this appeal has now provided an opportunity for people to misconstrue my ideas into a distortion that suggests I sympathize with sex offenses and those who commit them or that I blame the victim involved. Nothing could be farther from the truth, and I apologize for anything my statement has done to suggest that I don’t feel enormous sympathy for the victim and her suffering.
Perhaps I should have included in my statement the following ideas that explain my perspective on the complexities of what may have happened. As a young female musician who has spent years (since I was in fourth grade) performing as a drummer in live music venues, clubs, and bars with my two sisters, I have had the unique opportunity to observe over 10 years of public American drinking culture and the problems that invariably arise through alcohol misuse. I have watched friends, acquaintances and complete strangers transform before my eyes over the course of sometimes very short periods of time, into people I could barely recognize as a result of alcohol overconsumption. I am currently 20 years old. I have made these observations through sober eyes. I have been repeatedly reminded by my family and coached by police to hold my personal sobriety closely and seriously because of the industry I work in and the risks to my own life that I could face as a young woman playing regularly in venues across the country where alcohol is served.
Additionally, I have grown up and currently reside in a university town that is affected every year by the tragic consequences resulting from undergraduate students’ excessive enthusiasm for binge drinking. Student arrests, violence, injuries, and sexual assaults occur with some regularity, and I have often wondered why this culture continues to thrive seemingly unquestioned and unchecked.
There is nothing more sad than the unnecessary, destructive and enormous toll that
overuse, misuse and abuse of alcohol and drugs play in people’s lives, and I don’t think my effort to point this out in confidence to a judge while commenting on Brock Turner’s character, as the sober person I knew him to be, was an irresponsible or reckless decision. Unfortunately, due to the overzealous nature of social media and the lack of confidence and privacy in which my letter to the judge was held, I am now thrust into the public eye to defend my position on this matter in the court of public opinion. Now, my choices to defer college to write and play music, to finally introduce 10 years of hard work to a national audience while working consistently and intentionally on my own personal and professional integrity, has led to an uproar of judgement and hatred unleashed on me, my band and my family.
I know that Brock Turner was tried and rightfully convicted of sexual assault. I realize that this crime caused enormous pain for the victim. I don’t condone, support, or sympathize with the offense or the offender. I was asked by a court in California to provide a character statement as a standard and necessary part of the sentencing process.
I believe that Brock’s character was seriously affected by the alcohol he consumed, and I felt that the court needed to consider this issue during their sentencing deliberations.
"Section 271 criminalizes "Sexual assault", section 272 criminalizes "Sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm" and section 273 criminalizes "Aggravated sexual assault". (and then there are legal definitions of consent or lack thereof outlined as well). I think that this was done in order to make charges very specific in each particular case, not to semantically minimize the crime...... But I agree that, while not purposefully, it does kind of do that in a lot of people's minds, since the term rape is so ubiquitous.
Cheers,
HFD
And this. This is completely different from a woman getting kidnapped and raped as she is walking to her car in a parking lot. This is a rapist. These are not rapists. These are idiot boys and girls having too much to drink and not being aware of their surroundings and having clouded judgement. I’m not saying that is every case because I know there are young men that take advantage of young women and vice versa, but I know for a fact that Brock is not one of these people. He is respectful and caring, talented and smart enough to know better.
And this. I would not be writing this letter if I had any doubt in my mind that he is innocent.
More about her and her letter here. http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2016/06/08/24179751/woman-who-defended-brock-turners-character-in-trial-clarifiesbackpedals-after-her-band-is-shunned
Is there a law where the department, upon reviewing it during his 6 month sentence, realize they totally goofed and extend the sentence for a more appropriate length of time? If not, there should be.
we will find a way, we will find our place
This lady deserves every bit of backlash she gets. What an asshole letter to scribe.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
we will find a way, we will find our place