3 Qur’anic Verses That Prove ISIS Is Un-Islamic

gimmesometruth27

this deserves it's own thread so it is not buried 20 pages deep in some other circular argument. an article written by a muslim that says what most of us have been saying, isis is no representative of islam.



3 Qur’anic Verses That Prove ISIS Is Un-Islamic

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an and it is clear ISIS can’t represent any form of Islam.

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2015/02/06/3-quranic-verses-that-prove-isis-is-un-islamic/36096

Since ISIS emerged on the scene last year, Muslims worldwide have been bombarded with the claim that this terrorist group represents an interpretation of Islam “as legitimate as any.”

Therefore, the argument goes, it is proof that Islam is inherently violent and we must do anything and everything to stop Islam from spreading. Some extremist politicians like Geert Wilders want to ban the Qur’an altogether. Some extremist anti-theists like Ayaan Hirsi Ali want to militarily crush all Islam. Some extremist new atheists like Sam Harris argue in defense of horrific torture and pre-emptive nuclear strike on Muslim majority nations. Then there are also Islamophobic politicians like Bobby Jindal of Louisiana and Molly White of Texas who perpetuate “no go zone” myths and promote “anti-Shariah” laws, respectively. Unfortunately demonizing Islam is big business nowadays.

Anti-Islam extremists also claim that while the Qur’an contains some peaceful verses revealed in Mecca, they are abrogated by the allegedly violent verses revealed later in Medina — thus making Islam inherently violent. The two groups that believe this to be true are — ironically — ISIS terrorists and anti-Islam extremists.

Islam is defined first by the whole Qur’an, then by the Sunnah (or actions of Prophet Muhammad), and finally by the ahadith (or sayings of Prophet Muhammad) — in that order. Prophet Muhammad himself commanded Muslims to maintain the Qur’an as the primary and final authority on all things Islamic.

And while the Sunnah and ahadith do not validate any act of ISIS, the above rule is critical. Terrorists and anti-Islam extremists often twist ahadith in an attempt to validate ISIS while shamelessly ignoring the Qur’an and the aforementioned rule of Islamic jurisprudence.

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an, and it becomes clear ISIS cannot possibly represent any form of Islam taught by the Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad. The following three verses of the Qur’an alone demonstrate this fact.

1. Qur’an 22:40: “Permission to fight is given to those against whom war is made, because they have been wronged.”

This verse, revealed in Medina, is the very first time the Qur’an ever addressed fighting. And the very first thing God declares is that fighting is permitted only for those against whom war is made. This requires no deep interpretation or verbal gymnastics. Pre-emptive war is categorically un-Islamic.

Meanwhile, ISIS continues to wage pre-emptive war by conquering sovereign lands and killing journalists, non-combatants, civilians, and doctors. These are all acts specifically forbidden by Islam’s detailed rules of war.

But what does it mean to “have been wronged” and therefore given permission to fight in self-defense? Lest some twisted minds think they get to decide what it means to “have been wronged,” the Qur’an’s very next verse defines exactly that.

2. Qur’an 22:41: “Those who have been driven out from their homes unjustly only because they said, ‘Our Lord is God’ — And if God did not repel some men by means of others, there would surely have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of God is oft commemorated.”

Thus, the Qur’an defines “have been wronged,” as a person who has met two more conditions. The first: one who has been unjustly driven from his own home. The second: being driven out on account of faith.

This verse was also revealed in Medina. In Mecca the Muslims sought permission to fight back and defend themselves from attack and persecution. Prophet Muhammad’s reply was simple and unwavering, “I have not been given permission to fight. I have been admonished to remain patient.”

History records this. Despite facing brutal persecution, economic and social boycott to the point of starvation, and murder — all on account of their faith — the Muslims never raised a finger in Mecca. Instead, they first waited in patience and were unjustly driven out to Medina by the violent Meccans.

ISIS has unjustly driven out thousands of innocent Muslims, Christians, and Yazidis on account of their faith — acts that align them with the violent Meccans.

The latter part of this verse imposes a fourth condition before granting permission to fight in self-defense — that is, Muslims must fight to protect universal freedom of conscience. Otherwise, war is un-Islamic. Every subsequent Qur’anic verse on “combatting disbelievers” is read in light of the above criteria — fighting without having met those violates the Qur’an.

ISIS terrorists have not fulfilled a single one of these criteria. Thus, ISIS’s every act contradicts Islam.

3. Qur’an 2:257: “There shall be no compulsion in religion.”

God revealed this verse near the end of Prophet Muhammad’s ministry, in Medina, after he peacefully retook Mecca and became the de facto ruler of all of Arabia. At a time when Prophet Muhammad could have forced anyone to become Muslim or suffer the sword, he did exactly the opposite.

The Qur’an categorically condemns any form of religious compulsion and ensures universal freedom of conscience remains free for people of all faiths and no faith. In fact, the verse following 2:257 further clarifies that those who still reject God can only be punished by God — no human being has that right.

ISIS, meanwhile, uses weapons to force people to submit to its beliefs. This is in total contradiction to Islam and Prophet Muhammad. But none of this is new. His Holiness the Khalifa of Islam Mirza Masroor Ahmad has loudly declared multiple times, “The actions and statements of ISIS and other extremists who pretend to represent Islam, whilst all the while spreading hatred and violence, run entirely contrary to the peaceful teachings of Islam.”

* * *

Already ISIS terrorists murder more Muslims than they do anyone else. Additionally, as a result of ignorant bigots like Wilders, Hirsi Ali, Harris, Jindal, and White — who promote the barbaric claim that ISIS represents Islam — violence and fear against Muslims in the West increases. This is not a question of faith. I’m not deciding whether ISIS terrorists are “true Muslims” or not. Rather, I’m demonstrating how Islam categorically rejects their acts. The fact is that ISIS’s acts have nothing to do with Islam.

It is time anti-Islam bigots stop ignoring common sense and join Muslims to make the world a more peaceful, compassionate, and educated place.

PJfanwillneverleave1

gimmesometruth27 said:

this deserves it's own thread so it is not buried 20 pages deep in some other circular argument. an article written by a muslim that says what most of us have been saying, isis is no representative of islam.



3 Qur’anic Verses That Prove ISIS Is Un-Islamic

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an and it is clear ISIS can’t represent any form of Islam.

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2015/02/06/3-quranic-verses-that-prove-isis-is-un-islamic/36096

Since ISIS emerged on the scene last year, Muslims worldwide have been bombarded with the claim that this terrorist group represents an interpretation of Islam “as legitimate as any.”

Therefore, the argument goes, it is proof that Islam is inherently violent and we must do anything and everything to stop Islam from spreading. Some extremist politicians like Geert Wilders want to ban the Qur’an altogether. Some extremist anti-theists like Ayaan Hirsi Ali want to militarily crush all Islam. Some extremist new atheists like Sam Harris argue in defense of horrific torture and pre-emptive nuclear strike on Muslim majority nations. Then there are also Islamophobic politicians like Bobby Jindal of Louisiana and Molly White of Texas who perpetuate “no go zone” myths and promote “anti-Shariah” laws, respectively. Unfortunately demonizing Islam is big business nowadays.

Anti-Islam extremists also claim that while the Qur’an contains some peaceful verses revealed in Mecca, they are abrogated by the allegedly violent verses revealed later in Medina — thus making Islam inherently violent. The two groups that believe this to be true are — ironically — ISIS terrorists and anti-Islam extremists.

Islam is defined first by the whole Qur’an, then by the Sunnah (or actions of Prophet Muhammad), and finally by the ahadith (or sayings of Prophet Muhammad) — in that order. Prophet Muhammad himself commanded Muslims to maintain the Qur’an as the primary and final authority on all things Islamic.

And while the Sunnah and ahadith do not validate any act of ISIS, the above rule is critical. Terrorists and anti-Islam extremists often twist ahadith in an attempt to validate ISIS while shamelessly ignoring the Qur’an and the aforementioned rule of Islamic jurisprudence.

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an, and it becomes clear ISIS cannot possibly represent any form of Islam taught by the Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad. The following three verses of the Qur’an alone demonstrate this fact.

1. Qur’an 22:40: “Permission to fight is given to those against whom war is made, because they have been wronged.”

This verse, revealed in Medina, is the very first time the Qur’an ever addressed fighting. And the very first thing God declares is that fighting is permitted only for those against whom war is made. This requires no deep interpretation or verbal gymnastics. Pre-emptive war is categorically un-Islamic.

Meanwhile, ISIS continues to wage pre-emptive war by conquering sovereign lands and killing journalists, non-combatants, civilians, and doctors. These are all acts specifically forbidden by Islam’s detailed rules of war.

But what does it mean to “have been wronged” and therefore given permission to fight in self-defense? Lest some twisted minds think they get to decide what it means to “have been wronged,” the Qur’an’s very next verse defines exactly that.

2. Qur’an 22:41: “Those who have been driven out from their homes unjustly only because they said, ‘Our Lord is God’ — And if God did not repel some men by means of others, there would surely have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of God is oft commemorated.”

Thus, the Qur’an defines “have been wronged,” as a person who has met two more conditions. The first: one who has been unjustly driven from his own home. The second: being driven out on account of faith.

This verse was also revealed in Medina. In Mecca the Muslims sought permission to fight back and defend themselves from attack and persecution. Prophet Muhammad’s reply was simple and unwavering, “I have not been given permission to fight. I have been admonished to remain patient.”

History records this. Despite facing brutal persecution, economic and social boycott to the point of starvation, and murder — all on account of their faith — the Muslims never raised a finger in Mecca. Instead, they first waited in patience and were unjustly driven out to Medina by the violent Meccans.

ISIS has unjustly driven out thousands of innocent Muslims, Christians, and Yazidis on account of their faith — acts that align them with the violent Meccans.

The latter part of this verse imposes a fourth condition before granting permission to fight in self-defense — that is, Muslims must fight to protect universal freedom of conscience. Otherwise, war is un-Islamic. Every subsequent Qur’anic verse on “combatting disbelievers” is read in light of the above criteria — fighting without having met those violates the Qur’an.

ISIS terrorists have not fulfilled a single one of these criteria. Thus, ISIS’s every act contradicts Islam.

3. Qur’an 2:257: “There shall be no compulsion in religion.”

God revealed this verse near the end of Prophet Muhammad’s ministry, in Medina, after he peacefully retook Mecca and became the de facto ruler of all of Arabia. At a time when Prophet Muhammad could have forced anyone to become Muslim or suffer the sword, he did exactly the opposite.

The Qur’an categorically condemns any form of religious compulsion and ensures universal freedom of conscience remains free for people of all faiths and no faith. In fact, the verse following 2:257 further clarifies that those who still reject God can only be punished by God — no human being has that right.

ISIS, meanwhile, uses weapons to force people to submit to its beliefs. This is in total contradiction to Islam and Prophet Muhammad. But none of this is new. His Holiness the Khalifa of Islam Mirza Masroor Ahmad has loudly declared multiple times, “The actions and statements of ISIS and other extremists who pretend to represent Islam, whilst all the while spreading hatred and violence, run entirely contrary to the peaceful teachings of Islam.”

* * *

Already ISIS terrorists murder more Muslims than they do anyone else. Additionally, as a result of ignorant bigots like Wilders, Hirsi Ali, Harris, Jindal, and White — who promote the barbaric claim that ISIS represents Islam — violence and fear against Muslims in the West increases. This is not a question of faith. I’m not deciding whether ISIS terrorists are “true Muslims” or not. Rather, I’m demonstrating how Islam categorically rejects their acts. The fact is that ISIS’s acts have nothing to do with Islam.

It is time anti-Islam bigots stop ignoring common sense and join Muslims to make the world a more peaceful, compassionate, and educated place.

OP
This sounds like a very angry, opined thread. It comes off as promotion of something.
Dunno

mickeyrat

Promtion of some fundamental truth?

PJfanwillneverleave1

No.
We once had a resident (insert faith here) that was very preachy and almost became radical posting controversial pics and such about a religious belief who is now in that place we call banned.

mickeyrat

Said poster challenged the powers that be and posted outside of the guidelines.

The above puts forth an argument from the actual text that challenges a common misdirection narrative.

PJfanwillneverleave1

As said.
It starts.

Enkidu

I think this is an interesting thread, Gimme. I started reading the Quran last night (really). Don't understand how talk of banning past members has anything to do with the topic.

gimmesometruth27

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

this deserves it's own thread so it is not buried 20 pages deep in some other circular argument. an article written by a muslim that says what most of us have been saying, isis is no representative of islam.



3 Qur’anic Verses That Prove ISIS Is Un-Islamic

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an and it is clear ISIS can’t represent any form of Islam.

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2015/02/06/3-quranic-verses-that-prove-isis-is-un-islamic/36096

Since ISIS emerged on the scene last year, Muslims worldwide have been bombarded with the claim that this terrorist group represents an interpretation of Islam “as legitimate as any.”

Therefore, the argument goes, it is proof that Islam is inherently violent and we must do anything and everything to stop Islam from spreading. Some extremist politicians like Geert Wilders want to ban the Qur’an altogether. Some extremist anti-theists like Ayaan Hirsi Ali want to militarily crush all Islam. Some extremist new atheists like Sam Harris argue in defense of horrific torture and pre-emptive nuclear strike on Muslim majority nations. Then there are also Islamophobic politicians like Bobby Jindal of Louisiana and Molly White of Texas who perpetuate “no go zone” myths and promote “anti-Shariah” laws, respectively. Unfortunately demonizing Islam is big business nowadays.

Anti-Islam extremists also claim that while the Qur’an contains some peaceful verses revealed in Mecca, they are abrogated by the allegedly violent verses revealed later in Medina — thus making Islam inherently violent. The two groups that believe this to be true are — ironically — ISIS terrorists and anti-Islam extremists.

Islam is defined first by the whole Qur’an, then by the Sunnah (or actions of Prophet Muhammad), and finally by the ahadith (or sayings of Prophet Muhammad) — in that order. Prophet Muhammad himself commanded Muslims to maintain the Qur’an as the primary and final authority on all things Islamic.

And while the Sunnah and ahadith do not validate any act of ISIS, the above rule is critical. Terrorists and anti-Islam extremists often twist ahadith in an attempt to validate ISIS while shamelessly ignoring the Qur’an and the aforementioned rule of Islamic jurisprudence.

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an, and it becomes clear ISIS cannot possibly represent any form of Islam taught by the Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad. The following three verses of the Qur’an alone demonstrate this fact.

1. Qur’an 22:40: “Permission to fight is given to those against whom war is made, because they have been wronged.”

This verse, revealed in Medina, is the very first time the Qur’an ever addressed fighting. And the very first thing God declares is that fighting is permitted only for those against whom war is made. This requires no deep interpretation or verbal gymnastics. Pre-emptive war is categorically un-Islamic.

Meanwhile, ISIS continues to wage pre-emptive war by conquering sovereign lands and killing journalists, non-combatants, civilians, and doctors. These are all acts specifically forbidden by Islam’s detailed rules of war.

But what does it mean to “have been wronged” and therefore given permission to fight in self-defense? Lest some twisted minds think they get to decide what it means to “have been wronged,” the Qur’an’s very next verse defines exactly that.

2. Qur’an 22:41: “Those who have been driven out from their homes unjustly only because they said, ‘Our Lord is God’ — And if God did not repel some men by means of others, there would surely have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of God is oft commemorated.”

Thus, the Qur’an defines “have been wronged,” as a person who has met two more conditions. The first: one who has been unjustly driven from his own home. The second: being driven out on account of faith.

This verse was also revealed in Medina. In Mecca the Muslims sought permission to fight back and defend themselves from attack and persecution. Prophet Muhammad’s reply was simple and unwavering, “I have not been given permission to fight. I have been admonished to remain patient.”

History records this. Despite facing brutal persecution, economic and social boycott to the point of starvation, and murder — all on account of their faith — the Muslims never raised a finger in Mecca. Instead, they first waited in patience and were unjustly driven out to Medina by the violent Meccans.

ISIS has unjustly driven out thousands of innocent Muslims, Christians, and Yazidis on account of their faith — acts that align them with the violent Meccans.

The latter part of this verse imposes a fourth condition before granting permission to fight in self-defense — that is, Muslims must fight to protect universal freedom of conscience. Otherwise, war is un-Islamic. Every subsequent Qur’anic verse on “combatting disbelievers” is read in light of the above criteria — fighting without having met those violates the Qur’an.

ISIS terrorists have not fulfilled a single one of these criteria. Thus, ISIS’s every act contradicts Islam.

3. Qur’an 2:257: “There shall be no compulsion in religion.”

God revealed this verse near the end of Prophet Muhammad’s ministry, in Medina, after he peacefully retook Mecca and became the de facto ruler of all of Arabia. At a time when Prophet Muhammad could have forced anyone to become Muslim or suffer the sword, he did exactly the opposite.

The Qur’an categorically condemns any form of religious compulsion and ensures universal freedom of conscience remains free for people of all faiths and no faith. In fact, the verse following 2:257 further clarifies that those who still reject God can only be punished by God — no human being has that right.

ISIS, meanwhile, uses weapons to force people to submit to its beliefs. This is in total contradiction to Islam and Prophet Muhammad. But none of this is new. His Holiness the Khalifa of Islam Mirza Masroor Ahmad has loudly declared multiple times, “The actions and statements of ISIS and other extremists who pretend to represent Islam, whilst all the while spreading hatred and violence, run entirely contrary to the peaceful teachings of Islam.”

* * *

Already ISIS terrorists murder more Muslims than they do anyone else. Additionally, as a result of ignorant bigots like Wilders, Hirsi Ali, Harris, Jindal, and White — who promote the barbaric claim that ISIS represents Islam — violence and fear against Muslims in the West increases. This is not a question of faith. I’m not deciding whether ISIS terrorists are “true Muslims” or not. Rather, I’m demonstrating how Islam categorically rejects their acts. The fact is that ISIS’s acts have nothing to do with Islam.

It is time anti-Islam bigots stop ignoring common sense and join Muslims to make the world a more peaceful, compassionate, and educated place.

OP
This sounds like a very angry, opined thread. It comes off as promotion of something.
Dunno

um, it is based on 3 verses from the actual quran...

have you anything to contribute?

gimmesometruth27

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

No.
We once had a resident (insert faith here) that was very preachy and almost became radical posting controversial pics and such about a religious belief who is now in that place we call banned.

http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/67751/bombs-dropping-down#latest

gimmesometruth27

i fine point number 1 very interesting. pre-emptive war is categorically against the teachings of islam.

i can see how isis would try to turn this one on it's head by claiming they are avenging what happened in iraq.

PJfanwillneverleave1

gimmesometruth27 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

this deserves it's own thread so it is not buried 20 pages deep in some other circular argument. an article written by a muslim that says what most of us have been saying, isis is no representative of islam.



3 Qur’anic Verses That Prove ISIS Is Un-Islamic

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an and it is clear ISIS can’t represent any form of Islam.

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2015/02/06/3-quranic-verses-that-prove-isis-is-un-islamic/36096

Since ISIS emerged on the scene last year, Muslims worldwide have been bombarded with the claim that this terrorist group represents an interpretation of Islam “as legitimate as any.”

Therefore, the argument goes, it is proof that Islam is inherently violent and we must do anything and everything to stop Islam from spreading. Some extremist politicians like Geert Wilders want to ban the Qur’an altogether. Some extremist anti-theists like Ayaan Hirsi Ali want to militarily crush all Islam. Some extremist new atheists like Sam Harris argue in defense of horrific torture and pre-emptive nuclear strike on Muslim majority nations. Then there are also Islamophobic politicians like Bobby Jindal of Louisiana and Molly White of Texas who perpetuate “no go zone” myths and promote “anti-Shariah” laws, respectively. Unfortunately demonizing Islam is big business nowadays.

Anti-Islam extremists also claim that while the Qur’an contains some peaceful verses revealed in Mecca, they are abrogated by the allegedly violent verses revealed later in Medina — thus making Islam inherently violent. The two groups that believe this to be true are — ironically — ISIS terrorists and anti-Islam extremists.

Islam is defined first by the whole Qur’an, then by the Sunnah (or actions of Prophet Muhammad), and finally by the ahadith (or sayings of Prophet Muhammad) — in that order. Prophet Muhammad himself commanded Muslims to maintain the Qur’an as the primary and final authority on all things Islamic.

And while the Sunnah and ahadith do not validate any act of ISIS, the above rule is critical. Terrorists and anti-Islam extremists often twist ahadith in an attempt to validate ISIS while shamelessly ignoring the Qur’an and the aforementioned rule of Islamic jurisprudence.

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an, and it becomes clear ISIS cannot possibly represent any form of Islam taught by the Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad. The following three verses of the Qur’an alone demonstrate this fact.

1. Qur’an 22:40: “Permission to fight is given to those against whom war is made, because they have been wronged.”

This verse, revealed in Medina, is the very first time the Qur’an ever addressed fighting. And the very first thing God declares is that fighting is permitted only for those against whom war is made. This requires no deep interpretation or verbal gymnastics. Pre-emptive war is categorically un-Islamic.

Meanwhile, ISIS continues to wage pre-emptive war by conquering sovereign lands and killing journalists, non-combatants, civilians, and doctors. These are all acts specifically forbidden by Islam’s detailed rules of war.

But what does it mean to “have been wronged” and therefore given permission to fight in self-defense? Lest some twisted minds think they get to decide what it means to “have been wronged,” the Qur’an’s very next verse defines exactly that.

2. Qur’an 22:41: “Those who have been driven out from their homes unjustly only because they said, ‘Our Lord is God’ — And if God did not repel some men by means of others, there would surely have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of God is oft commemorated.”

Thus, the Qur’an defines “have been wronged,” as a person who has met two more conditions. The first: one who has been unjustly driven from his own home. The second: being driven out on account of faith.

This verse was also revealed in Medina. In Mecca the Muslims sought permission to fight back and defend themselves from attack and persecution. Prophet Muhammad’s reply was simple and unwavering, “I have not been given permission to fight. I have been admonished to remain patient.”

History records this. Despite facing brutal persecution, economic and social boycott to the point of starvation, and murder — all on account of their faith — the Muslims never raised a finger in Mecca. Instead, they first waited in patience and were unjustly driven out to Medina by the violent Meccans.

ISIS has unjustly driven out thousands of innocent Muslims, Christians, and Yazidis on account of their faith — acts that align them with the violent Meccans.

The latter part of this verse imposes a fourth condition before granting permission to fight in self-defense — that is, Muslims must fight to protect universal freedom of conscience. Otherwise, war is un-Islamic. Every subsequent Qur’anic verse on “combatting disbelievers” is read in light of the above criteria — fighting without having met those violates the Qur’an.

ISIS terrorists have not fulfilled a single one of these criteria. Thus, ISIS’s every act contradicts Islam.

3. Qur’an 2:257: “There shall be no compulsion in religion.”

God revealed this verse near the end of Prophet Muhammad’s ministry, in Medina, after he peacefully retook Mecca and became the de facto ruler of all of Arabia. At a time when Prophet Muhammad could have forced anyone to become Muslim or suffer the sword, he did exactly the opposite.

The Qur’an categorically condemns any form of religious compulsion and ensures universal freedom of conscience remains free for people of all faiths and no faith. In fact, the verse following 2:257 further clarifies that those who still reject God can only be punished by God — no human being has that right.

ISIS, meanwhile, uses weapons to force people to submit to its beliefs. This is in total contradiction to Islam and Prophet Muhammad. But none of this is new. His Holiness the Khalifa of Islam Mirza Masroor Ahmad has loudly declared multiple times, “The actions and statements of ISIS and other extremists who pretend to represent Islam, whilst all the while spreading hatred and violence, run entirely contrary to the peaceful teachings of Islam.”

* * *

Already ISIS terrorists murder more Muslims than they do anyone else. Additionally, as a result of ignorant bigots like Wilders, Hirsi Ali, Harris, Jindal, and White — who promote the barbaric claim that ISIS represents Islam — violence and fear against Muslims in the West increases. This is not a question of faith. I’m not deciding whether ISIS terrorists are “true Muslims” or not. Rather, I’m demonstrating how Islam categorically rejects their acts. The fact is that ISIS’s acts have nothing to do with Islam.

It is time anti-Islam bigots stop ignoring common sense and join Muslims to make the world a more peaceful, compassionate, and educated place.

OP
This sounds like a very angry, opined thread. It comes off as promotion of something.
Dunno

um, it is based on 3 verses from the actual quran...

have you anything to contribute?

Yes.
Lump this in with a religion vs non religion thread.

gimmesometruth27

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

this deserves it's own thread so it is not buried 20 pages deep in some other circular argument. an article written by a muslim that says what most of us have been saying, isis is no representative of islam.



3 Qur’anic Verses That Prove ISIS Is Un-Islamic

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an and it is clear ISIS can’t represent any form of Islam.

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2015/02/06/3-quranic-verses-that-prove-isis-is-un-islamic/36096

Since ISIS emerged on the scene last year, Muslims worldwide have been bombarded with the claim that this terrorist group represents an interpretation of Islam “as legitimate as any.”

Therefore, the argument goes, it is proof that Islam is inherently violent and we must do anything and everything to stop Islam from spreading. Some extremist politicians like Geert Wilders want to ban the Qur’an altogether. Some extremist anti-theists like Ayaan Hirsi Ali want to militarily crush all Islam. Some extremist new atheists like Sam Harris argue in defense of horrific torture and pre-emptive nuclear strike on Muslim majority nations. Then there are also Islamophobic politicians like Bobby Jindal of Louisiana and Molly White of Texas who perpetuate “no go zone” myths and promote “anti-Shariah” laws, respectively. Unfortunately demonizing Islam is big business nowadays.

Anti-Islam extremists also claim that while the Qur’an contains some peaceful verses revealed in Mecca, they are abrogated by the allegedly violent verses revealed later in Medina — thus making Islam inherently violent. The two groups that believe this to be true are — ironically — ISIS terrorists and anti-Islam extremists.

Islam is defined first by the whole Qur’an, then by the Sunnah (or actions of Prophet Muhammad), and finally by the ahadith (or sayings of Prophet Muhammad) — in that order. Prophet Muhammad himself commanded Muslims to maintain the Qur’an as the primary and final authority on all things Islamic.

And while the Sunnah and ahadith do not validate any act of ISIS, the above rule is critical. Terrorists and anti-Islam extremists often twist ahadith in an attempt to validate ISIS while shamelessly ignoring the Qur’an and the aforementioned rule of Islamic jurisprudence.

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an, and it becomes clear ISIS cannot possibly represent any form of Islam taught by the Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad. The following three verses of the Qur’an alone demonstrate this fact.

1. Qur’an 22:40: “Permission to fight is given to those against whom war is made, because they have been wronged.”

This verse, revealed in Medina, is the very first time the Qur’an ever addressed fighting. And the very first thing God declares is that fighting is permitted only for those against whom war is made. This requires no deep interpretation or verbal gymnastics. Pre-emptive war is categorically un-Islamic.

Meanwhile, ISIS continues to wage pre-emptive war by conquering sovereign lands and killing journalists, non-combatants, civilians, and doctors. These are all acts specifically forbidden by Islam’s detailed rules of war.

But what does it mean to “have been wronged” and therefore given permission to fight in self-defense? Lest some twisted minds think they get to decide what it means to “have been wronged,” the Qur’an’s very next verse defines exactly that.

2. Qur’an 22:41: “Those who have been driven out from their homes unjustly only because they said, ‘Our Lord is God’ — And if God did not repel some men by means of others, there would surely have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of God is oft commemorated.”

Thus, the Qur’an defines “have been wronged,” as a person who has met two more conditions. The first: one who has been unjustly driven from his own home. The second: being driven out on account of faith.

This verse was also revealed in Medina. In Mecca the Muslims sought permission to fight back and defend themselves from attack and persecution. Prophet Muhammad’s reply was simple and unwavering, “I have not been given permission to fight. I have been admonished to remain patient.”

History records this. Despite facing brutal persecution, economic and social boycott to the point of starvation, and murder — all on account of their faith — the Muslims never raised a finger in Mecca. Instead, they first waited in patience and were unjustly driven out to Medina by the violent Meccans.

ISIS has unjustly driven out thousands of innocent Muslims, Christians, and Yazidis on account of their faith — acts that align them with the violent Meccans.

The latter part of this verse imposes a fourth condition before granting permission to fight in self-defense — that is, Muslims must fight to protect universal freedom of conscience. Otherwise, war is un-Islamic. Every subsequent Qur’anic verse on “combatting disbelievers” is read in light of the above criteria — fighting without having met those violates the Qur’an.

ISIS terrorists have not fulfilled a single one of these criteria. Thus, ISIS’s every act contradicts Islam.

3. Qur’an 2:257: “There shall be no compulsion in religion.”

God revealed this verse near the end of Prophet Muhammad’s ministry, in Medina, after he peacefully retook Mecca and became the de facto ruler of all of Arabia. At a time when Prophet Muhammad could have forced anyone to become Muslim or suffer the sword, he did exactly the opposite.

The Qur’an categorically condemns any form of religious compulsion and ensures universal freedom of conscience remains free for people of all faiths and no faith. In fact, the verse following 2:257 further clarifies that those who still reject God can only be punished by God — no human being has that right.

ISIS, meanwhile, uses weapons to force people to submit to its beliefs. This is in total contradiction to Islam and Prophet Muhammad. But none of this is new. His Holiness the Khalifa of Islam Mirza Masroor Ahmad has loudly declared multiple times, “The actions and statements of ISIS and other extremists who pretend to represent Islam, whilst all the while spreading hatred and violence, run entirely contrary to the peaceful teachings of Islam.”

* * *

Already ISIS terrorists murder more Muslims than they do anyone else. Additionally, as a result of ignorant bigots like Wilders, Hirsi Ali, Harris, Jindal, and White — who promote the barbaric claim that ISIS represents Islam — violence and fear against Muslims in the West increases. This is not a question of faith. I’m not deciding whether ISIS terrorists are “true Muslims” or not. Rather, I’m demonstrating how Islam categorically rejects their acts. The fact is that ISIS’s acts have nothing to do with Islam.

It is time anti-Islam bigots stop ignoring common sense and join Muslims to make the world a more peaceful, compassionate, and educated place.

OP
This sounds like a very angry, opined thread. It comes off as promotion of something.
Dunno

um, it is based on 3 verses from the actual quran...

have you anything to contribute?

Yes.
Lump this in with a religion vs non religion thread.

this article goes against everything our media is telling us and it outright contradicts what people on here are saying. i don't want it to get buried in a derailed circle jerk thread.

please stop attempting to ruin my thread.

gimmesometruth27

i agree with point 3. there should be no compulsion in religion. all religions.

northerndragon

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

this deserves it's own thread so it is not buried 20 pages deep in some other circular argument. an article written by a muslim that says what most of us have been saying, isis is no representative of islam.



3 Qur’anic Verses That Prove ISIS Is Un-Islamic

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an and it is clear ISIS can’t represent any form of Islam.

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2015/02/06/3-quranic-verses-that-prove-isis-is-un-islamic/36096

Since ISIS emerged on the scene last year, Muslims worldwide have been bombarded with the claim that this terrorist group represents an interpretation of Islam “as legitimate as any.”

Therefore, the argument goes, it is proof that Islam is inherently violent and we must do anything and everything to stop Islam from spreading. Some extremist politicians like Geert Wilders want to ban the Qur’an altogether. Some extremist anti-theists like Ayaan Hirsi Ali want to militarily crush all Islam. Some extremist new atheists like Sam Harris argue in defense of horrific torture and pre-emptive nuclear strike on Muslim majority nations. Then there are also Islamophobic politicians like Bobby Jindal of Louisiana and Molly White of Texas who perpetuate “no go zone” myths and promote “anti-Shariah” laws, respectively. Unfortunately demonizing Islam is big business nowadays.

Anti-Islam extremists also claim that while the Qur’an contains some peaceful verses revealed in Mecca, they are abrogated by the allegedly violent verses revealed later in Medina — thus making Islam inherently violent. The two groups that believe this to be true are — ironically — ISIS terrorists and anti-Islam extremists.

Islam is defined first by the whole Qur’an, then by the Sunnah (or actions of Prophet Muhammad), and finally by the ahadith (or sayings of Prophet Muhammad) — in that order. Prophet Muhammad himself commanded Muslims to maintain the Qur’an as the primary and final authority on all things Islamic.

And while the Sunnah and ahadith do not validate any act of ISIS, the above rule is critical. Terrorists and anti-Islam extremists often twist ahadith in an attempt to validate ISIS while shamelessly ignoring the Qur’an and the aforementioned rule of Islamic jurisprudence.

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an, and it becomes clear ISIS cannot possibly represent any form of Islam taught by the Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad. The following three verses of the Qur’an alone demonstrate this fact.

1. Qur’an 22:40: “Permission to fight is given to those against whom war is made, because they have been wronged.”

This verse, revealed in Medina, is the very first time the Qur’an ever addressed fighting. And the very first thing God declares is that fighting is permitted only for those against whom war is made. This requires no deep interpretation or verbal gymnastics. Pre-emptive war is categorically un-Islamic.

Meanwhile, ISIS continues to wage pre-emptive war by conquering sovereign lands and killing journalists, non-combatants, civilians, and doctors. These are all acts specifically forbidden by Islam’s detailed rules of war.

But what does it mean to “have been wronged” and therefore given permission to fight in self-defense? Lest some twisted minds think they get to decide what it means to “have been wronged,” the Qur’an’s very next verse defines exactly that.

2. Qur’an 22:41: “Those who have been driven out from their homes unjustly only because they said, ‘Our Lord is God’ — And if God did not repel some men by means of others, there would surely have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of God is oft commemorated.”

Thus, the Qur’an defines “have been wronged,” as a person who has met two more conditions. The first: one who has been unjustly driven from his own home. The second: being driven out on account of faith.

This verse was also revealed in Medina. In Mecca the Muslims sought permission to fight back and defend themselves from attack and persecution. Prophet Muhammad’s reply was simple and unwavering, “I have not been given permission to fight. I have been admonished to remain patient.”

History records this. Despite facing brutal persecution, economic and social boycott to the point of starvation, and murder — all on account of their faith — the Muslims never raised a finger in Mecca. Instead, they first waited in patience and were unjustly driven out to Medina by the violent Meccans.

ISIS has unjustly driven out thousands of innocent Muslims, Christians, and Yazidis on account of their faith — acts that align them with the violent Meccans.

The latter part of this verse imposes a fourth condition before granting permission to fight in self-defense — that is, Muslims must fight to protect universal freedom of conscience. Otherwise, war is un-Islamic. Every subsequent Qur’anic verse on “combatting disbelievers” is read in light of the above criteria — fighting without having met those violates the Qur’an.

ISIS terrorists have not fulfilled a single one of these criteria. Thus, ISIS’s every act contradicts Islam.

3. Qur’an 2:257: “There shall be no compulsion in religion.”

God revealed this verse near the end of Prophet Muhammad’s ministry, in Medina, after he peacefully retook Mecca and became the de facto ruler of all of Arabia. At a time when Prophet Muhammad could have forced anyone to become Muslim or suffer the sword, he did exactly the opposite.

The Qur’an categorically condemns any form of religious compulsion and ensures universal freedom of conscience remains free for people of all faiths and no faith. In fact, the verse following 2:257 further clarifies that those who still reject God can only be punished by God — no human being has that right.

ISIS, meanwhile, uses weapons to force people to submit to its beliefs. This is in total contradiction to Islam and Prophet Muhammad. But none of this is new. His Holiness the Khalifa of Islam Mirza Masroor Ahmad has loudly declared multiple times, “The actions and statements of ISIS and other extremists who pretend to represent Islam, whilst all the while spreading hatred and violence, run entirely contrary to the peaceful teachings of Islam.”

* * *

Already ISIS terrorists murder more Muslims than they do anyone else. Additionally, as a result of ignorant bigots like Wilders, Hirsi Ali, Harris, Jindal, and White — who promote the barbaric claim that ISIS represents Islam — violence and fear against Muslims in the West increases. This is not a question of faith. I’m not deciding whether ISIS terrorists are “true Muslims” or not. Rather, I’m demonstrating how Islam categorically rejects their acts. The fact is that ISIS’s acts have nothing to do with Islam.

It is time anti-Islam bigots stop ignoring common sense and join Muslims to make the world a more peaceful, compassionate, and educated place.

OP
This sounds like a very angry, opined thread. It comes off as promotion of something.
Dunno

um, it is based on 3 verses from the actual quran...

have you anything to contribute?

Yes.
Lump this in with a religion vs non religion thread.

If you could read and understand simple English you would see that this post is not about religion Vs non-religion. It is about educating the ignorant about the actual written words within the Qur'an and how it contradicts a myth upheld by many outside of the Muslim faith.
Pretty sure the wrong person got banned.

gimmesometruth27

mickeyrat said:

Promtion of some fundamental truth?

thank you.

PJfanwillneverleave1

northerndragon said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

this deserves it's own thread so it is not buried 20 pages deep in some other circular argument. an article written by a muslim that says what most of us have been saying, isis is no representative of islam.



3 Qur’anic Verses That Prove ISIS Is Un-Islamic

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an and it is clear ISIS can’t represent any form of Islam.

http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2015/02/06/3-quranic-verses-that-prove-isis-is-un-islamic/36096

Since ISIS emerged on the scene last year, Muslims worldwide have been bombarded with the claim that this terrorist group represents an interpretation of Islam “as legitimate as any.”

Therefore, the argument goes, it is proof that Islam is inherently violent and we must do anything and everything to stop Islam from spreading. Some extremist politicians like Geert Wilders want to ban the Qur’an altogether. Some extremist anti-theists like Ayaan Hirsi Ali want to militarily crush all Islam. Some extremist new atheists like Sam Harris argue in defense of horrific torture and pre-emptive nuclear strike on Muslim majority nations. Then there are also Islamophobic politicians like Bobby Jindal of Louisiana and Molly White of Texas who perpetuate “no go zone” myths and promote “anti-Shariah” laws, respectively. Unfortunately demonizing Islam is big business nowadays.

Anti-Islam extremists also claim that while the Qur’an contains some peaceful verses revealed in Mecca, they are abrogated by the allegedly violent verses revealed later in Medina — thus making Islam inherently violent. The two groups that believe this to be true are — ironically — ISIS terrorists and anti-Islam extremists.

Islam is defined first by the whole Qur’an, then by the Sunnah (or actions of Prophet Muhammad), and finally by the ahadith (or sayings of Prophet Muhammad) — in that order. Prophet Muhammad himself commanded Muslims to maintain the Qur’an as the primary and final authority on all things Islamic.

And while the Sunnah and ahadith do not validate any act of ISIS, the above rule is critical. Terrorists and anti-Islam extremists often twist ahadith in an attempt to validate ISIS while shamelessly ignoring the Qur’an and the aforementioned rule of Islamic jurisprudence.

Compare the actions of ISIS to the Qur’an, and it becomes clear ISIS cannot possibly represent any form of Islam taught by the Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad. The following three verses of the Qur’an alone demonstrate this fact.

1. Qur’an 22:40: “Permission to fight is given to those against whom war is made, because they have been wronged.”

This verse, revealed in Medina, is the very first time the Qur’an ever addressed fighting. And the very first thing God declares is that fighting is permitted only for those against whom war is made. This requires no deep interpretation or verbal gymnastics. Pre-emptive war is categorically un-Islamic.

Meanwhile, ISIS continues to wage pre-emptive war by conquering sovereign lands and killing journalists, non-combatants, civilians, and doctors. These are all acts specifically forbidden by Islam’s detailed rules of war.

But what does it mean to “have been wronged” and therefore given permission to fight in self-defense? Lest some twisted minds think they get to decide what it means to “have been wronged,” the Qur’an’s very next verse defines exactly that.

2. Qur’an 22:41: “Those who have been driven out from their homes unjustly only because they said, ‘Our Lord is God’ — And if God did not repel some men by means of others, there would surely have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of God is oft commemorated.”

Thus, the Qur’an defines “have been wronged,” as a person who has met two more conditions. The first: one who has been unjustly driven from his own home. The second: being driven out on account of faith.

This verse was also revealed in Medina. In Mecca the Muslims sought permission to fight back and defend themselves from attack and persecution. Prophet Muhammad’s reply was simple and unwavering, “I have not been given permission to fight. I have been admonished to remain patient.”

History records this. Despite facing brutal persecution, economic and social boycott to the point of starvation, and murder — all on account of their faith — the Muslims never raised a finger in Mecca. Instead, they first waited in patience and were unjustly driven out to Medina by the violent Meccans.

ISIS has unjustly driven out thousands of innocent Muslims, Christians, and Yazidis on account of their faith — acts that align them with the violent Meccans.

The latter part of this verse imposes a fourth condition before granting permission to fight in self-defense — that is, Muslims must fight to protect universal freedom of conscience. Otherwise, war is un-Islamic. Every subsequent Qur’anic verse on “combatting disbelievers” is read in light of the above criteria — fighting without having met those violates the Qur’an.

ISIS terrorists have not fulfilled a single one of these criteria. Thus, ISIS’s every act contradicts Islam.

3. Qur’an 2:257: “There shall be no compulsion in religion.”

God revealed this verse near the end of Prophet Muhammad’s ministry, in Medina, after he peacefully retook Mecca and became the de facto ruler of all of Arabia. At a time when Prophet Muhammad could have forced anyone to become Muslim or suffer the sword, he did exactly the opposite.

The Qur’an categorically condemns any form of religious compulsion and ensures universal freedom of conscience remains free for people of all faiths and no faith. In fact, the verse following 2:257 further clarifies that those who still reject God can only be punished by God — no human being has that right.

ISIS, meanwhile, uses weapons to force people to submit to its beliefs. This is in total contradiction to Islam and Prophet Muhammad. But none of this is new. His Holiness the Khalifa of Islam Mirza Masroor Ahmad has loudly declared multiple times, “The actions and statements of ISIS and other extremists who pretend to represent Islam, whilst all the while spreading hatred and violence, run entirely contrary to the peaceful teachings of Islam.”

* * *

Already ISIS terrorists murder more Muslims than they do anyone else. Additionally, as a result of ignorant bigots like Wilders, Hirsi Ali, Harris, Jindal, and White — who promote the barbaric claim that ISIS represents Islam — violence and fear against Muslims in the West increases. This is not a question of faith. I’m not deciding whether ISIS terrorists are “true Muslims” or not. Rather, I’m demonstrating how Islam categorically rejects their acts. The fact is that ISIS’s acts have nothing to do with Islam.

It is time anti-Islam bigots stop ignoring common sense and join Muslims to make the world a more peaceful, compassionate, and educated place.

OP
This sounds like a very angry, opined thread. It comes off as promotion of something.
Dunno

um, it is based on 3 verses from the actual quran...

have you anything to contribute?

Yes.
Lump this in with a religion vs non religion thread.

If you could read and understand simple English you would see that this post is not about religion Vs non-religion. It is about educating the ignorant about the actual written words within the Qur'an and how it contradicts a myth upheld by many outside of the Muslim faith.
Pretty sure the wrong person got banned.

At best the OP is basing things from a fictitious book.
Not a good starting point.

gimmesometruth27

northerndragon said:

If you could read and understand simple English you would see that this post is not about religion Vs non-religion. It is about educating the ignorant about the actual written words within the Qur'an and how it contradicts an over myth held by many outside of the Muslim faith.
Pretty sure the wrong person got banned.

i think when you read the article it is a pretty cut and dried argument that isis is no reflection of islam. isis has broken all 3 of the passages. somewhere they have twisted those words. maybe they have an abriged version of the quran somewhere or have read other texts where the interpretation is different.

i did not know about these 3 passages. i figured if i had never seen them then there are bound to be people on here who have not seen them either.

i think when you read the article it is a pretty cut and dried argument that isis is no reflection of islam. isis has broken all 3 of the passages. somewhere they have twisted those words. maybe they have an abriged version of the quran somewhere or have read other texts where the interpretation is different.

i did not know about these 3 passages. i figured if i had never seen them then there are bound to be people on here who have not seen them either.

gimmesometruth27

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

At best the OP is basing things from a fictitious book.
Not a good starting point.

catefrances

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

At best the OP is basing things from a fictitious book.
Not a good starting point.

fictitious? define truth? whose truth is the right truth? is truth simply subjective?

PJfanwillneverleave1

catefrances said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

At best the OP is basing things from a fictitious book.
Not a good starting point.

fictitious? define truth? whose truth is the right truth? is truth simply subjective?

You're right. Forget feminism. I convert to islam and await my lovely virgins in the sky.

gimmesometruth27

catefrances said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

At best the OP is basing things from a fictitious book.
Not a good starting point.

fictitious? define truth? whose truth is the right truth? is truth simply subjective?

apparently it is to some people.

gimmesometruth27

it is funny how when confronted with verses from the actual book it should change the narrative that isis is representative of islam as a whole, but it doesn't.

i suppose this goes back to the argument that people should be able to make up their own facts, maybe?

JimmyV

gimmesometruth27 said:

it is funny how when confronted with verses from the actual book it should change the narrative that isis is representative of islam as a whole, but it doesn't.

i suppose this goes back to the argument that people should be able to make up their own facts, maybe?

Having never read the book this could be wrong but I've always assumed it was like the bible in that it often contradicts itself. That you can find one passage that says X and another that says Y. For every "eye for an eye" there is a "turn the other cheek".

mickeyrat

JimmyV said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

it is funny how when confronted with verses from the actual book it should change the narrative that isis is representative of islam as a whole, but it doesn't.

i suppose this goes back to the argument that people should be able to make up their own facts, maybe?

Having never read the book this could be wrong but I've always assumed it was like the bible in that it often contradicts itself. That you can find one passage that says X and another that says Y. For every "eye for an eye" there is a "turn the other cheek".

Thats two seperate books though. Old and New. Kinda the point of the messiah to start with. Fulfillment of the original covenant to usher in the new covenant.

dmaradona10

This is such a complex topic and the OP does a good job presenting his argument. My opinion is that there are over one billion Muslims and the vast majority are peaceful.
My concern is this: millions of Muslims are pouring into the West.
There are some cultural issues here regarding how Muslim communities get along with other religious and cultural groups. In extreme cases there are honor killings and female genital mutilation.
I have a difficult time seeing woman in burkas in my community, to me they looked highly restricted. I also think overall treatment of woman is one of second class citizenship.

JimmyV

mickeyrat said:

JimmyV said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

it is funny how when confronted with verses from the actual book it should change the narrative that isis is representative of islam as a whole, but it doesn't.

i suppose this goes back to the argument that people should be able to make up their own facts, maybe?

Having never read the book this could be wrong but I've always assumed it was like the bible in that it often contradicts itself. That you can find one passage that says X and another that says Y. For every "eye for an eye" there is a "turn the other cheek".

Thats two seperate books though. Old and New. Kinda the point of the messiah to start with. Fulfillment of the original covenant to usher in the new covenant.

Fair enough.

hedonist

dmaradona10 said:

This is such a complex topic and the OP does a good job presenting his argument. My opinion is that there are over one billion Muslims and the vast majority are peaceful.
My concern is this: millions of Muslims are pouring into the West.
There are some cultural issues here regarding how Muslim communities get along with other religious and cultural groups. In extreme cases there are honor killings and female genital mutilation.
I have a difficult time seeing woman in burkas in my community, to me they looked highly restricted. I also think overall treatment of woman is one of second class citizenship.

I would imagine the vast majority coming here are peaceful as well. Cultures have come together, melded, for many years. Pretty much what America is about as I see it.

As to covering up in any form, definitely not what I'd choose for myself but if worn and borne of free will? OK by me.

Extremism in any form / most forms, not a fan at all.

brianlux

Excellent points made in the article, gimme. Thanks for posting it!

Who Princess

gimmesometruth27 said:

it is funny how when confronted with verses from the actual book it should change the narrative that isis is representative of islam as a whole, but it doesn't.

i suppose this goes back to the argument that people should be able to make up their own facts, maybe?

From what I have read about ISIS, its members subscribe to an extreme, apocalyptic version of Islam. Appealing to them as Muslims has not been effective because they believe, unfortunately, that theirs is the only true path.

jeffbr

I guess the truth part of the thread is that ISIS clearly doesn't follow the precepts of the mythology they claim to embrace. ISIS isn't and shouldn't be considered representative of Islam just as the Westboro Baptists shouldn't be considered representative of Christianity even though they also cling to writings in their book of mythology (or at least the ones that suit them). Most people in this country wouldn't consider Westboro representative, but I suspect many/most people in this country may consider ISIS representative for some reason.

And to answer a different question in this thread, truth isn't subjective. So the question "whose truth is the right truth?" starts from a faulty premise.

lukin2006

I never considered them religious. I suspect if their was a god he would absolutely be appalled by their actions and the actions of many so called religious folks.