They did poster wristbands at MSG, and it went great. That being said, my problem is with the flippers, not the fans. I just don't see how you can justify flippers on eBay?? But each to their own. I will pay $30! How you buy, and how much you pay is your business, but supporting flippers only ruins it for others that can't afford $$$$$$$$ for a $30 poster.
I will scream my lungs out till it fills this room.
They did poster wristbands at MSG, and it went great. That being said, my problem is with the flippers, not the fans. I just don't see how you can justify flippers on eBay?? But each to their own. I will pay $30! How you buy, and how much you pay is your business, but supporting flippers only ruins it for others that can't afford $$$$$$$$ for a $30 poster.
I don't justify flippers (I haven't been talking about flippers), but I do think that the flippers are not the ones to blame for prices. The BUYERS are solely responsible for the flipper prices. 100% (myself included, as someone who has spent a ton of money on all the PJ studio albums). No, I really can't blame anyone for trying to make a buck when fans are willing to throw money at them almost indiscriminately.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.
Pittsburgh, PA September 28, 2005 || Washington, DC June 22, 2008 || Barstow, VA May 13, 2010 || Seattle, WA August 10, 2018 || Dana Point, CA September 29, 2018 (EV) || Dana Point, CA September 28, 2019 (EV) || Dana Point, CA September 25, 2021 (EV) || Dana Point, CA October 1, 2021 || Dana Point, CA October 2, 2021
I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.
LOL, I'm a bit confused by PJ_Soul's mindset, but that's why we live in America, where we can peacefully discuss useless crap. LOL
I will scream my lungs out till it fills this room.
I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.
LOL, I'm a bit confused by PJ_Soul's mindset, but that's why we live in America, where we can peacefully discuss useless crap. LOL
It's just econ 101. Demand sets the pricing. If no one buys over face value, the secondary market will die out. That's how you blame the buyers. If a poster costs $35 and sells for $100, it's because someone was willing to pay $100 for it. Tons of people are flooding the pages with "if you pick me up a poster I'll buy yours and pay for shipping!" That's not encouraging flippers, nor is it buying off flippers, but it affects the market price, effectively setting the minimum market value at $70. If no one paid more than $35 for the posters, they wouldn't be selling for more than $35.
I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.
LOL, I'm a bit confused by PJ_Soul's mindset, but that's why we live in America, where we can peacefully discuss useless crap. LOL
It's just econ 101. Demand sets the pricing. If no one buys over face value, the secondary market will die out. That's how you blame the buyers. If a poster costs $35 and sells for $100, it's because someone was willing to pay $100 for it. Tons of people are flooding the pages with "if you pick me up a poster I'll buy yours and pay for shipping!" That's not encouraging flippers, nor is it buying off flippers, but it affects the market price, effectively setting the minimum market value at $70. If no one paid more than $35 for the posters, they wouldn't be selling for more than $35.
Exactly.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.
LOL, I'm a bit confused by PJ_Soul's mindset, but that's why we live in America, where we can peacefully discuss useless crap. LOL
It's capitalism! Where there is a market for a good or service, providers will surface. I always wondered who was paying for the overpriced tickets/posters/whatever but after living in NY where people pay $1k for a LV tote bag, $100 for a poster seems incredibly reasonable.
DC '03 - Reading '04 - Philly '05 - Camden 1 '06 - DC '06 - E. Rutherford '06 - The Vic '07 - Lollapalooza '07 - DC '08 - EV DC 1 & 2 '08 (Met Ed!!) - EV Baltimore 1 & 2 '09 - EV NYC 1 '11 (Met Ed!) - Hartford '13 - GCF '15 - MSG 2 '16 - TOTD MSG '16 - Boston 1 & 2 '18 - SHN '21 - EV NYC 1 & 2 '22 - MSG '22
I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.
Kinda like how a Lost Dogs seller, who is neither a friend or family member, wants an extra 3% to conduct a secure PayPal transaction.
It's capitalism! Where there is a market for a good or service, providers will surface. I always wondered who was paying for the overpriced tickets/posters/whatever but after living in NY where people pay $1k for a LV tote bag, $100 for a poster seems incredibly reasonable.
That's generally it. The value/price of something in a capitalist society is based on supply and demand. In this case the supply is low for these items and the demand is high. More people want them than are being made. This people have to try and buy other peoples posters to get one. The flippers take advantage of this by acquiring limited items and selling them.
It could easily be solved by making more items. I posted this in a thread and someone countered me by saying the 10c gets stuck with alot of useless merch (hence mystery sales). This is true, but there are certain items you know will sell out. Posters for any show when Pearl Jam plays the NorthEast or Seattle (Northwest isn't so bad outside of the seattle shows). Stickers, Tshirts etc.. too.
It really is to bad the 10c doesn't simply allow you to preorder posters online. They did this for the 09 tours (I remember being able to do it for the calgary show I went to). it was awesome. I didn't have to try and protect a poster at a GA show, I was guaranteed one, and It shows up at my house in mint condition. From a planning standpoint 10c would know precisely how many to print for users of the website. They could do extra runoff for the venue, but at least their would be a surefire way to get one. I wonder why the 10c abandoned it. It worked out awesome in '09.
I understand capitalism, I have a doctorate in philosophy, so that being said, there is a difference between "capitalism" and "greed". Why don't we go ahead and raise the price of milk by 500%, because people want milk, so why not......I'm sure the cow farmers will be happy...this is silly, people defending flippers
I will scream my lungs out till it fills this room.
I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.
Kinda like how a Lost Dogs seller, who is neither a friend or family member, wants an extra 3% to conduct a secure PayPal transaction.
No, that is for peace of mind.
Post edited by PSUS2H on
Pittsburgh, PA September 28, 2005 || Washington, DC June 22, 2008 || Barstow, VA May 13, 2010 || Seattle, WA August 10, 2018 || Dana Point, CA September 29, 2018 (EV) || Dana Point, CA September 28, 2019 (EV) || Dana Point, CA September 25, 2021 (EV) || Dana Point, CA October 1, 2021 || Dana Point, CA October 2, 2021
I generally dont care about these posts, it is beating a dead horse, however, what makes me laugh is when someone is reselling a limited item and tries to charge more than what ebay will let them for shipping. There is a LP up right now for $150, they guy has $4.00 shipping indicated, but in the listing says shipping is actually $5.99. Dude, done be a cheap *** and take the $4.00 and use your profits to cover the extra $2. Ha ha, I'm surprised he isnt adding the $0.57 cents per mile for driving to the post office.
Kinda like how a Lost Dogs seller, who is neither a friend or family member, wants an extra 3% to conduct a secure PayPal transaction.
No, that is for peace of mind.
Clearly I still do not know how to use these boards......
Post edited by PSUS2H on
Pittsburgh, PA September 28, 2005 || Washington, DC June 22, 2008 || Barstow, VA May 13, 2010 || Seattle, WA August 10, 2018 || Dana Point, CA September 29, 2018 (EV) || Dana Point, CA September 28, 2019 (EV) || Dana Point, CA September 25, 2021 (EV) || Dana Point, CA October 1, 2021 || Dana Point, CA October 2, 2021
I understand capitalism, I have a doctorate in philosophy, so that being said, there is a difference between "capitalism" and "greed". Why don't we go ahead and raise the price of milk by 500%, because people want milk, so why not......I'm sure the cow farmers will be happy...this is silly, people defending flippers
I havent seen a single person on here defending flippers. Placing some or all of the blame on the consumer for supporting flipping is in no way defending flippers.
I understand capitalism, I have a doctorate in philosophy, so that being said, there is a difference between "capitalism" and "greed". Why don't we go ahead and raise the price of milk by 500%, because people want milk, so why not......I'm sure the cow farmers will be happy...this is silly, people defending flippers
Well first of all, I do consider capitalism and greed to be pretty much synonymous. This debate has happened on these boards dozens of times, and I'd say the split on philosophies is about 50/50. I don't think either perspective is silly. They are just different perspectives (and I'll mention that I used to feel like you do. Over time and after a lot of observation, I actually changed my perspective on this). Your example doesn't work for me. Gouging people for basic necessities of life is not comparable in any way to the prices of luxury items like music and sports memorabilia. Plus, collecting is a competitive activity. This is actually a huge part of the draw; the actual search and attainment in the face of rarity is at least half of what draws people to the hobby of collecting in the first place. The reason the sellers are responsible is because they are the ones competing for the items. Take the auctions, for example. TONS of flippers do auctions, and the sellers all outbid one another. So how is that the flipper's responsibility? And it's generally the auctions that determine the prices, so the rest of the flippers watch that and price their stuff accordingly at a set price. That is totally the buyers dictating the prices.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Like it's uncouth to love Pearl Jam, and sell their items for a mark up, keeping them out of the hands of 'real fans'. It's an old argument on these forums. I recall early stages of things back in the Sony forums days.
I totally agree, the music has been overshadowed by an fing poster or a button. Enough, I will come for the music, not the merch line!
What do you mean overshadowed? How does other people standing in merch lines overshadow the music for you? For some people, it seems like the merch ADDS to their enjoyment of the music IMO. I'm not one of those people, but I don't see why those who are can't enjoy merch and the music at the same time. There is room for both I'm sure.
Sure, some people want a souvenir from an epic show, myself included. That being said, do you want to pay $450.00 for a poster???? I think not. So yes, in a way it does in some cases overshadow the purity of the music. I have seen hundreds of people at merch booths pushing and shoving for a pin, while the band is BUSTING THEIR ASS for us. I own a record store, and have always found the purity of music critical in my life. No poster has ever saved my life or helped me deal with hard times, but the music sure has cured me. That being said, my beef is with the filthy cockroach flippers who hire kids to get in line at Volcom to scoop up what should truly go to die hard fans. So, if you wanna pay $500.00 for a poster, go for it, but I will ALWAYS have my memories, which are way more valuable than some piece of poster board.
Hey, that's awesome man, I think a LOT of people get some sort of feeling from the music, but people get different meaning from the same song. I like the posters because SOMETIMES the poster artist puts a lot of thought into the poster and creates it by what vibe they get from the band or the city the poster is for.
like the Edmonton EMEK http://expressobeans.com/public/detail.php/141642 The representation is amazing, it makes for a great poster. The artwork is beautiful, sometimes people like to look at visual things to help their brain go into a different direction. I could look at this poster hundreds of times and see something different every time. just like music, a certain song can make you feel great, then at another time, that same song can remind you of not so happy times.
It's all perspective. Although, I refuse to pay a flipper hundreds of dollars for a poster. I've passed on many because I can't find them for a reasonable price.
The joy of life comes from our encounters with new experiences, and hence there is no greater joy than to have an endlessly changing horizon, for each day to have a new and different sun.
It just moves the massive line to after the show, when they should be trying to clear out.
The ideal situation is to take pre-orders on-line and ship, but that just creates more problems for the 10c warehouse I'm sure.
If they don't have to deal with any payments, that I don't think the lines would be much of a factor at all. All they'd have to do is look at a pre-pay voucher and grab the items. It would be super fast. What causes the massive lines is probs with payment, waiting for credit and debit to process, and people standing there humming and hawing about what to buy. All of those factors would disappear with pre-payment and in-person pick up (which could be done outside the venue if the venue wants people out fast). And it would save everyone the HUGE 10C shipping costs.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The joy of life comes from our encounters with new experiences, and hence there is no greater joy than to have an endlessly changing horizon, for each day to have a new and different sun.
I understand capitalism, I have a doctorate in philosophy, so that being said, there is a difference between "capitalism" and "greed". Why don't we go ahead and raise the price of milk by 500%, because people want milk, so why not......I'm sure the cow farmers will be happy...this is silly, people defending flippers
milk is not in short supply. food is also quite different from luxury items.
I understand capitalism, I have a doctorate in philosophy, so that being said, there is a difference between "capitalism" and "greed". Why don't we go ahead and raise the price of milk by 500%, because people want milk, so why not......I'm sure the cow farmers will be happy...this is silly, people defending flippers
milk is not in short supply. food is also quite different from luxury items.
PhD aside, I think LR missed this point. Happens when one is speaking emotionally.
Comments
If a poster costs $35 and sells for $100, it's because someone was willing to pay $100 for it. Tons of people are flooding the pages with "if you pick me up a poster I'll buy yours and pay for shipping!" That's not encouraging flippers, nor is it buying off flippers, but it affects the market price, effectively setting the minimum market value at $70.
If no one paid more than $35 for the posters, they wouldn't be selling for more than $35.
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
It could easily be solved by making more items. I posted this in a thread and someone countered me by saying the 10c gets stuck with alot of useless merch (hence mystery sales). This is true, but there are certain items you know will sell out. Posters for any show when Pearl Jam plays the NorthEast or Seattle (Northwest isn't so bad outside of the seattle shows). Stickers, Tshirts etc.. too.
It really is to bad the 10c doesn't simply allow you to preorder posters online. They did this for the 09 tours (I remember being able to do it for the calgary show I went to). it was awesome. I didn't have to try and protect a poster at a GA show, I was guaranteed one, and It shows up at my house in mint condition. From a planning standpoint 10c would know precisely how many to print for users of the website. They could do extra runoff for the venue, but at least their would be a surefire way to get one. I wonder why the 10c abandoned it. It worked out awesome in '09.
Posters for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/117469/posters-for-sale
T-Shirts for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/149289/pj-t-shirt-trade-or-sale
This debate has happened on these boards dozens of times, and I'd say the split on philosophies is about 50/50. I don't think either perspective is silly. They are just different perspectives (and I'll mention that I used to feel like you do. Over time and after a lot of observation, I actually changed my perspective on this).
Your example doesn't work for me. Gouging people for basic necessities of life is not comparable in any way to the prices of luxury items like music and sports memorabilia.
Plus, collecting is a competitive activity. This is actually a huge part of the draw; the actual search and attainment in the face of rarity is at least half of what draws people to the hobby of collecting in the first place. The reason the sellers are responsible is because they are the ones competing for the items. Take the auctions, for example. TONS of flippers do auctions, and the sellers all outbid one another. So how is that the flipper's responsibility? And it's generally the auctions that determine the prices, so the rest of the flippers watch that and price their stuff accordingly at a set price. That is totally the buyers dictating the prices.
like the Edmonton EMEK http://expressobeans.com/public/detail.php/141642
The representation is amazing, it makes for a great poster. The artwork is beautiful, sometimes people like to look at visual things to help their brain go into a different direction. I could look at this poster hundreds of times and see something different every time. just like music, a certain song can make you feel great, then at another time, that same song can remind you of not so happy times.
It's all perspective. Although, I refuse to pay a flipper hundreds of dollars for a poster. I've passed on many because I can't find them for a reasonable price.
- Christopher McCandless
The ideal situation is to take pre-orders on-line and ship, but that just creates more problems for the 10c warehouse I'm sure.
- Christopher McCandless
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Aqua-Lung-Sport-PROFLEX-FX-Swimming-Fins-Flippers-Large-Size-/201427980147?nav=SEARCH
amazing
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com