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Album Shipping, We're charged for standard domestic but actually they ship via media mail.

evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
in The Porch
The 10 Club is ripping people off with shipping prices on albums. I was charged $8.99 for standard domestic shipping on my Mad Season album but when the album came the label said it was shipped via media mail which is less than $3 shipping. This is very dishonest and not a way to treat loyal fans.
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    2-feign-reluctance2-feign-reluctance TigerTown, USA Posts: 23,141
    Calling postal expert...
    www.cluthelee.com
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    maverickmaverick Posts: 1,183
    Shipping may have been $3 but don't forget the costs of shipping materials (which are very good) and the cost of labor to package them up. $9 seems fair to me.
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    edited September 2015
    Yeah they are so good I'm returning it for a replacement because two corners are crushed and the records ripped through 2 sides of the sleeve. I've bought 4 records through the 10 club and 3 were damaged. Shipping is less than $3, most likely less than $2 since its presorted and large quantity and they are not even using the shipping service that they indicate on the invoice. Standard domestic is different than media mail, that in and of itself is dishonest.
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    arakiasarakias Posts: 281
    It isn't a rip off - and media mail shipping isn't less than $3 in every instance it is by weight. Factor in packaging and labor and it's not terrible. If you aren't a fan of the pricing, no one is making you buy anything.
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    edited September 2015
    You should know what you are talking about before posting media mail is $1.88 for 1lb in bulk. https://www.usps.com/ship/mail-shipping-services.htm
    Not to mention that the invoice says a different type of shipping than the type actually used. $8.99 shipping is very much a ripoff.
    Post edited by evdjj3j on
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    HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,418
    It's not the same rate from 1-70 lbs.
    http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm#1887537
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    edited September 2015
    Here is the price list by weight. http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm#1887537 You can ship up to 15lb for less than $8.99 and the plastic envelope costs pennies.
    Post edited by evdjj3j on
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    edited September 2015
    I updated my post and posted the shipping price list. What they are doing is unethical. I know when I sell something I ship it the method I say I'm going to and charge the actual rate. Shipping is not a way to pay for labor, if it is it should be called shipping and handling. Labor is payed with the price of the product. I can't believe you people are defending this practice.
    Post edited by evdjj3j on
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    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,937
    edited September 2015
    maverick said:

    Shipping may have been $3 but don't forget the costs of shipping materials (which are very good) and the cost of labor to package them up. $9 seems fair to me.

    Packing and preparing a box, when it's a high-demand and typically single-SKU as in the case of 9 out of 10 pre-orders, should be roughly 2 minutes. Insert the record, tape the box. Migrating shipping information and printing and affixing the sticker is another 2 minutes (assuming Ten Club is archaic and manually putting shipping information in for orders). Add another minute for fluff. An average warehouse worker receives a salary of $11.00 per hour in Seattle, and this order has then used 5/60 minutes = 1/12th of $11.00 = $0.91.

    Shipping materials should be no more than $1.00 per order, or the Ten Club is suboptimal on packing materials.

    $3.00 + $0.91 + $1.00 = $4.91 = 83% markup if the total cost is $9.00. As a consumer it might hurt to hear this, but this is within reason for an eCommerce transaction with a low dollar shipping cost. Also, typically companies will tier the markup such that high dollar value shipping costs are marked up less.

    I'd venture a guess that they're only breaking even when you factor in warehouse inefficiencies, poorly negotiated shipping rates, the fact that it might not be a dedicated warehouse worker packing boxes, the fact that the salary of the person packing boxes is likely higher, time where they aren't shipping or receiving, etc. There are too many factors, and even this basic calculation shows they are calculating rates within reason (IMO).
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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    deadendpdeadendp Northeast Ohio Posts: 10,434
    If you have purchased 4 items, had 3 damaged and feel as though you are being ripped off, there is an option NOT to purchase items from 10c. Personally, I haven't had an issue. However, I will say that I haven't ordered a ton from them. I have some vinyl that came from them and it was fine.

    Packaging does cost a fair amount. You have postal cost and you also have man power to package those items as well as square footage for storage of such items. Costs aren't as black and white as you make them.
    2014: Cincinnati
    2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    The packaging they use does not cost much it's a plastic bag. But the real issue is saying they are going to ship via one method but actually shipping via an inferior method. There is no defense for this, it is lying. I would have no problem if they would have used the shipping method that was promised.
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    bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,529
    I don't know if the cost is reasonable or not, but don't expect Amazon or Wal-Mart shipping costs for basically a mom and pop operation. Everyone hates the big corporations and loves the small business until they have to pay more for the small business product.
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    I just returned from the post office where the clerk asked me if I was sure I wanted to use media mail since the package has a fragile sticker on it because she knows how media mail is handled. I told her I didn't give a fuck what happened to it since that's how they sent it to me.
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    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,937
    evdjj3j said:

    The packaging they use does not cost much it's a plastic bag. But the real issue is saying they are going to ship via one method but actually shipping via an inferior method. There is no defense for this, it is lying. I would have no problem if they would have used the shipping method that was promised.

    Where do you think the box comes from? It's not from the courier.

    Doing a bait and switch on the shipping method, I agree, is sleazy.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    Benjs they are using automated shipping and getting a bulk rate it's noted on the shipping label so you estimate is high.
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    my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    nothing wrong with keeping them honest... no need to squeeze fans for every penny
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    tino_11tino_11 Posts: 1,941
    If you US customers feel hard done by, spare a thought for us in other countries. Over $30 to ship a 2lp set.

    Still ordered it though :-|
    2010: London
    2012: Manchester I, Manchester II, Manchester (EV) 
    2014: Milan, Leeds, Milton Keynes 
    2017: London II (EV) 
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    2019: London (EV)
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    Benjs mine didn't come in a box. It had a piece of cardboard in a plastic bag.
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    I feel for you tino you guys really get milked.
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    benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,937
    evdjj3j said:

    Benjs mine didn't come in a box. It had a piece of cardboard in a plastic bag.

    Regarding the bulk rate - I can tell you for a fact that a bulk rate that a company gets is negotiated, and if the negotiation was long ago enough, it's very possible that the bulk rate from, say, two years ago, or poorly negotiated, was higher than you can get today as a walk-in customer. I know that because our business had the same issue until we rectified it.

    Regarding shipping materials, fine, let's assume that there is a $0.00 charge to Ten Club on shipping materials (still unrealistic).

    Your point about the wrong shipping method being given to you is a legitimate issue. Regarding the rest - I'm sorry, but it's up to you as a customer whether or not you're willing to accept the possibility that a company might be billing their shipping with a 200% markup, and using it as a profit centre. It is a business's right to do this if they wish.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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    deadendpdeadendp Northeast Ohio Posts: 10,434
    evdjj3j said:

    Benjs mine didn't come in a box. It had a piece of cardboard in a plastic bag.

    I've gotten vinyl from 10c. It was more than a "piece of cardboard in a plastic bag." It's an appropriately sized box with an outer plastic bag, but there is no use in arguing. Baseline, you feel that they charge too much for the packaging they provide. You feel that what service that they use isn't what they claim to use. Purchase elsewhere. No problem with that. It is a choice that you are making. If you feel that you aren't getting the value for what you are paying for, don't continue to feed that which you feel is screwing you.
    2014: Cincinnati
    2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    Nice argument. Don't question the Pearl Jam's unethical business practices and yes mine was literally a piece of cardboard wrapped around the album and put in a plastic bag.
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    SK203708SK203708 Posts: 48
    This discussion reminds me of Vault4-vinyl shipping. I paid 37,49 Dollars (Int. shipping). Well, the record was shipped from within the EU (Czech R. to Germany) and arrived in very bad condition. I complained to 10c about the shipping-cost rip-off and the condition. Never heard a word from them. Still, I purchased Vault 5. Why? I love PJ, I love vinyl - and it's the only place where I can get that item. Stuff I can get elsewhere I'll get elsewhere.
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    edited September 2015
    You should have returned that shit. Don't let stardom make you lower your standards. We are all equal they are no better than anyone else.
    Post edited by evdjj3j on
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    SK203708SK203708 Posts: 48
    edited September 2015
    evdjj3j said:

    You should have returned that shit. Don't let stardom make you lower your standards.

    I would have if it was returnable within the country i live in- but after paying 87,50 for the record I didn't see the point in making it way over 100, because I needed to return it to the US. I decided to cut my losses I guess. Still, I'm very curious from where they'll ship Vault 5 and in what condition it'll arrive. From what one could read on these boards it's very likely that they'll gett pressed at GZ (czech R.) again.
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    You are getting fucked on shipping. In the future if you want you can have it shipped to me and then I'll ship it to you for what it costs.
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    Horse2345Horse2345 Posts: 3,227
    benjs said:

    evdjj3j said:

    Benjs mine didn't come in a box. It had a piece of cardboard in a plastic bag.

    Regarding the bulk rate - I can tell you for a fact that a bulk rate that a company gets is negotiated, and if the negotiation was long ago enough, it's very possible that the bulk rate from, say, two years ago, or poorly negotiated, was higher than you can get today as a walk-in customer. I know that because our business had the same issue until we rectified it.

    Regarding shipping materials, fine, let's assume that there is a $0.00 charge to Ten Club on shipping materials (still unrealistic).

    Your point about the wrong shipping method being given to you is a legitimate issue. Regarding the rest - I'm sorry, but it's up to you as a customer whether or not you're willing to accept the possibility that a company might be billing their shipping with a 200% markup, and using it as a profit centre. It is a business's right to do this if they wish.
    Just a thought about the bulk rate negotiation, i'm not sure if that is true as they have jacked up the prices since last year. I ordered the mugs and a scarf for $15.99 shipping last year this time its $20.99 just for the mugs. Ridiculous for something that probably weighs a pound, has no tracking and takes at least a month to Canada. It takes me 2.5 hours on a boat to get to Seattle!
    UBC 92, Vancouver 93, Vancouver 98, Seattle 02, Vancouver 03, Vancouver 05, Gorge 06, Gorge 06,Seattle 09,Seattle 09, Vancouver09, Montreal 11, Toronto 11,Toronto 11, Vancouver 11,Vancouver 13, Seattle 13
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    The don't expect any sympathy the standard reply is if you don't like it go somewhere else, but don't dare hold the 10 club to any ethical standards, how dare you.
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    evdjj3jevdjj3j Old Mountains Posts: 114
    I just bought the Touch Me I'm Dick that just got posted from Bull Moose and shipping was $2.99. I cant believe you people are defending the 10 Club when they are seriously fucking people on shipping.
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    Horse2345Horse2345 Posts: 3,227
    I was doing some playing around and what i don't get is how they determine the prices? Shipping prices are weight based yet i put in 2 different items that fall in roughly the same weight and one is $9.99 and one is $20.99? Makes no sense.
    UBC 92, Vancouver 93, Vancouver 98, Seattle 02, Vancouver 03, Vancouver 05, Gorge 06, Gorge 06,Seattle 09,Seattle 09, Vancouver09, Montreal 11, Toronto 11,Toronto 11, Vancouver 11,Vancouver 13, Seattle 13
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