only alcohol in vip1?????

24

Comments

  • ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,007
    ++ sigh ++

    maybe ed will visit your pen and give you a sip-o-his. Alcohol is still overrated.
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,490

    on2legs said:

    Anybody else thinks it's weird that the whole point of Global Citizen is to break down economic barriers, end poverty, and give people equal access to food, medicine, and education but they segregate people into pens at these shows and make more amenities available to those who have more money?

    I'm not knocking them.... I think it's a great organization, but the whole premise seems weird in light of their goals.

    Spot on, I for one am sick of absurdly rich people offering 2 hours of their time, asking the average Joe, $$, to save the world. I know they do a lot, even donate their own money, raise awareness, etc. but % wise, what people spend to attend these events, is pocket change to the artists.

    I hate to be negative, but it's getting old.
    They also pay a lot of taxes.
  • nycrats said:

    You could go to Central Park now, locate where you think your approximate holding pen will be, dig a hole and bury your beloved booze. Show time you just find the spot and dig it out with your hands
    What could go wrong?

    haha!! Best post ever! The sad thing is that i heard that food/water vendors are really limited and run out very quickly. I wish they would let people bring their own lunches and drinks with them. Being forced to buy at the festival Seems like a waste of plastic (all the bottled water) and gross processed food---both of which seem to go against Global Citizen's goals, no?
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,929

    PP193448 said:

    on2legs said:

    Anybody else thinks it's weird that the whole point of Global Citizen is to break down economic barriers, end poverty, and give people equal access to food, medicine, and education but they segregate people into pens at these shows and make more amenities available to those who have more money?

    I'm not knocking them.... I think it's a great organization, but the whole premise seems weird in light of their goals.

    Everyone better play nice in their respective play pens. Seems crazy...
    lol
    my2hands said:

    on2legs said:

    Anybody else thinks it's weird that the whole point of Global Citizen is to break down economic barriers, end poverty, and give people equal access to food, medicine, and education but they segregate people into pens at these shows and make more amenities available to those who have more money?

    I'm not knocking them.... I think it's a great organization, but the whole premise seems weird in light of their goals.

    The pen style of layout is for safety and logistics... not to enforce a social caste system lol
    I rarely in all these years of being around here ever disagree with your opinion, but this time I do. It's totally a caste system. VIP1 gets liquor and whatnot, while VIP 2 and 3 get nothing, that right there is a social caste system. GA isn't truly GA, it's a first come, first serve get in a pen. They even tell you in the FAQ's make sure everyone in your group shows up together or else you won't be together. Now at other festivals, it's just an open field with no pens and come one, come all. At MIA I had people around me whose friends showed up late and still were able to be near them
    VIP1 pays an exorbitant amount compared to VIP2 and VIP3. VIP1 includes an open bar - VIP2 and VIP3 do not, but there's been literally nothing said about whether VIP2/3 allow you to purchase alcohol or not. Until they confirm one way or another, isn't this an assumption?

    Also, looking at this seating chart, the quantity of free tickets compared to paid is staggering, and the reality is, with enough time invested, one could get a better spot than any of us who paid for VIP2/3 for free.
    image

    Having heard stories of people paid to stand in line for PJ merchandise (let alone GA), I completely understand the no exceptions pen system. Not to mention the logistical benefits of the pen organization (something which I believe Pearl Jam used to do). How the promoters wish to cordon people off is their prerogative, and I don't really understand how this could possibly represent social exclusion. Great that MIA didn't opt to do this, but these guys did. Such is life.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 18,810
    Having been to this festival before I can confirm the pens are not a social caste system. They are used for safety purposes and crowd control. Show up early and you will be close. Show up later and you will be farther away. It's that simple.

    Yes, VIP is different but also constitutes a very small percentage of the total tickets. Most who will be there will be carrying free tickets, and the earlier they arrive the closer they will be.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • nycratsnycrats Posts: 1,348
    JimmyV said:

    Having been to this festival before I can confirm the pens are not a social caste system. They are used for safety purposes and crowd control. Show up early and you will be close. Show up later and you will be farther away. It's that simple.

    Yes, VIP is different but also constitutes a very small percentage of the total tickets. Most who will be there will be carrying free tickets, and the earlier they arrive the closer they will be.

    has anyone here been to a 30k plus person festival that had this system in place? i think GCF is the only one that employs this system. ive been to at least a dozen festivals, some up to 80k people, and they didnt have the ga barricades, or have any issues with safety for that matter.
    '98: Camden 1 '00: JB2 '03: MSG1 '04: Boston 1 '05: AC1
    '06: Irving Plaza, East Rutherford 1 & 2 '07: Lolla '08: Camden 2, MSG2, Beacon
    '09 :Philly 1 & 2 '10: Buffalo, Newark, MSG1, MSG2
    '11: PJ20 1 & 2 '12: Missoula '13: Wrigley, BK2, Philly 1 & 2, Hartford
    '14: Ams 1 & 2, Cincy, St Louis, Detroit, Moline '15: Central Park
    '16 Philly 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Toronto 1 & 2, Fenway 1, Wrigley 1
    '17 Brooklyn hall of fame ‘18 Fenway 1
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 18,810
    nycrats said:

    JimmyV said:

    Having been to this festival before I can confirm the pens are not a social caste system. They are used for safety purposes and crowd control. Show up early and you will be close. Show up later and you will be farther away. It's that simple.

    Yes, VIP is different but also constitutes a very small percentage of the total tickets. Most who will be there will be carrying free tickets, and the earlier they arrive the closer they will be.

    has anyone here been to a 30k plus person festival that had this system in place? i think GCF is the only one that employs this system. ive been to at least a dozen festivals, some up to 80k people, and they didnt have the ga barricades, or have any issues with safety for that matter.
    And? There is more than one way to do things. This is how Global Citizen does it. Show up early and you'll be close.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • nycratsnycrats Posts: 1,348
    JimmyV said:

    nycrats said:

    JimmyV said:

    Having been to this festival before I can confirm the pens are not a social caste system. They are used for safety purposes and crowd control. Show up early and you will be close. Show up later and you will be farther away. It's that simple.

    Yes, VIP is different but also constitutes a very small percentage of the total tickets. Most who will be there will be carrying free tickets, and the earlier they arrive the closer they will be.

    has anyone here been to a 30k plus person festival that had this system in place? i think GCF is the only one that employs this system. ive been to at least a dozen festivals, some up to 80k people, and they didnt have the ga barricades, or have any issues with safety for that matter.
    And? There is more than one way to do things. This is how Global Citizen does it. Show up early and you'll be close.

    well if every other festival, seriously every other one, from a single band to something as large as glastonbury with 100k+ people does it the normal way, then GCF does cattle pens, that really does make them the outlier. they are doing things differently for reasons sorta unknown (they claim safety, but that doesnt really make sense).

    i purchased vip tix so im not gonna get there early to get close. just speaking objectively about a festival that i have interest in.
    '98: Camden 1 '00: JB2 '03: MSG1 '04: Boston 1 '05: AC1
    '06: Irving Plaza, East Rutherford 1 & 2 '07: Lolla '08: Camden 2, MSG2, Beacon
    '09 :Philly 1 & 2 '10: Buffalo, Newark, MSG1, MSG2
    '11: PJ20 1 & 2 '12: Missoula '13: Wrigley, BK2, Philly 1 & 2, Hartford
    '14: Ams 1 & 2, Cincy, St Louis, Detroit, Moline '15: Central Park
    '16 Philly 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Toronto 1 & 2, Fenway 1, Wrigley 1
    '17 Brooklyn hall of fame ‘18 Fenway 1
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,490
    nycrats said:

    JimmyV said:

    Having been to this festival before I can confirm the pens are not a social caste system. They are used for safety purposes and crowd control. Show up early and you will be close. Show up later and you will be farther away. It's that simple.

    Yes, VIP is different but also constitutes a very small percentage of the total tickets. Most who will be there will be carrying free tickets, and the earlier they arrive the closer they will be.

    has anyone here been to a 30k plus person festival that had this system in place? i think GCF is the only one that employs this system. ive been to at least a dozen festivals, some up to 80k people, and they didnt have the ga barricades, or have any issues with safety for that matter.
    Like others have mentioned though, the pens aren't based on anything but getting there first, not some social order. Sure there is a VIP area, but I am VIP3 and there will be thousands that are much closer to the stage than me in GA that got free tickets.

    Some festivals have multiple stages so you can't have pens other than for VIP areas. Other festivals are in the middle of a field far away from the downtown of a city. This festival is in the middle of NYC so who knows what rules are required and what insurance/security costs with and without these pens.



  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,929
    nycrats said:

    JimmyV said:

    nycrats said:

    JimmyV said:

    Having been to this festival before I can confirm the pens are not a social caste system. They are used for safety purposes and crowd control. Show up early and you will be close. Show up later and you will be farther away. It's that simple.

    Yes, VIP is different but also constitutes a very small percentage of the total tickets. Most who will be there will be carrying free tickets, and the earlier they arrive the closer they will be.

    has anyone here been to a 30k plus person festival that had this system in place? i think GCF is the only one that employs this system. ive been to at least a dozen festivals, some up to 80k people, and they didnt have the ga barricades, or have any issues with safety for that matter.
    And? There is more than one way to do things. This is how Global Citizen does it. Show up early and you'll be close.

    well if every other festival, seriously every other one, from a single band to something as large as glastonbury with 100k+ people does it the normal way, then GCF does cattle pens, that really does make them the outlier. they are doing things differently for reasons sorta unknown (they claim safety, but that doesnt really make sense).

    i purchased vip tix so im not gonna get there early to get close. just speaking objectively about a festival that i have interest in.
    Again - it is up to the promoters to decide how to lay out their general admission for the concert they put on free of charge to most patrons. I went a few years back (Black Keys, Foo Fighters, Neil Young) and found it to be a totally practical procedure. I'm guessing the promoters found it to be as well, as otherwise they'd have stopped using this method. You say reasons unknown, they say safety, you refute that claim - what do you think is the reason then?
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • nycratsnycrats Posts: 1,348
    benjs said:

    nycrats said:

    JimmyV said:

    nycrats said:

    JimmyV said:

    Having been to this festival before I can confirm the pens are not a social caste system. They are used for safety purposes and crowd control. Show up early and you will be close. Show up later and you will be farther away. It's that simple.

    Yes, VIP is different but also constitutes a very small percentage of the total tickets. Most who will be there will be carrying free tickets, and the earlier they arrive the closer they will be.

    has anyone here been to a 30k plus person festival that had this system in place? i think GCF is the only one that employs this system. ive been to at least a dozen festivals, some up to 80k people, and they didnt have the ga barricades, or have any issues with safety for that matter.
    And? There is more than one way to do things. This is how Global Citizen does it. Show up early and you'll be close.

    well if every other festival, seriously every other one, from a single band to something as large as glastonbury with 100k+ people does it the normal way, then GCF does cattle pens, that really does make them the outlier. they are doing things differently for reasons sorta unknown (they claim safety, but that doesnt really make sense).

    i purchased vip tix so im not gonna get there early to get close. just speaking objectively about a festival that i have interest in.
    Again - it is up to the promoters to decide how to lay out their general admission for the concert they put on free of charge to most patrons. I went a few years back (Black Keys, Foo Fighters, Neil Young) and found it to be a totally practical procedure. I'm guessing the promoters found it to be as well, as otherwise they'd have stopped using this method. You say reasons unknown, they say safety, you refute that claim - what do you think is the reason then?
    not sure the reason really. perhaps it is a logistical issue specific to central park. thats the only thing i could think of. doesnt really affect me but it is odd if some friends go at 4pm and others at 6pm they cant meet up.
    '98: Camden 1 '00: JB2 '03: MSG1 '04: Boston 1 '05: AC1
    '06: Irving Plaza, East Rutherford 1 & 2 '07: Lolla '08: Camden 2, MSG2, Beacon
    '09 :Philly 1 & 2 '10: Buffalo, Newark, MSG1, MSG2
    '11: PJ20 1 & 2 '12: Missoula '13: Wrigley, BK2, Philly 1 & 2, Hartford
    '14: Ams 1 & 2, Cincy, St Louis, Detroit, Moline '15: Central Park
    '16 Philly 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Toronto 1 & 2, Fenway 1, Wrigley 1
    '17 Brooklyn hall of fame ‘18 Fenway 1
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Shea Stadium Posts: 13,940
    edited July 2015
    But it is a social order though, the first people who get there early get a good spot in the first pens, the rest who show up late don't get a good spot and are stuck in a crappy pen. To me that is a social order, just as much as VIP1 is different from VIP2 and 3 again social order. Why should the rich get a nicer time, just cause they paid more? It should be we're all one, not separate for a "cause". DMB didn't put people into pens like cattle and they had a much larger audience in the park. Just my opinion, doesn't make me right as much as it makes your opinion right. Also can we please cut the bs bout hiding behind this is for charity and for the greater good. A charity shouldn't have you become a peddle pusher for them. The more points you accumulate the better chance you have over someone getting tickets, again social caste system. I'm going to this festival for one reason and one reason only, to see Pearl Jam.
    Post edited by Gary Carter on
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,929
    edited July 2015

    But it is a social order though, the first people who get there early get a good spot in the first pens, the rest who show up late don't get a good spot and are stuck in a crappy pen. To me that is a social order, just as much as VIP1 is different from VIP2 and 3 again social order. Why should the rich get a nicer time, just cause they paid more? It should be we're all one, not separate for a "cause". DMB didn't put people into pens like cattle and they had a much larger audience in the park. Just my opinion, doesn't make me right as much as it makes your opinion right. Also can we please cut the bs bout hiding behind this is for charity and for the greater good. A charity shouldn't have you become a peddle pusher for them. The more points you accumulate the better chance you have over someone getting tickets, again social caste system. I'm going to this festival for one reason and one reason only, to see Pearl Jam.

    Fair enough.

    My take: If I go to a GA show, I'm entitled to the spot I find myself in based on the time I get to the line. Being able to weasel my way to the front is just me carelessly getting what I want, and not really caring that others waited all day in line. The age-old premise for GA: wait longer, get closer, show up late, be further. Yes, the fact that they found a solution to people weaselling their way to the front is inconvenient to those who show up late and wish they hadn't. No, I don't think it makes it a "social order".

    I have a much easier time believing the VIP tiers are "social order", as you pay to get into them.

    That being said, "social order" in charity is hardly a new idea. You give $10 to a charity, they give you a thank you card. You give $4 million - they take you out for a $1000 meal and let you meet Eddie Vedder, blah blah blah.

    At the end of the day, a charity is entitled to manage its ventures how ever it pleases.

    Total occupancy is 60,000 in the park apparently. To be conservative, let's say 50,000 people will see big-name musicians free (over 2x MSG), and 10,000 people will raise over $2 million to help manage the costs of this event. So what? Most charity events are entirely paid, and not free. And a charity absolutely should have you become a peddle pusher for them: the point of charity events is to gain exposure. This is how they survive - they market themselves.

    And if all of this doesn't convince you that this is fair, take your free tickets, along with your U2's Songs of Innocence, complain about the fact that you received a gift and that it isn't what you wanted for a little bit, and toss it in the trash.
    Post edited by benjs on
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Shea Stadium Posts: 13,940
    benjs said:

    But it is a social order though, the first people who get there early get a good spot in the first pens, the rest who show up late don't get a good spot and are stuck in a crappy pen. To me that is a social order, just as much as VIP1 is different from VIP2 and 3 again social order. Why should the rich get a nicer time, just cause they paid more? It should be we're all one, not separate for a "cause". DMB didn't put people into pens like cattle and they had a much larger audience in the park. Just my opinion, doesn't make me right as much as it makes your opinion right. Also can we please cut the bs bout hiding behind this is for charity and for the greater good. A charity shouldn't have you become a peddle pusher for them. The more points you accumulate the better chance you have over someone getting tickets, again social caste system. I'm going to this festival for one reason and one reason only, to see Pearl Jam.

    Fair enough.

    My take: If I go to a GA show, I'm entitled to the spot I find myself in based on the time I get to the line. Being able to weasel my way to the front is just me carelessly getting what I want, and not really caring that others waited all day in line. The age-old premise for GA: wait longer, get closer, show up late, be further. Yes, the fact that they found a solution to people weaselling their way to the front is inconvenient to those who show up late and wish they hadn't. No, I don't think it makes it a "social order".

    I have a much easier time believing the VIP tiers are "social order", as you pay to get into them.

    That being said, "social order" in charity is hardly a new idea. You give $10 to a charity, they give you a thank you card. You give $4 million - they take you out for a $1000 meal and let you meet Eddie Vedder, blah blah blah.

    At the end of the day, a charity is entitled to manage its ventures how ever it pleases.

    Total occupancy is 60,000 in the park apparently. To be conservative, let's say 50,000 people will see big-name musicians free (over 2x MSG), and 10,000 people will raise over $2 million to help manage the costs of this event. So what? Most charity events are entirely paid, and not free. And a charity absolutely should have you become a peddle pusher for them: the point of charity events is to gain exposure. This is how they survive - they market themselves.

    And if all of this doesn't convince you that this is fair, take your free tickets, along with your U2's Songs of Innocence, complain about the fact that you received a gift and that it isn't what you wanted for a little bit, and toss it in the trash.
    The pen system isn't fair but will agree to disagree on that. Oh and btw, I hate U2 and wouldn't go see them if you paid me and have VIP3. Just for the fact of you being a smartass, I hope the freebies are junk, so I can throw it in the trash, just to piss you off even more than I already have :). Hell I even record me throwing my freebies into the trash, lol.

    Let me ask you this, would you be this defensive of the pen system if The Grateful Dead did the same thing for GA at their 5 fare thee well shows or would you say hey that's unfair?
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 18,810
    Isn't a system where those who show up first are guaranteed to be in the front and those who show up late are guaranteed to be behind them the definition of fair? Not sure what some of you are arguing.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,929

    benjs said:

    But it is a social order though, the first people who get there early get a good spot in the first pens, the rest who show up late don't get a good spot and are stuck in a crappy pen. To me that is a social order, just as much as VIP1 is different from VIP2 and 3 again social order. Why should the rich get a nicer time, just cause they paid more? It should be we're all one, not separate for a "cause". DMB didn't put people into pens like cattle and they had a much larger audience in the park. Just my opinion, doesn't make me right as much as it makes your opinion right. Also can we please cut the bs bout hiding behind this is for charity and for the greater good. A charity shouldn't have you become a peddle pusher for them. The more points you accumulate the better chance you have over someone getting tickets, again social caste system. I'm going to this festival for one reason and one reason only, to see Pearl Jam.

    Fair enough.

    My take: If I go to a GA show, I'm entitled to the spot I find myself in based on the time I get to the line. Being able to weasel my way to the front is just me carelessly getting what I want, and not really caring that others waited all day in line. The age-old premise for GA: wait longer, get closer, show up late, be further. Yes, the fact that they found a solution to people weaselling their way to the front is inconvenient to those who show up late and wish they hadn't. No, I don't think it makes it a "social order".

    I have a much easier time believing the VIP tiers are "social order", as you pay to get into them.

    That being said, "social order" in charity is hardly a new idea. You give $10 to a charity, they give you a thank you card. You give $4 million - they take you out for a $1000 meal and let you meet Eddie Vedder, blah blah blah.

    At the end of the day, a charity is entitled to manage its ventures how ever it pleases.

    Total occupancy is 60,000 in the park apparently. To be conservative, let's say 50,000 people will see big-name musicians free (over 2x MSG), and 10,000 people will raise over $2 million to help manage the costs of this event. So what? Most charity events are entirely paid, and not free. And a charity absolutely should have you become a peddle pusher for them: the point of charity events is to gain exposure. This is how they survive - they market themselves.

    And if all of this doesn't convince you that this is fair, take your free tickets, along with your U2's Songs of Innocence, complain about the fact that you received a gift and that it isn't what you wanted for a little bit, and toss it in the trash.
    The pen system isn't fair but will agree to disagree on that. Oh and btw, I hate U2 and wouldn't go see them if you paid me and have VIP3. Just for the fact of you being a smartass, I hope the freebies are junk, so I can throw it in the trash, just to piss you off even more than I already have :). Hell I even record me throwing my freebies into the trash, lol.

    Let me ask you this, would you be this defensive of the pen system if The Grateful Dead did the same thing for GA at their 5 fare thee well shows or would you say hey that's unfair?
    I have VIP 2 and I'm not too concerned about the freebies either. That being said, I had no problem with the pen system several years ago at the Black Keys/Foo Fighters/Neil Young show I attended!

    And I'm not pissed off, just disagree with you. :)

    If the Grateful Dead did the same thing, I'd say it's the prerogative of the promoters (just as it is here), and if I wasn't game for that, I wouldn't have applied for floor tickets. No big deal!

    Sorry that the people at the back of the queue can no longer easily slink to the front of a venue without waiting, but "it isn't fair" isn't an argument, it's a statement.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Gary CarterGary Carter Shea Stadium Posts: 13,940
    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    But it is a social order though, the first people who get there early get a good spot in the first pens, the rest who show up late don't get a good spot and are stuck in a crappy pen. To me that is a social order, just as much as VIP1 is different from VIP2 and 3 again social order. Why should the rich get a nicer time, just cause they paid more? It should be we're all one, not separate for a "cause". DMB didn't put people into pens like cattle and they had a much larger audience in the park. Just my opinion, doesn't make me right as much as it makes your opinion right. Also can we please cut the bs bout hiding behind this is for charity and for the greater good. A charity shouldn't have you become a peddle pusher for them. The more points you accumulate the better chance you have over someone getting tickets, again social caste system. I'm going to this festival for one reason and one reason only, to see Pearl Jam.

    Fair enough.

    My take: If I go to a GA show, I'm entitled to the spot I find myself in based on the time I get to the line. Being able to weasel my way to the front is just me carelessly getting what I want, and not really caring that others waited all day in line. The age-old premise for GA: wait longer, get closer, show up late, be further. Yes, the fact that they found a solution to people weaselling their way to the front is inconvenient to those who show up late and wish they hadn't. No, I don't think it makes it a "social order".

    I have a much easier time believing the VIP tiers are "social order", as you pay to get into them.

    That being said, "social order" in charity is hardly a new idea. You give $10 to a charity, they give you a thank you card. You give $4 million - they take you out for a $1000 meal and let you meet Eddie Vedder, blah blah blah.

    At the end of the day, a charity is entitled to manage its ventures how ever it pleases.

    Total occupancy is 60,000 in the park apparently. To be conservative, let's say 50,000 people will see big-name musicians free (over 2x MSG), and 10,000 people will raise over $2 million to help manage the costs of this event. So what? Most charity events are entirely paid, and not free. And a charity absolutely should have you become a peddle pusher for them: the point of charity events is to gain exposure. This is how they survive - they market themselves.

    And if all of this doesn't convince you that this is fair, take your free tickets, along with your U2's Songs of Innocence, complain about the fact that you received a gift and that it isn't what you wanted for a little bit, and toss it in the trash.
    The pen system isn't fair but will agree to disagree on that. Oh and btw, I hate U2 and wouldn't go see them if you paid me and have VIP3. Just for the fact of you being a smartass, I hope the freebies are junk, so I can throw it in the trash, just to piss you off even more than I already have :). Hell I even record me throwing my freebies into the trash, lol.

    Let me ask you this, would you be this defensive of the pen system if The Grateful Dead did the same thing for GA at their 5 fare thee well shows or would you say hey that's unfair?
    I have VIP 2 and I'm not too concerned about the freebies either. That being said, I had no problem with the pen system several years ago at the Black Keys/Foo Fighters/Neil Young show I attended!

    And I'm not pissed off, just disagree with you. :)

    If the Grateful Dead did the same thing, I'd say it's the prerogative of the promoters (just as it is here), and if I wasn't game for that, I wouldn't have applied for floor tickets. No big deal!

    Sorry that the people at the back of the queue can no longer easily slink to the front of a venue without waiting, but "it isn't fair" isn't an argument, it's a statement.
    Ahh ok sorry for the misunderstanding, all good dude.

    Yes I agree it's a great way to stop people from crashing the front, but what about the people who have work or whatnot and show up late and wanna be near their friends? They shouldn't suffer because of idiots. I guess the point is some of us aren't used to a pen system for a festival and really don't understand why they are doing it this way. I guess people like me and others have to realize not every festival is gonna be like a utopian society for a day where people just hang out and chill and smoke pot or whatever if they want to or have some liquor. Sucks that this festival isn't like that, but it is what it is
    Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
    Sammi: Wanna just break up?

  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,490

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    But it is a social order though, the first people who get there early get a good spot in the first pens, the rest who show up late don't get a good spot and are stuck in a crappy pen. To me that is a social order, just as much as VIP1 is different from VIP2 and 3 again social order. Why should the rich get a nicer time, just cause they paid more? It should be we're all one, not separate for a "cause". DMB didn't put people into pens like cattle and they had a much larger audience in the park. Just my opinion, doesn't make me right as much as it makes your opinion right. Also can we please cut the bs bout hiding behind this is for charity and for the greater good. A charity shouldn't have you become a peddle pusher for them. The more points you accumulate the better chance you have over someone getting tickets, again social caste system. I'm going to this festival for one reason and one reason only, to see Pearl Jam.

    Fair enough.

    My take: If I go to a GA show, I'm entitled to the spot I find myself in based on the time I get to the line. Being able to weasel my way to the front is just me carelessly getting what I want, and not really caring that others waited all day in line. The age-old premise for GA: wait longer, get closer, show up late, be further. Yes, the fact that they found a solution to people weaselling their way to the front is inconvenient to those who show up late and wish they hadn't. No, I don't think it makes it a "social order".

    I have a much easier time believing the VIP tiers are "social order", as you pay to get into them.

    That being said, "social order" in charity is hardly a new idea. You give $10 to a charity, they give you a thank you card. You give $4 million - they take you out for a $1000 meal and let you meet Eddie Vedder, blah blah blah.

    At the end of the day, a charity is entitled to manage its ventures how ever it pleases.

    Total occupancy is 60,000 in the park apparently. To be conservative, let's say 50,000 people will see big-name musicians free (over 2x MSG), and 10,000 people will raise over $2 million to help manage the costs of this event. So what? Most charity events are entirely paid, and not free. And a charity absolutely should have you become a peddle pusher for them: the point of charity events is to gain exposure. This is how they survive - they market themselves.

    And if all of this doesn't convince you that this is fair, take your free tickets, along with your U2's Songs of Innocence, complain about the fact that you received a gift and that it isn't what you wanted for a little bit, and toss it in the trash.
    The pen system isn't fair but will agree to disagree on that. Oh and btw, I hate U2 and wouldn't go see them if you paid me and have VIP3. Just for the fact of you being a smartass, I hope the freebies are junk, so I can throw it in the trash, just to piss you off even more than I already have :). Hell I even record me throwing my freebies into the trash, lol.

    Let me ask you this, would you be this defensive of the pen system if The Grateful Dead did the same thing for GA at their 5 fare thee well shows or would you say hey that's unfair?
    I have VIP 2 and I'm not too concerned about the freebies either. That being said, I had no problem with the pen system several years ago at the Black Keys/Foo Fighters/Neil Young show I attended!

    And I'm not pissed off, just disagree with you. :)

    If the Grateful Dead did the same thing, I'd say it's the prerogative of the promoters (just as it is here), and if I wasn't game for that, I wouldn't have applied for floor tickets. No big deal!

    Sorry that the people at the back of the queue can no longer easily slink to the front of a venue without waiting, but "it isn't fair" isn't an argument, it's a statement.
    Ahh ok sorry for the misunderstanding, all good dude.

    Yes I agree it's a great way to stop people from crashing the front, but what about the people who have work or whatnot and show up late and wanna be near their friends? They shouldn't suffer because of idiots. I guess the point is some of us aren't used to a pen system for a festival and really don't understand why they are doing it this way. I guess people like me and others have to realize not every festival is gonna be like a utopian society for a day where people just hang out and chill and smoke pot or whatever if they want to or have some liquor. Sucks that this festival isn't like that, but it is what it is
    Ah, the final stage of the grieving process: Acceptance. Good for you!

    Kidding of course....There really is no ulterior motive to the pens other managing the crowd. Is what it is.
  • Sprunkn7Sprunkn7 Posts: 5,275
    My take: If I go to a GA show, I'm entitled to the spot I find myself in based on the time I get to the line. Being able to weasel my way to the front is just me carelessly getting what I want, and not really caring that others waited all day in line. The age-old premise for GA: wait longer, get closer, show up late, be further. Yes, the fact that they found a solution to people weaselling their way to the front is inconvenient to those who show up late and wish they hadn't. No, I don't think it makes it a "social order".

    I agree 100% with this statement. The pens used to make me feel caged but I realize it's a great safety feature. I actually like it b/c as mentioned if you get there early you get a better spot. You do the time to wait so why should someone be able to come push their way in front of you. We have a pretty good size posse and are not "close" but once the pen gets closed down you have much less of a chance people will come into your space. By that time everyone has settled in for the day and its a nice relaxed situation.
    Would I like to see it at all other festivals or in fields where the numbers are 50 tho plus...no, not really. But it's the same reason they don't sell alcohol, to have some control and safety for a huge ass crowd for a long period of time.
    Thank you fellow 10 clubber for saving my ass....again!!!
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 10,387
    Sprunkn7 said:

    My take: If I go to a GA show, I'm entitled to the spot I find myself in based on the time I get to the line. Being able to weasel my way to the front is just me carelessly getting what I want, and not really caring that others waited all day in line. The age-old premise for GA: wait longer, get closer, show up late, be further. Yes, the fact that they found a solution to people weaselling their way to the front is inconvenient to those who show up late and wish they hadn't. No, I don't think it makes it a "social order".

    I agree 100% with this statement. The pens used to make me feel caged but I realize it's a great safety feature. I actually like it b/c as mentioned if you get there early you get a better spot. You do the time to wait so why should someone be able to come push their way in front of you. We have a pretty good size posse and are not "close" but once the pen gets closed down you have much less of a chance people will come into your space. By that time everyone has settled in for the day and its a nice relaxed situation.
    Would I like to see it at all other festivals or in fields where the numbers are 50 tho plus...no, not really. But it's the same reason they don't sell alcohol, to have some control and safety for a huge ass crowd for a long period of time.

    +1
  • SPEEDY MCCREADYSPEEDY MCCREADY Posts: 24,788

    on2legs said:

    Anybody else thinks it's weird that the whole point of Global Citizen is to break down economic barriers, end poverty, and give people equal access to food, medicine, and education but they segregate people into pens at these shows and make more amenities available to those who have more money?

    I'm not knocking them.... I think it's a great organization, but the whole premise seems weird in light of their goals.

    Spot on, I for one am sick of absurdly rich people offering 2 hours of their time, asking the average Joe, $$, to save the world. I know they do a lot, even donate their own money, raise awareness, etc. but % wise, what people spend to attend these events, is pocket change to the artists.

    I hate to be negative, but it's getting old.
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEwQFjAFahUKEwiI2eeFsNvGAhWSfpIKHVZ3AaM&url=http://www.showbiz411.com/2015/03/09/ego-show-global-citizen-spent-7-million-on-2013-all-star-rock-concert-gave-700k-in-charitable-grants&ei=i2WlVcjnNpL9yQTW7oWYCg&usg=AFQjCNEbHcSf684upg0t11cP5jw0TT3xGQ&bvm=bv.97653015,d.aWw
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 20,827

    on2legs said:

    Anybody else thinks it's weird that the whole point of Global Citizen is to break down economic barriers, end poverty, and give people equal access to food, medicine, and education but they segregate people into pens at these shows and make more amenities available to those who have more money?

    I'm not knocking them.... I think it's a great organization, but the whole premise seems weird in light of their goals.

    Spot on, I for one am sick of absurdly rich people offering 2 hours of their time, asking the average Joe, $$, to save the world. I know they do a lot, even donate their own money, raise awareness, etc. but % wise, what people spend to attend these events, is pocket change to the artists.

    I hate to be negative, but it's getting old.
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEwQFjAFahUKEwiI2eeFsNvGAhWSfpIKHVZ3AaM&url=http://www.showbiz411.com/2015/03/09/ego-show-global-citizen-spent-7-million-on-2013-all-star-rock-concert-gave-700k-in-charitable-grants&ei=i2WlVcjnNpL9yQTW7oWYCg&usg=AFQjCNEbHcSf684upg0t11cP5jw0TT3xGQ&bvm=bv.97653015,d.aWw
    Donate to the Red Cross instead? Right, because that organization has never totally misappropriated funds.

    I don't know, after the Red Cross scandals (and others) and the bad taste they left in a generation's mouth, raising "awareness" and actually volunteering one's time might just feel safer -- albeit cheaper -- than donating money to a charity.

    I've got two little ones and don't really have time to even take a dump anymore, so I'm more inclined to write a check (usually while taking a dump) to causes I used to support with volunteer work and hope for the best these days. But I can see why others would be more comfortable going the Global Citizen route. Plus, they get rewarded -- millennials need their rewards, you know? mommy and daddy conditioned them as such -- with drawings for concert tickets and this huge festival deal.

    Anyway, Speedy, let's get back on topic over a few drinks in Central Park on Sept. 26, shall we?
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ON Posts: 8,929
    edited July 2015

    on2legs said:

    Anybody else thinks it's weird that the whole point of Global Citizen is to break down economic barriers, end poverty, and give people equal access to food, medicine, and education but they segregate people into pens at these shows and make more amenities available to those who have more money?

    I'm not knocking them.... I think it's a great organization, but the whole premise seems weird in light of their goals.

    Spot on, I for one am sick of absurdly rich people offering 2 hours of their time, asking the average Joe, $$, to save the world. I know they do a lot, even donate their own money, raise awareness, etc. but % wise, what people spend to attend these events, is pocket change to the artists.

    I hate to be negative, but it's getting old.
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEwQFjAFahUKEwiI2eeFsNvGAhWSfpIKHVZ3AaM&url=http://www.showbiz411.com/2015/03/09/ego-show-global-citizen-spent-7-million-on-2013-all-star-rock-concert-gave-700k-in-charitable-grants&ei=i2WlVcjnNpL9yQTW7oWYCg&usg=AFQjCNEbHcSf684upg0t11cP5jw0TT3xGQ&bvm=bv.97653015,d.aWw
    It's called "Global Citizen". Their goal is not to raise funds, but to encourage being an active global citizen, and to be aware of the struggles in the world today (and to hope that this awareness will lead to giving to good causes on your own, based on education and research). A much better metric would be their cost per impression, not their funds raised. Based on the high presence of the event, and the fact that each audience member of the show is mandated to be a marketing assistant for them in order to attend, I'd guess their cost per impression has to be quite low. Not to mention that, compared to other things that are measured (costs per impressions for banner ads, physical billboards, YouTube or TV ads), I'd surmise that Global Citizen impressions have higher engagement rates, since people actually do want to see Pearl Jam/Beyonce/Ed Sheeran/Coldplay - but most couldn't give two shits about the new Coca-Cola ad.
    Post edited by benjs on
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • SPEEDY MCCREADYSPEEDY MCCREADY Posts: 24,788
    dankind said:

    on2legs said:

    Anybody else thinks it's weird that the whole point of Global Citizen is to break down economic barriers, end poverty, and give people equal access to food, medicine, and education but they segregate people into pens at these shows and make more amenities available to those who have more money?

    I'm not knocking them.... I think it's a great organization, but the whole premise seems weird in light of their goals.

    Spot on, I for one am sick of absurdly rich people offering 2 hours of their time, asking the average Joe, $$, to save the world. I know they do a lot, even donate their own money, raise awareness, etc. but % wise, what people spend to attend these events, is pocket change to the artists.

    I hate to be negative, but it's getting old.
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEwQFjAFahUKEwiI2eeFsNvGAhWSfpIKHVZ3AaM&url=http://www.showbiz411.com/2015/03/09/ego-show-global-citizen-spent-7-million-on-2013-all-star-rock-concert-gave-700k-in-charitable-grants&ei=i2WlVcjnNpL9yQTW7oWYCg&usg=AFQjCNEbHcSf684upg0t11cP5jw0TT3xGQ&bvm=bv.97653015,d.aWw
    Donate to the Red Cross instead? Right, because that organization has never totally misappropriated funds.

    I don't know, after the Red Cross scandals (and others) and the bad taste they left in a generation's mouth, raising "awareness" and actually volunteering one's time might just feel safer -- albeit cheaper -- than donating money to a charity.

    I've got two little ones and don't really have time to even take a dump anymore, so I'm more inclined to write a check (usually while taking a dump) to causes I used to support with volunteer work and hope for the best these days. But I can see why others would be more comfortable going the Global Citizen route. Plus, they get rewarded -- millennials need their rewards, you know? mommy and daddy conditioned them as such -- with drawings for concert tickets and this huge festival deal.

    Anyway, Speedy, let's get back on topic over a few drinks in Central Park on Sept. 26, shall we?
    Cant do it.
    Guess I will have to wait and see what 2016 brings.
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
  • nycratsnycrats Posts: 1,348

    on2legs said:

    Anybody else thinks it's weird that the whole point of Global Citizen is to break down economic barriers, end poverty, and give people equal access to food, medicine, and education but they segregate people into pens at these shows and make more amenities available to those who have more money?

    I'm not knocking them.... I think it's a great organization, but the whole premise seems weird in light of their goals.

    Spot on, I for one am sick of absurdly rich people offering 2 hours of their time, asking the average Joe, $$, to save the world. I know they do a lot, even donate their own money, raise awareness, etc. but % wise, what people spend to attend these events, is pocket change to the artists.

    I hate to be negative, but it's getting old.
    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEwQFjAFahUKEwiI2eeFsNvGAhWSfpIKHVZ3AaM&url=http://www.showbiz411.com/2015/03/09/ego-show-global-citizen-spent-7-million-on-2013-all-star-rock-concert-gave-700k-in-charitable-grants&ei=i2WlVcjnNpL9yQTW7oWYCg&usg=AFQjCNEbHcSf684upg0t11cP5jw0TT3xGQ&bvm=bv.97653015,d.aWw
    7 million dollars to put this on, not including the rigging and salaries of the workers. does that 7 million mean that the artists are getting paid?

    '98: Camden 1 '00: JB2 '03: MSG1 '04: Boston 1 '05: AC1
    '06: Irving Plaza, East Rutherford 1 & 2 '07: Lolla '08: Camden 2, MSG2, Beacon
    '09 :Philly 1 & 2 '10: Buffalo, Newark, MSG1, MSG2
    '11: PJ20 1 & 2 '12: Missoula '13: Wrigley, BK2, Philly 1 & 2, Hartford
    '14: Ams 1 & 2, Cincy, St Louis, Detroit, Moline '15: Central Park
    '16 Philly 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Toronto 1 & 2, Fenway 1, Wrigley 1
    '17 Brooklyn hall of fame ‘18 Fenway 1
  • fugawzifugawzi Posts: 871
    Great thing is that NYC decriminalized possession of small amounts of weed, and the show is outside. Weed won't be for sale in ANY sections, so just BYOW, avoid the shitty overpriced alcohol at the show anyway, and go have drinks and dinner AFTER the show in one of the many bar/restaurants in Manhattan that will be open late. Where's the after-show gathering btw...?
    West Palm 2000 I & II/West Palm '03/Tampa '03/Kissimmee '04/Vic Theater '07/West Palm '08/Tampa '08/NYC MSG I & II '08/Philly Spectrum III & IV '09/Cleveland '10/Bristow '10/PJ20 I & II 2011/Pensacola '12/Pittsburgh '13/Denver '14
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 20,827
    fugawzi said:

    Where's the after-show gathering btw...?

    BB's apartment.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • wall232wall232 New York Posts: 1,346
    fugawzi said:

    Great thing is that NYC decriminalized possession of small amounts of weed, and the show is outside. Weed won't be for sale in ANY sections, so just BYOW, avoid the shitty overpriced alcohol at the show anyway, and go have drinks and dinner AFTER the show in one of the many bar/restaurants in Manhattan that will be open late. Where's the after-show gathering btw...?

    It's been decriminalized but you will get thrown out if caught and possibly a ticket, bring edibles and you'll be fine.
    NYPJ
  • fugawzifugawzi Posts: 871
    wall232 said:

    fugawzi said:

    Great thing is that NYC decriminalized possession of small amounts of weed, and the show is outside. Weed won't be for sale in ANY sections, so just BYOW, avoid the shitty overpriced alcohol at the show anyway, and go have drinks and dinner AFTER the show in one of the many bar/restaurants in Manhattan that will be open late. Where's the after-show gathering btw...?

    It's been decriminalized but you will get thrown out if caught and possibly a ticket, bring edibles and you'll be fine.
    I doubt you'll be "thrown out" of the show. They'd be throwing a lot of people out if that was the case. Most likely you'll be asked to put it out or dispose of it. Good call on the edibles though, if those work on you that's a great option.
    West Palm 2000 I & II/West Palm '03/Tampa '03/Kissimmee '04/Vic Theater '07/West Palm '08/Tampa '08/NYC MSG I & II '08/Philly Spectrum III & IV '09/Cleveland '10/Bristow '10/PJ20 I & II 2011/Pensacola '12/Pittsburgh '13/Denver '14
  • fugawzifugawzi Posts: 871
    dankind said:

    fugawzi said:

    Where's the after-show gathering btw...?

    BB's apartment.
    Bill Belichik?
    West Palm 2000 I & II/West Palm '03/Tampa '03/Kissimmee '04/Vic Theater '07/West Palm '08/Tampa '08/NYC MSG I & II '08/Philly Spectrum III & IV '09/Cleveland '10/Bristow '10/PJ20 I & II 2011/Pensacola '12/Pittsburgh '13/Denver '14
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