Your question and your premise are both twisted. Trayvon Martin was a kid walking home who was hunted down by a douchebag. I don't know whether he was a thug in his life before that day or not, but nothing that happened that day indicates that he was. That some referred to him as one doesn't make the reference correct.
Meanwhile, every single person who rioted in Baltimore was a thug. Not protested, rioted. Looted. Burned. That is thug behavior. No way around it. I'm sure many who participated returned to their lives the next day, maybe to never commit such acts again. That doesn't change the fact that they were thugs the night before. No matter how hard we try to stigmatize people for using that word it does not change that fact.
The bikers in Texas also exhibited thug behavior. Feel free to refer to them that way. But their actions were not the same as Baltimore, and there was no similar incident such as Ferguson to point back to in recent months. Biker violence is a problem, but it is its own problem. And it comes with its own terminology.
The answer to your question is that none of these things are the same. Which was my point in the text you bolded. Stop pretending that race is the sole or even primary issue in all things and the discussions of the topic will become easier.
This only strengthens my point. The fact that thug behavior was not being exhibited by Trayvon, yet the term was used, while thug behavior by bikers is not labeled as such...it's more than a little suspicious that the link is race. What is your motive in such vehement denial of race issues?
My motive for such vehement denial of race issues? Obviously I'm a racist, right? Nah, that's of course not what you meant. I harbor no vehement denial of race issues. I deny that thug is the new n-word (because it isn't) and that we all harbor an inherent racial bias (because we don't). If that opens me up to being painted by you with the "pink brush" of racism, so be it.
And the Trayvon case doesn't strengthen your point, because how many of these people describing him as a thug would also describe the incident in the way I did? More than likely these people would have Trayvon as the instigator and Zimmerman fighting for his life. When we disagree about what happened that day, we also disagree about who the players were. One man's thug is another man's victim. Which is to say nothing of the fact that the Trayvon Martin case resembles Twin Peaks not at all.
If you seriously want to discuss racial issues, don't fight so hard to create new eggshell terms for people to tip-toe around. Don't label those that disagree with you. That doesn't encourage an open dialogue. That's why I so vehemently push back against the thug argument. It serves only to silence some people and label others. It doesn't bring anybody closer together on race.
Great point. Guns, organized crime, gang violence, potential police overreaction...but we'll worry about whether a single word was used uniformly enough.
Again, I didn’t inject race into this. My OP didn’t mention race at all. That others injected race into the discussion and made it about race is telling. I just asked how long it would take for the term “thug” to be used in reference to the bikers. So far, I’ve read that the term “thug” is not racial in nature, that the topic isn’t worth discussing, bikers are inherently thought of as “thugs” by the majority of people who think about bikers, hence the term “thug” not being needed or used to describe them, that I’m keeping score and/or think other posters are racists and that this discussion, as intended by my original post, is about race. So which is it? Is the use of the term “thug” about race or not?
How about the people arrested and being held? Here is some information of some of those being held in Waco from biker blog writer Amy White." Ester Weaver was arrested for attending a Coc meeting in Waco,Tx. where a shooting occurred.... along with her husband and nearly two hundred other people. When Ester is sought out on the internet, the only club that can be found that she has any affiliation with herself is the Queens of Sheba (social club) M/C. This is a very interesting find. See,the Queens of Sheba? They are in fact acquainted with a secret fraternity of men who have meetings once a month all over America and shy away from media coverage... They are called the Masons. The Queens of Sheba are an order of The Eastern Star...pillars of their community. How did one of these women possibly get arrested for doing nothing more than riding her motorcycle to a meeting?" It goes on to state who the Queens of Sheba are and the huge contribution they are to their communities and charities . Ester and her husband are currently being held in Waco jail on false charges and a million dollar bond. From another blog- Several members of the Distorted MC. A mom and pop motorcycle club that are family orientated. The distorted members were not "by two accounts" in the immediate vicinity of the altercation or shooting when they heard shots fired. They heard from someone they know yell get down. A (I will not name member) saw a friend from the Line Riders "go down". "The cops came in like swat with AK -47's and made them lay face down on the floor for several hours. The last the club member's significant other text recieved was that they were going to be transported to the convention center and questioned. The next morning on the news it was heard that all members were arrested. Over half of the members including two women of the Distorted MC are still being held and have lost their jobs. Yes, there are others that are entangled in this mess just for merely attending a political meeting. Not everybody being held and arrested and been has been widely reported by law enforcement and the media are gang clubs.
Again, I didn’t inject race into this. My OP didn’t mention race at all. That others injected race into the discussion and made it about race is telling. I just asked how long it would take for the term “thug” to be used in reference to the bikers. So far, I’ve read that the term “thug” is not racial in nature, that the topic isn’t worth discussing, bikers are inherently thought of as “thugs” by the majority of people who think about bikers, hence the term “thug” not being needed or used to describe them, that I’m keeping score and/or think other posters are racists and that this discussion, as intended by my original post, is about race. So which is it? Is the use of the term “thug” about race or not?
And we’re 7 pages deep.
Good Gawd.
Are you serious? You bait people into the MT's time tested argument of whether or not 'thug' is the racist term of the era... and then you throw your hands up in the air saying this wasn't your intention at all?
And what if that was my intention? Does it make it any less valid? More or less worthy of discussion? Should it have been in the "rejected threads" thread? I've read folks on here say that the term "thug" has no racial connotation at all and I've read others argue the opposite. But thanks for knowing what my intentions were by my original post. Am I keeping score? And what if I am? Again, I never said "thug" was the racist term of the era. Stop putting words in my mouth. Why do you think the bikers weren't referred to as "thugs?" Is it because you automatically think of bikers as "thugs" when you think of them or hear the word like the majority of people do as Jimmy V claimed?
And what if that was my intention? Does it make it any less valid? More or less worthy of discussion? Should it have been in the "rejected threads" thread? I've read folks on here say that the term "thug" has no racial connotation at all and I've read others argue the opposite. But thanks for knowing what my intentions were by my original post. Am I keeping score? And what if I am? Again, I never said "thug" was the racist term of the era. Stop putting words in my mouth. Why do you think the bikers weren't referred to as "thugs?" Is it because you automatically think of bikers as "thugs" when you think of them or hear the word like the majority of people do as Jimmy V claimed?
If it was your intention- which it obviously was... nobody's stupid here- it's not a big deal. Why be coy about it?
I love how people project what they want to read onto me. I didn't post my original post thinking a) people are dumb, b) I'll be coy about this, c) I'm posting the question to bait AMT readers into a debate about race or d) to make "thug" the new racist term of the era.
That this devolved into a conversation about race isn't surprising, obviously. I simply made an observation and started a thread. After doing so, fired up the Google machine and found that other, media types, pondered the same thing which lead to a conversation. Which is what I thought AMT was all about. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Does every thread that's started have to have a disclaimer now that speaks to the OPs intent of why they started it? Is there a hidden agenda somewhere behind all those thread titles? Jeesh.
Add "thinking people are stupid" to the list of things I'm accused of by having started this thread.
I love how people project what they want to read onto me. I didn't post my original post thinking a) people are dumb, b) I'll be coy about this, c) I'm posting the question to bait AMT readers into a debate about race or d) to make "thug" the new racist term of the era.
That this devolved into a conversation about race isn't surprising, obviously. I simply made an observation and started a thread. After doing so, fired up the Google machine and found that other, media types, pondered the same thing which lead to a conversation. Which is what I thought AMT was all about. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Does every thread that's started have to have a disclaimer now that speaks to the OPs intent of why they started it? Is there a hidden agenda somewhere behind all those thread titles? Jeesh.
Add "thinking people are stupid" to the list of things I'm accused of by having started this thread.
Okay. You have clarified.
You started this thread because you were genuinely pondering when the media was going to start dropping the 'TH' word when referring to the motorcycle gang members.
what happened with that case ???? all the sudden nothing, where these men released from jail and the whole thing swept under the carpet ?
Godfather.
Still going on. There are a few bikers suing the city and the police department. They weren't all biker thugs that got arrested. Some of them were just parts of little clubs hanging out with friends. It's really a screwed up mess the way it was handled, and the city will probably be bankrupted by the time it's over.
Even the Grand Jury that was just formed has controversy surrounding it. Especially since the idiot judge appointed a Waco police officer who at least had some slight involvement in the ordeal as foreman. It's gonna get ugly for sure.
Yeah, you had guys that have now lost their jobs, their wives and children are struggling to make ends meet. They are forever associated with something they had nothing to do with, and the way the police handled it just completely destroyed their lives.
This was not some event where the Cossacks called up the Bandidos and said..."hey let's have an epic gunbattle in the parking lot of Twin Peaks on Sunday". This was a day when bikers from all over Central Texas rallied. Those two groups happen to not get along at all and when police heard that members from each group were going to be there, they told the restaurant not to have the event. Seriously though...who is going to have the balls to tell a group of bikers to get the hell out? I can promise you it's not some manger of a Twin Peaks. Anyway, it erupted after words were exchanged. Then you have people that have no affiliation with either of those groups getting rounded up and thrown in jail simply because they were bikers at the wrong place at the wrong time.
One guy that's still in jail is one of the men that was herding people into the walk-in cooler to keep them safe and having people get down, and moving people out of harms way.
Another guy showed up, pulled into the parking lot just as the shooting started, turned his ass around, and was stopped by cops. He's still in jail also I believe.
So, whatever happened to the bunch of white terrorists who unloaded on a peaceful Sunday afternoon? Any three strikes your out? Any attempted murder charges that stuck? Or did their leather get them off? I'm just wondering because I haven't heard squat since. Must be the new justice department.
Comments
And the Trayvon case doesn't strengthen your point, because how many of these people describing him as a thug would also describe the incident in the way I did? More than likely these people would have Trayvon as the instigator and Zimmerman fighting for his life. When we disagree about what happened that day, we also disagree about who the players were. One man's thug is another man's victim. Which is to say nothing of the fact that the Trayvon Martin case resembles Twin Peaks not at all.
If you seriously want to discuss racial issues, don't fight so hard to create new eggshell terms for people to tip-toe around. Don't label those that disagree with you. That doesn't encourage an open dialogue. That's why I so vehemently push back against the thug argument. It serves only to silence some people and label others. It doesn't bring anybody closer together on race.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
And we’re 7 pages deep.
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From another blog- Several members of the Distorted MC. A mom and pop motorcycle club that are family orientated.
The distorted members were not "by two accounts" in the immediate vicinity of the altercation or shooting when they heard shots fired. They heard from someone they know yell get down. A (I will not name member) saw a friend from the Line Riders "go down". "The cops came in like swat with AK -47's and made them lay face down on the floor for several hours. The last the club member's significant other text recieved was that they were going to be transported to the convention center and questioned. The next morning on the news it was heard that all members were arrested. Over half of the members including two women of the Distorted MC are still being held and have lost their jobs. Yes, there are others that are entangled in this mess just for merely attending a political meeting.
Not everybody being held and arrested and been has been widely reported by law enforcement and the media are gang clubs.
Are you serious? You bait people into the MT's time tested argument of whether or not 'thug' is the racist term of the era... and then you throw your hands up in the air saying this wasn't your intention at all?
No. I'm pretty sure it was. Come on now.
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That this devolved into a conversation about race isn't surprising, obviously. I simply made an observation and started a thread. After doing so, fired up the Google machine and found that other, media types, pondered the same thing which lead to a conversation. Which is what I thought AMT was all about. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Does every thread that's started have to have a disclaimer now that speaks to the OPs intent of why they started it? Is there a hidden agenda somewhere behind all those thread titles? Jeesh.
Add "thinking people are stupid" to the list of things I'm accused of by having started this thread.
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You started this thread because you were genuinely pondering when the media was going to start dropping the 'TH' word when referring to the motorcycle gang members.
Good question. I wonder too?
Godfather.
Even the Grand Jury that was just formed has controversy surrounding it. Especially since the idiot judge appointed a Waco police officer who at least had some slight involvement in the ordeal as foreman. It's gonna get ugly for sure.
Godfather.
This was not some event where the Cossacks called up the Bandidos and said..."hey let's have an epic gunbattle in the parking lot of Twin Peaks on Sunday". This was a day when bikers from all over Central Texas rallied. Those two groups happen to not get along at all and when police heard that members from each group were going to be there, they told the restaurant not to have the event. Seriously though...who is going to have the balls to tell a group of bikers to get the hell out? I can promise you it's not some manger of a Twin Peaks. Anyway, it erupted after words were exchanged. Then you have people that have no affiliation with either of those groups getting rounded up and thrown in jail simply because they were bikers at the wrong place at the wrong time.
One guy that's still in jail is one of the men that was herding people into the walk-in cooler to keep them safe and having people get down, and moving people out of harms way.
Another guy showed up, pulled into the parking lot just as the shooting started, turned his ass around, and was stopped by cops. He's still in jail also I believe.
It's a fucked up mess for sure.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Godfather.
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/15/us/waco-texas-biker-brawl-shootout-anniversary
Godfather.
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https://apple.news/AKU-yZdi1QlqUOeTPGhEnHQ
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