Waco-How Long Before....................

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808

    to put this in perspective....had it been 9 black guys killed in this.....we wouldn't be patiently waiting to see whose bullets they were.........

    actually we are waiting to see who's bullets they were, I'm not saying the club members handled thier dispute the right or wrong way but the police knew about the meeting that was taking place amung the many clubs and positioned themselfs out side and after one club member pulled a gun(during a knife fight) the ATF I believe it was started to fire with automatic weapons, the bodies in the morge are awaiting autopoies for cause of death and bullet I.D, and the one club that was not invited showed up anyway and that's when the problem started I think, but you are right it if was black panther meeting Al Sharpton would be all over the white police officers for hate crimes..even if some of the club members are/were mexican bikers it don't matter to Al unless they're black.

    Godfather.

    I know we are waiting to see whose bullets they were. I think you may have misread my post.

    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • OMGkatwomanOMGkatwoman Posts: 3,230
    edited May 2015
    ^^^ We haven't heard any mention of the ATF firing automatic weapons, on the news report here. If it turns out that any of the 1%-ters cause of death was due to ATF fire, holy hell is gonna break loose worse than what's already brewing. Here's a link to what the Former Hells Angel's President says about this mess.

    http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/clip/11510075/former-minn-hells-angels-leader-notes-parallels-in-waco
    Post edited by OMGkatwoman on
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    That is the basis of your argument, is it not?

    No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    to put this in perspective....had it been 9 black guys killed in this.....we wouldn't be patiently waiting to see whose bullets they were.........

    Great point!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    rgambs said:

    That is the basis of your argument, is it not?

    No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.
    Are white biker gang shootings a national epidemic? Should there be more outrage for this?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808

    rgambs said:

    That is the basis of your argument, is it not?

    No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.
    Are white biker gang shootings a national epidemic? Should there be more outrage for this?
    this is the issue. there really is no basis for comparison. the cultural epidemic is not just the level of crime, it is how it is reacted to by law enforcement.

    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661

    rgambs said:

    That is the basis of your argument, is it not?

    No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.
    Are white biker gang shootings a national epidemic? Should there be more outrage for this?
    this is the issue. there really is no basis for comparison. the cultural epidemic is not just the level of crime, it is how it is reacted to by law enforcement.

    If I'm not mistaken, many of the dead were shot by the police. What am I missing?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    edited May 2015

    rgambs said:

    That is the basis of your argument, is it not?

    No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.
    Are white biker gang shootings a national epidemic? Should there be more outrage for this?
    Take the word "biker" out and re-read your statement... Then think about the fact that 53.3% of gang murders are committed by whites... More than blacks..
    What are you missing?
    The better question is what are you getting?
    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808

    rgambs said:

    That is the basis of your argument, is it not?

    No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.
    Are white biker gang shootings a national epidemic? Should there be more outrage for this?
    this is the issue. there really is no basis for comparison. the cultural epidemic is not just the level of crime, it is how it is reacted to by law enforcement.

    If I'm not mistaken, many of the dead were shot by the police. What am I missing?
    last I read, that was still unknown. source?

    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    That is the basis of your argument, is it not?

    No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.
    Are white biker gang shootings a national epidemic? Should there be more outrage for this?
    Take the word "biker" out and re-read your statement... Then think about the fact that 53.3% of gang murders are committed by whites... More than blacks..
    What are you missing?
    The better question is what are you getting?
    Source? Not that I don't believe you, but it seems high.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,596
    rgambs said:

    to put this in perspective....had it been 9 black guys killed in this.....we wouldn't be patiently waiting to see whose bullets they were.........

    Great point!
    Here's more on the black/white double standard. A little off-topic and I'm not at all in favor of carrying guns around, HOWEVER...:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZW1UIyTVxQ



    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
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  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    rgambs said:

    rgambs said:

    That is the basis of your argument, is it not?

    No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.
    Are white biker gang shootings a national epidemic? Should there be more outrage for this?
    Take the word "biker" out and re-read your statement... Then think about the fact that 53.3% of gang murders are committed by whites... More than blacks..
    What are you missing?
    The better question is what are you getting?
    Source? Not that I don't believe you, but it seems high.
    Department Of Justice
    I have only seen a PDF download, no webpage for the trends... there is a link to it in this article:
    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/7307050

    The link is to the download is in the 53.3% statistic itself.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,121
    Good things:

    Somehow civilians and cops were not hurt

    We aren't protesting that cops went to shooting these idiots.

    These idiots are all being held at $1M bond a piece. That is some pretty serious precedent considering almost 200 arrests.

    And any idiot bikers entering Waco are getting arrested and tossed in the clinker for minimal cause.

    Good.

  • rgambs said:

    to put this in perspective....had it been 9 black guys killed in this.....we wouldn't be patiently waiting to see whose bullets they were.........

    Great point!
    Hugh...

    Can you please clarify exactly what you are implying here?

    Thanks in advance.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,130
    i see texas has responded nicely to this. open carry is going to be easier now...
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,130
    i saw that the biker gangs have called for cooperative targeting of police and officials.

    this is going to be interesting.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808

    rgambs said:

    to put this in perspective....had it been 9 black guys killed in this.....we wouldn't be patiently waiting to see whose bullets they were.........

    Great point!
    Hugh...

    Can you please clarify exactly what you are implying here?

    Thanks in advance.
    I'm implying that if it were black "bikers" shot, and police were on hand during that, the general public would not have waited for the results of who shot whom. Riots would have ensued immediately with everyone assuming the cops were somehow involved. Guaranteed.

    It is a comment on the current state of race relations in the US, not on anything but that.

    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • I thought it was that clear, however I was a little surprised at some responses that are not typically patient for such a line of thinking.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    ^^^ We haven't heard any mention of the ATF firing automatic weapons, on the news report here. If it turns out that any of the 1%-ters cause of death was due to ATF fire, holy hell is gonna break loose worse than what's already brewing. Here's a link to what the Former Hells Angel's President says about this mess.

    http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/clip/11510075/former-minn-hells-angels-leader-notes-parallels-in-waco

    most motorcycle clubs (that I know of) would never go to war with the police and they don't riot and loot business's, the major players have lawyers that are members as well as politically involved members...believe it or not and not to mention large buniness holdings and some of these larger clubs have the support of smaller clubs who would not make a stupid move like retaliation aginst the police,
    I'm not saying it never happenes but these days most clubs try to keep a lower profile or a cleaner image.

    Godfather.


  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    to put this in perspective....had it been 9 black guys killed in this.....we wouldn't be patiently waiting to see whose bullets they were.........

    actually we are waiting to see who's bullets they were, I'm not saying the club members handled thier dispute the right or wrong way but the police knew about the meeting that was taking place amung the many clubs and positioned themselfs out side and after one club member pulled a gun(during a knife fight) the ATF I believe it was started to fire with automatic weapons, the bodies in the morge are awaiting autopoies for cause of death and bullet I.D, and the one club that was not invited showed up anyway and that's when the problem started I think, but you are right it if was black panther meeting Al Sharpton would be all over the white police officers for hate crimes..even if some of the club members are/were mexican bikers it don't matter to Al unless they're black.

    Godfather.

    I know we are waiting to see whose bullets they were. I think you may have misread my post.

    my mistake, sorry about that.

    Godfather.

  • OMGkatwomanOMGkatwoman Posts: 3,230

    ^^^ We haven't heard any mention of the ATF firing automatic weapons, on the news report here. If it turns out that any of the 1%-ters cause of death was due to ATF fire, holy hell is gonna break loose worse than what's already brewing. Here's a link to what the Former Hells Angel's President says about this mess.

    http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/clip/11510075/former-minn-hells-angels-leader-notes-parallels-in-waco

    most motorcycle clubs (that I know of) would never go to war with the police and they don't riot and loot business's, the major players have lawyers that are members as well as politically involved members...believe it or not and not to mention large buniness holdings and some of these larger clubs have the support of smaller clubs who would not make a stupid move like retaliation aginst the police,
    I'm not saying it never happenes but these days most clubs try to keep a lower profile or a cleaner image.

    Godfather.


    I'm not implying that any of the clubs are stupid enough to go to war against the cops, I'm referring to whoever started the domino effect that will most likely end very badly. Like Pat ( yeah, I know him) said in the tape there will be most likely some sort of retaliation and that's the holy hell I was referring too. I am perfectly aware of lawyers, doctors, political connections within the clubs etc... as well as the many charity runs that some clubs organize. I know that they don't riot and loot businesses, and they prefer to keep a low profile. My former father in law ( who has since passed from brain cancer) was a patch holder and president of a club and when talking to my ex over dinner we were discussing what happened in Waco and what is real and what is perceived.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    well it seems that all dead were shot by police and most were killed with head and trunk shots(sounds like sniper fire to me) one man took 2 shots to the chest, this is an attack on motorcycle clubs across the nation in my opinion,we'll have to watch this and see how it plays out in the media.

    Godfather.
  • OMGkatwomanOMGkatwoman Posts: 3,230
    edited May 2015

    well it seems that all dead were shot by police and most were killed with head and trunk shots(sounds like sniper fire to me) one man took 2 shots to the chest, this is an attack on motorcycle clubs across the nation in my opinion,we'll have to watch this and see how it plays out in the media.

    Godfather.


    I'm sure you're not the only one that has that opinion. We did find it odd that when the fight spilled out on the patio that they would fire at the police unless fired upon first.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Jason P said:

    Good things:

    Somehow civilians and cops were not hurt

    We aren't protesting that cops went to shooting these idiots.

    These idiots are all being held at $1M bond a piece. That is some pretty serious precedent considering almost 200 arrests.

    And any idiot bikers entering Waco are getting arrested and tossed in the clinker for minimal cause.

    Good.

    Jason, what's your point that no one is protesting cops shooting?
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,482
    Armed white motorcycle thugs popping rounds > unarmed black men, some fleeing. Unbelievable that you have sympathy for one but not the other.
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  • callencallen Posts: 6,388

    rgambs said:

    to put this in perspective....had it been 9 black guys killed in this.....we wouldn't be patiently waiting to see whose bullets they were.........

    Great point!
    Hugh...

    Can you please clarify exactly what you are implying here?

    Thanks in advance.
    I'm implying that if it were black "bikers" shot, and police were on hand during that, the general public would not have waited for the results of who shot whom. Riots would have ensued immediately with everyone assuming the cops were somehow involved. Guaranteed.

    It is a comment on the current state of race relations in the US, not on anything but that.

    Disagree.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    Armed white motorcycle thugs popping rounds > unarmed black men, some fleeing. Unbelievable that you have sympathy for one but not the other.

    would you feel better if the "white motorcycle clubs" rioted in the streets, burned down the town and looted the stores ? btw look at the list of the dead and wounded plus the arrested members, you will see not all bikers are white.

    Godfather.

  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,482

    Armed white motorcycle thugs popping rounds > unarmed black men, some fleeing. Unbelievable that you have sympathy for one but not the other.

    would you feel better if the "white motorcycle clubs" rioted in the streets, burned down the town and looted the stores ? btw look at the list of the dead and wounded plus the arrested members, you will see not all bikers are white.

    Godfather.

    Motorcycle thugs, white or otherwise, who show up in a strip mall, 200+ strong armed to rumble, who start popping off rounds and stabbing one another in a public place open for business on a fine Sunday morning deserve to be shot by the police as they are/were a threat to public safety. Fleeing unarmed black suspects behind on their child support, or selling single cigs on the streets of NYC or an unarmed black teenager walking home in the rain being followed by an over zealous neighborhood watch volunteer or the 12 year old playing with a BB gun, do not deserve to be shot in the back, strangled or otherwise eliminated. Did you watch the video Mr. Lux posted? The arriving cop just couldn't deal when it was a black kid with an Ar-15 but the white kid? I'll just walk up and talk to him and ask him what he's doing? You still can't see the bias can you Godfather? Sad.

    Do you have a source that backs your claim that all nine deceased members were shot by the cops, some with head and/or two chest shots, probably sniper fire?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    what's sad is that every fucking thing that happens turns into a race issue...(if he was white he would still be alive or if he was black the cops would have killed him) I'm really burnt out on the race bating bullshit.

    Godfather.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    what's sad is that every fucking thing that happens turns into a race issue...(if he was white he would still be alive or if he was black the cops would have killed him) I'm really burnt out on the race bating bullshit.

    Godfather.

    So what? You are burnt out. Who cares? Your feelings don't change the reality of the situation.
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