Berlin - Summer, 1945

JimmyV

I stumbled across this video this morning and was mesmerized. Planned to only give it a quick look but watched through to the end. It shows the destruction in Berlin after the Reich fell. Cleanup is underway but it is very early on. Guns and tanks have been replaced by politics and allied rivalry - the city has already been divided into zones. Really good look at the horrors of war that linger long after the shooting stops.

https://youtu.be/R5i9k7s9X_A

Thirty Bills Unpaid

If you care, there is a great book titled 'In the Garden of Beasts' by Erik Larson (he also wrote 'The Devil in the White City').

It details Berlin as Hitler rose to power from the perspective of a US ambassador.

jeffbr

That is a great book, Thirty. I read it a couple of months ago. It was fascinating and reads like a novel. Definitely recommended.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

jeffbr said:

That is a great book, Thirty. I read it a couple of months ago. It was fascinating and reads like a novel. Definitely recommended.

All the handsome guys have read it!

On a side note and completely random... I have a freaking glass sliver in my foot and I can't locate it outside of feeling it when I walk. Pisses me right off.

rr165892

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

jeffbr said:

That is a great book, Thirty. I read it a couple of months ago. It was fascinating and reads like a novel. Definitely recommended.

All the handsome guys have read it!

On a side note and completely random... I have a freaking glass sliver in my foot and I can't locate it outside of feeling it when I walk. Pisses me right off.

Get some itcathammol- black drawing Suave.It will draw it out in a couple days.All natural and it works

Thirty Bills Unpaid

rr165892 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

jeffbr said:

That is a great book, Thirty. I read it a couple of months ago. It was fascinating and reads like a novel. Definitely recommended.

All the handsome guys have read it!

On a side note and completely random... I have a freaking glass sliver in my foot and I can't locate it outside of feeling it when I walk. Pisses me right off.

Get some itcathammol- black drawing Suave.It will draw it out in a couple days.All natural and it works

Thanks man. In the meantime, I'll keep pawing at my foot trying to catch an edge of it.

Have you read any other Larson books?

jeffbr

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rr165892 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

jeffbr said:

That is a great book, Thirty. I read it a couple of months ago. It was fascinating and reads like a novel. Definitely recommended.

All the handsome guys have read it!

On a side note and completely random... I have a freaking glass sliver in my foot and I can't locate it outside of feeling it when I walk. Pisses me right off.

Get some itcathammol- black drawing Suave.It will draw it out in a couple days.All natural and it works

Thanks man. In the meantime, I'll keep pawing at my foot trying to catch an edge of it.

Have you read any other Larson books?

Not yet, but I have a couple queued up - Isaac's Storm and Dead Wake. I'll have to check out The Devil in the White City, too. He really does bring history alive.

Kat

The faces of the people are haunting from 1945. Here's an updated aerial view of the area for comparison but it's only from 1991.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7WnIzccdoY

g under p

This is so interesting to see Berlin after what was such a vicious war. I'm currently nursing a WWII war veteran, he's 90 and entered the war after a year at Brown University. He was 18-19 and fought 4 days after the U.S. stormed Normandy. He also fought the Battle of the Bulge and alongside Patton and liberated several concentration camps, one that was called.....well it starts with an "R".

Yes he saw the beaches after those ferocious scenes in the movie Saving Private Ryan. I can just imagine the impact that had on him being so young to see that much meyham. He's from Worchester Mass. and he tells me "I fought Haaard, I killed many people with artillery and fighting door to door....it was kill or be killed". The way he says "haard" you can tell he went through some tough stuff, things one never wants to repeat.

He not only caught hell from the Germans but also from his comrades for being Jewish. His sargents would send him out alone in trenches with the possibility he would never return. I'm surprised he survived the war after 2 and half years there and returned home with his sanity to finish Brown University MCL.

Peace

g under p

The magic of computers.... The camp was called Ravensbruck. It was a camp for women. While he was there a woman asked him how old she was? Bob being 19 said, 52.....she then told him she was 18, just a year younger than he was. It just tells a short story on what those women went through in those camps....the ones that is that survived.

I read these words to Bob a couple weeks ago after a family historian told us some stories Bob can't tell us anymore. It's a RUSH song my favorite song by them to date....

RED SECTOR A

All that we can do is just survive
All that we can do to help ourselves is stay alive

Ragged lines of ragged grey
Skeletons, they shuffle away
Shouting guards and smoking guns
Will cut down the unlucky ones

I clutch the wire fence until my fingers bleed
A wound that will not heal
A heart that cannot feel
Hoping that the horror will recede
Hoping that tomorrow we'll all be freed

Sickness to insanity
Prayer to profanity
Days and weeks and months go by
Don't feel the hunger
Too weak to cry

I hear the sound of gunfire at the prison gate
Are the liberators here?
Do I hope or do I fear?
For my father and my brother, it's too late
But I must help my mother stand up straight

Are we the last ones left alive?
Are we the only human beings to survive?



PEACE

mcgruff10

g under p said:

The magic of computers.... The camp was called Ravensbruck. It was a camp for women. While he was there a woman asked him how old she was? Bob being 19 said, 52.....she then told him she was 18, just a year younger than he was. It just tells a short story on what those women went through in those camps....the ones that is that survived.

I read these words to Bob a couple weeks ago after a family historian told us some stories Bob can't tell us anymore. It's a RUSH song my favorite song by them to date....

RED SECTOR A

All that we can do is just survive
All that we can do to help ourselves is stay alive

Ragged lines of ragged grey
Skeletons, they shuffle away
Shouting guards and smoking guns
Will cut down the unlucky ones

I clutch the wire fence until my fingers bleed
A wound that will not heal
A heart that cannot feel
Hoping that the horror will recede
Hoping that tomorrow we'll all be freed

Sickness to insanity
Prayer to profanity
Days and weeks and months go by
Don't feel the hunger
Too weak to cry

I hear the sound of gunfire at the prison gate
Are the liberators here?
Do I hope or do I fear?
For my father and my brother, it's too late
But I must help my mother stand up straight

Are we the last ones left alive?
Are we the only human beings to survive?



PEACE

ravensbruck was liberated by the russians. maybe another camp? find out!

hedonist

g under p said:

The magic of computers.... The camp was called Ravensbruck. It was a camp for women. While he was there a woman asked him how old she was? Bob being 19 said, 52.....she then told him she was 18, just a year younger than he was. It just tells a short story on what those women went through in those camps....the ones that is that survived.

I read these words to Bob a couple weeks ago after a family historian told us some stories Bob can't tell us anymore. It's a RUSH song my favorite song by them to date....

RED SECTOR A

All that we can do is just survive
All that we can do to help ourselves is stay alive

Ragged lines of ragged grey
Skeletons, they shuffle away
Shouting guards and smoking guns
Will cut down the unlucky ones

I clutch the wire fence until my fingers bleed
A wound that will not heal
A heart that cannot feel
Hoping that the horror will recede
Hoping that tomorrow we'll all be freed

Sickness to insanity
Prayer to profanity
Days and weeks and months go by
Don't feel the hunger
Too weak to cry

I hear the sound of gunfire at the prison gate
Are the liberators here?
Do I hope or do I fear?
For my father and my brother, it's too late
But I must help my mother stand up straight

Are we the last ones left alive?
Are we the only human beings to survive?



PEACE

Beautiful lyrics but so fucked at the same time - especially knowing what their parents went through (if you've seen - which I'm sure you have! - Beyond the Lighted Stage).

I'm not too familiar with this song, but in telling my husband about this post in general and yours specifically - yup, he gets it.

g under p

mcgruff10 said:

g under p said:

The magic of computers.... The camp was called Ravensbruck. It was a camp for women. While he was there a woman asked him how old she was? Bob being 19 said, 52.....she then told him she was 18, just a year younger than he was. It just tells a short story on what those women went through in those camps....the ones that is that survived.

I read these words to Bob a couple weeks ago after a family historian told us some stories Bob can't tell us anymore. It's a RUSH song my favorite song by them to date....

RED SECTOR A

All that we can do is just survive
All that we can do to help ourselves is stay alive

Ragged lines of ragged grey
Skeletons, they shuffle away
Shouting guards and smoking guns
Will cut down the unlucky ones

I clutch the wire fence until my fingers bleed
A wound that will not heal
A heart that cannot feel
Hoping that the horror will recede
Hoping that tomorrow we'll all be freed

Sickness to insanity
Prayer to profanity
Days and weeks and months go by
Don't feel the hunger
Too weak to cry

I hear the sound of gunfire at the prison gate
Are the liberators here?
Do I hope or do I fear?
For my father and my brother, it's too late
But I must help my mother stand up straight

Are we the last ones left alive?
Are we the only human beings to survive?



PEACE

ravensbruck was liberated by the russians. maybe another camp? find out!

That maybe so that Russian units liberated the camp however this was the camp name the historian gave us. I wasn't there but it appears Bob was in some way some how, his story is documented in the Museum of Jewish Heritage in NYC.

Peace

mcgruff10

i'm thinking it's gotta be another camp. maybe he met a survivor from ravensbruck. who knows. what's the guys name?

g under p

mcgruff10 said:

i'm thinking it's gotta be another camp. maybe he met a survivor from ravensbruck. who knows. what's the guys name?

Spoke to his wife and son today, they said that Bob was at Ravensbruck and other concentration camps. They said Russian units were probably sent in first then American battalions afterwards. While Russians units were there in the beginning American units weren't far behind to liberate that particular camp.

Peace

g under p

hedonist said:

g under p said:

The magic of computers.... The camp was called Ravensbruck. It was a camp for women. While he was there a woman asked him how old she was? Bob being 19 said, 52.....she then told him she was 18, just a year younger than he was. It just tells a short story on what those women went through in those camps....the ones that is that survived.

I read these words to Bob a couple weeks ago after a family historian told us some stories Bob can't tell us anymore. It's a RUSH song my favorite song by them to date....

RED SECTOR A

All that we can do is just survive
All that we can do to help ourselves is stay alive

Ragged lines of ragged grey
Skeletons, they shuffle away
Shouting guards and smoking guns
Will cut down the unlucky ones

I clutch the wire fence until my fingers bleed
A wound that will not heal
A heart that cannot feel
Hoping that the horror will recede
Hoping that tomorrow we'll all be freed

Sickness to insanity
Prayer to profanity
Days and weeks and months go by
Don't feel the hunger
Too weak to cry

I hear the sound of gunfire at the prison gate
Are the liberators here?
Do I hope or do I fear?
For my father and my brother, it's too late
But I must help my mother stand up straight

Are we the last ones left alive?
Are we the only human beings to survive?



PEACE

Beautiful lyrics but so fucked at the same time - especially knowing what their parents went through (if you've seen - which I'm sure you have! - Beyond the Lighted Stage).

I'm not too familiar with this song, but in telling my husband about this post in general and yours specifically - yup, he gets it.

Yes I've seen and have Beyond The Lighted Stage. The song is from my #1 Rush album
Grace Under Pressure. I'm not sure why the song resonates with from the first time I heard it and back then in 1984 I had no idea what the song was about. Since then I now get it, I'm not Jewish but the song touches me like no other, it has to be the imagery of the song.

Hedonist side note.....one of my favorite moments at one of 49 Rush shows, I had this happen at the 87' Hold Your Fire tour. A pretty blonde sat behind me and when RSA came on WE yelled out with that's my favorite Rush song. Well we started singing the lyrics word for word with our faces inches apart as if we were rap battling. After the song we hive fived and hugged, I'll never forget that moment. It makes me smile every time I think of it.

Peace

mcgruff10

g under p said:

mcgruff10 said:

i'm thinking it's gotta be another camp. maybe he met a survivor from ravensbruck. who knows. what's the guys name?

Spoke to his wife and son today, they said that Bob was at Ravensbruck and other concentration camps. They said Russian units were probably sent in first then American battalions afterwards. While Russians units were there in the beginning American units weren't far behind to liberate that particular camp.

Peace

I'm not doubting your story but ravenbruck was no where near the american lines. it was liberated by the russians at the end of april 1945 and very much in russian territory (about 90 miles north of berlin in what would be east germany). there was no back and forth across the lines by american troops.
bob was probably at buchenwald or dachau. nonetheless, very cool story. sadly no camps that started with R were liberated by american troops; like i said earlier, I'd love to know what Bob really saw.
by the way I've taught the Holocaust /genocide/WW2 for 15 years. Every year i've had holocaust survivors and ww2 veterans come in and speak to my students about their experiences.

hedonist

g under p said:

Yes I've seen and have Beyond The Lighted Stage. The song is from my #1 Rush album
Grace Under Pressure. I'm not sure why the song resonates with from the first time I heard it and back then in 1984 I had no idea what the song was about. Since then I now get it, I'm not Jewish but the song touches me like no other, it has to be the imagery of the song.

Hedonist side note.....one of my favorite moments at one of 49 Rush shows, I had this happen at the 87' Hold Your Fire tour. A pretty blonde sat behind me and when RSA came on WE yelled out with that's my favorite Rush song. Well we started singing the lyrics word for word with our faces inches apart as if we were rap battling. After the song we hive fived and hugged, I'll never forget that moment. It makes me smile every time I think of it.

Peace

Beautiful memory, g. I love those connections at shows!

(and 49 times?! - holy hell)

g under p

mcgruff10 said:

g under p said:

mcgruff10 said:

i'm thinking it's gotta be another camp. maybe he met a survivor from ravensbruck. who knows. what's the guys name?

Spoke to his wife and son today, they said that Bob was at Ravensbruck and other concentration camps. They said Russian units were probably sent in first then American battalions afterwards. While Russians units were there in the beginning American units weren't far behind to liberate that particular camp.

Peace

I'm not doubting your story but ravenbruck was no where near the american lines. it was liberated by the russians at the end of april 1945 and very much in russian territory (about 90 miles north of berlin in what would be east germany). there was no back and forth across the lines by american troops.
bob was probably at buchenwald or dachau. nonetheless, very cool story. sadly no camps that started with R were liberated by american troops; like i said earlier, I'd love to know what Bob really saw.
by the way I've taught the Holocaust /genocide/WW2 for 15 years. Every year i've had holocaust survivors and ww2 veterans come in and speak to my students about their experiences.

I also don't doubt your knowledge of the events of our U.S. war history. I had another client who lived with Alzheimer's tell of his survival from concentration encampment. His story is in the Holocaust Museum in DC. it's very intricate on what he had to do to survive being 7 years old at the time. He survived with his older sister after losing another sibling, mother and father. You know I would love to go back to HM in DC to read his story again, I can understand why he became so sick near the end of his life.

Peace

mcgruff10

The holocaust museum in dc is amazing. STanding in that cattle car was surreal.
Didn't relaize your patient had Alzheimer's. That s so terrible. I always kick my self in the butt for not asking my grandfather more questions about his experiences in ww2 before he passed.

hedonist

mcgruff10 said:

The holocaust museum in dc is amazing. STanding in that cattle car was surreal.
Didn't relaize your patient had Alzheimer's. That s so terrible. I always kick my self in the butt for not asking my grandfather more questions about his experiences in ww2 before he passed.

Wow, they have that there? I can't begin to imagine the feeling of seeing one, let alone entering it.

gimmesometruth27

JimmyV said:

I stumbled across this video this morning and was mesmerized. Planned to only give it a quick look but watched through to the end. It shows the destruction in Berlin after the Reich fell. Cleanup is underway but it is very early on. Guns and tanks have been replaced by politics and allied rivalry - the city has already been divided into zones. Really good look at the horrors of war that linger long after the shooting stops.

https://youtu.be/R5i9k7s9X_A

unreal.

it took them decades to rebuild.

mcgruff10

hedonist said:

mcgruff10 said:

The holocaust museum in dc is amazing. STanding in that cattle car was surreal.
Didn't relaize your patient had Alzheimer's. That s so terrible. I always kick my self in the butt for not asking my grandfather more questions about his experiences in ww2 before he passed.

Wow, they have that there? I can't begin to imagine the feeling of seeing one, let alone entering it.

It really was creepy. I can't imagine being crammed in one of those for five or six days let alone an hour.

Bentleyspop

There is also a cattle car that can be seen at Whitwell Middle School in Whitwell, Tennessee.
It was featured in the documentary "Paperclips"
https://youtu.be/ofIHRaim06A

g under p

Happy Victory Day May 9, 1945

I just told Bob that and that he's a hero to have survived WWII.

Peace

hedonist

He's lucky to have you caring for him (not just in the physical sense, either). Did he realize the meaning of the day when you told him?

My husband and I were recently talking about my dad, and he essentially said the same thing as you said to Bob. He told me how honored he was to have known a WWII vet, and to be married to the daughter of one.

So few survivors left, whether those who lived through (no words) or those who helped to liberate them. I hope they, and their stories, are never forgotten.

gimmesometruth27

i watched "the rise and fall of the third reich" last night. unbelievable that the german people essentially handed power to that madman, and even when they knew the war was unwinnable, many of them never turned on hitler. they stayed loyal to the end. and then they were left to pick up the pieces and rebuild their own bombed out cities, living on near starvation rations for another 3 or 4 years.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

gimmesometruth27 said:

i watched "the rise and fall of the third reich" last night. unbelievable that the german people essentially handed power to that madman, and even when they knew the war was unwinnable, many of them never turned on hitler. they stayed loyal to the end. and then they were left to pick up the pieces and rebuild their own bombed out cities, living on near starvation rations for another 3 or 4 years.

The entire scope of the madness wasn't readily apparent at the outset.

By the time many German people realized what the reality had become, it was too late to do anything other than to sink with the ship.

The entire period is shocking, but we have not learned anything from it. Look at Yugoslavia for example: Sarajevo hosts the Olympics in 1984... and within a couple of years, a cruel and brutal civil war breaks out with a horrific genocide that even pitted friends against each other at the center of it.

JOEJOEJOE

My dad (passed-away in 2011) was a survivor. He never talked about his experiences, but one night, on the way home from dinner, he started to dish-out a few facts. It was a very emotional experience, to say the least. I am glad there is this discussion going on here!

mcgruff10

I was teaching the holocaust last year to 8th graders and the day's lesson was about auschwitz, transportation process and zyklon b gas....etc. not the easiest topic to teach let alone when you have a substitute teacher in with you. well i'm talking, answering questions and the substitute teacher (in for my resource room teacher) is just kind of sitting there and i try not to really take notice of her. at the end of the class the lady introduces herself and says I gave a really really good lesson. I thanked her for her compliments; she then proceeded to tell me that both her mom and dad were auschwitz survivors and met in a displaced person camp after the war. I was blown away.

mcgruff10

gimmesometruth27 said:

i watched "the rise and fall of the third reich" last night. unbelievable that the german people essentially handed power to that madman, and even when they knew the war was unwinnable, many of them never turned on hitler. they stayed loyal to the end. and then they were left to pick up the pieces and rebuild their own bombed out cities, living on near starvation rations for another 3 or 4 years.

I saw that last night too, amazing show!