U.S. Soccer Thread

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  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,611
    jeffbr said:
    Here's a great article touching on this money grab by US Soccer, as well as scorching Bruce Arena. I think the author is spot on.

    American Soccer Needs To Burn To The Ground

    "First we learned about an absolutely absurd, moronic, avaricious, unintentionally self-disgracing plan by the money-grubbing shitbrains in charge of soccer in this country. These geniuses are apparently attempting to organize a Tournament of Losers next summer in the U.S. that would host some of the prominent international teams that failed to make the World Cup. Rather than hibernating for a year or so in shame over how colossally the U.S. botched the World Cup qualification process—and rather than undergoing a sober and ruthless accounting of the specific ways the entire soccer system in America failed, and coming up with a strategy for how to fix these flaws—U.S. Soccer and their shady marketing arm Soccer United Marketing thought the best use of their time was to draw even more attention to the most humiliating incident in this country’s history in the sport by dreaming up a risible, though almost certainly profitable, World Crap."

    Oh wow...I didn't know Arena was on TV the other day analyzing the game!  What an arrogant prick.  The fact that he keeps saying that everything is fine with U.S. Soccer is an absolute fucking joke...I don't know if he really means that or if he's just Gulati's puppet at this point.  Holy shit what a fucking disaster.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • jeffbr said:
    Here's a great article touching on this money grab by US Soccer, as well as scorching Bruce Arena. I think the author is spot on.

    American Soccer Needs To Burn To The Ground

    "First we learned about an absolutely absurd, moronic, avaricious, unintentionally self-disgracing plan by the money-grubbing shitbrains in charge of soccer in this country. These geniuses are apparently attempting to organize a Tournament of Losers next summer in the U.S. that would host some of the prominent international teams that failed to make the World Cup. Rather than hibernating for a year or so in shame over how colossally the U.S. botched the World Cup qualification process—and rather than undergoing a sober and ruthless accounting of the specific ways the entire soccer system in America failed, and coming up with a strategy for how to fix these flaws—U.S. Soccer and their shady marketing arm Soccer United Marketing thought the best use of their time was to draw even more attention to the most humiliating incident in this country’s history in the sport by dreaming up a risible, though almost certainly profitable, World Crap."
    Whatever you call it, the games will happen here.  Don't get hung up on what writers are trying to drum up to get clicks.   We are the only ones that hate ourselves.  The rest of the world loves to play here. They have that stupid preseason international club cup where like 30 teams play around the world with 3/4 of them playing in us.  They then declare a winner.  I have no idea how but the point is every club and country comes to the us to grab the money.  Don't be more self hating about this.  There is no doubt friendlies will happen on us soil and some concept like this will be taken but it won't be officially sanctioned.  It will be the Barclays-Qatar-Exxon-Virgin Atlantic World Goblet.  And all the Italians and Chileans and Trinidadians (oh, wait we won't invite them) living in the US will buy tickets which is the exact reason they will hold the meaningless games here.

    as for burn to the ground - how silly.  We missed.  It happens.  Yes, in concacaf we should make it every time.  But don't forget, if we hadnt scored a late, meaningless goal on the last day 4 years ago Mexico would have missed.  We are just not used to losing.  We now have the most creative player the us has ever had who will be in his prime the next 2 world cups.  We were caught between cycles.  He's too young now, Dempsey is too old, and altidore never fulfilled promise.   The old cycle is done, and now we spend 2 years figuring out who's next.  That's how this works.  
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,611
    jeffbr said:
    Here's a great article touching on this money grab by US Soccer, as well as scorching Bruce Arena. I think the author is spot on.

    American Soccer Needs To Burn To The Ground

    "First we learned about an absolutely absurd, moronic, avaricious, unintentionally self-disgracing plan by the money-grubbing shitbrains in charge of soccer in this country. These geniuses are apparently attempting to organize a Tournament of Losers next summer in the U.S. that would host some of the prominent international teams that failed to make the World Cup. Rather than hibernating for a year or so in shame over how colossally the U.S. botched the World Cup qualification process—and rather than undergoing a sober and ruthless accounting of the specific ways the entire soccer system in America failed, and coming up with a strategy for how to fix these flaws—U.S. Soccer and their shady marketing arm Soccer United Marketing thought the best use of their time was to draw even more attention to the most humiliating incident in this country’s history in the sport by dreaming up a risible, though almost certainly profitable, World Crap."
    Whatever you call it, the games will happen here.  Don't get hung up on what writers are trying to drum up to get clicks.   We are the only ones that hate ourselves.  The rest of the world loves to play here. They have that stupid preseason international club cup where like 30 teams play around the world with 3/4 of them playing in us.  They then declare a winner.  I have no idea how but the point is every club and country comes to the us to grab the money.  Don't be more self hating about this.  There is no doubt friendlies will happen on us soil and some concept like this will be taken but it won't be officially sanctioned.  It will be the Barclays-Qatar-Exxon-Virgin Atlantic World Goblet.  And all the Italians and Chileans and Trinidadians (oh, wait we won't invite them) living in the US will buy tickets which is the exact reason they will hold the meaningless games here.

    as for burn to the ground - how silly.  We missed.  It happens.  Yes, in concacaf we should make it every time.  But don't forget, if we hadnt scored a late, meaningless goal on the last day 4 years ago Mexico would have missed.  We are just not used to losing.  We now have the most creative player the us has ever had who will be in his prime the next 2 world cups.  We were caught between cycles.  He's too young now, Dempsey is too old, and altidore never fulfilled promise.   The old cycle is done, and now we spend 2 years figuring out who's next.  That's how this works.  
    So do you think everything is fine in US Soccer and nothing should change??  If it shouldn't be burnt to the ground now, then when should it be? It's just about impossible for a solid team not to qualify from CONCACAF, but the US somehow found a way.  And then you have Arena out there saying everything is fine, nothing to see here!!!  What a joke.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • jeffbr said:
    Here's a great article touching on this money grab by US Soccer, as well as scorching Bruce Arena. I think the author is spot on.

    American Soccer Needs To Burn To The Ground

    "First we learned about an absolutely absurd, moronic, avaricious, unintentionally self-disgracing plan by the money-grubbing shitbrains in charge of soccer in this country. These geniuses are apparently attempting to organize a Tournament of Losers next summer in the U.S. that would host some of the prominent international teams that failed to make the World Cup. Rather than hibernating for a year or so in shame over how colossally the U.S. botched the World Cup qualification process—and rather than undergoing a sober and ruthless accounting of the specific ways the entire soccer system in America failed, and coming up with a strategy for how to fix these flaws—U.S. Soccer and their shady marketing arm Soccer United Marketing thought the best use of their time was to draw even more attention to the most humiliating incident in this country’s history in the sport by dreaming up a risible, though almost certainly profitable, World Crap."
    Whatever you call it, the games will happen here.  Don't get hung up on what writers are trying to drum up to get clicks.   We are the only ones that hate ourselves.  The rest of the world loves to play here. They have that stupid preseason international club cup where like 30 teams play around the world with 3/4 of them playing in us.  They then declare a winner.  I have no idea how but the point is every club and country comes to the us to grab the money.  Don't be more self hating about this.  There is no doubt friendlies will happen on us soil and some concept like this will be taken but it won't be officially sanctioned.  It will be the Barclays-Qatar-Exxon-Virgin Atlantic World Goblet.  And all the Italians and Chileans and Trinidadians (oh, wait we won't invite them) living in the US will buy tickets which is the exact reason they will hold the meaningless games here.

    as for burn to the ground - how silly.  We missed.  It happens.  Yes, in concacaf we should make it every time.  But don't forget, if we hadnt scored a late, meaningless goal on the last day 4 years ago Mexico would have missed.  We are just not used to losing.  We now have the most creative player the us has ever had who will be in his prime the next 2 world cups.  We were caught between cycles.  He's too young now, Dempsey is too old, and altidore never fulfilled promise.   The old cycle is done, and now we spend 2 years figuring out who's next.  That's how this works.  
    So do you think everything is fine in US Soccer and nothing should change??  If it shouldn't be burnt to the ground now, then when should it be? It's just about impossible for a solid team not to qualify from CONCACAF, but the US somehow found a way.  And then you have Arena out there saying everything is fine, nothing to see here!!!  What a joke.
    Absolutely not.    My kids play soccer and the identification process is fd up.    

    We we love to parse what people say.  Just remember that Bruce Arena is the most successful coach in US history.  That last loss is completely embarrassing, but we put ourselves in a huge hole he was trying to dig us out from under.  But that doesn't go to how we build a national team.   

    But burn the whole thing down?  And what would you replace it with?  Until we are ready to spend $100 s of millions identifying and then training players, we are never going to have the best possible team.  So, sure burn the whole thing down and replace it with that.  You willing to pay for that?

    We've had a fairly successful run.  A few knock out stages, a final 8 that could have easily been a final 4.   Let me know how England has done over the last 20 years.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 26,199
    edited November 2017
    jeffbr said:
    Here's a great article touching on this money grab by US Soccer, as well as scorching Bruce Arena. I think the author is spot on.

    American Soccer Needs To Burn To The Ground

    "First we learned about an absolutely absurd, moronic, avaricious, unintentionally self-disgracing plan by the money-grubbing shitbrains in charge of soccer in this country. These geniuses are apparently attempting to organize a Tournament of Losers next summer in the U.S. that would host some of the prominent international teams that failed to make the World Cup. Rather than hibernating for a year or so in shame over how colossally the U.S. botched the World Cup qualification process—and rather than undergoing a sober and ruthless accounting of the specific ways the entire soccer system in America failed, and coming up with a strategy for how to fix these flaws—U.S. Soccer and their shady marketing arm Soccer United Marketing thought the best use of their time was to draw even more attention to the most humiliating incident in this country’s history in the sport by dreaming up a risible, though almost certainly profitable, World Crap."
    Whatever you call it, the games will happen here.  Don't get hung up on what writers are trying to drum up to get clicks.   We are the only ones that hate ourselves.  The rest of the world loves to play here. They have that stupid preseason international club cup where like 30 teams play around the world with 3/4 of them playing in us.  They then declare a winner.  I have no idea how but the point is every club and country comes to the us to grab the money.  Don't be more self hating about this.  There is no doubt friendlies will happen on us soil and some concept like this will be taken but it won't be officially sanctioned.  It will be the Barclays-Qatar-Exxon-Virgin Atlantic World Goblet.  And all the Italians and Chileans and Trinidadians (oh, wait we won't invite them) living in the US will buy tickets which is the exact reason they will hold the meaningless games here.

    as for burn to the ground - how silly.  We missed.  It happens.  Yes, in concacaf we should make it every time.  But don't forget, if we hadnt scored a late, meaningless goal on the last day 4 years ago Mexico would have missed.  We are just not used to losing.  We now have the most creative player the us has ever had who will be in his prime the next 2 world cups.  We were caught between cycles.  He's too young now, Dempsey is too old, and altidore never fulfilled promise.   The old cycle is done, and now we spend 2 years figuring out who's next.  That's how this works.  
    So do you think everything is fine in US Soccer and nothing should change??  If it shouldn't be burnt to the ground now, then when should it be? It's just about impossible for a solid team not to qualify from CONCACAF, but the US somehow found a way.  And then you have Arena out there saying everything is fine, nothing to see here!!!  What a joke.
    Absolutely not.    My kids play soccer and the identification process is fd up.    

    We we love to parse what people say.  Just remember that Bruce Arena is the most successful coach in US history.  That last loss is completely embarrassing, but we put ourselves in a huge hole he was trying to dig us out from under.  But that doesn't go to how we build a national team.   

    But burn the whole thing down?  And what would you replace it with?  Until we are ready to spend $100 s of millions identifying and then training players, we are never going to have the best possible team.  So, sure burn the whole thing down and replace it with that.  You willing to pay for that?

    We've had a fairly successful run.  A few knock out stages, a final 8 that could have easily been a final 4.   Let me know how England has done over the last 20 years.
    It's much much more than the identification process. I don't think that many players are falling through the cracks these days. Keeping players like Odell Beckham is a bigger issue than identifying thee best players.

    The cost of good soccer (coaching) is way too fucking expensive in this country. I was a decent player. Low level D1, recruited. D2 scholarship. Western NY ODP. Empire State games. Select tournaments in Hawaii and Italy/Germany. I played so so permier travel, by no means a snickers/Nike level club. Soccer is so  fucking expensive. It is insane. I don't think it is unrealistic to say that top level soccer for high school kids is in the $10k-$20k range per year with equipment, travel and fees included. And this gets you what? An E licensed coach.

    The sport is too expensive and coaching is a joke. 

    Post edited by Cliffy6745 on
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,611
    jeffbr said:
    Here's a great article touching on this money grab by US Soccer, as well as scorching Bruce Arena. I think the author is spot on.

    American Soccer Needs To Burn To The Ground

    "First we learned about an absolutely absurd, moronic, avaricious, unintentionally self-disgracing plan by the money-grubbing shitbrains in charge of soccer in this country. These geniuses are apparently attempting to organize a Tournament of Losers next summer in the U.S. that would host some of the prominent international teams that failed to make the World Cup. Rather than hibernating for a year or so in shame over how colossally the U.S. botched the World Cup qualification process—and rather than undergoing a sober and ruthless accounting of the specific ways the entire soccer system in America failed, and coming up with a strategy for how to fix these flaws—U.S. Soccer and their shady marketing arm Soccer United Marketing thought the best use of their time was to draw even more attention to the most humiliating incident in this country’s history in the sport by dreaming up a risible, though almost certainly profitable, World Crap."
    Whatever you call it, the games will happen here.  Don't get hung up on what writers are trying to drum up to get clicks.   We are the only ones that hate ourselves.  The rest of the world loves to play here. They have that stupid preseason international club cup where like 30 teams play around the world with 3/4 of them playing in us.  They then declare a winner.  I have no idea how but the point is every club and country comes to the us to grab the money.  Don't be more self hating about this.  There is no doubt friendlies will happen on us soil and some concept like this will be taken but it won't be officially sanctioned.  It will be the Barclays-Qatar-Exxon-Virgin Atlantic World Goblet.  And all the Italians and Chileans and Trinidadians (oh, wait we won't invite them) living in the US will buy tickets which is the exact reason they will hold the meaningless games here.

    as for burn to the ground - how silly.  We missed.  It happens.  Yes, in concacaf we should make it every time.  But don't forget, if we hadnt scored a late, meaningless goal on the last day 4 years ago Mexico would have missed.  We are just not used to losing.  We now have the most creative player the us has ever had who will be in his prime the next 2 world cups.  We were caught between cycles.  He's too young now, Dempsey is too old, and altidore never fulfilled promise.   The old cycle is done, and now we spend 2 years figuring out who's next.  That's how this works.  
    So do you think everything is fine in US Soccer and nothing should change??  If it shouldn't be burnt to the ground now, then when should it be? It's just about impossible for a solid team not to qualify from CONCACAF, but the US somehow found a way.  And then you have Arena out there saying everything is fine, nothing to see here!!!  What a joke.
    Absolutely not.    My kids play soccer and the identification process is fd up.    

    We we love to parse what people say.  Just remember that Bruce Arena is the most successful coach in US history.  That last loss is completely embarrassing, but we put ourselves in a huge hole he was trying to dig us out from under.  But that doesn't go to how we build a national team.   

    But burn the whole thing down?  And what would you replace it with?  Until we are ready to spend $100 s of millions identifying and then training players, we are never going to have the best possible team.  So, sure burn the whole thing down and replace it with that.  You willing to pay for that?

    We've had a fairly successful run.  A few knock out stages, a final 8 that could have easily been a final 4.   Let me know how England has done over the last 20 years.
    When I say burn it down, I mean that there needs to be new leadership and Gulati needs to go.  I'm not saying the whole system as it exists needs to be thrown out, but obviously there needs to be changes because something isn't right.  Like I keep saying, with the talent and resources US Soccer has, it's just about impossible not to qualify out of CONCACAF.  

    Like Cliffy mentioned, the costs associated with playing high level youth soccer are astronomical and obviously not something that every family can afford.  I don't have all the answers, but something needs to change.  

    And just because Arena has had success doesn't mean that he can't be criticized for what happened.  Yes, he came into a bad situation but the fact is that they ended up needing a tie at Trinidad of all places and couldn't come up with 1 goddamn point.  He didn't even bring in Fabian Johnson for the last 2 qualifiers and left their most reliable central defender in Cameron on the bench in the last game.  But he'll just continue to say that everything is fine and nothing needs to change.  Smh.


    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 5,937
    jeffbr said:
    Here's a great article touching on this money grab by US Soccer, as well as scorching Bruce Arena. I think the author is spot on.

    American Soccer Needs To Burn To The Ground

    "First we learned about an absolutely absurd, moronic, avaricious, unintentionally self-disgracing plan by the money-grubbing shitbrains in charge of soccer in this country. These geniuses are apparently attempting to organize a Tournament of Losers next summer in the U.S. that would host some of the prominent international teams that failed to make the World Cup. Rather than hibernating for a year or so in shame over how colossally the U.S. botched the World Cup qualification process—and rather than undergoing a sober and ruthless accounting of the specific ways the entire soccer system in America failed, and coming up with a strategy for how to fix these flaws—U.S. Soccer and their shady marketing arm Soccer United Marketing thought the best use of their time was to draw even more attention to the most humiliating incident in this country’s history in the sport by dreaming up a risible, though almost certainly profitable, World Crap."
    Whatever you call it, the games will happen here.  Don't get hung up on what writers are trying to drum up to get clicks.   We are the only ones that hate ourselves.  The rest of the world loves to play here. They have that stupid preseason international club cup where like 30 teams play around the world with 3/4 of them playing in us.  They then declare a winner.  I have no idea how but the point is every club and country comes to the us to grab the money.  Don't be more self hating about this.  There is no doubt friendlies will happen on us soil and some concept like this will be taken but it won't be officially sanctioned.  It will be the Barclays-Qatar-Exxon-Virgin Atlantic World Goblet.  And all the Italians and Chileans and Trinidadians (oh, wait we won't invite them) living in the US will buy tickets which is the exact reason they will hold the meaningless games here.

    as for burn to the ground - how silly.  We missed.  It happens.  Yes, in concacaf we should make it every time.  But don't forget, if we hadnt scored a late, meaningless goal on the last day 4 years ago Mexico would have missed.  We are just not used to losing.  We now have the most creative player the us has ever had who will be in his prime the next 2 world cups.  We were caught between cycles.  He's too young now, Dempsey is too old, and altidore never fulfilled promise.   The old cycle is done, and now we spend 2 years figuring out who's next.  That's how this works.  
    So do you think everything is fine in US Soccer and nothing should change??  If it shouldn't be burnt to the ground now, then when should it be? It's just about impossible for a solid team not to qualify from CONCACAF, but the US somehow found a way.  And then you have Arena out there saying everything is fine, nothing to see here!!!  What a joke.
    Absolutely not.    My kids play soccer and the identification process is fd up.    

    We we love to parse what people say.  Just remember that Bruce Arena is the most successful coach in US history.  That last loss is completely embarrassing, but we put ourselves in a huge hole he was trying to dig us out from under.  But that doesn't go to how we build a national team.   

    But burn the whole thing down?  And what would you replace it with?  Until we are ready to spend $100 s of millions identifying and then training players, we are never going to have the best possible team.  So, sure burn the whole thing down and replace it with that.  You willing to pay for that?

    We've had a fairly successful run.  A few knock out stages, a final 8 that could have easily been a final 4.   Let me know how England has done over the last 20 years.
    When I say burn it down, I mean that there needs to be new leadership and Gulati needs to go.  I'm not saying the whole system as it exists needs to be thrown out, but obviously there needs to be changes because something isn't right.  Like I keep saying, with the talent and resources US Soccer has, it's just about impossible not to qualify out of CONCACAF.  

    Like Cliffy mentioned, the costs associated with playing high level youth soccer are astronomical and obviously not something that every family can afford.  I don't have all the answers, but something needs to change.  

    And just because Arena has had success doesn't mean that he can't be criticized for what happened.  Yes, he came into a bad situation but the fact is that they ended up needing a tie at Trinidad of all places and couldn't come up with 1 goddamn point.  He didn't even bring in Fabian Johnson for the last 2 qualifiers and left their most reliable central defender in Cameron on the bench in the last game.  But he'll just continue to say that everything is fine and nothing needs to change.  Smh.



    Yes to this post. Burn it down is figurative, but I am in favor of jettisoning all of the coaching and scouting staff at all levels of USSF national team play. We didn't qualify for the last Olympics, which is a good indicator we don't have the necessary talent moving up to the senior team in the near future. There are some great players, but I'm sure there are many, many more great players who are never identified and brought into the system due to the expensive nature of pay-to-play in this country. When we do identify good players, we either use them improperly (in different positions than they play with their clubs, or positions which hinder rather than promote their growth), don't have a good tactical understanding, keep them on the bench, etc... I'm tired of the same coaches just moving around different levels at USSF. Time for new blood, new ideas, new players, new development programs. Don't burn it down all at once, but identify issues and make big changes. Our program here is beyond needing tweaks. We need wholesale changes starting at the top, down through administration, and out onto the field. Coaches, scouts, players, administrators - the lot of them. I have never been a big Lalas fan, but his rant about tattooed millionaires was on the money. We can have the best facilities, management, coaching staff, and tactics but if the players don't give two shits, then we don't win. The current players don't give two shits. Or even one. There are 3 or 4 players who should be invited back. But our roster for the 2022 games should currently be unrecognizable. I want to spend the next 6 years getting to know our new players, and erasing the current players from my memory.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 26,199
    College soccer...Burn it down.
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,611
    edited November 2017
    jeffbr said:
    jeffbr said:
    Here's a great article touching on this money grab by US Soccer, as well as scorching Bruce Arena. I think the author is spot on.

    American Soccer Needs To Burn To The Ground

    "First we learned about an absolutely absurd, moronic, avaricious, unintentionally self-disgracing plan by the money-grubbing shitbrains in charge of soccer in this country. These geniuses are apparently attempting to organize a Tournament of Losers next summer in the U.S. that would host some of the prominent international teams that failed to make the World Cup. Rather than hibernating for a year or so in shame over how colossally the U.S. botched the World Cup qualification process—and rather than undergoing a sober and ruthless accounting of the specific ways the entire soccer system in America failed, and coming up with a strategy for how to fix these flaws—U.S. Soccer and their shady marketing arm Soccer United Marketing thought the best use of their time was to draw even more attention to the most humiliating incident in this country’s history in the sport by dreaming up a risible, though almost certainly profitable, World Crap."
    Whatever you call it, the games will happen here.  Don't get hung up on what writers are trying to drum up to get clicks.   We are the only ones that hate ourselves.  The rest of the world loves to play here. They have that stupid preseason international club cup where like 30 teams play around the world with 3/4 of them playing in us.  They then declare a winner.  I have no idea how but the point is every club and country comes to the us to grab the money.  Don't be more self hating about this.  There is no doubt friendlies will happen on us soil and some concept like this will be taken but it won't be officially sanctioned.  It will be the Barclays-Qatar-Exxon-Virgin Atlantic World Goblet.  And all the Italians and Chileans and Trinidadians (oh, wait we won't invite them) living in the US will buy tickets which is the exact reason they will hold the meaningless games here.

    as for burn to the ground - how silly.  We missed.  It happens.  Yes, in concacaf we should make it every time.  But don't forget, if we hadnt scored a late, meaningless goal on the last day 4 years ago Mexico would have missed.  We are just not used to losing.  We now have the most creative player the us has ever had who will be in his prime the next 2 world cups.  We were caught between cycles.  He's too young now, Dempsey is too old, and altidore never fulfilled promise.   The old cycle is done, and now we spend 2 years figuring out who's next.  That's how this works.  
    So do you think everything is fine in US Soccer and nothing should change??  If it shouldn't be burnt to the ground now, then when should it be? It's just about impossible for a solid team not to qualify from CONCACAF, but the US somehow found a way.  And then you have Arena out there saying everything is fine, nothing to see here!!!  What a joke.
    Absolutely not.    My kids play soccer and the identification process is fd up.    

    We we love to parse what people say.  Just remember that Bruce Arena is the most successful coach in US history.  That last loss is completely embarrassing, but we put ourselves in a huge hole he was trying to dig us out from under.  But that doesn't go to how we build a national team.   

    But burn the whole thing down?  And what would you replace it with?  Until we are ready to spend $100 s of millions identifying and then training players, we are never going to have the best possible team.  So, sure burn the whole thing down and replace it with that.  You willing to pay for that?

    We've had a fairly successful run.  A few knock out stages, a final 8 that could have easily been a final 4.   Let me know how England has done over the last 20 years.
    When I say burn it down, I mean that there needs to be new leadership and Gulati needs to go.  I'm not saying the whole system as it exists needs to be thrown out, but obviously there needs to be changes because something isn't right.  Like I keep saying, with the talent and resources US Soccer has, it's just about impossible not to qualify out of CONCACAF.  

    Like Cliffy mentioned, the costs associated with playing high level youth soccer are astronomical and obviously not something that every family can afford.  I don't have all the answers, but something needs to change.  

    And just because Arena has had success doesn't mean that he can't be criticized for what happened.  Yes, he came into a bad situation but the fact is that they ended up needing a tie at Trinidad of all places and couldn't come up with 1 goddamn point.  He didn't even bring in Fabian Johnson for the last 2 qualifiers and left their most reliable central defender in Cameron on the bench in the last game.  But he'll just continue to say that everything is fine and nothing needs to change.  Smh.



    Yes to this post. Burn it down is figurative, but I am in favor of jettisoning all of the coaching and scouting staff at all levels of USSF national team play. We didn't qualify for the last Olympics, which is a good indicator we don't have the necessary talent moving up to the senior team in the near future. There are some great players, but I'm sure there are many, many more great players who are never identified and brought into the system due to the expensive nature of pay-to-play in this country. When we do identify good players, we either use them improperly (in different positions than they play with their clubs, or positions which hinder rather than promote their growth), don't have a good tactical understanding, keep them on the bench, etc... I'm tired of the same coaches just moving around different levels at USSF. Time for new blood, new ideas, new players, new development programs. Don't burn it down all at once, but identify issues and make big changes. Our program here is beyond needing tweaks. We need wholesale changes starting at the top, down through administration, and out onto the field. Coaches, scouts, players, administrators - the lot of them. I have never been a big Lalas fan, but his rant about tattooed millionaires was on the money. We can have the best facilities, management, coaching staff, and tactics but if the players don't give two shits, then we don't win. The current players don't give two shits. Or even one. There are 3 or 4 players who should be invited back. But our roster for the 2022 games should currently be unrecognizable. I want to spend the next 6 years getting to know our new players, and erasing the current players from my memory.
    Very well said.  I agree on wanting to erase some of these current players from memory.  I never want to see Bradley, Jozy, Omar Gonzalez and so many others in a US jersey again.  

    And it's the past 2 Olympics that we haven't qualified for....missed both 2012 and 2016.  Failures all around yet some people think that wholesale changes aren't needed....LOL.
    Post edited by Indifference71 on
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 5,937
    College soccer...Burn it down.

    That, too! Lol. Yeah, having players in their prime playing against subpar competition, playing relatively few games, and in many cases having coaches not able to properly develop them isn't doing them any favors. They should be playing professionally at that age. When a player comes out of college and joins the pro ranks, they're years behind players of similar age who went straight to pro teams. There are often exceptions, but that doesn't negate the rule. Real, professional experience is a far better teacher than the college game. College will always be an option at any age and physical ability. A professional contract won't. Go play, make some money, and then go to school if that is what you really want. But if your goal is to be a professional player, then quit wasting time with college.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 5,937
    jeffbr said:
    jeffbr said:
    Here's a great article touching on this money grab by US Soccer, as well as scorching Bruce Arena. I think the author is spot on.

    American Soccer Needs To Burn To The Ground

    "First we learned about an absolutely absurd, moronic, avaricious, unintentionally self-disgracing plan by the money-grubbing shitbrains in charge of soccer in this country. These geniuses are apparently attempting to organize a Tournament of Losers next summer in the U.S. that would host some of the prominent international teams that failed to make the World Cup. Rather than hibernating for a year or so in shame over how colossally the U.S. botched the World Cup qualification process—and rather than undergoing a sober and ruthless accounting of the specific ways the entire soccer system in America failed, and coming up with a strategy for how to fix these flaws—U.S. Soccer and their shady marketing arm Soccer United Marketing thought the best use of their time was to draw even more attention to the most humiliating incident in this country’s history in the sport by dreaming up a risible, though almost certainly profitable, World Crap."
    Whatever you call it, the games will happen here.  Don't get hung up on what writers are trying to drum up to get clicks.   We are the only ones that hate ourselves.  The rest of the world loves to play here. They have that stupid preseason international club cup where like 30 teams play around the world with 3/4 of them playing in us.  They then declare a winner.  I have no idea how but the point is every club and country comes to the us to grab the money.  Don't be more self hating about this.  There is no doubt friendlies will happen on us soil and some concept like this will be taken but it won't be officially sanctioned.  It will be the Barclays-Qatar-Exxon-Virgin Atlantic World Goblet.  And all the Italians and Chileans and Trinidadians (oh, wait we won't invite them) living in the US will buy tickets which is the exact reason they will hold the meaningless games here.

    as for burn to the ground - how silly.  We missed.  It happens.  Yes, in concacaf we should make it every time.  But don't forget, if we hadnt scored a late, meaningless goal on the last day 4 years ago Mexico would have missed.  We are just not used to losing.  We now have the most creative player the us has ever had who will be in his prime the next 2 world cups.  We were caught between cycles.  He's too young now, Dempsey is too old, and altidore never fulfilled promise.   The old cycle is done, and now we spend 2 years figuring out who's next.  That's how this works.  
    So do you think everything is fine in US Soccer and nothing should change??  If it shouldn't be burnt to the ground now, then when should it be? It's just about impossible for a solid team not to qualify from CONCACAF, but the US somehow found a way.  And then you have Arena out there saying everything is fine, nothing to see here!!!  What a joke.
    Absolutely not.    My kids play soccer and the identification process is fd up.    

    We we love to parse what people say.  Just remember that Bruce Arena is the most successful coach in US history.  That last loss is completely embarrassing, but we put ourselves in a huge hole he was trying to dig us out from under.  But that doesn't go to how we build a national team.   

    But burn the whole thing down?  And what would you replace it with?  Until we are ready to spend $100 s of millions identifying and then training players, we are never going to have the best possible team.  So, sure burn the whole thing down and replace it with that.  You willing to pay for that?

    We've had a fairly successful run.  A few knock out stages, a final 8 that could have easily been a final 4.   Let me know how England has done over the last 20 years.
    When I say burn it down, I mean that there needs to be new leadership and Gulati needs to go.  I'm not saying the whole system as it exists needs to be thrown out, but obviously there needs to be changes because something isn't right.  Like I keep saying, with the talent and resources US Soccer has, it's just about impossible not to qualify out of CONCACAF.  

    Like Cliffy mentioned, the costs associated with playing high level youth soccer are astronomical and obviously not something that every family can afford.  I don't have all the answers, but something needs to change.  

    And just because Arena has had success doesn't mean that he can't be criticized for what happened.  Yes, he came into a bad situation but the fact is that they ended up needing a tie at Trinidad of all places and couldn't come up with 1 goddamn point.  He didn't even bring in Fabian Johnson for the last 2 qualifiers and left their most reliable central defender in Cameron on the bench in the last game.  But he'll just continue to say that everything is fine and nothing needs to change.  Smh.



    Yes to this post. Burn it down is figurative, but I am in favor of jettisoning all of the coaching and scouting staff at all levels of USSF national team play. We didn't qualify for the last Olympics, which is a good indicator we don't have the necessary talent moving up to the senior team in the near future. There are some great players, but I'm sure there are many, many more great players who are never identified and brought into the system due to the expensive nature of pay-to-play in this country. When we do identify good players, we either use them improperly (in different positions than they play with their clubs, or positions which hinder rather than promote their growth), don't have a good tactical understanding, keep them on the bench, etc... I'm tired of the same coaches just moving around different levels at USSF. Time for new blood, new ideas, new players, new development programs. Don't burn it down all at once, but identify issues and make big changes. Our program here is beyond needing tweaks. We need wholesale changes starting at the top, down through administration, and out onto the field. Coaches, scouts, players, administrators - the lot of them. I have never been a big Lalas fan, but his rant about tattooed millionaires was on the money. We can have the best facilities, management, coaching staff, and tactics but if the players don't give two shits, then we don't win. The current players don't give two shits. Or even one. There are 3 or 4 players who should be invited back. But our roster for the 2022 games should currently be unrecognizable. I want to spend the next 6 years getting to know our new players, and erasing the current players from my memory.
    Very well said.  I agree on wanting to erase some of these current players from memory.  I never want to see Bradley, Jozy, Omar Gonzalez and so many others in a US jersey again.  

    And it's the past 2 Olympics that we haven't qualified for....missed both 2012 and 2016.  Failures all around yet some people think that wholesale changes aren't needed....LOL.

    Exactly. And the guy at the helm of our 2012 Olympic qualifying failure, Caleb Porter, now has his name being floated as a possible USMNT candidate. No thanks. Check out Caleb's 2012 roster and you'll see that there wasn't much to work with, and few of them have had any meaningful impact on the senior team. He even had Freddy Adu on his roster. Lol. So 20 years of no Olympics shows that we have a pretty dry pipeline of talent flowing from the youth level into the senior team roster. We can certainly fill rosters with bodies. But going forward I'd like to fill rosters with talent.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • eddieceddiec Posts: 2,693
    I think a problem with the Men's team, and soccer in general in the United States, is our talent pool. Soccer among male athletes tends to be a middle to upper class sport. Most of these players come from families who want their children to go to University, not become part of youth development league and then forego college in an attempt to go professional. While it may happen in cases, it will never be the norm. Some great players will undoubtedly give up soccer and use their education to earn a living. Compare this to Europe/South America and you have a huge divide in the player pool. The players from these countries are similar economically to our football/basketball players. I'm not saying we don't produce quality players but with this divide we will never consistently compete against the power nations of soccer. 
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 23,698
    eddiec said:
    I think a problem with the Men's team, and soccer in general in the United States, is our talent pool. Soccer among male athletes tends to be a middle to upper class sport. Most of these players come from families who want their children to go to University, not become part of youth development league and then forego college in an attempt to go professional. While it may happen in cases, it will never be the norm. Some great players will undoubtedly give up soccer and use their education to earn a living. Compare this to Europe/South America and you have a huge divide in the player pool. The players from these countries are similar economically to our football/basketball players. I'm not saying we don't produce quality players but with this divide we will never consistently compete against the power nations of soccer. 

    damn! that makes a ton of sense. no wonder team USA sucks.

    soccer is a yuppie kid sport in the US.
    If I had known then what I know now...

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  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 12,400
    Interesting that in the USA it's seen as a yuppie sport.
    Soccer isn't the number one sport here in Australia but it's open to anyone, especially working class kids.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 26,199
    Soccer is way too expensive in this country, especially at an elite level
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 26,199
    Anyone watching this arsenal game?!?
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 26,199
    edited January 8
    Didn't know anything about this kid before last week, but not good. What a disaster.

    http://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states/story/3341431/jonathan-gonzalez-chooses-mexico-over-united-states-say-sources

    The US lost this kid because they didn't even give him a call regarding the most meaningless game in this country's soccer history.

    Post edited by Cliffy6745 on
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,611
    Didn't know anything about this kid before last week, but not good. What a disaster.

    http://www.espn.com/soccer/united-states/story/3341431/jonathan-gonzalez-chooses-mexico-over-united-states-say-sources

    The US lost this kid because they didn't even give him a call regarding the most meaningless game in this country's soccer history.


    Brutal.  Not qualifying for the world cup is still killing US Soccer.  
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,937
    Soccer is way too expensive in this country, especially at an elite level
    You need some cleats and underwear and a pair of shorts.  Most other countries don't worry about cleats. 

    The reason soccer is so popular world wide is that it is the food equivalent of rice.  Just need some dirt, a ball and some chicken wire for goal.  Every country can compete regardless of their GDP. I can't think of a less expensive sport to play.  Even that Rambo 3 goat game required more resources.

    if the reason the USA can't compete in soccer is because of cost then we should officially fuck this sport and focus on hockey 


  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,937
    Just imagine the cost of apparel while playing sheep carcass polo in Connecticut in mid spring...


  • elvistheking44elvistheking44 Posts: 3,461
    Jason P said:
    Soccer is way too expensive in this country, especially at an elite level
    You need some cleats and underwear and a pair of shorts.  Most other countries don't worry about cleats. 

    The reason soccer is so popular world wide is that it is the food equivalent of rice.  Just need some dirt, a ball and some chicken wire for goal.  Every country can compete regardless of their GDP. I can't think of a less expensive sport to play.  Even that Rambo 3 goat game required more resources.

    if the reason the USA can't compete in soccer is because of cost then we should officially fuck this sport and focus on hockey 


    You obviously don’t have kids that are playing travel soccer, or training with an elite trainer.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,937
    Jason P said:
    Soccer is way too expensive in this country, especially at an elite level
    You need some cleats and underwear and a pair of shorts.  Most other countries don't worry about cleats. 

    The reason soccer is so popular world wide is that it is the food equivalent of rice.  Just need some dirt, a ball and some chicken wire for goal.  Every country can compete regardless of their GDP. I can't think of a less expensive sport to play.  Even that Rambo 3 goat game required more resources.

    if the reason the USA can't compete in soccer is because of cost then we should officially fuck this sport and focus on hockey 


    You obviously don’t have kids that are playing travel soccer, or training with an elite trainer.
    Nah. Just me and everyone from Trinidad.  
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,937
    Or is it Tobago?  You say Tomoto, I say tomato.  
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,937
    Elite trainer for soccer in USA is term for snake oil salesman 
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 26,199
    Jason P said:
    Elite trainer for soccer in USA is term for snake oil salesman 
    Which is pretty much the point. We have borderline shit coaches and the best of them are only available to upper middle class kids
  • elvistheking44elvistheking44 Posts: 3,461
    Jason P said:
    Elite trainer for soccer in USA is term for snake oil salesman 
    Let me know how that kid in his cleats and underwear kicking a can around in the dirt does when he gets to High School and has never played travel or had proper training.  It's different in the US.  The system is set up for upper middle class kids.  Sure a few clubs offer scholarships, but its not near enough.  Two kids, two club fees, plus travel, plus tournaments, plus training in the offseason......$$$$$.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,937
    Jason P said:
    Elite trainer for soccer in USA is term for snake oil salesman 
    Let me know how that kid in his cleats and underwear kicking a can around in the dirt does when he gets to High School and has never played travel or had proper training.  It's different in the US.  The system is set up for upper middle class kids.  Sure a few clubs offer scholarships, but its not near enough.  Two kids, two club fees, plus travel, plus tournaments, plus training in the offseason......$$$$$.
    I apologize.  I don't know a thing about US soccer and I was a dumb butt in my attitude last night. I've been having a bad few weeks and my attitude for life has been sore. Hope your kids have success. I don't want to drag them into my downward spiral 
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 26,199
    I would run through a wall for Geoff Cameron right now

    https://www.theplayerstribune.com/geoff-cameron-what-must-change-in-u-s-soccer/

  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 5,937
    I would run through a wall for Geoff Cameron right now

    https://www.theplayerstribune.com/geoff-cameron-what-must-change-in-u-s-soccer/

    Great article. I hadn't read that yet. I completely agree with Geoff. And I especially like this: 
    "But this is the mentality that is so toxic across the board in youth soccer in America. It’s not about proving yourself every day. It’s about what you did last year. It’s about who you know. It’s about your size. It’s about your reputation. It’s about what fancy youth club you play for."

    I know I bitched earlier in this thread about the way we identify youth talent in this country, and this sums it up. I also think he appropriately blasted Arena (without really blasting him). The mentality of this team was assbackwards and the results demonstrated that. Ill-prepared, unmotivated, no urgency, poor formation, poor tactics. There just wasn't anything good about that team or the way they played their last couple of games. A complete shit show. Geoff has a pretty good grasp on reality. I just hope that whomever is elected this weekend understands this perspective. But since we're in bizzaro-land in this country currently, I'm sure US Soccer voting will mimic US presidential elections and Hope Solo will be the new president of US Soccer. Good times.

    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 12,400
    Is there hooliganism in the US league?
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
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