The Idiot Thread

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  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 3,938
    you don't get to break laws because your intentions were pure. 
    Has she been indicted as a result of evidence gathered during a law enforcement investigation and presented to a grand jury with an indictment specifying which laws were violated?
    has trump?
    Way more smoke there and a history of violating the law with indictments and guilty pleas among those close to him. I’m not sure you can claim the same in this instance. Apples and oranges. Team Trump Treason will be indicted.
    Video evidence of the crime itself is a lot of smoke if you ask me...
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,060
    dignin said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    if Kellyanne Conway was caught with a bag of cocaine on her, and she tried to claim she found it and was on her way to turning into police, would you take her word for it? Whether she was telling the truth is irrelevant. would you believe her?

    I find it very interesting how quickly people are defending this woman. Isn't the law the law? Shouldn't our politicians be held to a standard of at LEAST not breaking the law, especially when it relates to proper handling and storage of a firearms?
    Again with the terrible drug analogies. 
    change "bag of cocaine" with "modified AR-15" then. 
    She’d smile and cock her head after claiming it’s fake news or alternative facts.
    I didn't ask what she'd do. 
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 3,938
    edited March 9
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, maybe if she had destroyed it before turning it into an SBR.  All she did in the video was turn it into an illegal firearm, not destroy it.  

    "I knew exactly what I was doing. The gun was inoperable before I cut it. And we took it completely apart. And we didn't put all that on video because I wanted to get the message to the students that I was standing with them," said Mallard.

    Virginia Beach Police confirmed Thursday afternoon the gun was in their possession and waiting to be picked up by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    http://wtkr.com/2018/03/08/i-knew-exactly-what-i-was-doing-congressional-candidate-saws-ar-15-apart/

    Seriously, common sense. This is a dumb story.
    No, she is displaying even more incompetence.  The gun was attached to the lower receiver in the video, so there is no proof of it being an inoperable firearm.  She is just in “cover your ass” mode now.  And once again, it doesn’t matter what she intended to do with it afterwards.  The law has no “intent” clause.  Legally, it is just like someone manufacturing meth and “intending” to destroy or give it to police afterwards.  If she was responsible, she would have recorded a video of how to legally destroy it...She can kiss her political career bye bye.
    I get what you're saying, but the meth analogy isn't working. Meth is never legal to begin with so even owning the supplies with the intent to manufacture meth is illegal before you even start. Intent does matter in that instance and it also matters when courts and LE agencies consider what action to take or how to charge a crime. If you wanted to argue that she should have made a disclaimer about how cutting off the barrel is illegal so the ignorant non gun owners understood they shouldn't just go around cutting down guns, then I can get behind that, but your intent (there's that word again :)) here seems more about sticking it to the anti-gun owners.

    Personally, I don't give a shit, but just my observation. I'm more concerned about the gun owner who makes a youtube video showing how much of a killing machine their AR is. That is idiotic.
    No, my intent is to hold politicians to the same legal standards as any other citizen.  The people trying to make laws should know the fucking laws in the first place.  I think the meth argument still holds pretty true. If you make meth and turn it into police, are they just going to say “thank you for your honesty kind sir”?  I think not.
    And if those gun owners you are talking about did something illegal in their video, I would call them out all the same.
    Comparing this woman to a drug manufacturer? That is insane. You only give a shit because because she is a democrat and the daily caller told you you should give a shit. 
    I haven’t even seen the daily caller story, but thanks for projecting.  The video was widely in circulation before any news stories about it were released.  But you are right, I don’t want this ignorant democrat in office.  She is probably a nice person, but she did commit a felony.
    Well I guess she is guilty of this heinous crime because you said so. I will be waiting in earnest for the results of this important investigation. I'm sure they have a whole task force dedicated to it.

    I love the idiot thread.
    My only point here is the same point the lawyer who was quoted in the story you linked was making:
      
    News 3 reached out to local attorney Eric Leckie and showed him the video. He said, "Sawing off the end of a rifle barrel would probably not destroy it. But if it shortened the barrel to under 16 inches, sawing off the end would make it immediately illegal and it`s a very bad idea," said Leckie.

    Somehow, pointing this out, turns one into a gun nut and an idiot, which I don't understand. I haven't seen any right-wing or left-wing articles about this story. I've only seen a couple MSM articles. So my observations are strictly from what was shown in the video. I saw the video before I even read a news story about it, and came to Leckie's conclusion on my own without biased sources for reference. I'm just a little astonished that pointing out a well-known firearms law has been classified as a right-wing, gun-nut talking point.
    That local attorney knows the law better than any of the felon supporters here...I’m going to believe what he says.

    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,298
    edited March 9
    dignin said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    if Kellyanne Conway was caught with a bag of cocaine on her, and she tried to claim she found it and was on her way to turning into police, would you take her word for it? Whether she was telling the truth is irrelevant. would you believe her?

    I find it very interesting how quickly people are defending this woman. Isn't the law the law? Shouldn't our politicians be held to a standard of at LEAST not breaking the law, especially when it relates to proper handling and storage of a firearms?
    Again with the terrible drug analogies. 
    change "bag of cocaine" with "modified AR-15" then. 
    She wasn't caught with anything. 

    If she cut the barrel of the gun off and was later found in possession of the gun by police then came up with the "I was trying to destroy the gun" story then that analogy might make some sense. 

  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,060
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, maybe if she had destroyed it before turning it into an SBR.  All she did in the video was turn it into an illegal firearm, not destroy it.  

    "I knew exactly what I was doing. The gun was inoperable before I cut it. And we took it completely apart. And we didn't put all that on video because I wanted to get the message to the students that I was standing with them," said Mallard.

    Virginia Beach Police confirmed Thursday afternoon the gun was in their possession and waiting to be picked up by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    http://wtkr.com/2018/03/08/i-knew-exactly-what-i-was-doing-congressional-candidate-saws-ar-15-apart/

    Seriously, common sense. This is a dumb story.
    No, she is displaying even more incompetence.  The gun was attached to the lower receiver in the video, so there is no proof of it being an inoperable firearm.  She is just in “cover your ass” mode now.  And once again, it doesn’t matter what she intended to do with it afterwards.  The law has no “intent” clause.  Legally, it is just like someone manufacturing meth and “intending” to destroy or give it to police afterwards.  If she was responsible, she would have recorded a video of how to legally destroy it...She can kiss her political career bye bye.
    I get what you're saying, but the meth analogy isn't working. Meth is never legal to begin with so even owning the supplies with the intent to manufacture meth is illegal before you even start. Intent does matter in that instance and it also matters when courts and LE agencies consider what action to take or how to charge a crime. If you wanted to argue that she should have made a disclaimer about how cutting off the barrel is illegal so the ignorant non gun owners understood they shouldn't just go around cutting down guns, then I can get behind that, but your intent (there's that word again :)) here seems more about sticking it to the anti-gun owners.

    Personally, I don't give a shit, but just my observation. I'm more concerned about the gun owner who makes a youtube video showing how much of a killing machine their AR is. That is idiotic.
    No, my intent is to hold politicians to the same legal standards as any other citizen.  The people trying to make laws should know the fucking laws in the first place.  I think the meth argument still holds pretty true. If you make meth and turn it into police, are they just going to say “thank you for your honesty kind sir”?  I think not.
    And if those gun owners you are talking about did something illegal in their video, I would call them out all the same.
    Comparing this woman to a drug manufacturer? That is insane. You only give a shit because because she is a democrat and the daily caller told you you should give a shit. 
    I haven’t even seen the daily caller story, but thanks for projecting.  The video was widely in circulation before any news stories about it were released.  But you are right, I don’t want this ignorant democrat in office.  She is probably a nice person, but she did commit a felony.
    Well I guess she is guilty of this heinous crime because you said so. I will be waiting in earnest for the results of this important investigation. I'm sure they have a whole task force dedicated to it.

    I love the idiot thread.
    My only point here is the same point the lawyer who was quoted in the story you linked was making:
      
    News 3 reached out to local attorney Eric Leckie and showed him the video. He said, "Sawing off the end of a rifle barrel would probably not destroy it. But if it shortened the barrel to under 16 inches, sawing off the end would make it immediately illegal and it`s a very bad idea," said Leckie.

    Somehow, pointing this out, turns one into a gun nut and an idiot, which I don't understand. I haven't seen any right-wing or left-wing articles about this story. I've only seen a couple MSM articles. So my observations are strictly from what was shown in the video. I saw the video before I even read a news story about it, and came to Leckie's conclusion on my own without biased sources for reference. I'm just a little astonished that pointing out a well-known firearms law has been classified as a right-wing, gun-nut talking point.
    some people don't like facts. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,060
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    if Kellyanne Conway was caught with a bag of cocaine on her, and she tried to claim she found it and was on her way to turning into police, would you take her word for it? Whether she was telling the truth is irrelevant. would you believe her?

    I find it very interesting how quickly people are defending this woman. Isn't the law the law? Shouldn't our politicians be held to a standard of at LEAST not breaking the law, especially when it relates to proper handling and storage of a firearms?
    Again with the terrible drug analogies. 
    change "bag of cocaine" with "modified AR-15" then. 
    She wasn't caught with anything. 

    If she cut the barrel of the gun off and was later found in possession of the gun by police then came up with the "I was trying to destroy the gun" story then that analogy might make some sense. 

    fine. let's redo it. if Kellyanne posted the same video that this woman did, what would your HONEST reaction be? "no big deal"? "hey, she's destroying a gun! I think....". 

    do you not think this should at least be addressed? I mean, the potential for some kid watching that video and getting some bright idea.....
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,298
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, maybe if she had destroyed it before turning it into an SBR.  All she did in the video was turn it into an illegal firearm, not destroy it.  

    "I knew exactly what I was doing. The gun was inoperable before I cut it. And we took it completely apart. And we didn't put all that on video because I wanted to get the message to the students that I was standing with them," said Mallard.

    Virginia Beach Police confirmed Thursday afternoon the gun was in their possession and waiting to be picked up by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    http://wtkr.com/2018/03/08/i-knew-exactly-what-i-was-doing-congressional-candidate-saws-ar-15-apart/

    Seriously, common sense. This is a dumb story.
    No, she is displaying even more incompetence.  The gun was attached to the lower receiver in the video, so there is no proof of it being an inoperable firearm.  She is just in “cover your ass” mode now.  And once again, it doesn’t matter what she intended to do with it afterwards.  The law has no “intent” clause.  Legally, it is just like someone manufacturing meth and “intending” to destroy or give it to police afterwards.  If she was responsible, she would have recorded a video of how to legally destroy it...She can kiss her political career bye bye.
    I get what you're saying, but the meth analogy isn't working. Meth is never legal to begin with so even owning the supplies with the intent to manufacture meth is illegal before you even start. Intent does matter in that instance and it also matters when courts and LE agencies consider what action to take or how to charge a crime. If you wanted to argue that she should have made a disclaimer about how cutting off the barrel is illegal so the ignorant non gun owners understood they shouldn't just go around cutting down guns, then I can get behind that, but your intent (there's that word again :)) here seems more about sticking it to the anti-gun owners.

    Personally, I don't give a shit, but just my observation. I'm more concerned about the gun owner who makes a youtube video showing how much of a killing machine their AR is. That is idiotic.
    No, my intent is to hold politicians to the same legal standards as any other citizen.  The people trying to make laws should know the fucking laws in the first place.  I think the meth argument still holds pretty true. If you make meth and turn it into police, are they just going to say “thank you for your honesty kind sir”?  I think not.
    And if those gun owners you are talking about did something illegal in their video, I would call them out all the same.
    Comparing this woman to a drug manufacturer? That is insane. You only give a shit because because she is a democrat and the daily caller told you you should give a shit. 
    I haven’t even seen the daily caller story, but thanks for projecting.  The video was widely in circulation before any news stories about it were released.  But you are right, I don’t want this ignorant democrat in office.  She is probably a nice person, but she did commit a felony.
    Well I guess she is guilty of this heinous crime because you said so. I will be waiting in earnest for the results of this important investigation. I'm sure they have a whole task force dedicated to it.

    I love the idiot thread.
    My only point here is the same point the lawyer who was quoted in the story you linked was making:
      
    News 3 reached out to local attorney Eric Leckie and showed him the video. He said, "Sawing off the end of a rifle barrel would probably not destroy it. But if it shortened the barrel to under 16 inches, sawing off the end would make it immediately illegal and it`s a very bad idea," said Leckie.

    Somehow, pointing this out, turns one into a gun nut and an idiot, which I don't understand. I haven't seen any right-wing or left-wing articles about this story. I've only seen a couple MSM articles. So my observations are strictly from what was shown in the video. I saw the video before I even read a news story about it, and came to Leckie's conclusion on my own without biased sources for reference. I'm just a little astonished that pointing out a well-known firearms law has been classified as a right-wing, gun-nut talking point.
    My posts are not directed at you Jeff, and I understand the points you are making. I'm disputing the "she is guilty and should pay the price" posters.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 42,231
    That idiot Martin Shkreli was just sentenced to 7 years in prison, lol.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,060
    dignin said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, maybe if she had destroyed it before turning it into an SBR.  All she did in the video was turn it into an illegal firearm, not destroy it.  

    "I knew exactly what I was doing. The gun was inoperable before I cut it. And we took it completely apart. And we didn't put all that on video because I wanted to get the message to the students that I was standing with them," said Mallard.

    Virginia Beach Police confirmed Thursday afternoon the gun was in their possession and waiting to be picked up by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    http://wtkr.com/2018/03/08/i-knew-exactly-what-i-was-doing-congressional-candidate-saws-ar-15-apart/

    Seriously, common sense. This is a dumb story.
    No, she is displaying even more incompetence.  The gun was attached to the lower receiver in the video, so there is no proof of it being an inoperable firearm.  She is just in “cover your ass” mode now.  And once again, it doesn’t matter what she intended to do with it afterwards.  The law has no “intent” clause.  Legally, it is just like someone manufacturing meth and “intending” to destroy or give it to police afterwards.  If she was responsible, she would have recorded a video of how to legally destroy it...She can kiss her political career bye bye.
    I get what you're saying, but the meth analogy isn't working. Meth is never legal to begin with so even owning the supplies with the intent to manufacture meth is illegal before you even start. Intent does matter in that instance and it also matters when courts and LE agencies consider what action to take or how to charge a crime. If you wanted to argue that she should have made a disclaimer about how cutting off the barrel is illegal so the ignorant non gun owners understood they shouldn't just go around cutting down guns, then I can get behind that, but your intent (there's that word again :)) here seems more about sticking it to the anti-gun owners.

    Personally, I don't give a shit, but just my observation. I'm more concerned about the gun owner who makes a youtube video showing how much of a killing machine their AR is. That is idiotic.
    No, my intent is to hold politicians to the same legal standards as any other citizen.  The people trying to make laws should know the fucking laws in the first place.  I think the meth argument still holds pretty true. If you make meth and turn it into police, are they just going to say “thank you for your honesty kind sir”?  I think not.
    And if those gun owners you are talking about did something illegal in their video, I would call them out all the same.
    Comparing this woman to a drug manufacturer? That is insane. You only give a shit because because she is a democrat and the daily caller told you you should give a shit. 
    I haven’t even seen the daily caller story, but thanks for projecting.  The video was widely in circulation before any news stories about it were released.  But you are right, I don’t want this ignorant democrat in office.  She is probably a nice person, but she did commit a felony.
    Well I guess she is guilty of this heinous crime because you said so. I will be waiting in earnest for the results of this important investigation. I'm sure they have a whole task force dedicated to it.

    I love the idiot thread.
    My only point here is the same point the lawyer who was quoted in the story you linked was making:
      
    News 3 reached out to local attorney Eric Leckie and showed him the video. He said, "Sawing off the end of a rifle barrel would probably not destroy it. But if it shortened the barrel to under 16 inches, sawing off the end would make it immediately illegal and it`s a very bad idea," said Leckie.

    Somehow, pointing this out, turns one into a gun nut and an idiot, which I don't understand. I haven't seen any right-wing or left-wing articles about this story. I've only seen a couple MSM articles. So my observations are strictly from what was shown in the video. I saw the video before I even read a news story about it, and came to Leckie's conclusion on my own without biased sources for reference. I'm just a little astonished that pointing out a well-known firearms law has been classified as a right-wing, gun-nut talking point.
    My posts are not directed at you Jeff, and I understand the points you are making. I'm disputing the "she is guilty and should pay the price" posters.
    no one said she IS guilty. people are saying it should be looked into. 
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 3,938
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    if Kellyanne Conway was caught with a bag of cocaine on her, and she tried to claim she found it and was on her way to turning into police, would you take her word for it? Whether she was telling the truth is irrelevant. would you believe her?

    I find it very interesting how quickly people are defending this woman. Isn't the law the law? Shouldn't our politicians be held to a standard of at LEAST not breaking the law, especially when it relates to proper handling and storage of a firearms?
    Again with the terrible drug analogies. 
    change "bag of cocaine" with "modified AR-15" then. 
    She wasn't caught with anything. 

    If she cut the barrel of the gun off and was later found in possession of the gun by police then came up with the "I was trying to destroy the gun" story then that analogy might make some sense. 

    fine. let's redo it. if Kellyanne posted the same video that this woman did, what would your HONEST reaction be? "no big deal"? "hey, she's destroying a gun! I think....". 

    do you not think this should at least be addressed? I mean, the potential for some kid watching that video and getting some bright idea.....
    Exactly, it sets precedent if nothing happens to her whatsoever.  How can anyone be arrested if they cut down a rifle on video if she is not?  You can either kiss her goodbye, or kiss the law goodbye.

    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,298
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    if Kellyanne Conway was caught with a bag of cocaine on her, and she tried to claim she found it and was on her way to turning into police, would you take her word for it? Whether she was telling the truth is irrelevant. would you believe her?

    I find it very interesting how quickly people are defending this woman. Isn't the law the law? Shouldn't our politicians be held to a standard of at LEAST not breaking the law, especially when it relates to proper handling and storage of a firearms?
    Again with the terrible drug analogies. 
    change "bag of cocaine" with "modified AR-15" then. 
    She wasn't caught with anything. 

    If she cut the barrel of the gun off and was later found in possession of the gun by police then came up with the "I was trying to destroy the gun" story then that analogy might make some sense. 

    fine. let's redo it. if Kellyanne posted the same video that this woman did, what would your HONEST reaction be? "no big deal"? "hey, she's destroying a gun! I think....". 

    do you not think this should at least be addressed? I mean, the potential for some kid watching that video and getting some bright idea.....
    The potential of some kid destroying a gun then turning into law enforcement? Why would I be worried about that? I would applaud that. If Donald Trump himself made that exact same video I would applaud him too.
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 3,938
    edited March 9
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    if Kellyanne Conway was caught with a bag of cocaine on her, and she tried to claim she found it and was on her way to turning into police, would you take her word for it? Whether she was telling the truth is irrelevant. would you believe her?

    I find it very interesting how quickly people are defending this woman. Isn't the law the law? Shouldn't our politicians be held to a standard of at LEAST not breaking the law, especially when it relates to proper handling and storage of a firearms?
    Again with the terrible drug analogies. 
    change "bag of cocaine" with "modified AR-15" then. 
    She wasn't caught with anything. 

    If she cut the barrel of the gun off and was later found in possession of the gun by police then came up with the "I was trying to destroy the gun" story then that analogy might make some sense. 

    fine. let's redo it. if Kellyanne posted the same video that this woman did, what would your HONEST reaction be? "no big deal"? "hey, she's destroying a gun! I think....". 

    do you not think this should at least be addressed? I mean, the potential for some kid watching that video and getting some bright idea.....
    The potential of some kid destroying a gun then turning into law enforcement? Why would I be worried about that? I would applaud that. If Donald Trump himself made that exact same video I would applaud him too.
    Again, you miss the fact that she did not destroy it.  She just made the barrel shorter.  It will still fire...
    She should have just given it to police to start with instead of committing a felony in the process of grandstanding.
    What’s to keep anyone from doing the same thing and just saying “oh, but I was going to give it to the police” after getting caught.  You don’t understand how the law works very well do you?
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,298
    dignin said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, maybe if she had destroyed it before turning it into an SBR.  All she did in the video was turn it into an illegal firearm, not destroy it.  

    "I knew exactly what I was doing. The gun was inoperable before I cut it. And we took it completely apart. And we didn't put all that on video because I wanted to get the message to the students that I was standing with them," said Mallard.

    Virginia Beach Police confirmed Thursday afternoon the gun was in their possession and waiting to be picked up by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    http://wtkr.com/2018/03/08/i-knew-exactly-what-i-was-doing-congressional-candidate-saws-ar-15-apart/

    Seriously, common sense. This is a dumb story.
    No, she is displaying even more incompetence.  The gun was attached to the lower receiver in the video, so there is no proof of it being an inoperable firearm.  She is just in “cover your ass” mode now.  And once again, it doesn’t matter what she intended to do with it afterwards.  The law has no “intent” clause.  Legally, it is just like someone manufacturing meth and “intending” to destroy or give it to police afterwards.  If she was responsible, she would have recorded a video of how to legally destroy it...She can kiss her political career bye bye.
    I get what you're saying, but the meth analogy isn't working. Meth is never legal to begin with so even owning the supplies with the intent to manufacture meth is illegal before you even start. Intent does matter in that instance and it also matters when courts and LE agencies consider what action to take or how to charge a crime. If you wanted to argue that she should have made a disclaimer about how cutting off the barrel is illegal so the ignorant non gun owners understood they shouldn't just go around cutting down guns, then I can get behind that, but your intent (there's that word again :)) here seems more about sticking it to the anti-gun owners.

    Personally, I don't give a shit, but just my observation. I'm more concerned about the gun owner who makes a youtube video showing how much of a killing machine their AR is. That is idiotic.
    No, my intent is to hold politicians to the same legal standards as any other citizen.  The people trying to make laws should know the fucking laws in the first place.  I think the meth argument still holds pretty true. If you make meth and turn it into police, are they just going to say “thank you for your honesty kind sir”?  I think not.
    And if those gun owners you are talking about did something illegal in their video, I would call them out all the same.
    Comparing this woman to a drug manufacturer? That is insane. You only give a shit because because she is a democrat and the daily caller told you you should give a shit. 
    I haven’t even seen the daily caller story, but thanks for projecting.  The video was widely in circulation before any news stories about it were released.  But you are right, I don’t want this ignorant democrat in office.  She is probably a nice person, but she did commit a felony.
    Well I guess she is guilty of this heinous crime because you said so. I will be waiting in earnest for the results of this important investigation. I'm sure they have a whole task force dedicated to it.

    I love the idiot thread.
    My only point here is the same point the lawyer who was quoted in the story you linked was making:
      
    News 3 reached out to local attorney Eric Leckie and showed him the video. He said, "Sawing off the end of a rifle barrel would probably not destroy it. But if it shortened the barrel to under 16 inches, sawing off the end would make it immediately illegal and it`s a very bad idea," said Leckie.

    Somehow, pointing this out, turns one into a gun nut and an idiot, which I don't understand. I haven't seen any right-wing or left-wing articles about this story. I've only seen a couple MSM articles. So my observations are strictly from what was shown in the video. I saw the video before I even read a news story about it, and came to Leckie's conclusion on my own without biased sources for reference. I'm just a little astonished that pointing out a well-known firearms law has been classified as a right-wing, gun-nut talking point.
    My posts are not directed at you Jeff, and I understand the points you are making. I'm disputing the "she is guilty and should pay the price" posters.
    no one said she IS guilty. people are saying it should be looked into. 
    Your bro power has been calling her a felon this whole time. 

  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,060
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    if Kellyanne Conway was caught with a bag of cocaine on her, and she tried to claim she found it and was on her way to turning into police, would you take her word for it? Whether she was telling the truth is irrelevant. would you believe her?

    I find it very interesting how quickly people are defending this woman. Isn't the law the law? Shouldn't our politicians be held to a standard of at LEAST not breaking the law, especially when it relates to proper handling and storage of a firearms?
    Again with the terrible drug analogies. 
    change "bag of cocaine" with "modified AR-15" then. 
    She wasn't caught with anything. 

    If she cut the barrel of the gun off and was later found in possession of the gun by police then came up with the "I was trying to destroy the gun" story then that analogy might make some sense. 

    fine. let's redo it. if Kellyanne posted the same video that this woman did, what would your HONEST reaction be? "no big deal"? "hey, she's destroying a gun! I think....". 

    do you not think this should at least be addressed? I mean, the potential for some kid watching that video and getting some bright idea.....
    The potential of some kid destroying a gun then turning into law enforcement? Why would I be worried about that? I would applaud that. If Donald Trump himself made that exact same video I would applaud him too.
    obviously I was referring to some kid modifying it to make it short barreled. 
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 3,663
    PJPOWER said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    She said it happened, so it must have...even though there is video evidence point to the contrary...Is that where you are going with this?  Keep defending the felon.
    She was convicted already? That was fast. I didn't even see that she was arrested....
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 3,938
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, maybe if she had destroyed it before turning it into an SBR.  All she did in the video was turn it into an illegal firearm, not destroy it.  

    "I knew exactly what I was doing. The gun was inoperable before I cut it. And we took it completely apart. And we didn't put all that on video because I wanted to get the message to the students that I was standing with them," said Mallard.

    Virginia Beach Police confirmed Thursday afternoon the gun was in their possession and waiting to be picked up by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    http://wtkr.com/2018/03/08/i-knew-exactly-what-i-was-doing-congressional-candidate-saws-ar-15-apart/

    Seriously, common sense. This is a dumb story.
    No, she is displaying even more incompetence.  The gun was attached to the lower receiver in the video, so there is no proof of it being an inoperable firearm.  She is just in “cover your ass” mode now.  And once again, it doesn’t matter what she intended to do with it afterwards.  The law has no “intent” clause.  Legally, it is just like someone manufacturing meth and “intending” to destroy or give it to police afterwards.  If she was responsible, she would have recorded a video of how to legally destroy it...She can kiss her political career bye bye.
    I get what you're saying, but the meth analogy isn't working. Meth is never legal to begin with so even owning the supplies with the intent to manufacture meth is illegal before you even start. Intent does matter in that instance and it also matters when courts and LE agencies consider what action to take or how to charge a crime. If you wanted to argue that she should have made a disclaimer about how cutting off the barrel is illegal so the ignorant non gun owners understood they shouldn't just go around cutting down guns, then I can get behind that, but your intent (there's that word again :)) here seems more about sticking it to the anti-gun owners.

    Personally, I don't give a shit, but just my observation. I'm more concerned about the gun owner who makes a youtube video showing how much of a killing machine their AR is. That is idiotic.
    No, my intent is to hold politicians to the same legal standards as any other citizen.  The people trying to make laws should know the fucking laws in the first place.  I think the meth argument still holds pretty true. If you make meth and turn it into police, are they just going to say “thank you for your honesty kind sir”?  I think not.
    And if those gun owners you are talking about did something illegal in their video, I would call them out all the same.
    Comparing this woman to a drug manufacturer? That is insane. You only give a shit because because she is a democrat and the daily caller told you you should give a shit. 
    I haven’t even seen the daily caller story, but thanks for projecting.  The video was widely in circulation before any news stories about it were released.  But you are right, I don’t want this ignorant democrat in office.  She is probably a nice person, but she did commit a felony.
    Well I guess she is guilty of this heinous crime because you said so. I will be waiting in earnest for the results of this important investigation. I'm sure they have a whole task force dedicated to it.

    I love the idiot thread.
    My only point here is the same point the lawyer who was quoted in the story you linked was making:
      
    News 3 reached out to local attorney Eric Leckie and showed him the video. He said, "Sawing off the end of a rifle barrel would probably not destroy it. But if it shortened the barrel to under 16 inches, sawing off the end would make it immediately illegal and it`s a very bad idea," said Leckie.

    Somehow, pointing this out, turns one into a gun nut and an idiot, which I don't understand. I haven't seen any right-wing or left-wing articles about this story. I've only seen a couple MSM articles. So my observations are strictly from what was shown in the video. I saw the video before I even read a news story about it, and came to Leckie's conclusion on my own without biased sources for reference. I'm just a little astonished that pointing out a well-known firearms law has been classified as a right-wing, gun-nut talking point.
    My posts are not directed at you Jeff, and I understand the points you are making. I'm disputing the "she is guilty and should pay the price" posters.
    no one said she IS guilty. people are saying it should be looked into. 
    Your bro power has been calling her a felon this whole time. 

    Seems like a pretty cut and dry case the way the law reads, but yes, I believe in due process and that she should be prosecuted the same as anyone before a felony goes on her record.
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,298
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    if Kellyanne Conway was caught with a bag of cocaine on her, and she tried to claim she found it and was on her way to turning into police, would you take her word for it? Whether she was telling the truth is irrelevant. would you believe her?

    I find it very interesting how quickly people are defending this woman. Isn't the law the law? Shouldn't our politicians be held to a standard of at LEAST not breaking the law, especially when it relates to proper handling and storage of a firearms?
    Again with the terrible drug analogies. 
    change "bag of cocaine" with "modified AR-15" then. 
    She wasn't caught with anything. 

    If she cut the barrel of the gun off and was later found in possession of the gun by police then came up with the "I was trying to destroy the gun" story then that analogy might make some sense. 

    fine. let's redo it. if Kellyanne posted the same video that this woman did, what would your HONEST reaction be? "no big deal"? "hey, she's destroying a gun! I think....". 

    do you not think this should at least be addressed? I mean, the potential for some kid watching that video and getting some bright idea.....
    The potential of some kid destroying a gun then turning into law enforcement? Why would I be worried about that? I would applaud that. If Donald Trump himself made that exact same video I would applaud him too.
    Again, you miss the fact that she did not destroy it.  She just made the barrel shorter.  It will still fire...
    She should have just given it to police to start with instead of committing a felony in the process of grandstanding.

    And you keep leaving out the whole story. The gun was inoperable before she cut the barrel, then they dismantled it and gave it to the police. That was the obvious plan all along, you are making this out to be something sinister because you don't agree with her politics. Nobody watching that video is thinking she is doing that to make the weapon illegal.
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 3,938
    edited March 9
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    if Kellyanne Conway was caught with a bag of cocaine on her, and she tried to claim she found it and was on her way to turning into police, would you take her word for it? Whether she was telling the truth is irrelevant. would you believe her?

    I find it very interesting how quickly people are defending this woman. Isn't the law the law? Shouldn't our politicians be held to a standard of at LEAST not breaking the law, especially when it relates to proper handling and storage of a firearms?
    Again with the terrible drug analogies. 
    change "bag of cocaine" with "modified AR-15" then. 
    She wasn't caught with anything. 

    If she cut the barrel of the gun off and was later found in possession of the gun by police then came up with the "I was trying to destroy the gun" story then that analogy might make some sense. 

    fine. let's redo it. if Kellyanne posted the same video that this woman did, what would your HONEST reaction be? "no big deal"? "hey, she's destroying a gun! I think....". 

    do you not think this should at least be addressed? I mean, the potential for some kid watching that video and getting some bright idea.....
    The potential of some kid destroying a gun then turning into law enforcement? Why would I be worried about that? I would applaud that. If Donald Trump himself made that exact same video I would applaud him too.
    Again, you miss the fact that she did not destroy it.  She just made the barrel shorter.  It will still fire...
    She should have just given it to police to start with instead of committing a felony in the process of grandstanding.

    And you keep leaving out the whole story. The gun was inoperable before she cut the barrel, then they dismantled it and gave it to the police. That was the obvious plan all along, you are making this out to be something sinister because you don't agree with her politics. Nobody watching that video is thinking she is doing that to make the weapon illegal.
    It was inoperable because she said so after the fact?  And in the video, there is nothing validating that statement.  All parts that make it operable seem to be in place.  I didn’t miss her statement, there is just no proof validating it.  And once again, there is no “intent” written into the law.  It doesn’t matter what she was trying to do, it’s what she did that matters.  She created an SBR...plain and simple.
    There is nothing in the law that says “if you accidentally make an illegal firearm while trying to destroy it, it’s all good”

    Post edited by PJPOWER on
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,060
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, maybe if she had destroyed it before turning it into an SBR.  All she did in the video was turn it into an illegal firearm, not destroy it.  

    "I knew exactly what I was doing. The gun was inoperable before I cut it. And we took it completely apart. And we didn't put all that on video because I wanted to get the message to the students that I was standing with them," said Mallard.

    Virginia Beach Police confirmed Thursday afternoon the gun was in their possession and waiting to be picked up by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    http://wtkr.com/2018/03/08/i-knew-exactly-what-i-was-doing-congressional-candidate-saws-ar-15-apart/

    Seriously, common sense. This is a dumb story.
    No, she is displaying even more incompetence.  The gun was attached to the lower receiver in the video, so there is no proof of it being an inoperable firearm.  She is just in “cover your ass” mode now.  And once again, it doesn’t matter what she intended to do with it afterwards.  The law has no “intent” clause.  Legally, it is just like someone manufacturing meth and “intending” to destroy or give it to police afterwards.  If she was responsible, she would have recorded a video of how to legally destroy it...She can kiss her political career bye bye.
    I get what you're saying, but the meth analogy isn't working. Meth is never legal to begin with so even owning the supplies with the intent to manufacture meth is illegal before you even start. Intent does matter in that instance and it also matters when courts and LE agencies consider what action to take or how to charge a crime. If you wanted to argue that she should have made a disclaimer about how cutting off the barrel is illegal so the ignorant non gun owners understood they shouldn't just go around cutting down guns, then I can get behind that, but your intent (there's that word again :)) here seems more about sticking it to the anti-gun owners.

    Personally, I don't give a shit, but just my observation. I'm more concerned about the gun owner who makes a youtube video showing how much of a killing machine their AR is. That is idiotic.
    No, my intent is to hold politicians to the same legal standards as any other citizen.  The people trying to make laws should know the fucking laws in the first place.  I think the meth argument still holds pretty true. If you make meth and turn it into police, are they just going to say “thank you for your honesty kind sir”?  I think not.
    And if those gun owners you are talking about did something illegal in their video, I would call them out all the same.
    Comparing this woman to a drug manufacturer? That is insane. You only give a shit because because she is a democrat and the daily caller told you you should give a shit. 
    I haven’t even seen the daily caller story, but thanks for projecting.  The video was widely in circulation before any news stories about it were released.  But you are right, I don’t want this ignorant democrat in office.  She is probably a nice person, but she did commit a felony.
    Well I guess she is guilty of this heinous crime because you said so. I will be waiting in earnest for the results of this important investigation. I'm sure they have a whole task force dedicated to it.

    I love the idiot thread.
    My only point here is the same point the lawyer who was quoted in the story you linked was making:
      
    News 3 reached out to local attorney Eric Leckie and showed him the video. He said, "Sawing off the end of a rifle barrel would probably not destroy it. But if it shortened the barrel to under 16 inches, sawing off the end would make it immediately illegal and it`s a very bad idea," said Leckie.

    Somehow, pointing this out, turns one into a gun nut and an idiot, which I don't understand. I haven't seen any right-wing or left-wing articles about this story. I've only seen a couple MSM articles. So my observations are strictly from what was shown in the video. I saw the video before I even read a news story about it, and came to Leckie's conclusion on my own without biased sources for reference. I'm just a little astonished that pointing out a well-known firearms law has been classified as a right-wing, gun-nut talking point.
    My posts are not directed at you Jeff, and I understand the points you are making. I'm disputing the "she is guilty and should pay the price" posters.
    no one said she IS guilty. people are saying it should be looked into. 
    Your bro power has been calling her a felon this whole time. 

    my bro? umm....ok.

    no different than you insisting on her innocence when the only video footage suggests otherwise. 
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 3,938
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, maybe if she had destroyed it before turning it into an SBR.  All she did in the video was turn it into an illegal firearm, not destroy it.  

    "I knew exactly what I was doing. The gun was inoperable before I cut it. And we took it completely apart. And we didn't put all that on video because I wanted to get the message to the students that I was standing with them," said Mallard.

    Virginia Beach Police confirmed Thursday afternoon the gun was in their possession and waiting to be picked up by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    http://wtkr.com/2018/03/08/i-knew-exactly-what-i-was-doing-congressional-candidate-saws-ar-15-apart/

    Seriously, common sense. This is a dumb story.
    No, she is displaying even more incompetence.  The gun was attached to the lower receiver in the video, so there is no proof of it being an inoperable firearm.  She is just in “cover your ass” mode now.  And once again, it doesn’t matter what she intended to do with it afterwards.  The law has no “intent” clause.  Legally, it is just like someone manufacturing meth and “intending” to destroy or give it to police afterwards.  If she was responsible, she would have recorded a video of how to legally destroy it...She can kiss her political career bye bye.
    I get what you're saying, but the meth analogy isn't working. Meth is never legal to begin with so even owning the supplies with the intent to manufacture meth is illegal before you even start. Intent does matter in that instance and it also matters when courts and LE agencies consider what action to take or how to charge a crime. If you wanted to argue that she should have made a disclaimer about how cutting off the barrel is illegal so the ignorant non gun owners understood they shouldn't just go around cutting down guns, then I can get behind that, but your intent (there's that word again :)) here seems more about sticking it to the anti-gun owners.

    Personally, I don't give a shit, but just my observation. I'm more concerned about the gun owner who makes a youtube video showing how much of a killing machine their AR is. That is idiotic.
    No, my intent is to hold politicians to the same legal standards as any other citizen.  The people trying to make laws should know the fucking laws in the first place.  I think the meth argument still holds pretty true. If you make meth and turn it into police, are they just going to say “thank you for your honesty kind sir”?  I think not.
    And if those gun owners you are talking about did something illegal in their video, I would call them out all the same.
    Comparing this woman to a drug manufacturer? That is insane. You only give a shit because because she is a democrat and the daily caller told you you should give a shit. 
    I haven’t even seen the daily caller story, but thanks for projecting.  The video was widely in circulation before any news stories about it were released.  But you are right, I don’t want this ignorant democrat in office.  She is probably a nice person, but she did commit a felony.
    Well I guess she is guilty of this heinous crime because you said so. I will be waiting in earnest for the results of this important investigation. I'm sure they have a whole task force dedicated to it.

    I love the idiot thread.
    My only point here is the same point the lawyer who was quoted in the story you linked was making:
      
    News 3 reached out to local attorney Eric Leckie and showed him the video. He said, "Sawing off the end of a rifle barrel would probably not destroy it. But if it shortened the barrel to under 16 inches, sawing off the end would make it immediately illegal and it`s a very bad idea," said Leckie.

    Somehow, pointing this out, turns one into a gun nut and an idiot, which I don't understand. I haven't seen any right-wing or left-wing articles about this story. I've only seen a couple MSM articles. So my observations are strictly from what was shown in the video. I saw the video before I even read a news story about it, and came to Leckie's conclusion on my own without biased sources for reference. I'm just a little astonished that pointing out a well-known firearms law has been classified as a right-wing, gun-nut talking point.
    My posts are not directed at you Jeff, and I understand the points you are making. I'm disputing the "she is guilty and should pay the price" posters.
    no one said she IS guilty. people are saying it should be looked into. 
    Your bro power has been calling her a felon this whole time. 

    my bro? umm....ok.

    no different than you insisting on her innocence when the only video footage suggests otherwise. 
    We’re bros dude, don’t deny it! Lol
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 3,663
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    if Kellyanne Conway was caught with a bag of cocaine on her, and she tried to claim she found it and was on her way to turning into police, would you take her word for it? Whether she was telling the truth is irrelevant. would you believe her?

    I find it very interesting how quickly people are defending this woman. Isn't the law the law? Shouldn't our politicians be held to a standard of at LEAST not breaking the law, especially when it relates to proper handling and storage of a firearms?
    Again with the terrible drug analogies. 
    change "bag of cocaine" with "modified AR-15" then. 
    She wasn't caught with anything. 

    If she cut the barrel of the gun off and was later found in possession of the gun by police then came up with the "I was trying to destroy the gun" story then that analogy might make some sense. 

    fine. let's redo it. if Kellyanne posted the same video that this woman did, what would your HONEST reaction be? "no big deal"? "hey, she's destroying a gun! I think....". 

    do you not think this should at least be addressed? I mean, the potential for some kid watching that video and getting some bright idea.....
    The potential of some kid destroying a gun then turning into law enforcement? Why would I be worried about that? I would applaud that. If Donald Trump himself made that exact same video I would applaud him too.
    Again, you miss the fact that she did not destroy it.  She just made the barrel shorter.  It will still fire...
    She should have just given it to police to start with instead of committing a felony in the process of grandstanding.

    And you keep leaving out the whole story. The gun was inoperable before she cut the barrel, then they dismantled it and gave it to the police. That was the obvious plan all along, you are making this out to be something sinister because you don't agree with her politics. Nobody watching that video is thinking she is doing that to make the weapon illegal.
    It was inoperable because she said so after the fact?  And in the video, there is nothing validating that statement.  All parts that make it operable seem to be in place.  I didn’t miss her statement, there is just no proof validating it.  And once again, there is no “intent” written into the law.  It doesn’t matter what she was trying to do, it’s what she did that matters.  She created an SBR...plain and simple.
    There is nothing in the law that says “if you accidentally make an illegal firearm while trying to destroy it, it’s all good”

    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

    Argument from ignorance, also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance represents "a lack of contrary evidence") is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true.
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 15,333
    PJPOWER said:
    you don't get to break laws because your intentions were pure. 
    Has she been indicted as a result of evidence gathered during a law enforcement investigation and presented to a grand jury with an indictment specifying which laws were violated?
    has trump?
    Way more smoke there and a history of violating the law with indictments and guilty pleas among those close to him. I’m not sure you can claim the same in this instance. Apples and oranges. Team Trump Treason will be indicted.
    Video evidence of the crime itself is a lot of smoke if you ask me...
    Is shortening the barrel of an inoperable firearm a crime?
     
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,060
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    if Kellyanne Conway was caught with a bag of cocaine on her, and she tried to claim she found it and was on her way to turning into police, would you take her word for it? Whether she was telling the truth is irrelevant. would you believe her?

    I find it very interesting how quickly people are defending this woman. Isn't the law the law? Shouldn't our politicians be held to a standard of at LEAST not breaking the law, especially when it relates to proper handling and storage of a firearms?
    Again with the terrible drug analogies. 
    change "bag of cocaine" with "modified AR-15" then. 
    She wasn't caught with anything. 

    If she cut the barrel of the gun off and was later found in possession of the gun by police then came up with the "I was trying to destroy the gun" story then that analogy might make some sense. 

    fine. let's redo it. if Kellyanne posted the same video that this woman did, what would your HONEST reaction be? "no big deal"? "hey, she's destroying a gun! I think....". 

    do you not think this should at least be addressed? I mean, the potential for some kid watching that video and getting some bright idea.....
    The potential of some kid destroying a gun then turning into law enforcement? Why would I be worried about that? I would applaud that. If Donald Trump himself made that exact same video I would applaud him too.
    Again, you miss the fact that she did not destroy it.  She just made the barrel shorter.  It will still fire...
    She should have just given it to police to start with instead of committing a felony in the process of grandstanding.

    And you keep leaving out the whole story. The gun was inoperable before she cut the barrel, then they dismantled it and gave it to the police. That was the obvious plan all along, you are making this out to be something sinister because you don't agree with her politics. Nobody watching that video is thinking she is doing that to make the weapon illegal.
    how do you know the gun was inoperable before she cut the barrel?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,060
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, maybe if she had destroyed it before turning it into an SBR.  All she did in the video was turn it into an illegal firearm, not destroy it.  

    "I knew exactly what I was doing. The gun was inoperable before I cut it. And we took it completely apart. And we didn't put all that on video because I wanted to get the message to the students that I was standing with them," said Mallard.

    Virginia Beach Police confirmed Thursday afternoon the gun was in their possession and waiting to be picked up by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    http://wtkr.com/2018/03/08/i-knew-exactly-what-i-was-doing-congressional-candidate-saws-ar-15-apart/

    Seriously, common sense. This is a dumb story.
    No, she is displaying even more incompetence.  The gun was attached to the lower receiver in the video, so there is no proof of it being an inoperable firearm.  She is just in “cover your ass” mode now.  And once again, it doesn’t matter what she intended to do with it afterwards.  The law has no “intent” clause.  Legally, it is just like someone manufacturing meth and “intending” to destroy or give it to police afterwards.  If she was responsible, she would have recorded a video of how to legally destroy it...She can kiss her political career bye bye.
    I get what you're saying, but the meth analogy isn't working. Meth is never legal to begin with so even owning the supplies with the intent to manufacture meth is illegal before you even start. Intent does matter in that instance and it also matters when courts and LE agencies consider what action to take or how to charge a crime. If you wanted to argue that she should have made a disclaimer about how cutting off the barrel is illegal so the ignorant non gun owners understood they shouldn't just go around cutting down guns, then I can get behind that, but your intent (there's that word again :)) here seems more about sticking it to the anti-gun owners.

    Personally, I don't give a shit, but just my observation. I'm more concerned about the gun owner who makes a youtube video showing how much of a killing machine their AR is. That is idiotic.
    No, my intent is to hold politicians to the same legal standards as any other citizen.  The people trying to make laws should know the fucking laws in the first place.  I think the meth argument still holds pretty true. If you make meth and turn it into police, are they just going to say “thank you for your honesty kind sir”?  I think not.
    And if those gun owners you are talking about did something illegal in their video, I would call them out all the same.
    Comparing this woman to a drug manufacturer? That is insane. You only give a shit because because she is a democrat and the daily caller told you you should give a shit. 
    I haven’t even seen the daily caller story, but thanks for projecting.  The video was widely in circulation before any news stories about it were released.  But you are right, I don’t want this ignorant democrat in office.  She is probably a nice person, but she did commit a felony.
    Well I guess she is guilty of this heinous crime because you said so. I will be waiting in earnest for the results of this important investigation. I'm sure they have a whole task force dedicated to it.

    I love the idiot thread.
    My only point here is the same point the lawyer who was quoted in the story you linked was making:
      
    News 3 reached out to local attorney Eric Leckie and showed him the video. He said, "Sawing off the end of a rifle barrel would probably not destroy it. But if it shortened the barrel to under 16 inches, sawing off the end would make it immediately illegal and it`s a very bad idea," said Leckie.

    Somehow, pointing this out, turns one into a gun nut and an idiot, which I don't understand. I haven't seen any right-wing or left-wing articles about this story. I've only seen a couple MSM articles. So my observations are strictly from what was shown in the video. I saw the video before I even read a news story about it, and came to Leckie's conclusion on my own without biased sources for reference. I'm just a little astonished that pointing out a well-known firearms law has been classified as a right-wing, gun-nut talking point.
    My posts are not directed at you Jeff, and I understand the points you are making. I'm disputing the "she is guilty and should pay the price" posters.
    no one said she IS guilty. people are saying it should be looked into. 
    Your bro power has been calling her a felon this whole time. 

    my bro? umm....ok.

    no different than you insisting on her innocence when the only video footage suggests otherwise. 
    We’re bros dude, don’t deny it! Lol
    apparently. LOL
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,298
    edited March 9
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, maybe if she had destroyed it before turning it into an SBR.  All she did in the video was turn it into an illegal firearm, not destroy it.  

    "I knew exactly what I was doing. The gun was inoperable before I cut it. And we took it completely apart. And we didn't put all that on video because I wanted to get the message to the students that I was standing with them," said Mallard.

    Virginia Beach Police confirmed Thursday afternoon the gun was in their possession and waiting to be picked up by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    http://wtkr.com/2018/03/08/i-knew-exactly-what-i-was-doing-congressional-candidate-saws-ar-15-apart/

    Seriously, common sense. This is a dumb story.
    No, she is displaying even more incompetence.  The gun was attached to the lower receiver in the video, so there is no proof of it being an inoperable firearm.  She is just in “cover your ass” mode now.  And once again, it doesn’t matter what she intended to do with it afterwards.  The law has no “intent” clause.  Legally, it is just like someone manufacturing meth and “intending” to destroy or give it to police afterwards.  If she was responsible, she would have recorded a video of how to legally destroy it...She can kiss her political career bye bye.
    I get what you're saying, but the meth analogy isn't working. Meth is never legal to begin with so even owning the supplies with the intent to manufacture meth is illegal before you even start. Intent does matter in that instance and it also matters when courts and LE agencies consider what action to take or how to charge a crime. If you wanted to argue that she should have made a disclaimer about how cutting off the barrel is illegal so the ignorant non gun owners understood they shouldn't just go around cutting down guns, then I can get behind that, but your intent (there's that word again :)) here seems more about sticking it to the anti-gun owners.

    Personally, I don't give a shit, but just my observation. I'm more concerned about the gun owner who makes a youtube video showing how much of a killing machine their AR is. That is idiotic.
    No, my intent is to hold politicians to the same legal standards as any other citizen.  The people trying to make laws should know the fucking laws in the first place.  I think the meth argument still holds pretty true. If you make meth and turn it into police, are they just going to say “thank you for your honesty kind sir”?  I think not.
    And if those gun owners you are talking about did something illegal in their video, I would call them out all the same.
    Comparing this woman to a drug manufacturer? That is insane. You only give a shit because because she is a democrat and the daily caller told you you should give a shit. 
    I haven’t even seen the daily caller story, but thanks for projecting.  The video was widely in circulation before any news stories about it were released.  But you are right, I don’t want this ignorant democrat in office.  She is probably a nice person, but she did commit a felony.
    Well I guess she is guilty of this heinous crime because you said so. I will be waiting in earnest for the results of this important investigation. I'm sure they have a whole task force dedicated to it.

    I love the idiot thread.
    My only point here is the same point the lawyer who was quoted in the story you linked was making:
      
    News 3 reached out to local attorney Eric Leckie and showed him the video. He said, "Sawing off the end of a rifle barrel would probably not destroy it. But if it shortened the barrel to under 16 inches, sawing off the end would make it immediately illegal and it`s a very bad idea," said Leckie.

    Somehow, pointing this out, turns one into a gun nut and an idiot, which I don't understand. I haven't seen any right-wing or left-wing articles about this story. I've only seen a couple MSM articles. So my observations are strictly from what was shown in the video. I saw the video before I even read a news story about it, and came to Leckie's conclusion on my own without biased sources for reference. I'm just a little astonished that pointing out a well-known firearms law has been classified as a right-wing, gun-nut talking point.
    My posts are not directed at you Jeff, and I understand the points you are making. I'm disputing the "she is guilty and should pay the price" posters.
    no one said she IS guilty. people are saying it should be looked into. 
    Your bro power has been calling her a felon this whole time. 

    my bro? umm....ok.

    no different than you insisting on her innocence when the only video footage suggests otherwise. 
    No different eh? I guess the law isn't based on the presumption of innocence than. And I'm the one that doesn't know the law very well.


  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 3,938
    edited March 9
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    if Kellyanne Conway was caught with a bag of cocaine on her, and she tried to claim she found it and was on her way to turning into police, would you take her word for it? Whether she was telling the truth is irrelevant. would you believe her?

    I find it very interesting how quickly people are defending this woman. Isn't the law the law? Shouldn't our politicians be held to a standard of at LEAST not breaking the law, especially when it relates to proper handling and storage of a firearms?
    Again with the terrible drug analogies. 
    change "bag of cocaine" with "modified AR-15" then. 
    She wasn't caught with anything. 

    If she cut the barrel of the gun off and was later found in possession of the gun by police then came up with the "I was trying to destroy the gun" story then that analogy might make some sense. 

    fine. let's redo it. if Kellyanne posted the same video that this woman did, what would your HONEST reaction be? "no big deal"? "hey, she's destroying a gun! I think....". 

    do you not think this should at least be addressed? I mean, the potential for some kid watching that video and getting some bright idea.....
    The potential of some kid destroying a gun then turning into law enforcement? Why would I be worried about that? I would applaud that. If Donald Trump himself made that exact same video I would applaud him too.
    Again, you miss the fact that she did not destroy it.  She just made the barrel shorter.  It will still fire...
    She should have just given it to police to start with instead of committing a felony in the process of grandstanding.

    And you keep leaving out the whole story. The gun was inoperable before she cut the barrel, then they dismantled it and gave it to the police. That was the obvious plan all along, you are making this out to be something sinister because you don't agree with her politics. Nobody watching that video is thinking she is doing that to make the weapon illegal.
    It was inoperable because she said so after the fact?  And in the video, there is nothing validating that statement.  All parts that make it operable seem to be in place.  I didn’t miss her statement, there is just no proof validating it.  And once again, there is no “intent” written into the law.  It doesn’t matter what she was trying to do, it’s what she did that matters.  She created an SBR...plain and simple.
    There is nothing in the law that says “if you accidentally make an illegal firearm while trying to destroy it, it’s all good”

    Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

    Argument from ignorance, also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance represents "a lack of contrary evidence") is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true.
    So her statement has not been proven true or false, see how that works?  In other words, your statement holds no merit of truth  and mine doesn’t either regarding her statement regarding what happened before the video.  Cannot be validated.  But, the video itself displays evidence that the gun was not inoperable before she cut the barrel down.  The charging handle, lower receiver and stock are all in place.  

    Post edited by PJPOWER on
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 15,333
    Are there any firearms violations here?


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  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 3,938
    Are there any firearms violations here?


    I’m not sure, but there is a “whataboutism”.
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,060
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, maybe if she had destroyed it before turning it into an SBR.  All she did in the video was turn it into an illegal firearm, not destroy it.  

    "I knew exactly what I was doing. The gun was inoperable before I cut it. And we took it completely apart. And we didn't put all that on video because I wanted to get the message to the students that I was standing with them," said Mallard.

    Virginia Beach Police confirmed Thursday afternoon the gun was in their possession and waiting to be picked up by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    http://wtkr.com/2018/03/08/i-knew-exactly-what-i-was-doing-congressional-candidate-saws-ar-15-apart/

    Seriously, common sense. This is a dumb story.
    No, she is displaying even more incompetence.  The gun was attached to the lower receiver in the video, so there is no proof of it being an inoperable firearm.  She is just in “cover your ass” mode now.  And once again, it doesn’t matter what she intended to do with it afterwards.  The law has no “intent” clause.  Legally, it is just like someone manufacturing meth and “intending” to destroy or give it to police afterwards.  If she was responsible, she would have recorded a video of how to legally destroy it...She can kiss her political career bye bye.
    I get what you're saying, but the meth analogy isn't working. Meth is never legal to begin with so even owning the supplies with the intent to manufacture meth is illegal before you even start. Intent does matter in that instance and it also matters when courts and LE agencies consider what action to take or how to charge a crime. If you wanted to argue that she should have made a disclaimer about how cutting off the barrel is illegal so the ignorant non gun owners understood they shouldn't just go around cutting down guns, then I can get behind that, but your intent (there's that word again :)) here seems more about sticking it to the anti-gun owners.

    Personally, I don't give a shit, but just my observation. I'm more concerned about the gun owner who makes a youtube video showing how much of a killing machine their AR is. That is idiotic.
    No, my intent is to hold politicians to the same legal standards as any other citizen.  The people trying to make laws should know the fucking laws in the first place.  I think the meth argument still holds pretty true. If you make meth and turn it into police, are they just going to say “thank you for your honesty kind sir”?  I think not.
    And if those gun owners you are talking about did something illegal in their video, I would call them out all the same.
    Comparing this woman to a drug manufacturer? That is insane. You only give a shit because because she is a democrat and the daily caller told you you should give a shit. 
    I haven’t even seen the daily caller story, but thanks for projecting.  The video was widely in circulation before any news stories about it were released.  But you are right, I don’t want this ignorant democrat in office.  She is probably a nice person, but she did commit a felony.
    Well I guess she is guilty of this heinous crime because you said so. I will be waiting in earnest for the results of this important investigation. I'm sure they have a whole task force dedicated to it.

    I love the idiot thread.
    My only point here is the same point the lawyer who was quoted in the story you linked was making:
      
    News 3 reached out to local attorney Eric Leckie and showed him the video. He said, "Sawing off the end of a rifle barrel would probably not destroy it. But if it shortened the barrel to under 16 inches, sawing off the end would make it immediately illegal and it`s a very bad idea," said Leckie.

    Somehow, pointing this out, turns one into a gun nut and an idiot, which I don't understand. I haven't seen any right-wing or left-wing articles about this story. I've only seen a couple MSM articles. So my observations are strictly from what was shown in the video. I saw the video before I even read a news story about it, and came to Leckie's conclusion on my own without biased sources for reference. I'm just a little astonished that pointing out a well-known firearms law has been classified as a right-wing, gun-nut talking point.
    My posts are not directed at you Jeff, and I understand the points you are making. I'm disputing the "she is guilty and should pay the price" posters.
    no one said she IS guilty. people are saying it should be looked into. 
    Your bro power has been calling her a felon this whole time. 

    my bro? umm....ok.

    no different than you insisting on her innocence when the only video footage suggests otherwise. 
    No different eh? I guess the law isn't based on the presumption of innocence than. And I'm the one that doesn't know the law very well.


    she is PRESUMED innocent. you aren't presuming anything. you are presenting it as fact. dismissing the possibility of wrongdoing. 

    under your position of "well she didn't MEAN to!" no one would ever get arrested. 
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,298
    dignin said:
    PJPOWER said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    jeffbr said:
    dignin said:
    Common sense is gone if anyone thinks this woman should be penalized for destroying that gun. Idiot thread indeed.
    Well, I would agree in general and on the surface. But what you're saying is that it is OK to commit a crime as long as your intentions are good. That isn't how the rule of law works. She could have gone about this differently. She could have truly rendered the firearm inoperable to start with, and there would have been no issue. She could have ignorantly committed the federal offense privately, and taken the pieces to law enforcement, and it would be a non-issue. But she decided to publicly commit the crime and document it on video. If she'd simply cut the firearm in half this would be a non-issue. But she cut the barrel off. Anyone with a vague notion about gun laws knows that is a no-no. If she owned a firearm and was ignorant of one of the most basic laws, that is on her and she probably never should have possessed it. She may have cut the barrel off, and then proceeded to cut it into smaller pieces, but she still shortened the barrel of a functional firearm. Cut it in half first, and then cut those halves into smaller pieces. It may seem like a minor point, but again, publicly violating a well-known federal firearms law puts you in Trump-stupid territory.

    It seems you missed the part, “it was inoperable before I cut it.” Also, do you believe every gun owner knows all “basic” gun laws prior to or during gun ownership? 
    No evidence of that whatsoever ever in the video.  Looks like a fully functional ar-15 to me.  She is just saying that after the fact in a weak effort to cover her ass.  Anyways, it’s up to the ATF to decide now as literally thousands of people have already reported her.

    She didn't record it so it must not have happened.

    That's what you're going with?

    ...ok then...
    if Kellyanne Conway was caught with a bag of cocaine on her, and she tried to claim she found it and was on her way to turning into police, would you take her word for it? Whether she was telling the truth is irrelevant. would you believe her?

    I find it very interesting how quickly people are defending this woman. Isn't the law the law? Shouldn't our politicians be held to a standard of at LEAST not breaking the law, especially when it relates to proper handling and storage of a firearms?
    Again with the terrible drug analogies. 
    change "bag of cocaine" with "modified AR-15" then. 
    She wasn't caught with anything. 

    If she cut the barrel of the gun off and was later found in possession of the gun by police then came up with the "I was trying to destroy the gun" story then that analogy might make some sense. 

    fine. let's redo it. if Kellyanne posted the same video that this woman did, what would your HONEST reaction be? "no big deal"? "hey, she's destroying a gun! I think....". 

    do you not think this should at least be addressed? I mean, the potential for some kid watching that video and getting some bright idea.....
    The potential of some kid destroying a gun then turning into law enforcement? Why would I be worried about that? I would applaud that. If Donald Trump himself made that exact same video I would applaud him too.
    Again, you miss the fact that she did not destroy it.  She just made the barrel shorter.  It will still fire...
    She should have just given it to police to start with instead of committing a felony in the process of grandstanding.

    And you keep leaving out the whole story. The gun was inoperable before she cut the barrel, then they dismantled it and gave it to the police. That was the obvious plan all along, you are making this out to be something sinister because you don't agree with her politics. Nobody watching that video is thinking she is doing that to make the weapon illegal.
    how do you know the gun was inoperable before she cut the barrel?
    I don't. All I have to go on is her statement that is was, and I have no reason to not believe her. Do you know it was operable? 
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