Colored Unofficial Vinyl

ravillorias

Hi guys...

I'd like to know who the f**** is putting this stuff out... check ebay.fr

http://www.ebay.fr/sch/Vinyles-/1071/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=pearl+jam

A lot of unofficial colored reissues: , no code, yield, binaural, lost dogs, avocado... etc... !!

be aware that those are fake ones (in case you did not know already !)

2-feign-reluctance

Thread on this already - 'search' is your friend!

Zod

I think most people know about these already. They're obviously being issued in countries where copyright laws aren't as stringent

PJ_Soul

Who's putting it out? Some crime ring. There is huge money in counterfeiting. And just the money and equipment it takes to run a vinyl press (one of the biggest illegal manufacturers was recently raided in Germany, but there are many more), or the bribery it probably takes to get legit presses to make their illegal records in Europe tells us that the people behind these things aren't just music fans trying to help music fans, lol. They are likely large cirminal enterprises who do all sorts of illegal things, and only part of their crime rings involve illegal vinyl bootlegs.

And THAT'S why I'm against illegal bootlegs, and why everyone else should be too. We shouldn't feed crime rings with our money.

ckravitz

PJ_Soul said:

Who's putting it out? Some crime ring. There is huge money in counterfeiting. And just the money and equipment it takes to run a vinyl press (one of the biggest illegal manufacturers was recently raided in Germany, but there are many more), or the bribery it probably takes to get legit presses to make their illegal records in Europe tells us that the people behind these things aren't just music fans trying to help music fans, lol. They are likely large cirminal enterprises who do all sorts of illegal things, and only part of their crime rings involve illegal vinyl bootlegs.

And THAT'S why I'm against illegal bootlegs, and why everyone else should be too. We shouldn't feed crime rings with our money.

Sorry but we here in the US pay tax to the federal government so by definition are funding criminals! )

PJ_Soul

I'm just saying.... how would people who like to buy illegal boots feel if they knew the criminals who are responsible for their shitty coloured vinyl also happens to be responsible for child pornography or something? That is actually a fairly likely scenario.

Just something people might want to consider when buying these things.

WhatYouTaughtMe

ckravitz said:

PJ_Soul said:

Who's putting it out? Some crime ring. There is huge money in counterfeiting. And just the money and equipment it takes to run a vinyl press (one of the biggest illegal manufacturers was recently raided in Germany, but there are many more), or the bribery it probably takes to get legit presses to make their illegal records in Europe tells us that the people behind these things aren't just music fans trying to help music fans, lol. They are likely large cirminal enterprises who do all sorts of illegal things, and only part of their crime rings involve illegal vinyl bootlegs.

And THAT'S why I'm against illegal bootlegs, and why everyone else should be too. We shouldn't feed crime rings with our money.

Sorry but we here in the US pay tax to the federal government so by definition are funding criminals! )

Paying taxes isn't a choice. Completely different.

Zod

PJ_Soul said:

I'm just saying.... how would people who like to buy illegal boots feel if they knew the criminals who are responsible for their shitty coloured vinyl also happens to be responsible for child pornography or something? That is actually a fairly likely scenario.

Just something people might want to consider when buying these things.

Isn't that the same thing governments always say when they want to violate constitution privacy laws? lol It's a cheap argument.

PJ_Soul

Zod said:

PJ_Soul said:

I'm just saying.... how would people who like to buy illegal boots feel if they knew the criminals who are responsible for their shitty coloured vinyl also happens to be responsible for child pornography or something? That is actually a fairly likely scenario.

Just something people might want to consider when buying these things.

Isn't that the same thing governments always say when they want to violate constitution privacy laws? lol It's a cheap argument.

Trying not to willfully support criminal enterprises is a cheap argument?

I actually have no idea what you're trying to say here. No clue how you related what I said to the government violating constitutional rights.

RoleModelsinBlood31

Why does this argument always keep coming up. Vote with our wallet, and live and let live. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you like the fact that it's available for cheaper and easier to get than originals, buy it. Who cares.

And the criminal enterprises idea? Hahahaha whatever- we've all bought weed, we've all bought bootleg tapes and cd's back in the day. Those are all illegal too.

PJ_Soul

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Why does this argument always keep coming up. Vote with our wallet, and live and let live. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you like the fact that it's available for cheaper and easier to get than originals, buy it. Who cares.

And the criminal enterprises idea? Hahahaha whatever- we've all bought weed, we've all bought bootleg tapes and cd's back in the day. Those are all illegal too.

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but the ONLY law I break is buying weed (and a couple other drugs in my youth). From local neighborhood dealers who I know. I know they aren't a part of a massive criminal enterprise. The same cannot be said for illegal bootleg vinyl. Those aren't rinky-dink organizations doing that. Totally different deal.

And no, I haven't purposefully bought illegal bootlegs of physical media before either (I have been SCREWED OVER by the existence of illegal bootlegs a couple times though, despite being knowledgeable, so that's another big reason I am against illegal bootleg vinyl). So excuse me for having principles and thinking it's wrong to support criminal enterprise just for a record. But you're not going to make me feel about thinking this way. It's not even about it being merely illegal. At all. It's about the nature of the groups who do this kind of thing in particular. These aren't minor league criminals like your local neighborhood pot dealer or some dude selling bootleg CDs he burned on his home computer and sells in the high school parking lot. To me, that makes a big difference.

Patrick_Sea3

PJ_Soul said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Why does this argument always keep coming up. Vote with our wallet, and live and let live. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you like the fact that it's available for cheaper and easier to get than originals, buy it. Who cares.

And the criminal enterprises idea? Hahahaha whatever- we've all bought weed, we've all bought bootleg tapes and cd's back in the day. Those are all illegal too.

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but the ONLY law I break is buying weed (and a couple other drugs in my youth). From local neighborhood dealers who I know. I know they aren't a part of a massive criminal enterprise. The same cannot be said for illegal bootleg vinyl. Those aren't rinky-dink organizations doing that. Totally different deal.

And no, I haven't purposefully bought illegal bootlegs of physical media before either (I have been SCREWED OVER by the existence of illegal bootlegs a couple times though, despite being knowledgeable, so that's another big reason I am against illegal bootleg vinyl). So excuse me for having principles and thinking it's wrong to support criminal enterprise just for a record. But you're not going to make me feel about thinking this way. It's not even about it being merely illegal. At all. It's about the nature of the groups who do this kind of thing in particular. These aren't minor league criminals like your local neighborhood pot dealer or some dude selling bootleg CDs he burned on his home computer and sells in the high school parking lot. To me, that makes a big difference.

Painting the kettle black aren't we? Let's stop beating a dead horse here. Every record store I go into sells bootlegs, always have and always will

PJ_Soul

Painting the kettle black? I dunno.... If we're not allowed to consider things by degree, then I guess so, and I'm okay with that!

Zod

I rank copyright violation pretty low down my degree list. BTW in regards to the pot argument, where do you think your local dealer gets it? Someone has to grow it. Follow the weed back far enough and god knows what else your funding However if the government legalized and taxed it, then all would be good. Just like if PJ put out their back catalog on vinyl.

2-feign-reluctance

Zod said:

I rank copyright violation pretty low down my degree list. BTW in regards to the pot argument, where do you think your local dealer gets it? Someone has to grow it. Follow the weed back far enough and god knows what else your funding However if the government legalized and taxed it, then all would be good. Just like if PJ put out their back catalog on vinyl.

Kneel to Zod! You are making a hell of a lot of good points on here lately.

PJ_Soul

Zod said:

I rank copyright violation pretty low down my degree list. BTW in regards to the pot argument, where do you think your local dealer gets it? Someone has to grow it. Follow the weed back far enough and god knows what else your funding However if the government legalized and taxed it, then all would be good. Just like if PJ put out their back catalog on vinyl.

My issue really isn't with copyright violation though, as my previous posts demonstrate. It's about who is involved in doing it, i.e. where the money spent on bootlegs goes specifically.
But yeah, anyone who isn't a hypocrite is a fucking liar too. We all pick our battles, right? That said, it's pretty easy to know where your weed comes from, or at least it is for me. Not sure about everyone else.

ckravitz

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

ckravitz said:

PJ_Soul said:

Who's putting it out? Some crime ring. There is huge money in counterfeiting. And just the money and equipment it takes to run a vinyl press (one of the biggest illegal manufacturers was recently raided in Germany, but there are many more), or the bribery it probably takes to get legit presses to make their illegal records in Europe tells us that the people behind these things aren't just music fans trying to help music fans, lol. They are likely large cirminal enterprises who do all sorts of illegal things, and only part of their crime rings involve illegal vinyl bootlegs.

And THAT'S why I'm against illegal bootlegs, and why everyone else should be too. We shouldn't feed crime rings with our money.

Sorry but we here in the US pay tax to the federal government so by definition are funding criminals! )

Paying taxes isn't a choice. Completely different.

Haha, yeah I know, it was clearly a joke.

Zod

PJ_Soul said:

Zod said:

I rank copyright violation pretty low down my degree list. BTW in regards to the pot argument, where do you think your local dealer gets it? Someone has to grow it. Follow the weed back far enough and god knows what else your funding However if the government legalized and taxed it, then all would be good. Just like if PJ put out their back catalog on vinyl.

My issue really isn't with copyright violation though, as my previous posts demonstrate. It's about who is involved in doing it, i.e. where the money spent on bootlegs goes specifically.
But yeah, anyone who isn't a hypocrite is a fucking liar too. We all pick our battles, right? That said, it's pretty easy to know where your weed comes from, or at least it is for me. Not sure about everyone else.

I live in B.C.. British Columbia is a prime spot for growing. It could pretty much come from anywhere. There's all sorts of organized crime here that grows it (Hells' Angels, gangs, etc..). You might know the dealer, but you don't know the source. I think of it like the TV show The Wire. You use the pawns to do the dirty work. They're the ones out there and most exposed (and most likely to get busted). Seperate yourself from the grunts with middlemen so the grunts don't know who you are. They get nabbed it's harder for you to get busted. I think it was a pretty rare thing to find someone that was the source of their own product.

PJ_Soul

Zod said:

PJ_Soul said:

Zod said:

I rank copyright violation pretty low down my degree list. BTW in regards to the pot argument, where do you think your local dealer gets it? Someone has to grow it. Follow the weed back far enough and god knows what else your funding However if the government legalized and taxed it, then all would be good. Just like if PJ put out their back catalog on vinyl.

My issue really isn't with copyright violation though, as my previous posts demonstrate. It's about who is involved in doing it, i.e. where the money spent on bootlegs goes specifically.
But yeah, anyone who isn't a hypocrite is a fucking liar too. We all pick our battles, right? That said, it's pretty easy to know where your weed comes from, or at least it is for me. Not sure about everyone else.

I live in B.C.. British Columbia is a prime spot for growing. It could pretty much come from anywhere. There's all sorts of organized crime here that grows it (Hells' Angels, gangs, etc..). You might know the dealer, but you don't know the source. I think of it like the TV show The Wire. You use the pawns to do the dirty work. They're the ones out there and most exposed (and most likely to get busted). Seperate yourself from the grunts with middlemen so the grunts don't know who you are. They get nabbed it's harder for you to get busted. I think it was a pretty rare thing to find someone that was the source of their own product.

I know, I'm from BC too and know all there is to know about the industry (I worked on a documentary about it before). But I personally DO know where my weed comes from. I don't mean to say that everyone does. I'm sure most people don't. And there was a time when I realized that my weed was actually being sold at the street level by Hell's Angels (I went in to their "store" and the guy weighing the stuff had been shot the night before and had blood leaking through his home-made bandages, and I was all, "wft happened to you?!" and he went off about it... yikes. So I never went back there again. That it was Hell's Angels selling it made it a non-option for me (aside from the fact that it sketched me out just be in the same room as them).
At any rate, and again, everyone is a hypocrite and chooses their battles. I am comfortable with my weed source. I am not comfortable about the source of illegal bootlegged vinyl from Europe. It doesn't help that I also believe that weed SHOULD be legal, but I don't think that bootlegging ever should be. That makes a big difference in my outlook.

Nami

speaking of weed... you guys see this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRBAZJ4lF0U&app=desktop
too funny

Zod

PJ_Soul said:

At any rate, and again, everyone is a hypocrite and chooses their battles. I am comfortable with my weed source. I am not comfortable about the source of illegal bootlegged vinyl from Europe. It doesn't help that I also believe that weed SHOULD be legal, but I don't think that bootlegging ever should be. That makes a big difference in my outlook.

Yah... I'm less sympathetic to bootlegging when it occurs in cases where the copyright owner isn't selling the product. In regards to what it financial supports, I definitely turn a blind eye. My answer (just like with weed) is to combat it by selling a quality legal product. That's my own personal take though. It's a pretty well known thing that when something can't be purchased legally, a black market is created for it. Thus Pearl Jam's inactivity on the Vinyl front is creating a black market for it. I'm not sure who is more guilty, those that are craving for vinyl and supporting the black market or the band for creating a situation where a black market occurs

It's like do we blame weed smokers for the negative impacts of the black market for weed, or do we blame the government for making it illegal?

jeffbr

Zod said:

PJ_Soul said:

At any rate, and again, everyone is a hypocrite and chooses their battles. I am comfortable with my weed source. I am not comfortable about the source of illegal bootlegged vinyl from Europe. It doesn't help that I also believe that weed SHOULD be legal, but I don't think that bootlegging ever should be. That makes a big difference in my outlook.

Yah... I'm less sympathetic to bootlegging when it occurs in cases where the copyright owner isn't selling the product. In regards to what it financial supports, I definitely turn a blind eye. My answer (just like with weed) is to combat it by selling a quality legal product. That's my own personal take though. It's a pretty well known thing that when something can't be purchased legally, a black market is created for it. Thus Pearl Jam's inactivity on the Vinyl front is creating a black market for it. I'm not sure who is more guilty, those that are craving for vinyl and supporting the black market or the band for creating a situation where a black market occurs

It's like do we blame weed smokers for the negative impacts of the black market for weed, or do we blame the government for making it illegal?

This perfectly sums up my view. I would love to be able to purchase PJ vinyl and put $$ into PJ's hands. I'm not interested in spending hundreds for used copies on the secondary market (where PJ won't get any $$ anyway). If I can get a new, legit copy at a normal price I'd do that first. If I can't, I'll look for the next cheapest option. If the band or the label has created the scarcity, they created the impetus for the black market as well. If they want the black market to go away they can easily do so by removing the scarcity (ie filling the retail channels with new stock @ standard pricing). Simple financial decision for me based on market conditions created by the band and label.

Patrick_Sea3

So I have both the original No Code and the bootleg No Code, and honestly they sound the same, both have surface noise not that great, the original is a "bit" better but if I really wanted a copy and couldn't afford the original I would go with the bootleg until they reissue it. And to the anti-bootleggers, you do know if they reissue it, everyone including me would buy the reissue as well. Even though I have the original, the white bootleg....

Leezestarr313

We just need more reissues.
How about a nice white wine copy of the Benaroya Hall?

Patrick_Sea3

Just received the Lost Dogs "Unofficial" copy on white vinyl, and the quality is actually really good, the other ones the jackets not so great, etc, You could tell they were bootlegs. But this one whoever made it really stepped it up...

Zod

patrickwieczore said:

So I have both the original No Code and the bootleg No Code, and honestly they sound the same, both have surface noise not that great, the original is a "bit" better but if I really wanted a copy and couldn't afford the original I would go with the bootleg until they reissue it. And to the anti-bootleggers, you do know if they reissue it, everyone including me would buy the reissue as well. Even though I have the original, the white bootleg....

You have to wonder how the bootleggers do it. If you were smart and wanted to put out a decent product you spend a few hundred bucks to buy a sealed original off ebay, and then clone that as the master? Theoretically if something is already released on vinyl you should be able to find a sealed or near mint one somewhere. You'll easily make back that money selling the bootlegs. I guess It's like official modern releases. Some people are lazy and source from the CD, and some people go the distance and use a better master

PJ_Soul

patrickwieczore said:

So I have both the original No Code and the bootleg No Code, and honestly they sound the same, both have surface noise not that great, the original is a "bit" better but if I really wanted a copy and couldn't afford the original I would go with the bootleg until they reissue it. And to the anti-bootleggers, you do know if they reissue it, everyone including me would buy the reissue as well. Even though I have the original, the white bootleg....

I'm just wondering why you have surface noise on the original. Mine doesn't have any surface noise at all. Could it be that your original is just really used sounding or even defective, and the boot is really shitty sounding?

Dr. Delight

No surface noise on my OG. Check your lp or your needle.

RoleModelsinBlood31

PJ_Soul said:

patrickwieczore said:

So I have both the original No Code and the bootleg No Code, and honestly they sound the same, both have surface noise not that great, the original is a "bit" better but if I really wanted a copy and couldn't afford the original I would go with the bootleg until they reissue it. And to the anti-bootleggers, you do know if they reissue it, everyone including me would buy the reissue as well. Even though I have the original, the white bootleg....

I'm just wondering why you have surface noise on the original. Mine doesn't have any surface noise at all. Could it be that your original is just really used sounding or even defective, and the boot is really shitty sounding?

Nah, it's just that yours is better than everyone else's!

PJ_Soul

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

PJ_Soul said:

patrickwieczore said:

So I have both the original No Code and the bootleg No Code, and honestly they sound the same, both have surface noise not that great, the original is a "bit" better but if I really wanted a copy and couldn't afford the original I would go with the bootleg until they reissue it. And to the anti-bootleggers, you do know if they reissue it, everyone including me would buy the reissue as well. Even though I have the original, the white bootleg....

I'm just wondering why you have surface noise on the original. Mine doesn't have any surface noise at all. Could it be that your original is just really used sounding or even defective, and the boot is really shitty sounding?

Nah, it's just that yours is better than everyone else's!

Gee, that must be it!

(no seriously... pretty sure not everyone has a No Code that has surface noise. I've actually never seen anyone make that comment about it until today).

Abe Froman

PJ_Soul said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

PJ_Soul said:

patrickwieczore said:

So I have both the original No Code and the bootleg No Code, and honestly they sound the same, both have surface noise not that great, the original is a "bit" better but if I really wanted a copy and couldn't afford the original I would go with the bootleg until they reissue it. And to the anti-bootleggers, you do know if they reissue it, everyone including me would buy the reissue as well. Even though I have the original, the white bootleg....

I'm just wondering why you have surface noise on the original. Mine doesn't have any surface noise at all. Could it be that your original is just really used sounding or even defective, and the boot is really shitty sounding?

Nah, it's just that yours is better than everyone else's!

Gee, that must be it!

(no seriously... pretty sure not everyone has a No Code that has surface noise. I've actually never seen anyone make that comment about it until today).

I have original No Code and have played it a LOT of fucking times. No surface noise at all. Ive never heard a bootleg copy so I can't comment on what they sound like.