I have a problem with Lukin

Theia

I'm probably going to reget this, but..............

So, half the song deals with a stalker issue, right? A person with some sort of mental issue or chemical imbalance, as stated by Eddie in an interview I once read. So, for me, when I hear the lyrics, I think of some poor person that suffered or is still suffering from mental illness. It makes me sad and I feel the song is taunting and disrespectful.
I understand how frightening it can be having someone, who is clearly unstable, stalk and perhaps threaten you, so I understand why the song was written. I, personally, had someone stalking me for almost two years (although he was not so much as frightening as he was annoying!) and it almost drove me mad! But I don't want to be constantly reminded of this situation and I certainly wouldn't want that person constantly reminded of how they fucked up.
Mental Illness deserves respect from society just as other diseases and illnesses already do.

But, maybe that's why the song is sung so fast. So no one dwells on the issue.
Maybe I'm just too sensitive.

Ok, now it's time for you all to jump all over my ass.

xhausted1

I think we are all more sensitive to mental issues now, than in the past.

JimmyV

I just don't like the song.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

JimmyV said:

I just don't like the song.

I consider it an intro to Not For You.

PJ_Soul

I always have and always will think of it as a song about Eddie finding solace with friends, relief from pressures, and being able to blow off some steam with friends even during a time when he was scared shitless about someone who he genuinely thought might murder him. It's a very positive song in the end, for me. One about enduring crazy shit and appreciating the simple pleasures even when everything is fucked up, including that lunatic who was making his life miserable. He says that Lukin's is where he knows life has worth... he was in a dark place, in a world that made him feel cynical (or at least that's how it must have felt sometimes judging from the lyrics) and found a way out of it or a safe place from it. That's what the song is about.

When you feel like someone is out to kill you and/or ruin your life, literally, let me know if you still feel like taking a few jabs, or really only stating the facts of a fucked situation, while you're also just trying to seek normalcy, is out of line. I'm not sure, but it seems a bit like your empathy is misplaced, or at least not evenly distributed. I have also been stalked, and in a very threatening way - I felt like I was in real danger - for an extended period of time, with no real help from authorities... I really can't give a shit if that dude thinks I'm pissed about it. I don't even think he was mentally ill. I just think he was a massive, evil creep who invaded my life. And that's now, 20 years later or so. Imagine how I felt while it was actually happening. Fuck that guy. I actually wish there were a song I wrote about him and how he messed with me and had me scared out of my mind and constantly paranoid for all those months and that he had to listen to it everyday for the rest of his life and feel shitty about it.

Eddie's a man, not a saint. He's allowed to be angry about someone threatening his life and ramming a truck into his house and all that shit. We know it was really bad, and pro ably don't even know the half of it. But more importantly, he should be allowed to continue singing a song about how he found some peace during a tough time theough the company and protection and empathy of friends. (Sorry if I sound aggressive or anything.... I'm just a bit sensitive about this one).

Theia

I agree with you, PJ_ Soul, none of us are saints. And Eddie certainly has the right to sing
any song he wishes. And it sounds like you had a horrible, frightening experience also.
I also see where you are coming from on the underlying message of the song, which is finding solace in a somtimes crazy, fucked up world with some crazy, fucked people.

I'm sorry though. I still have empathy for the "bad guy" here, because of the mental illness and I just don't like the song.
Maybe, with me, the issue is about forgiveness or just about letting it go.

oftenreading

Do we even know if the stalker had a mental illness or is that just supposition? Not every stalker does; in fact, a significant proportion do not. I don't know enough about the details of the stalking, and would be wary of believing media reports or "diagnoses" anyway. I like what PJ_Soul has said about seeing the focus of the song more on finding a safe harbour with friends, rather than on demonizing the mentally ill.

And on a related topic, I really have a problem with the current media practice of assuming that everyone who commits a public violent act must have a mental illness. I think unfortunately the media is guiding public opinion back to a time when the assumption was that the mentally ill are unpredictable and dangerous. By far the majority of violence is committed by people without mental illness, and those with serious mental illness are far more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators. Even in instances where someone has committed violence and has a mental illness we shouldn't assume the mental illness is to blame; it may be an unrelated co-occurrence.

Usually in these situations someone says "well, they must be crazy to act like that". Its actually a lot more nuanced than that.

tempo_n_groove

One of my favorite PJ songs ever.

OP,

Have you ever considered that Betterman is about an abusive relationship and it's now a crowd favorite and a huge sing a long?

Sometimes you can look at it as just a song and don't have to be PC on everything or be sensitive about every little thing? It's good to have a voice and an opinion though, and I actually never thought about it in that way before(Lukin). So thanks for that.

apirk72

“Vedder had a stalker chick that would come by his house that was freaking him out. He would start to avoid his house after a while, so he would just come by my place. Vedder’d come over and we’d sit ‘round the kitchen and drink and stuff. He would talk about his stalker problem a little bit, but I would just blow it off. It was just drunken talk, throwing darts, having fun. There’d be other people there, sometimes four or five of us. Just me and Eddie and our wives and mutual friends like [then Mudhoney manager] Bob Whittaker. The Pearl Jam song ‘Lukin’ is about how my kitchen’s a sanctuary for him. Also, I was giving him shit about all their songs being too long. That inspired him to make ‘Lukin’ a one-minute song. I’ve always flipped him shit. Never let him be the rock star that he is.”
- Matt Lukin

Last-12-Exit

I like lukin.

2-feign-reluctance

Theia said:

I'm probably going to reget this, but..............

So, half the song deals with a stalker issue, right? A person with some sort of mental issue or chemical imbalance, as stated by Eddie in an interview I once read. So, for me, when I hear the lyrics, I think of some poor person that suffered or is still suffering from mental illness. It makes me sad and I feel the song is taunting and disrespectful.
I understand how frightening it can be having someone, who is clearly unstable, stalk and perhaps threaten you, so I understand why the song was written. I, personally, had someone stalking me for almost two years (although he was not so much as frightening as he was annoying!) and it almost drove me mad! But I don't want to be constantly reminded of this situation and I certainly wouldn't want that person constantly reminded of how they fucked up.
Mental Illness deserves respect from society just as other diseases and illnesses already do.

But, maybe that's why the song is sung so fast. So no one dwells on the issue.
Maybe I'm just too sensitive.

Ok, now it's time for you all to jump all over my ass.

Hey, its cool. I get it. I don't like Foxy Mop because of my work in mental health with children.

TheLuckyOnes

i love lukin.
So direct; it's like newspaper reporting his own life at the time. It's a great little adrenaline shot, musically.

Mental Illness isn't something to take lightly from either side of the fence. People need support to get thru these things…. That being said, when lives are being threatened, i'm going to side with the victims, not the attacker. I've seen a Lukin type situation close up; it's scary beyond words. I'm a "live and let live", anti-violence, anti-gun, peaceful guy. But that would change in a second if someone with no control over their brain decides to threaten my home and family. And that's the kind of person that's labeled as "sick" in Lukin; someone with literally no control over their brain. Not a really intense fan; a really intense fan with no reason or pause.

When i stop to think about it, i often wonder how any celebrities leave the house. Even celebrities i find obnoxious have my heartfelt sympathy….No one deserves to be terrorized.

cheers

hedonist

Good post, TheLuckyOnes. I like your description in the second line up there.

And very interesting thread, interesting takes.

I dig this version, which strikes me as somewhat introspective vs...that adrenaline previously mentioned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRRwTPiNsGc

EnterThanman

Ed's an artist. He has to be able to honestly sing about things that happen in his life. I imagine having multiple stalkers, one of which drove their car into your house, would be a pretty scary and traumatic experience that you'd want to write, sing, and scream really fast about. I'm sure it's theraputic.
I love this song for how it sounds, but also how visceral and direct it is in addressing a topic that I'm sure weighed heavily on Ed.
It's not disrespectful to mental illness as a whole, but to one person who made his life feel threatened; something I actually see as being pretty brave to write about and put out for public consumption.

whofeelslikeadrank

Theia said:

I don't have a problem with Lukin

i fixed that for you, no ass jumping necessary

whispering hands

oftenreading said:

Do we even know if the stalker had a mental illness or is that just supposition? Not every stalker does; in fact, a significant proportion do not. I don't know enough about the details of the stalking, and would be wary of believing media reports or "diagnoses" anyway. I like what PJ_Soul has said about seeing the focus of the song more on finding a safe harbour with friends, rather than on demonizing the mentally ill.

And on a related topic, I really have a problem with the current media practice of assuming that everyone who commits a public violent act must have a mental illness. I think unfortunately the media is guiding public opinion back to a time when the assumption was that the mentally ill are unpredictable and dangerous. By far the majority of violence is committed by people without mental illness, and those with serious mental illness are far more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators. Even in instances where someone has committed violence and has a mental illness we shouldn't assume the mental illness is to blame; it may be an unrelated co-occurrence.

Usually in these situations someone says "well, they must be crazy to act like that". Its actually a lot more nuanced than that.

Yes, it was reported that she was Bi-Polar, and hadn't been on meds in over a year.
Being Bi-Polar myself... I can tell you, she was dangerous.. This isn't some nice sweet mental illness where you just good about causing no harm. Like Schizophrenia, if left untreated, and not stabilized, it can bevery dangerous! So I honestly think he had every right to be frightened.. That lady honestly brought all that kn herself, by refusing help as offered. I thank GOD everyday I have meds to keep me straightened out.. Otherwise I could be just like that!

Just my piece.

oftenreading

whispering hands said:

oftenreading said:

Do we even know if the stalker had a mental illness or is that just supposition? Not every stalker does; in fact, a significant proportion do not. I don't know enough about the details of the stalking, and would be wary of believing media reports or "diagnoses" anyway. I like what PJ_Soul has said about seeing the focus of the song more on finding a safe harbour with friends, rather than on demonizing the mentally ill.

And on a related topic, I really have a problem with the current media practice of assuming that everyone who commits a public violent act must have a mental illness. I think unfortunately the media is guiding public opinion back to a time when the assumption was that the mentally ill are unpredictable and dangerous. By far the majority of violence is committed by people without mental illness, and those with serious mental illness are far more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators. Even in instances where someone has committed violence and has a mental illness we shouldn't assume the mental illness is to blame; it may be an unrelated co-occurrence.

Usually in these situations someone says "well, they must be crazy to act like that". Its actually a lot more nuanced than that.

Yes, it was reported that she was Bi-Polar, and hadn't been on meds in over a year.
Being Bi-Polar myself... I can tell you, she was dangerous.. This isn't some nice sweet mental illness where you just good about causing no harm. Like Schizophrenia, if left untreated, and not stabilized, it can bevery dangerous! So I honestly think he had every right to be frightened.. That lady honestly brought all that kn herself, by refusing help as offered. I thank GOD everyday I have meds to keep me straightened out.. Otherwise I could be just like that!

Just my piece.

Oh certainly, there's no question that bipolar and schizophrenia can be really devastating, mostly for the person experiencing it but also for their families, friends, and even strangers. I just don't like the automatic media assumption that individuals with mental illness are dangerous, or (even worse, in my opinion) that any dangerous individual must be mentally ill.

callen

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JimmyV said:

I just don't like the song.

I consider it an intro to Not For You.

Exactly.

Last-12-Exit

Just out of curiosity, do you like the song state of love and trust?

RoleModelsinBlood31

At least if you have a problem with Lukin it's only like a minute long. Be glad you don't have a problem with rvm or some shit.

whispering hands

oftenreading said:

whispering hands said:

oftenreading said:

Do we even know if the stalker had a mental illness or is that just supposition? Not every stalker does; in fact, a significant proportion do not. I don't know enough about the details of the stalking, and would be wary of believing media reports or "diagnoses" anyway. I like what PJ_Soul has said about seeing the focus of the song more on finding a safe harbour with friends, rather than on demonizing the mentally ill.

And on a related topic, I really have a problem with the current media practice of assuming that everyone who commits a public violent act must have a mental illness. I think unfortunately the media is guiding public opinion back to a time when the assumption was that the mentally ill are unpredictable and dangerous. By far the majority of violence is committed by people without mental illness, and those with serious mental illness are far more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators. Even in instances where someone has committed violence and has a mental illness we shouldn't assume the mental illness is to blame; it may be an unrelated co-occurrence.

Usually in these situations someone says "well, they must be crazy to act like that". Its actually a lot more nuanced than that.

Yes, it was reported that she was Bi-Polar, and hadn't been on meds in over a year.
Being Bi-Polar myself... I can tell you, she was dangerous.. This isn't some nice sweet mental illness where you just good about causing no harm. Like Schizophrenia, if left untreated, and not stabilized, it can bevery dangerous! So I honestly think he had every right to be frightened.. That lady honestly brought all that kn herself, by refusing help as offered. I thank GOD everyday I have meds to keep me straightened out.. Otherwise I could be just like that!

Just my piece.

Oh certainly, there's no question that bipolar and schizophrenia can be really devastating, mostly for the person experiencing it but also for their families, friends, and even strangers. I just don't like the automatic media assumption that individuals with mental illness are dangerous, or (even worse, in my opinion) that any dangerous individual must be mentally ill.

I agree with the assumption thing.. I was simply trying to point out, that the lady kinda deserves to have the song written about her.. She had a choice.. She chose crazy.. I also remember something in that report that Ed and Beth both agreed that no charges would be made so
Long as she agreed to get help..that was really cool, considering, had this this happened just a year sooner, she'd have crashed through the front foyer of the house! So she kind if deserved the song.. Just my opinion.

JWPearl

oftenreading said:

whispering hands said:

oftenreading said:

Do we even know if the stalker had a mental illness or is that just supposition? Not every stalker does; in fact, a significant proportion do not. I don't know enough about the details of the stalking, and would be wary of believing media reports or "diagnoses" anyway. I like what PJ_Soul has said about seeing the focus of the song more on finding a safe harbour with friends, rather than on demonizing the mentally ill.

And on a related topic, I really have a problem with the current media practice of assuming that everyone who commits a public violent act must have a mental illness. I think unfortunately the media is guiding public opinion back to a time when the assumption was that the mentally ill are unpredictable and dangerous. By far the majority of violence is committed by people without mental illness, and those with serious mental illness are far more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators. Even in instances where someone has committed violence and has a mental illness we shouldn't assume the mental illness is to blame; it may be an unrelated co-occurrence.

Usually in these situations someone says "well, they must be crazy to act like that". Its actually a lot more nuanced than that.

Yes, it was reported that she was Bi-Polar, and hadn't been on meds in over a year.
Being Bi-Polar myself... I can tell you, she was dangerous.. This isn't some nice sweet mental illness where you just good about causing no harm. Like Schizophrenia, if left untreated, and not stabilized, it can bevery dangerous! So I honestly think he had every right to be frightened.. That lady honestly brought all that kn herself, by refusing help as offered. I thank GOD everyday I have meds to keep me straightened out.. Otherwise I could be just like that!

Just my piece.

Oh certainly, there's no question that bipolar and schizophrenia can be really devastating, mostly for the person experiencing it but also for their families, friends, and even strangers. I just don't like the automatic media assumption that individuals with mental illness are dangerous, or (even worse, in my opinion) that any dangerous individual must be mentally ill.

there's nothing worse than everything you know turn negative.,..,...,....,....., in your thoughts because of sickness, and the more you know the worse it piles up,if you know too much the cure becomes almost impossible thankfully medication stops some of the craziness but not the scars, but believe it or not there will be a cure and one day i'll be back to normal...