Police abuse

1356793

Comments

  • fifefife Posts: 3,036
    unsung said:

    A good cop that ignores the behavior of the bad cops is just as bad if not worse.

    thats a nice slogan. what does that mean to you? do you mean all cops are bad?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,725
    It's pretty self explanatory. If you can't figure out the meaning go get a dictionary.
  • fifefife Posts: 3,036
    unsung said:

    It's pretty self explanatory. If you can't figure out the meaning go get a dictionary.

    so who defines bad cop. lets say that a cop has been great all the time and then makes a mistake one day. is that a bad cop?

    I actually do own a dictionary but I didn't ask you what the word meant, i ask you what you meant by them.
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 5,443
    Here's an interesting and relevant article about cops and dogs:
    http://reason.com/archives/2014/08/06/its-time-for-cops-to-stop-shooting-dogs

    "If the U.S. were overrun by dangerous dogs, you would think we’d hear a lot more about a biting epidemic. Yet postal workers, meter readers and pizza deliverymen—among others—all manage to do their jobs without either getting maimed by pets or killing them. It seems awfully curious that police officers seem to be the only ones who face such a stark either/or."
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 8,800
    power. Those who seek it dont deserve it! Doesnt need clarified further. Police serve 90% of the time and protect 10%. Even cops who dont abuse their power are hypocrits when they issue citations for marijuana use, speeding, and even drunk driving often.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • fifefife Posts: 3,036
    jeffbr said:

    Here's an interesting and relevant article about cops and dogs:
    http://reason.com/archives/2014/08/06/its-time-for-cops-to-stop-shooting-dogs

    "If the U.S. were overrun by dangerous dogs, you would think we’d hear a lot more about a biting epidemic. Yet postal workers, meter readers and pizza deliverymen—among others—all manage to do their jobs without either getting maimed by pets or killing them. It seems awfully curious that police officers seem to be the only ones who face such a stark either/or."

    thanks for the story. it was interesting. it wasn't a well written story bit interesting.
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 5,443
    fife said:

    jeffbr said:

    Here's an interesting and relevant article about cops and dogs:
    http://reason.com/archives/2014/08/06/its-time-for-cops-to-stop-shooting-dogs

    "If the U.S. were overrun by dangerous dogs, you would think we’d hear a lot more about a biting epidemic. Yet postal workers, meter readers and pizza deliverymen—among others—all manage to do their jobs without either getting maimed by pets or killing them. It seems awfully curious that police officers seem to be the only ones who face such a stark either/or."

    thanks for the story. it was interesting. it wasn't a well written story bit interesting.
    Lol. I agree with the "wasn't a well written story". Almost didn't post the link because of that. But some good points were made.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • fifefife Posts: 3,036
    rgambs said:

    power. Those who seek it dont deserve it! Doesnt need clarified further. Police serve 90% of the time and protect 10%. Even cops who dont abuse their power are hypocrits when they issue citations for marijuana use, speeding, and even drunk driving often.

    why are they hypocrites for giving citations for speeding, marijuana use and drunk driving?

    can you give me examples of how police "serve 90% of the time and protect 10%"?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 8,800
    because nearly all of them use substances more dangerous than marijuana (alcohol and pharmaceuticals), they ALL speed, and they nearly all drive or have driven under the influence. If you dont agree i would invite you to experience the real world for a change. I have no facts and figures, I dont need them, i live in reality where its obvious that most of police man-hours go toward enforcing traffic laws for profit.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 8,800
    we need much stricter controls for both the hiring and supervising of civil servants who are given such encompassing powers
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 5,443
    rgambs said:

    I have no facts and figures, I dont need them, i live in reality where its obvious that most of police man-hours go toward enforcing traffic laws for profit.

    I tend to agree with this. I refer to cops as armed revenue agents. That's their primary job as far as I can tell.

    I also agree with your post above regarding tighter controls needed. The feds (DoJ) had to squash Seattle PD, and put them on an improvement plan because too many people were having their rights violated (and lives taken) by cops using excessive force.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • fifefife Posts: 3,036
    rgambs said:

    because nearly all of them use substances more dangerous than marijuana (alcohol and pharmaceuticals), they ALL speed, and they nearly all drive or have driven under the influence. If you dont agree i would invite you to experience the real world for a change. I have no facts and figures, I dont need them, i live in reality where its obvious that most of police man-hours go toward enforcing traffic laws for profit.

    I love this " I have no facts and firgures" you should run for for office with that slogan. you have no idea about what world i live in.

    how many cops you know? when is the last time you actually talked to a cop cause i do it alot in my job.

    as for traffic laws, a cop should not pull over a car speeding in a resident place? did these cops create the laws? should they not do their job as dictated to them by their bosses? so a cop has to be perfect in everything if they want to be a cop?
  • fifefife Posts: 3,036
    rgambs said:

    we need much stricter controls for both the hiring and supervising of civil servants who are given such encompassing powers

    I agree 100% on this statement.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 8,800
    fife said:

    rgambs said:

    because nearly all of them use substances more dangerous than marijuana (alcohol and pharmaceuticals), they ALL speed, and they nearly all drive or have driven under the influence. If you dont agree i would invite you to experience the real world for a change. I have no facts and figures, I dont need them, i live in reality where its obvious that most of police man-hours go toward enforcing traffic laws for profit.

    I love this " I have no facts and firgures" you should run for for office with that slogan. you have no idea about what world i live in.

    how many cops you know? when is the last time you actually talked to a cop cause i do it alot in my job.

    as for traffic laws, a cop should not pull over a car speeding in a resident place? did these cops create the laws? should they not do their job as dictated to them by their bosses? so a cop has to be perfect in everything if they want to be a cop?
    well you can talk to 1000s of cops in your job (some sort of social worker right? Good on you for that!!) and it goes for nothing to this discussion. Talk to them in their outside lives, where their guard is down, and you get the real truth! What kind of idiot cop admits malfeasance when on the job?? I am drawing from a small sample of 7 or 8 smallish town police officers who I have had personal, not professional, relationships with. They drink, sometimes they drive after having a few, they speed and violate other laws, and they will admit it because they know their "brothers" wouldnt dare do anything.
    As far as taking orders, right is right and wrong is wrong, Nazi soldier or American cop, it doesnt matter. Citing a young adult for marijuana use is WRONG! It precludes a person from receiving federal financial aid, thereby ruining a life. And if you drink you are in no position to judge a user of pot!
    Regarding speeding, I understand the reason for the law and those busted going dangerously fast in residential zones of course should be busted. But you cant legitimately defend hiding under highway overpasses to bust people driving 75mph when you do the same in your life. To quote an ex-cop "i got tired of ruining peoples days for violating laws that NOBODY obeys at all times. It's so arbitrary. The last speeder I cited said "thank you for picking me today, now im going to be late and lose my job. Who's gonna feed my kids until i can find a new one?" " he quit soon after this incident. Good guy!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • fifefife Posts: 3,036
    rgambs said:

    fife said:

    rgambs said:

    because nearly all of them use substances more dangerous than marijuana (alcohol and pharmaceuticals), they ALL speed, and they nearly all drive or have driven under the influence. If you dont agree i would invite you to experience the real world for a change. I have no facts and figures, I dont need them, i live in reality where its obvious that most of police man-hours go toward enforcing traffic laws for profit.

    I love this " I have no facts and firgures" you should run for for office with that slogan. you have no idea about what world i live in.

    how many cops you know? when is the last time you actually talked to a cop cause i do it alot in my job.

    as for traffic laws, a cop should not pull over a car speeding in a resident place? did these cops create the laws? should they not do their job as dictated to them by their bosses? so a cop has to be perfect in everything if they want to be a cop?
    well you can talk to 1000s of cops in your job (some sort of social worker right? Good on you for that!!) and it goes for nothing to this discussion. Talk to them in their outside lives, where their guard is down, and you get the real truth! What kind of idiot cop admits malfeasance when on the job?? I am drawing from a small sample of 7 or 8 smallish town police officers who I have had personal, not professional, relationships with. They drink, sometimes they drive after having a few, they speed and violate other laws, and they will admit it because they know their "brothers" wouldnt dare do anything.
    As far as taking orders, right is right and wrong is wrong, Nazi soldier or American cop, it doesnt matter. Citing a young adult for marijuana use is WRONG! It precludes a person from receiving federal financial aid, thereby ruining a life. And if you drink you are in no position to judge a user of pot!
    Regarding speeding, I understand the reason for the law and those busted going dangerously fast in residential zones of course should be busted. But you cant legitimately defend hiding under highway overpasses to bust people driving 75mph when you do the same in your life. To quote an ex-cop "i got tired of ruining peoples days for violating laws that NOBODY obeys at all times. It's so arbitrary. The last speeder I cited said "thank you for picking me today, now im going to be late and lose my job. Who's gonna feed my kids until i can find a new one?" " he quit soon after this incident. Good guy!
    yes I am a social worker and don't get me wrong. i have major issues with some cops like i said before. cops are people and just like people cops are flawed. its why i agreed with your statement about better hiring and supervision.

    I think we will both agree that some laws are really stupid. the challenge is: if a cop is swore to follow the laws that are in place should that cop not do his or her job?

    I find some cops are strict letter of the law and some are the good ones who follow the spirit of the law.

    for me, I would rather fight the laws that are in place. those laws are created by politicians not by cops.

    also concerning your story, good on the cop. actually, i wish he stayed on as being a cop cause he could have made changes to the system. hopefully he/she is doing that now.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 8,800
    yeah he was a state highway patrolman (in ohio they have a reputation for being paramilitary assholes) and i agree, it would be nice to have him out there looking after people and keeping us safe! It wasnt jiving with the other coppers so he works in a factory now..makes alot more money, and thats another big problem..why should we expect much from cops, firemen, teachers, when they get paid so little? They should be better compensated, that alone would cause them to raise their standards of admission!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,725
    Who is forcing them to take the job for that pay? Do they not know what the details are prior to applying? Are they not free to leave if the demands exceed their stress levels?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 8,800
    unsung said:

    Who is forcing them to take the job for that pay? Do they not know what the details are prior to applying? Are they not free to leave if the demands exceed their stress levels?

    who are you arguing with? I was offering a solution to improve the state of policing, not defending police work as it stands.
    Do you not agree that someone given the authority to physically detain a person should be thoroughly vetted and well compensated? Would that not raise the standard? What solution do you favor if this isnt acceptable?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • fifefife Posts: 3,036
    <
    unsung said:

    Who is forcing them to take the job for that pay? Do they not know what the details are prior to applying? Are they not free to leave if the demands exceed their stress levels?

    no one is talking about this at all. do you not agree that you would get better police officer if they were paid more and there fore raise the standard of policing. if you pay crap, you will get alot of crap.

  • fifefife Posts: 3,036
    sorry rgambs, i just saw that you wrote the same thing basically to unsung.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,725
    I guess I'm just sick of seeing them put on a pedestal.

    I don't buy the whole pay them more so they do a better job argument. Does that mean they'll stop harassing people? Will they stop dragging people out of their homes at gunpoint like they did in Boston? Will they not illegally confiscate firearms like did during Katrina? Will they stop shooting dogs? Will they stop murdering people by using chokeholds?

    Oh wait they are just doing their jobs, just following orders and procedures.

    Now they just make more doing it.
  • fifefife Posts: 3,036
    unsung said:

    I guess I'm just sick of seeing them put on a pedestal.

    I don't buy the whole pay them more so they do a better job argument. Does that mean they'll stop harassing people? Will they stop dragging people out of their homes at gunpoint like they did in Boston? Will they not illegally confiscate firearms like did during Katrina? Will they stop shooting dogs? Will they stop murdering people by using chokeholds?

    Oh wait they are just doing their jobs, just following orders and procedures.

    Now they just make more doing it.

    its not about putting them on a pedestal at all. what we are saying is that when you pay people more you are going to get people who might want to be cops join and when you can get more people for a job you can expect more from them.

    when demand for police officers are high but enrollment is low, you are going to get cops that might not be good. you might gets those cops that went into the twin towers to get people out and risking their lives.

  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,725
    edited August 2014
    I don't know if I go for that.

    My stepfather became a cop back in the early 80's iirc. People did it back them because it was a decent job and they actually wanted to help people.

    Now it's a different mentality, and I know because I dated a female officer. Most of them have these holier than thou attitudes where they really believe that they are special. Instead of doing good for the community they sign on because of the thrill, plus many are out of the military so it's a natural fit.

    Someone else hit it on the nose, a lot are the jocks that bullied people, or the people that never got invited to parties so it's a head trip for them.
  • fifefife Posts: 3,036
    unsung said:

    I don't know if I go for that.

    My stepfather became a cop back in the early 80's iirc. People did it back them because it was a decent job and they actually wanted to help people.

    Now it's a different mentality, and I know because I dated a female officer. Most of them have these holier than thou attitudes where they really believe that they are special. Instead of doing good for the community they sign on because of the thrill, plus many are out of the military so it's a natural fit.

    Someone else hit it on the nose, a lot are the jocks that bullied people, or the people that never got invited to parties so it's a head trip for them.

    I don't know if its fair to label all police officer as holier than thou cause you dated 1 female cop who was like that. .

    do you really believe that it is not better for any industry to have more people wanting a job than job themselves?

    again no one here has said that all police are great or even good. what we are saying is that most are pretty good.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 8,800
    i believe that higher pay would indirectly lead to more accountability... As a city, if you are paying out the ass you are more likely to be involved in the implementation, plain and simple. I believe we need higher intelligence and training standards, and governing bodies made of civillians and industry peeps working together..
    The problem i dont have an answer to is the issue of cops protecting cops. Until this is circumvented there isnt much that will actually take hold and make a difference.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • fifefife Posts: 3,036
    rgambs said:

    i believe that higher pay would indirectly lead to more accountability... As a city, if you are paying out the ass you are more likely to be involved in the implementation, plain and simple. I believe we need higher intelligence and training standards, and governing bodies made of civillians and industry peeps working together..
    The problem i dont have an answer to is the issue of cops protecting cops. Until this is circumvented there isnt much that will actually take hold and make a difference.

    its is the last 2 sentences that i think is the hard part. i have talked to cops about that and I think the main issue is that they are like brother. they protect themselves cause it is the brother will protect them in the field.

    I might not agree to that but I have also heard soldiers saying the same thing. I am one to believe that sometimes you have to hit a brother upside the head sometimes.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 8,800
    haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • fifefife Posts: 3,036
    rgambs said:

    haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.

    we have this thing in Toronto which is call the crisis mobile team. its usually 2 cops and a social worker and 1 mental health nurse. basically their jobs is to assist people in mental health crisis in getting to a hospital. the police get training around mental health and addictions and non violent interventions. i have been calling on the city to actually make that training mandatory for all police. all the cops i know love it.

    concerning the jarhead mentality, i could not agree with you more. I wonder if that attitude happens more in small towns or in large cities. i have grown up in a large city all my life but i have friends in the usa who comes from small towns and they tell me stories about like highschool football players being gods in their cities.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 8,800
    fife said:

    rgambs said:

    haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.

    we have this thing in Toronto which is call the crisis mobile team. its usually 2 cops and a social worker and 1 mental health nurse. basically their jobs is to assist people in mental health crisis in getting to a hospital. the police get training around mental health and addictions and non violent interventions. i have been calling on the city to actually make that training mandatory for all police. all the cops i know love it.

    concerning the jarhead mentality, i could not agree with you more. I wonder if that attitude happens more in small towns or in large cities. i have grown up in a large city all my life but i have friends in the usa who comes from small towns and they tell me stories about like highschool football players being gods in their cities.
    yes i am small town in ohio. Picture corn feilds and oil wells lol
    i can say that the "jarhead mentality" i am talking about is probably more prevalent in small towns. Like you said and unsung also, the big shots languish after highschool glory and many turn to police work. Small communities have a wonderful investment in the youth and this "highschool celebrity" that ensues is an ugly side effect. The funny thing is, that paramilitary attitude would be much more appropriate in a large city than a small town. Not saying it is effective, but at least your "brothers" need you looking out for them.
    I love the sound of the program you are talking about in Toronto. I would bet that every year there are close to millions of arrests, citations, and confrontations that would never have happened if the officer involved had simply talked to the civillians like human beings who deserve respect AND compassion.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 8,800
    *to clarify i meant, in these arrests, citations, and incidents, violence could be avoided.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
Sign In or Register to comment.