Police abuse

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Comments

  • tbergstbergs Posts: 3,645
    This is so corrupt and crazy it's unbelievable, but then I realized it's Alabama. Note to self, never visit Alabama. This sheriff should go to jail.

    It's a hopeless situation...
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,160
    tbergs said:
    This is so corrupt and crazy it's unbelievable, but then I realized it's Alabama. Note to self, never visit Alabama. This sheriff should go to jail.

    I’m all for shortening food budgets, but then put that money into the school district or rehab programs for prisoners when they get out or something. No way should he be allowed to keep it
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 3,645
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    This is so corrupt and crazy it's unbelievable, but then I realized it's Alabama. Note to self, never visit Alabama. This sheriff should go to jail.

    I’m all for shortening food budgets, but then put that money into the school district or rehab programs for prisoners when they get out or something. No way should he be allowed to keep it
    Definitely. It's crazy that shit like this can and still does happen. This guy is a piece of shit who is scamming the system. I would be interested in seeing how many other sheriff's in Alabama are doing the same thing because you know he has told all of his buddies when they have seminars and conferences. This from the state who gave us Roy Moore. The entire population should be outraged by this.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 3,036
    Nice job Sacramento police.  Fuckin up again.  This time a hit and run?  Dude who did it needs to be in jail.

    https://theundefeated.com/features/hours-after-matt-barnes-hosts-peaceful-rally-for-stephon-clark-in-sacramento-sheriffs-department-car-hits-protester/

  • tbergstbergs Posts: 3,645
    I read that story, but hadn't watched the video. I was hoping it was some sort of accident where they may not have known they made impact, but that definitely does not seem to be the case. I will say that walking in front of a squad with full lights on is stupid no matter how fast it is moving. It doesn't mean you should be hit, but there are risks involved and it is not completely clear from that little video what happened directly after that, which may have been the reason no officers stayed on the scene. I read a report that the police are claiming the rear window of that squad was broken out and there is minor damage to it as well from "vandals". Hopefully some more video and specific details about the encounter can clarify what happened.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-stephon-clark-vigil-sacramento-20180331-story.html

    It's a hopeless situation...
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 3,036

    A second squad car did the hit and run.  Allegedly.


    Per the video, the sheriff’s deputy said, “Back away from my vehicle” four times as he incrementally began to move the car. Approximately 30 people were around the first vehicle when it started to pull off. Cleveland, hearing the command and dealing with arthritis in her knees that was causing her pain, started making her way to the curb in accordance with the deputy’s demands.

    As she was attempting to reach the sidewalk, a second sheriff’s vehicle sped up unexpectedly, Cleveland said, and hit her in the knee, which sent her airborne and into the curb.


  • dignindignin Posts: 5,881

    A BETRAYAL

    The teenager told police all about his gang, MS-13. In return, he was slated for deportation and marked for death.

    https://features.propublica.org/ms-13/a-betrayal-ms13-gang-police-fbi-ice-deportation/

    Sad story.
  • dignin said:

    A BETRAYAL

    The teenager told police all about his gang, MS-13. In return, he was slated for deportation and marked for death.

    https://features.propublica.org/ms-13/a-betrayal-ms13-gang-police-fbi-ice-deportation/

    Sad story.

    A tough situation for all.

    I don't blame the US at all for wanting to rid itself of MS-13 activity. The problem here, obviously, is that they used the kid and disregarded him after attaining their information. This doesn't bode well for future 'deals'.

    As for the kid himself... eesh. If we take the story at face value (because sometimes there is more to the story), the kid never really had a chance at any point: he was doomed to become a member and doomed trying to leave the organization regardless of what he wanted for himself.

    His story is likely a common one.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • dignindignin Posts: 5,881
    dignin said:

    A BETRAYAL

    The teenager told police all about his gang, MS-13. In return, he was slated for deportation and marked for death.

    https://features.propublica.org/ms-13/a-betrayal-ms13-gang-police-fbi-ice-deportation/

    Sad story.

    A tough situation for all.

    I don't blame the US at all for wanting to rid itself of MS-13 activity. The problem here, obviously, is that they used the kid and disregarded him after attaining their information. This doesn't bode well for future 'deals'.

    As for the kid himself... eesh. If we take the story at face value (because sometimes there is more to the story), the kid never really had a chance at any point: he was doomed to become a member and doomed trying to leave the organization regardless of what he wanted for himself.

    His story is likely a common one.
    Yeah, It's a pretty fucked up situation.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 17,963
    dignin said:
    dignin said:

    A BETRAYAL

    The teenager told police all about his gang, MS-13. In return, he was slated for deportation and marked for death.

    https://features.propublica.org/ms-13/a-betrayal-ms13-gang-police-fbi-ice-deportation/

    Sad story.

    A tough situation for all.

    I don't blame the US at all for wanting to rid itself of MS-13 activity. The problem here, obviously, is that they used the kid and disregarded him after attaining their information. This doesn't bode well for future 'deals'.

    As for the kid himself... eesh. If we take the story at face value (because sometimes there is more to the story), the kid never really had a chance at any point: he was doomed to become a member and doomed trying to leave the organization regardless of what he wanted for himself.

    His story is likely a common one.
    Yeah, It's a pretty fucked up situation.
    What a brutal life it kills me to think that these teen kids end up with this kind of choices , Man is truly evil this can’t be denied !
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • lolobugglolobugg BLUE RDGE MTNSPosts: 6,627
    dignin said:
    dignin said:

    A BETRAYAL

    The teenager told police all about his gang, MS-13. In return, he was slated for deportation and marked for death.

    https://features.propublica.org/ms-13/a-betrayal-ms13-gang-police-fbi-ice-deportation/

    Sad story.

    A tough situation for all.

    I don't blame the US at all for wanting to rid itself of MS-13 activity. The problem here, obviously, is that they used the kid and disregarded him after attaining their information. This doesn't bode well for future 'deals'.

    As for the kid himself... eesh. If we take the story at face value (because sometimes there is more to the story), the kid never really had a chance at any point: he was doomed to become a member and doomed trying to leave the organization regardless of what he wanted for himself.

    His story is likely a common one.
    Yeah, It's a pretty fucked up situation.
    What a brutal life it kills me to think that these teen kids end up with this kind of choices , Man is truly evil this can’t be denied !


    terrible story. he was fucked from the start. and now he is really fucked.

    hopefully some gang members will get that Narc that turned him in.

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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 7,105
    edited April 4
    Finally an officer is charged for the vicious beating of a "suspect", whose crime was jaywalking. The officer in question resigned earlier this year before he could be fired, and now faces charges of assault. Can't wait to see all those instances of white police officers beating white jaywalkers that I'm sure exist.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/04/newly-released-videos-asheville-north-carolina-police-beating-black-man-jaywalking.html
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 10,386
    Jaywalking. :weary: It’s the middle of the night and I saw maybe 7 cars in all three of the videos. Pock-mark zit-faced prick was just out looking for a reason to be an asshole. Yeah, it was stupid of Rush to run, but he never should have been stopped in the first place.
  • dignindignin Posts: 5,881
    Finally an officer is charged for the vicious beating of a "suspect", whose crime was jaywalking. The officer in question resigned earlier this year before he could be fired, and now faces charges of assault. Can't wait to see all those instances of white police officers beating white jaywalkers that I'm sure exist.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/04/newly-released-videos-asheville-north-carolina-police-beating-black-man-jaywalking.html
    Absolutely disgusting.
  • dignin said:
    Finally an officer is charged for the vicious beating of a "suspect", whose crime was jaywalking. The officer in question resigned earlier this year before he could be fired, and now faces charges of assault. Can't wait to see all those instances of white police officers beating white jaywalkers that I'm sure exist.

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/04/newly-released-videos-asheville-north-carolina-police-beating-black-man-jaywalking.html
    Absolutely disgusting.
    The odd thing is that during that video and afterwards... the cop seemed to genuinely feel the suspect had pushed matters to the point where such force was required and necessary. His commentary throughout the video was not remorseful at all. The cop had completely lost perspective.

    The problem started with the bogus jaywalking ticket: why? Why ticket the guy? It's night time... traffic is super light... and the guy is hardly a problem. Is police work there so uninteresting that a jaywalker trying to walk home after work demands four officers of the law at night?

    Obviously, it might have been better to laugh and move on rather than chase the jaywalking suspect down and beat him up. This didn't happen because the cop wouldn't relinquish power. It also would have been better if the guy hadn't run (I maintain that's the last thing to do- it triggers an entirely different set of circumstances and stresses).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 7,105
    I think that the weight of evidence suggests that oftentimes, black people have every reason to think it might be worth trying to flee police in the US. It's not like it tends to work out all that well if they don't flee. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,160
    edited April 4
    I think that the weight of evidence suggests that oftentimes, black people have every reason to think it might be worth trying to flee police in the US. It's not like it tends to work out all that well if they don't flee. 
    I think that statement is part of the problem. Its sort of a domino effect. For every wrongful act we see, there's 1000 encounters that go without incident. But then young black men think exactly what you just said, so more and more begin to flea or resist arrest instead of just letting it play out without incident and it becomes a bigger problem. 
    I'm not defending everything police every do, but to imply "it tends to not work out all that well" is also completely untrue. The encounters that end peacefully out number the violent ones 1000 to 1.
    Before some of you jump down asking for stats and links, I dont have one that gives that exact figure. But with 600,000 police emplyed, about half working the streets, thats 300,000 cops. At any given time about a 1/4 are out there on the street. Each one encounters dozens of people a day, so literally millions of people each day encounter police. And how many end violently due to race? The odds are still greatly in your favor to just cooperate. 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 7,105
    Kind of hard to understand the logic in this one.

    A young man (black, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence) is found guilty of felony murder and received a 30 year sentence for it, along with shorter concurrent sentences for theft and burglary. The interesting twist? He didn't kill anyone. One of the people he was with was shot dead by police, and Alabama law allows for a murder charge if someone is engaged in committing a crime with another person that leads to that person's death. Smith was 15 at the time but was tried as an adult, for a crime he didn't commit.

    The officer who killed the other guy (Washington) was cleared of any wrongdoing. The convoluted logic seems to be that the officer who actually killed Washington was justified and thus not guilty of murder, but the guy with him, who didn't shoot anybody, is guilty of Washington's murder, even though he didn't get murdered because it was a justified shooting.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lakeith-smith-adonte-washington-sentence-murder_us_5ac8df6de4b09d0a11943ba4
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Kind of hard to understand the logic in this one.

    A young man (black, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence) is found guilty of felony murder and received a 30 year sentence for it, along with shorter concurrent sentences for theft and burglary. The interesting twist? He didn't kill anyone. One of the people he was with was shot dead by police, and Alabama law allows for a murder charge if someone is engaged in committing a crime with another person that leads to that person's death. Smith was 15 at the time but was tried as an adult, for a crime he didn't commit.

    The officer who killed the other guy (Washington) was cleared of any wrongdoing. The convoluted logic seems to be that the officer who actually killed Washington was justified and thus not guilty of murder, but the guy with him, who didn't shoot anybody, is guilty of Washington's murder, even though he didn't get murdered because it was a justified shooting.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lakeith-smith-adonte-washington-sentence-murder_us_5ac8df6de4b09d0a11943ba4

    It's too hard to understand because there's no way to understand it.

    I read this story (I was drawn to the 'rejected 25 years and got 65 years' headline thinking some idiot played his hand poorly). To boot... it's not as if they were dealing with a career criminal who the courts have grown weary of. This was a 15 year old stealing stuff with other kids.

    It's obscene.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,160
    Kind of hard to understand the logic in this one.

    A young man (black, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence) is found guilty of felony murder and received a 30 year sentence for it, along with shorter concurrent sentences for theft and burglary. The interesting twist? He didn't kill anyone. One of the people he was with was shot dead by police, and Alabama law allows for a murder charge if someone is engaged in committing a crime with another person that leads to that person's death. Smith was 15 at the time but was tried as an adult, for a crime he didn't commit.

    The officer who killed the other guy (Washington) was cleared of any wrongdoing. The convoluted logic seems to be that the officer who actually killed Washington was justified and thus not guilty of murder, but the guy with him, who didn't shoot anybody, is guilty of Washington's murder, even though he didn't get murdered because it was a justified shooting.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lakeith-smith-adonte-washington-sentence-murder_us_5ac8df6de4b09d0a11943ba4

    It's too hard to understand because there's no way to understand it.

    I read this story (I was drawn to the 'rejected 25 years and got 65 years' headline thinking some idiot played his hand poorly). To boot... it's not as if they were dealing with a career criminal who the courts have grown weary of. This was a 15 year old stealing stuff with other kids.

    It's obscene.
    A lot of states have that law. If I rob a bank and hold people hostige, if people die in the rescue attempt I would be charged with murder. If you commit a crime and people die as a result, its murder.
  • mace1229 said:
    Kind of hard to understand the logic in this one.

    A young man (black, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence) is found guilty of felony murder and received a 30 year sentence for it, along with shorter concurrent sentences for theft and burglary. The interesting twist? He didn't kill anyone. One of the people he was with was shot dead by police, and Alabama law allows for a murder charge if someone is engaged in committing a crime with another person that leads to that person's death. Smith was 15 at the time but was tried as an adult, for a crime he didn't commit.

    The officer who killed the other guy (Washington) was cleared of any wrongdoing. The convoluted logic seems to be that the officer who actually killed Washington was justified and thus not guilty of murder, but the guy with him, who didn't shoot anybody, is guilty of Washington's murder, even though he didn't get murdered because it was a justified shooting.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lakeith-smith-adonte-washington-sentence-murder_us_5ac8df6de4b09d0a11943ba4

    It's too hard to understand because there's no way to understand it.

    I read this story (I was drawn to the 'rejected 25 years and got 65 years' headline thinking some idiot played his hand poorly). To boot... it's not as if they were dealing with a career criminal who the courts have grown weary of. This was a 15 year old stealing stuff with other kids.

    It's obscene.
    A lot of states have that law. If I rob a bank and hold people hostige, if people die in the rescue attempt I would be charged with murder. If you commit a crime and people die as a result, its murder.
    Except in this case... there wasn't a murder.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,160
    edited April 9
    mace1229 said:
    Kind of hard to understand the logic in this one.

    A young man (black, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence) is found guilty of felony murder and received a 30 year sentence for it, along with shorter concurrent sentences for theft and burglary. The interesting twist? He didn't kill anyone. One of the people he was with was shot dead by police, and Alabama law allows for a murder charge if someone is engaged in committing a crime with another person that leads to that person's death. Smith was 15 at the time but was tried as an adult, for a crime he didn't commit.

    The officer who killed the other guy (Washington) was cleared of any wrongdoing. The convoluted logic seems to be that the officer who actually killed Washington was justified and thus not guilty of murder, but the guy with him, who didn't shoot anybody, is guilty of Washington's murder, even though he didn't get murdered because it was a justified shooting.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lakeith-smith-adonte-washington-sentence-murder_us_5ac8df6de4b09d0a11943ba4

    It's too hard to understand because there's no way to understand it.

    I read this story (I was drawn to the 'rejected 25 years and got 65 years' headline thinking some idiot played his hand poorly). To boot... it's not as if they were dealing with a career criminal who the courts have grown weary of. This was a 15 year old stealing stuff with other kids.

    It's obscene.
    A lot of states have that law. If I rob a bank and hold people hostige, if people die in the rescue attempt I would be charged with murder. If you commit a crime and people die as a result, its murder.
    Except in this case... there wasn't a murder.
    According to the law, yes there was. Someone was killed during a burglary. The article states "both sides exchanged gunfire." I fail to see how he is not where he belongs.
    Many states have a law, not just Alabama, where if someone is killed during your criminal activity you can (and should in my opinion) be charged with murder.
    This article was no different than my example. If I rob a bank, and the FBI come to try and rescue people and they accidentally shoot innocent vitcims, I would be charged with that murder. Only difference was this victim was not "innocent," he was part of the crime. Makes no difference in my opinion. 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 7,105
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Kind of hard to understand the logic in this one.

    A young man (black, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence) is found guilty of felony murder and received a 30 year sentence for it, along with shorter concurrent sentences for theft and burglary. The interesting twist? He didn't kill anyone. One of the people he was with was shot dead by police, and Alabama law allows for a murder charge if someone is engaged in committing a crime with another person that leads to that person's death. Smith was 15 at the time but was tried as an adult, for a crime he didn't commit.

    The officer who killed the other guy (Washington) was cleared of any wrongdoing. The convoluted logic seems to be that the officer who actually killed Washington was justified and thus not guilty of murder, but the guy with him, who didn't shoot anybody, is guilty of Washington's murder, even though he didn't get murdered because it was a justified shooting.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lakeith-smith-adonte-washington-sentence-murder_us_5ac8df6de4b09d0a11943ba4

    It's too hard to understand because there's no way to understand it.

    I read this story (I was drawn to the 'rejected 25 years and got 65 years' headline thinking some idiot played his hand poorly). To boot... it's not as if they were dealing with a career criminal who the courts have grown weary of. This was a 15 year old stealing stuff with other kids.

    It's obscene.
    A lot of states have that law. If I rob a bank and hold people hostige, if people die in the rescue attempt I would be charged with murder. If you commit a crime and people die as a result, its murder.
    Except in this case... there wasn't a murder.
    According to the law, yes there was. Someone was killed during a burglary. The article states "both sides exchanged gunfire." I fail to see how he is not where he belongs.
    Many states have a law, not just Alabama, where if someone is killed during your criminal activity you can (and should in my opinion) be charged with murder.
    This article was no different than my example. If I rob a bank, and the FBI come to try and rescue people and they accidentally shoot innocent vitcims, I would be charged with that murder. Only difference was this victim was not "innocent," he was part of the crime. Makes no difference in my opinion. 
    I really shake my head that you could see this as a just outcome for a 15 year old caught up in this situation. It speaks volumes. 

    Regarding your “both sides” quote (and how appropriate), do you have any evidence that this young guy even fired a gun? 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,160
    edited April 9
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Kind of hard to understand the logic in this one.

    A young man (black, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence) is found guilty of felony murder and received a 30 year sentence for it, along with shorter concurrent sentences for theft and burglary. The interesting twist? He didn't kill anyone. One of the people he was with was shot dead by police, and Alabama law allows for a murder charge if someone is engaged in committing a crime with another person that leads to that person's death. Smith was 15 at the time but was tried as an adult, for a crime he didn't commit.

    The officer who killed the other guy (Washington) was cleared of any wrongdoing. The convoluted logic seems to be that the officer who actually killed Washington was justified and thus not guilty of murder, but the guy with him, who didn't shoot anybody, is guilty of Washington's murder, even though he didn't get murdered because it was a justified shooting.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lakeith-smith-adonte-washington-sentence-murder_us_5ac8df6de4b09d0a11943ba4

    It's too hard to understand because there's no way to understand it.

    I read this story (I was drawn to the 'rejected 25 years and got 65 years' headline thinking some idiot played his hand poorly). To boot... it's not as if they were dealing with a career criminal who the courts have grown weary of. This was a 15 year old stealing stuff with other kids.

    It's obscene.
    A lot of states have that law. If I rob a bank and hold people hostige, if people die in the rescue attempt I would be charged with murder. If you commit a crime and people die as a result, its murder.
    Except in this case... there wasn't a murder.
    According to the law, yes there was. Someone was killed during a burglary. The article states "both sides exchanged gunfire." I fail to see how he is not where he belongs.
    Many states have a law, not just Alabama, where if someone is killed during your criminal activity you can (and should in my opinion) be charged with murder.
    This article was no different than my example. If I rob a bank, and the FBI come to try and rescue people and they accidentally shoot innocent vitcims, I would be charged with that murder. Only difference was this victim was not "innocent," he was part of the crime. Makes no difference in my opinion. 
    I really shake my head that you could see this as a just outcome for a 15 year old caught up in this situation. It speaks volumes. 

    Regarding your “both sides” quote (and how appropriate), do you have any evidence that this young guy even fired a gun? 
    I thought he was 16? Not a big difference.
    But yeah, a 16-year-old who breaks into houses armed and shoots at police. I'm okay with him being charged with murder when someone is killed as a result of him shooting at police. Would you want him out, living next door to you? I wouldn't.
    I think the sentencing is a little stiff, but then he turned down an offer of 25 years. 
    The only information I have is what the article stated. It said "both sides exchanged gun fire." Do I know if he personally did? No I don't. But it doesn't matter, all are equally guilty of whatever happened. In cases like this where one person kills someone, even if only 1 person had a gun they all typically get charged with murder. Usually the trigger guy might get a few extra years. 
    I'm not sure what you are inferring by "your “both sides” quote (and how appropriate)," I was just quoting the article. If you have an issue with calling it "both sides," take it up with the author 

    Here's the facts I do know.
    He broke into a house with 4 other people.
    At least some of them were armed
    At least some of them shot at police
    One of the criminals was killed in the gunfire exchange.

    WHo did and didn't shoot or have a gun makes no difference in the eyes of the law, or to me. They were all equally involved. If you don;t want to be charged with murder when someone gets shot, maybe don't go out breaking into houses with armed friends then. If he wasn't armed, my money is on he was fully aware his friends were.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 10,469
    mace1229 said:
    I think that the weight of evidence suggests that oftentimes, black people have every reason to think it might be worth trying to flee police in the US. It's not like it tends to work out all that well if they don't flee. 
    I think that statement is part of the problem. Its sort of a domino effect. For every wrongful act we see, there's 1000 encounters that go without incident. But then young black men think exactly what you just said, so more and more begin to flea or resist arrest instead of just letting it play out without incident and it becomes a bigger problem. 
    I'm not defending everything police every do, but to imply "it tends to not work out all that well" is also completely untrue. The encounters that end peacefully out number the violent ones 1000 to 1.
    Before some of you jump down asking for stats and links, I dont have one that gives that exact figure. But with 600,000 police emplyed, about half working the streets, thats 300,000 cops. At any given time about a 1/4 are out there on the street. Each one encounters dozens of people a day, so literally millions of people each day encounter police. And how many end violently due to race? The odds are still greatly in your favor to just cooperate. 
    I think your statement is part of the real problem.  If nobody gets their head caved in or shot you see it as going down "without incident".
    Sorry, but that's bullshit.
    If you're minding your own business, crossing an empty street at night and some Gestapo wannabe hassles you and gives you a ticket for jaywalking, you'd better believe it's going to register as a fucking "incident" for you.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,160
    edited April 9
    I don't think anyone should be hassled without cause. My point was with literally millions of police interactions every day, the media and anti-cop crowd would have you believe if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not. That is simply not true, the statistics prove it.
    I don't disagree there are some bad cops, but your statement that I responded to of "it tends to not work out well" just simply isn't true. The times it does work out well outnumbers the times it doesn't 100 to 1 if not more like 1000 to 1. I'm  sorry you don;t have faith in humanity or cops, but there just aren't millions of people getting harassed every day.
    And to encourage people to not cooperate by making them believe they have a better chance of it working out if they don't really does worsen the problem.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 705
    Kind of hard to understand the logic in this one.

    A young man (black, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence) is found guilty of felony murder and received a 30 year sentence for it, along with shorter concurrent sentences for theft and burglary. The interesting twist? He didn't kill anyone. One of the people he was with was shot dead by police, and Alabama law allows for a murder charge if someone is engaged in committing a crime with another person that leads to that person's death. Smith was 15 at the time but was tried as an adult, for a crime he didn't commit.

    The officer who killed the other guy (Washington) was cleared of any wrongdoing. The convoluted logic seems to be that the officer who actually killed Washington was justified and thus not guilty of murder, but the guy with him, who didn't shoot anybody, is guilty of Washington's murder, even though he didn't get murdered because it was a justified shooting.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/lakeith-smith-adonte-washington-sentence-murder_us_5ac8df6de4b09d0a11943ba4
    I actually support the law that says if someone is killed in the commission of a crime felony, the participants in the crime are guilty of murder.  If you and I are on a "team" robbing a store and you shoot and kill the clerk, I, as a participant, participated in that murder.  Who pulled the trigger is neither here nor there.  It's a part of the risk I take going in there with you and your gun.  We committed a felony and someone was killed in the process.

    What I don't think is common is that the other perps can be charged with murder if a member of the team is killed.  I therefore don't support this.  I would also listen to an argument that you don't need to try a 15-year old as an adult in this situation and you'll never convince me that race does not play a role here.  

    Based on this story, the cop should have been cleared of wrongdoing; he was justified and not guilty of murder.  But in my opinion the kid that was shot was not murdered.  He died as the result of the crime he chose to commit.  And since he was not murdered, I find it a stretch to convict these other guys of murder.  That said, when bystanders or cops get killed in robberies, I totally support the idea that all participants are charged with murder.
    1995 Milwaukee
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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 705
    mace1229 said:
    I don't think anyone should be hassled without cause. My point was with literally millions of police interactions every day, the media and anti-cop crowd would have you believe if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not. That is simply not true, the statistics prove it.

    You are right.  Statistically, there's no way that is true.  But what if we amend the sentence: if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not if you are white.
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • dignindignin Posts: 5,881
    mace1229 said:
    I don't think anyone should be hassled without cause. My point was with literally millions of police interactions every day, the media and anti-cop crowd would have you believe if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not. That is simply not true, the statistics prove it.

    Can you provide a source for those statistics?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,160
    edited April 9
    OnWis97 said:
    mace1229 said:
    I don't think anyone should be hassled without cause. My point was with literally millions of police interactions every day, the media and anti-cop crowd would have you believe if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not. That is simply not true, the statistics prove it.

    You are right.  Statistically, there's no way that is true.  But what if we amend the sentence: if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not if you are white.
    I would agree with that.
    I think it can be explained (not necessarily justified, but explained without calling cops racist).
    Can we agree that there is more crime in among blacks? That is a commonly accepted statistic. That accounts for some, but not all of the difference.
    Some of it is bad cops and improper training. But I think there is another, more common reason.

    It is my personal belief that as a result of that difference in crime, cops can be more likely to be cautious/suspicious of blacks. Also Picture all of protesters who shouted out things like "only good cop is a dead cop," and all the ambushes on cops the last few years. The majority of those have been black, have they not? To expect cops to go into those neighborhoods and not be impacted by that is unlikely (again, not justified, just human nature to be affected by that.).
    Because the above is true, it leads people to exaggerate that truth.  People do believe the original form of my statement that you amended, that they are better or safer by not cooperating. This false belief puts everyone in more danger.
    Not to mention that the relation between police and the black communities is probably the worst, that would also lead to higher tensions and resisting that would escalate more quickly and lead to altercations that would otherwise not have occurred. 
    I guess my point is there are so many more obvious conclusions to jump to before you get to cops are racist that so many have claimed. 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
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