Malaysian Plane Possibly Shot Down?

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  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPRO Posts: 139,136
    callen said:

    no fighting aircraft fly at 33.000..the main reason is not to mess with comercial flights and some other things with the weapon system and randar..forget the mistake ,"they thought was a fighter"
    randar get signal from the heat of the aircrafts,the signal is different from big boing than an f-16..

    Greetings Dimi. You know if they have to set altitude prior to launch?
    if i understand well.u are aking if those fire the missle need to do that ,yes..and we are talking about high technology radar,to hit a target up there..u need to have all the infos to hit the target..his speed,altitude ,countermeasures..ill say simple..a normal army have this technology..
    for exable,hamas,or any other group .non-goverment..those rebel groups up there ,its imposible to have this power to do all this
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPRO Posts: 139,136
    23 was americans 9 british,4 from france..in the plane
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,121
    Reports say that air travel through that region was closed to civilian flights by the Ukraine and it appears the flight drifted off its original course. The FAA had banned flights from that region since last April.
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPRO Posts: 139,136
    Jason P said:

    Reports say that air travel through that region was closed to civilian flights by the Ukraine and it appears the flight drifted off its original course. The FAA had banned flights from that region since last April.

    i heard that too,but they said they open the last 3 days something for some flights..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,121
    I imagine someone is activily looking for the black box without the best intentions.
  • Tenzing N.Tenzing N. Posts: 466

    Yes, they will find most of the bodies. The process of dying as you are falling is not pleasant so you don't hear much about it. More than likely the missile hit one of the engines and the plane broke apart, spilling the people out as it broke up. They will also most likely be naked as you tend to shed clothes coming down. That combined with the carnage means you won't see the people.


    Not to be a jerk, but have you ever died while falling? How are you such an expert on this crash that happened less than two hours ago?
    multiple crash investigation courses and industry access to crash sites informs me. Many aspects of a crash are the same regardless of the specific circumstances. But whatever... I guess when an expert on air safety and aviation tries to give information here its going to be a waste of time.
  • FrankieGFrankieG Abingdon MD Posts: 9,095
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  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    This is just a horrible, horrible story. Combine this with isreal starting a ground war, well, all I can say is what have we become.
  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 10,255
    And the "bodies" question has been answered. They've started to collect bodies they've found along the country side. I agree last12, what a shitty shitty day.
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New Jersey Posts: 5,096
    They have the coordinates of the black box - it's in an area that the separatists occupy so that is why, in the Malyasian Prime Minister's statement that was made about a half hour ago, there are multiple governments demanding that an international corridor be opened and that the crash sight be abandoned by those who are roaming around taking pictures with dead bodies (extreme paraphrase necessary for sick bastards).
    The race is on to get that black box - Russia & the separatists are going to be going after it so there's no proof of what happened and the rest of the civilized world wants it for obvious reasons.
    VP Biden stated at an event this afternoon that we don't have all the facts but "want to be careful of what is say, apparently was shot down, shot down, blown out of the sky'.
    I feel like I'm back in the 80's in the midst of the Cold War. Putin is one scary motherfucker - he hates the fact that the USSR no longer exists and has been acting like it is pre- Perestroika.

    - Hours after President Obama puts deeper sanctions on Russia, this happens
    - Putin has made no statement about the tragedy. He could find out exactly what happened if he - were an innocent actor and bring those people to justice. He's more than capable of both the intel and the punishment - but he's silent. He and President Obama spoke on the phone about the sanctions today and this was mentioned, it was reported. To be a fly on that wall.
    - Only Soviet-era service to air missiles would be capable of shooting down a passenger jet there.
    - Russian forces had moved slightly back from Ukraine border, but are still amassed in the area. Also 'home-grown' separatists are in the area.
    - 280 passengers were on the plane, 233 have been identified - none of those identified are Americans. I don't say that because an American life is more valuable than any other life; everyone on that plane is a precious being who was taken in a horrific and unnecessary way. I just hope that, if there were Americans and this was done to retaliate for the sanctions, that Putin hasn't caused their bodies to disappear or be unidentifiable (as there were many on the scene right away). It has been stated that there were 23 or 33 Americans. There's no security there or international oversight - so who knows what is going on at the crime scene (which is 9 miles wide) right now. If this sounds paranoid, you were probably born after 1980.

    I can only surmise, due to living through The Cold War and the few facts and circumstantial evidence, that fucking Putin ordered this and either gave the go ahead to the Russian troops or provided the weaponry to the separatists. And he did it because of the sanctions and because he is a sick MF who will always think and behave like the former chief of the KGB.

    I can provide links if need be, but at the moment I am just really pissed and sad. I thought those Cold War days were over, but this seems like it is a new era that may be worse in some ways.

    Most airline carriers had stopped flying over this air space, including all U.S. commercial and cargo planes. Unfortunately, Malaysia Airlines had continued to follow this flight path for Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur due to financial reasons, but they were in no way violating any international law at 33,000 feet and had every right to use this air space. Lufthansa has announced that they are no longer going to fly over this area and several cargo planes were diverted after this incident.

    And, as an aside, John McCain (who used to be a politician I respected) needs to check himself and learn how to just shut the hell up sometimes. Whatever happened to politics stopping at the water's edge? If I hear him make another statement, I swear I'm going to need a new tv.

    Prayers and love go out to the families and friends all over the world who have senselessly lost a loved one today. In this incident and elsewhere.

    'What the fuck is this world running to'

  • njnancynjnancy Northern New Jersey Posts: 5,096

    Yes, they will find most of the bodies. The process of dying as you are falling is not pleasant so you don't hear much about it. More than likely the missile hit one of the engines and the plane broke apart, spilling the people out as it broke up. They will also most likely be naked as you tend to shed clothes coming down. That combined with the carnage means you won't see the people.


    Not to be a jerk, but have you ever died while falling? How are you such an expert on this crash that happened less than two hours ago?
    multiple crash investigation courses and industry access to crash sites informs me. Many aspects of a crash are the same regardless of the specific circumstances. But whatever... I guess when an expert on air safety and aviation tries to give information here its going to be a waste of time.
    Not at all, The pictures of the bodies floating in the water when the US shot down the Iranian Airlines airbus in 1988 at the end of the Iran/Iraq war (yup, we shot down civilians) was aired on Iranian TV non-stop - the bodies were all naked. They had said, at the time, this was due to clothes being pulled off the body while falling, and worse. I never saw the pictures, but I know that it was continually aired in Iran. Beside, the US doesn't show dead bodies which is understandable in many instances but it also keeps us all nicely disassociated from the atrocities of war.

    Information from the scene is that most of the bodies are intact. Could the pilots possibly have tried to land after being hit and got close enough to the ground so the bodies didn't fall from 33,000 feet?
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New Jersey Posts: 5,096

    Jason P said:

    Reports say that air travel through that region was closed to civilian flights by the Ukraine and it appears the flight drifted off its original course. The FAA had banned flights from that region since last April.

    i heard that too,but they said they open the last 3 days something for some flights..
    The FAA is a Department of the United States government. It has no jurisdiction over how other countries decide to fly their airlines internationally. It has advised other airlines not to fly in this air space; but that's just an opinion of a United States entity. Malaysia Airlines doesn't have to listen to the FAA.
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Doubt Putin ordered this. Would benefit Ukraine the most and deflect other worldly skirmishes. But who knows at this point.
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  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
    badbrains said:

    I agree last12, what a shitty shitty day.

    Yeah. Shitty and sad.

  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    edited July 2014
    Any investigation conducted by either Russia, Ukraine, or Malaysian officials will likely have little to no integrity. The probability that we will know the full details will be slim. This appears to be a case of someone shooting down a plane that they thought was a military or cargo plane. I do think that if pro Russian separatists are the culprits, they are dead men walking. Putin will no doubt make sure that this can't be traced back to him directly or indirectly.
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    So what happens if Americans were on board? Does the US somehow get involved? Especially if it is found that Russia either fired the missile or provided the missile.
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
    I believe I read there were Americans among the many precious lives lost. Also, earlier I saw that Obama pledged to do whatever he (US) could to assist. Not sure the level of involvement though.
  • E.KE.K New South Wales, Australia Posts: 7,697

    23 was americans 9 british,4 from france..in the plane

    27 Australians :(
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
    All mourned, nationality aside.

    Come together, right fucking now already.
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,120
    hedonist said:

    All mourned, nationality aside.

    Come together, right fucking now already.

    Hopefully, this tragedy can bring peace to this region we certainly need it. Just look what's happening in Israel......who really wins in these wars...no one really?

    Peace
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  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
    Nope, no winners. Always some price to be paid.

    I don't know what will come from this. The optimistic side of me wants something healing, substantial, to come from...loss? I don't even know what to call this today.

    But yes - I too hope.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,219
    Just to let you know... this was a large scale surface to air defense weapon... fired from either a fixed or mobile battery position. It was not a handheld, shoulder fired, short range weapon, such as a FIM-92 Stinger missile. Stingers would pose a great threat to commercial aircraft around airports, where planes take-off and land. In order to take out something such as a 777 at cruise altitude, you would need a large weapon that would use radar, rather than heat seeking capabilities... and you would need soldiers trained to fire the weapon.
    A trained team would be able to tell it was a commercial flight by the beacon it was transmitting. Amateur soldier wannabes with fundamental instruction are probably behind this. The scary thing is the weaponry these idiots have access to.
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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,474
    edited July 2014

    23 was americans 9 british,4 from france..in the plane

    At least 1 Canadian too. Not that it matters where they're from.

    From what I've read they were 1000 feet above restricted airspace, so not flying where they technically shouldn't have been. But other airlines, including Air Canada, have said that they have been sure to divert around the area for weeks now, no matter the altitude. Looks like Malaysia Airlines kind of fucked up again.

    And of course, whoever shot it down.... well... don't even know what to say about it. Sounds like the Rissian separtists did it because they thought it was a military plane (judving from an intercepted phone call i just heard on CNN). All i can really think of right now is how horrifying it was for any passengers who had time to think about it and how horrified and heart broken their families are. =(( Difficult to fathom.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
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  • E.KE.K New South Wales, Australia Posts: 7,697
    No it doesn't matter what nationalities they are but nothing has been reported about any Americans being on board on any of the Australian TV news channels or websites. :-/
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,130
    this is sad.

    terrible day today :(
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  • Leathe?ma?Leathe?ma? Яussia Posts: 354
    terrible week.. subway accident, plane..
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPRO Posts: 139,136
    sorry about my comment where some of the victims where from,i just post what they said they knew here at news at the moment of my comment..no matter where they came from,its sad..no question..
    sometimes u see horrible things...but this photo gave me so cold feeling..

    image
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPRO Posts: 139,136
    Cosmo said:

    Just to let you know... this was a large scale surface to air defense weapon... fired from either a fixed or mobile battery position. It was not a handheld, shoulder fired, short range weapon, such as a FIM-92 Stinger missile. Stingers would pose a great threat to commercial aircraft around airports, where planes take-off and land. In order to take out something such as a 777 at cruise altitude, you would need a large weapon that would use radar, rather than heat seeking capabilities... and you would need soldiers trained to fire the weapon.
    A trained team would be able to tell it was a commercial flight by the beacon it was transmitting. Amateur soldier wannabes with fundamental instruction are probably behind this. The scary thing is the weaponry these idiots have access to.

    exactly..this hit cant be done by this..
    image

    but by something like this...


    image
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • JWPearlJWPearl Posts: 19,893
    This is terrible, next year im supposed to go overseas on a holiday if all pans out well and this just bugs me
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