America's Gun Violence

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  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    unsung said:

    A Federal Judge just ruled that the Washington DC ban on concealed carry is unconstitutional. Police chief just briefed his people that anyone with any state permit can now carry in DC.

    The denying of this right is ending.

    Are they abiding by the reciprocity that already existist with all of the South,most of the sun belt and a good chunk of the Western/plain states? One CCP regardless of borders?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    Right now they are not arresting anyone with a valid ccw.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,425
    sorry but concealed carry isnt a right.,
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 21,112
    unsung said:

    A Federal Judge just ruled that the Washington DC ban on concealed carry is unconstitutional. Police chief just briefed his people that anyone with any state permit can now carry in DC.

    The denying of this right is ending.

    Maybe so. Many places in the world and in the U.S. are dangerous. More people want to carry guns. More people will kill each other. Let's keep the focus on the killing and the violence. To do otherwise is to be a stinking hippie. Kill, hate, death, violence is the only way.

    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 6,527
    Former BernieBro, turned Hillary rotten Clinton #1 Fanboy

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  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    mickeyrat said:

    sorry but concealed carry isnt a right.,


    4 out of 5 judges disagree.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 21,112
    unsung said:

    mickeyrat said:

    sorry but concealed carry isnt a right.,


    4 out of 5 judges disagree.
    Rights can be wrong.

    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    I think there is more than one minority group that has heard that before.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 21,112
    Can't argue with that.
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,425
    brianlux said:

    unsung said:

    A Federal Judge just ruled that the Washington DC ban on concealed carry is unconstitutional. Police chief just briefed his people that anyone with any state permit can now carry in DC.

    The denying of this right is ending.

    Maybe so. Many places in the world and in the U.S. are dangerous. More people want to carry guns. More people will kill each other. Let's keep the focus on the killing and the violence. To do otherwise is to be a stinking hippie. Kill, hate, death, violence is the only way.

    when does congress season start? Are we now going to have to shell out for protection of our "leaders" ?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 21,112
    mickeyrat said:

    brianlux said:

    unsung said:

    A Federal Judge just ruled that the Washington DC ban on concealed carry is unconstitutional. Police chief just briefed his people that anyone with any state permit can now carry in DC.

    The denying of this right is ending.

    Maybe so. Many places in the world and in the U.S. are dangerous. More people want to carry guns. More people will kill each other. Let's keep the focus on the killing and the violence. To do otherwise is to be a stinking hippie. Kill, hate, death, violence is the only way.

    when does congress season start? Are we now going to have to shell out for protection of our "leaders" ?
    Fairly certain we already do that.

    Congress generally convenes January 3rd.

    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
  • unsung said:

    A Federal Judge just ruled that the Washington DC ban on concealed carry is unconstitutional. Police chief just briefed his people that anyone with any state permit can now carry in DC.

    The denying of this right is ending.

    Pshew. Finally. Geez.

    Now those tightly wired, suspicious types can prepare to pull their weapon from their jacket and defend themselves against others that are: walking towards them on the sidewalk and have a different color than them... suspiciously looking at them and reaching into their jackets... arguing with them in a theater... cutting them off in traffic... or whatever- I mean, the list is endless that people need to be prepared for with their guns.

    Good news.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    Ah, the liberal "Wild West" myth that hasn't happened since they started saying it thirty years ago.
  • unsung said:

    Ah, the liberal "Wild West" myth that hasn't happened since they started saying it thirty years ago.

    No. You're wrong. Again. The ridiculous examples I used are all actual examples that have been illustrated in the many gun threads.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    Whatever. Point to a reliable and unbiased study that says crime increased. I won't wait because it doesn't exist.

    Meanwhile the FBI statistics show that when DC banned handguns crime increased, and when the Heller decision was handed down crime rates went down.

    Somehow I think you're the type of guy that calls a climate rainy because it rained one day out of 365.
  • unsung said:

    Whatever. Point to a reliable and unbiased study that says crime increased. I won't wait because it doesn't exist.

    Meanwhile the FBI statistics show that when DC banned handguns crime increased, and when the Heller decision was handed down crime rates went down.

    Somehow I think you're the type of guy that calls a climate rainy because it rained one day out of 365.

    Whatever? hahahaha... that's what my teenager says when he's being insolent upon being pointed out as wrong. I guess my post scored a few points!

    As to your first point... huh? Take a few moments to provide some context for such utterings.

    To your second point... no gun reform has any chance of success within a year, two years, or even five years. The only way to measure any success is through a longitudinal study given the appropriate time to allow for reforms to make the impact intended. I suggest looking at other countries who adopted gun reform measures and the successes they have had after decades of the implementation (Canada and the UK are two off the top of my head).

    To your third point... I offer a counter: somehow I think you're the kind of guy that when someone says, the United States has the highest gun ownership rate in the world and the highest per capita rate of firearm-related murders of all developed countries (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/gun-homicides-ownership/table/)... you blame the police for this fact.

    Oh wait... you do. I remember you saying, "If the police would just do their job."

    And when someone points out that the number of gun deaths typically exceed 32,000 per annum in your country, you blame... hmmm. I'm not even sure who you you'd blame for this whopper. Maybe the 'other guy' (the irresponsible gun owners who right up to the moment their gun killed someone were part of the responsible gun owners).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    Gun crime is down but we're adding millions of guns so let's see where we stand in 10 years.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,425
    a mans got to fill his time somehow , doesnt he? His last security gig worked out well, soooooo

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/29/george-zimmerman-volunteers-as-security-guard-at-fl-gun-store-what-could-go-wrong/

    George Zimmerman volunteers as security guard at FL gun store. What could go wrong?
    By Tom Boggioni
    Tuesday, July 29, 2014 13:46 EDT
    George Zimmerman mugshot via Seminole County Sheriff’s Office


    George Zimmerman, the former neighborhood watch volunteer acquitted in the shooting death of teenager Trayvon Martin, told police he was working night security at a Florida gun dealer after being discovered sitting in his truck outside the store after midnight Sunday evening.

    According to the Daytona Beach News-Journal, Zimmerman was questioned in front of Pompano Pat’s, a retailer specializing in guns, ammunition, and motorcycles located in Deland.

    Pompano Pat’s is owned by Pat Johnson, currently running for DeLand mayor.

    According to Sgt. Chris Estes, “He said he had permission from Pat Johnson to do night security but our officers could not make contact with Pat Johnson to verify that so we did an information report.”

    The police report states that Zimmerman told officers that Johnson asked him if he would leave his dog inside the business, following a recent burglary at the store.

    Zimmerman said he stayed for the evening with his dog so he could keep an eye on the business, adding he would be doing night time security for an “indeterminate” time.

    The gun sales manager at Pompano Pat’s said Zimmerman is not employed by the the shop.

    “George Zimmerman is not an employee of the business and he is not getting paid in any way, shape or form by Pompano Pat’s,” Sam Porter said.

    Porter claims he was aware that Zimmerman was outside the store Sunday evening but referred further questions to the owner.

    Zimmerman was arrested by police 44 days after a public outcry following the shooting death of Martin, an African-American teen returning home in the dark after purchasing Skittles and iced tea at a local convenience store.

    In July of 2013, a Florida jury acquitted Zimmerman of murder charges, believing Zimmerman was attacked by the teen and was in fear for his life.

    Since that time, Zimmerman has had several run-ins with the law, including speeding tickets, threatening his now ex-wife and her father, and being charged with aggravated assault with a weapon after barricading himself in his girlfriend’s home. His girlfriend later withdrew the charge and dropped her request for a restraining order.

    In late June, a Florida judge tossed out a libel lawsuit Zimmerman filed against NBC Universal, claiming they broadcast an edited phone call attempting to portray him as a racist.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 9,838
    I'm new to the table here but I have to ask "How many legal guns are used in violent crimes"?


  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,425

    I'm new to the table here but I have to ask "How many legal guns are used in violent crimes"?


    I'd wager ALL guns began as legal , but since the feds have a really high hurdle to track guns to begin with , its really hard to say how many were stolen vs outright sold on the blackmarket after legal purchase.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • unsungunsung Posts: 7,864
    edited July 2014

    unsung said:

    Whatever. Point to a reliable and unbiased study that says crime increased. I won't wait because it doesn't exist.

    Meanwhile the FBI statistics show that when DC banned handguns crime increased, and when the Heller decision was handed down crime rates went down.

    Somehow I think you're the type of guy that calls a climate rainy because it rained one day out of 365.

    Whatever? hahahaha... that's what my teenager says when he's being insolent upon being pointed out as wrong. I guess my post scored a few points!

    As to your first point... huh? Take a few moments to provide some context for such utterings.

    To your second point... no gun reform has any chance of success within a year, two years, or even five years. The only way to measure any success is through a longitudinal study given the appropriate time to allow for reforms to make the impact intended. I suggest looking at other countries who adopted gun reform measures and the successes they have had after decades of the implementation (Canada and the UK are two off the top of my head).

    To your third point... I offer a counter: somehow I think you're the kind of guy that when someone says, the United States has the highest gun ownership rate in the world and the highest per capita rate of firearm-related murders of all developed countries (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/gun-homicides-ownership/table/)... you blame the police for this fact.

    Oh wait... you do. I remember you saying, "If the police would just do their job."

    And when someone points out that the number of gun deaths typically exceed 32,000 per annum in your country, you blame... hmmm. I'm not even sure who you you'd blame for this whopper. Maybe the 'other guy' (the irresponsible gun owners who right up to the moment their gun killed someone were part of the responsible gun owners).

    Whatever, i.e. the internet equivalent of banging ones head off the wall. Perhaps we should consider why we are doing so... what's the common denominator here?

    Skipping ahead, I have said that the police can be a deterrent, but only if they are used properly. Apparently they are too busy shooting dogs though. I've also stated, and the courts can back me up here, the police have no obligation to protect anyone. That would mean people are responsible for their own safety. The police chief of Detroit has stated that with people carrying guns that crime has dropped. Detroit. Let that sink in.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140716/METRO01/307160034

    Detroit has experienced 37 percent fewer robberies in 2014 than during the same period last year, 22 percent fewer break-ins of businesses and homes, and 30 percent fewer carjackings. Craig attributed the drop to better police work and criminals being reluctant to prey on citizens who may be carrying guns.


    In the meantime keep comparing the US to other countries, while you are at it compare those apples to those oranges.
    Post edited by unsung on
  • I'm new to the table here but I have to ask "How many legal guns are used in violent crimes"?


    Legal or illegal... who cares? Your country is the most armed country in the world and, not coincidently, obliterates every other developed country in gun deaths.

    If you want fewer gun deaths... start the movement to get the guns from the streets. Among many things, the following types of things would likely yield very positive results for your country if implemented:
    - Eliminate 'novelty' guns (those which have no 'practical' purpose- such as hunting- for the typical citizen).
    - Develop comprehensive background checks for new owners.
    - Develop stringent criteria for handgun ownership.
    - Offer attractive 'buy back' incentives to get many existing guns off the streets.
    - Restrict ammunition sales to registered gun owners.

    Of course, there would be no overnight fix. But, in time and at a minimum, difficult access to weapons and ammunition would make it much more difficult for, say, the estranged husband shooting his ex in a drunken moment of anger (and other 'similar' scenarios where people don't have immediate access to a gun to express their fit of rage).

    If you want guns with very little regulation... brace for 30,000+ deaths by gun every year including your two or three national tragedies that have the rest of the world shake our heads somewhat in disbelief.

    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 9,838

    unsung said:

    Whatever. Point to a reliable and unbiased study that says crime increased. I won't wait because it doesn't exist.

    Meanwhile the FBI statistics show that when DC banned handguns crime increased, and when the Heller decision was handed down crime rates went down.

    Somehow I think you're the type of guy that calls a climate rainy because it rained one day out of 365.

    Whatever? hahahaha... that's what my teenager says when he's being insolent upon being pointed out as wrong. I guess my post scored a few points!

    As to your first point... huh? Take a few moments to provide some context for such utterings.

    To your second point... no gun reform has any chance of success within a year, two years, or even five years. The only way to measure any success is through a longitudinal study given the appropriate time to allow for reforms to make the impact intended. I suggest looking at other countries who adopted gun reform measures and the successes they have had after decades of the implementation (Canada and the UK are two off the top of my head).

    To your third point... I offer a counter: somehow I think you're the kind of guy that when someone says, the United States has the highest gun ownership rate in the world and the highest per capita rate of firearm-related murders of all developed countries (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/gun-homicides-ownership/table/)... you blame the police for this fact.

    Oh wait... you do. I remember you saying, "If the police would just do their job."

    And when someone points out that the number of gun deaths typically exceed 32,000 per annum in your country, you blame... hmmm. I'm not even sure who you you'd blame for this whopper. Maybe the 'other guy' (the irresponsible gun owners who right up to the moment their gun killed someone were part of the responsible gun owners).
    How is it that

    I'm new to the table here but I have to ask "How many legal guns are used in violent crimes"?


    Legal or illegal... who cares? Your country is the most armed country in the world and, not coincidently, obliterates every other developed country in gun deaths.

    If you want fewer gun deaths... start the movement to get the guns from the streets. Among many things, the following types of things would likely yield very positive results for your country if implemented:
    - Eliminate 'novelty' guns (those which have no 'practical' purpose- such as hunting- for the typical citizen).
    - Develop comprehensive background checks for new owners.
    - Develop stringent criteria for handgun ownership.
    - Offer attractive 'buy back' incentives to get many existing guns off the streets.
    - Restrict ammunition sales to registered gun owners.

    Of course, there would be no overnight fix. But, in time and at a minimum, difficult access to weapons and ammunition would make it much more difficult for, say, the estranged husband shooting his ex in a drunken moment of anger (and other 'similar' scenarios where people don't have immediate access to a gun to express their fit of rage).

    If you want guns with very little regulation... brace for 30,000+ deaths by gun every year including your two or three national tragedies that have the rest of the world shake our heads somewhat in disbelief.

    I actually agree with some of this.^ I also disagree too but hey...

    I do find it hard to believe that we have 270,000,000 guns and only 300,000,000 people though…

    Eliminate Novelty guns. No, those are the best kind.
    Ammunition restriction? No, then you can't use the novelty guns…
    Background checks. Yes. This actually happens if you buy a new gun no matter where you are in the U.S. whether it's a handgun or rifle there is a background check.
    Stringent Criteria. Yes. I think you should have to take a class for a pellet gun.
    Buy Backs. Yes. This goes on all the time too but to little press in the mainstream. Just local news.

    All great points.

    I do ask as to why we have illegal guns though? Example: A fully automatic Mac 10 costs roughly $2000 and you have to be registered, pay a fee for a background check, pay a gov't stamp fee. So after everything it's $3000.

    You can buy this gun on the streets for $500…

    Something doesn't add up.
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 12,143
    edited July 2014
    Tempo...

    You quoted much there. Unsung and I have had a few exchanges over the years. I only point this out because I think you asked a question from a post I submitted to Unsung that would require me detailing much history of our exchanges- to which I don't wish to tire you with, nor do I want to take the time to do it.

    But you quoted a second post of mine where you agreed and disagreed with portions of it. I have to make a comment with regards to your inquisitiveness regarding the price of a gun on the streets: in general... things that are stolen are sold at a discount rate. The street rate for a stolen gun is cheaper than a gun purchased through legal channels.

    Legal guns stolen become illegal guns. And when you asked the question, "How many legal guns are used in violent crimes?" I would respond that nearly 100% of all violent crimes are committed with guns that for at least one point in their existence were legal.

    * On edit: I wish to correct myself. 100% of all violent crimes are committed with guns that were legal at some point in their existence.
    Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 9,838

    Tempo...

    You quoted much there. Unsung and I have had a few exchanges over the years. I only point this out because I think you asked a question from a post I submitted to Unsung that would require me detailing much history of our exchanges- to which I don't wish to tire you with, nor do I want to take the time to do it.

    But you quoted a second post of mine where you agreed and disagreed with portions of it. I have to make a comment with regards to your inquisitiveness regarding the price of a gun on the streets: in general... things that are stolen are sold at a discount rate. The street rate for a stolen gun is cheaper than a gun purchased through legal channels.

    Legal guns stolen become illegal guns. And when you asked the question, "How many legal guns are used in violent crimes?" I would respond that nearly 100% of all violent crimes are committed with guns that for at least one point in their existence were legal.

    * On edit: I wish to correct myself. 100% of all violent crimes are committed with guns that were legal at some point in their existence.

    " On edit: I wish to correct myself. 100% of all violent crimes are committed with guns that were legal at some point in their existence."

    ^This is pure spin and very disappointing because I know you are educated but what I do see is a one sided answer. This answer won't sway the undecided nor the enthusiasts.

    "things that are stolen are sold at a discount rate. The street rate for a stolen gun is cheaper than a gun purchased through legal channels."

    ^My valid point that in all fairness should be investigated.

    This is a very tough topic and I will try to be brief with answers and am curious about other input.

  • At some point in time, all guns are legal.

    Point being: whether at manufacturing or in the house of a legal owner prior to falling into the wrong hands... guns that eventually kill people started out with- now this is debatable- good intentions.

    What are 'good intentions' with regards to guns? Guns are made for killing things.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 9,497
    unsung said:

    Whatever. Point to a reliable and unbiased study that says crime increased. I won't wait because it doesn't exist.

    Meanwhile the FBI statistics show that when DC banned handguns crime increased, and when the Heller decision was handed down crime rates went down.

    Somehow I think you're the type of guy that calls a climate rainy because it rained one day out of 365.

    Somehow I think you’re blinded by your gun zealotry and desire to see every problem solved by a “legally responsible gun owner.” But that’s just me.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/07/29/more-guns-less-crime-not-exactly/

    Click on the embedded links within the article to get the background info on the point(s) being made.

    From Wikipedia:
    District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held in a 5-4 decision that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution applies to federal enclaves and protects an individual's right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. The decision did not address the question of whether the Second Amendment extends beyond federal enclaves to the states,[1] which was addressed later by McDonald v. Chicago (2010). It was the first Supreme Court case to decide whether the Second Amendment protects an individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense.[2]
    On June 26, 2008, the Supreme Court affirmed the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit in Heller v. District of Columbia.[3][4] The Supreme Court struck down provisions of the Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975 as unconstitutional, determined that handguns are "arms" for the purposes of the Second Amendment, found that the Regulations Act was an unconstitutional ban, and struck down the portion of the Regulations Act that requires all firearms including rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock." "Prior to this decision the Firearms Control Regulation Act of 1975 also restricted residents from owning handguns except for those registered prior to 1975."[5]

    I also think you’re the kind of guy who takes a slight decrease in “crime” and claims its all due to the handgun ban being lifted or concealed carry being allowed. How do you explain the upticks in certain years and in certain categories after 2008 when Heller was handed down in the below table?

    http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Washington-District-of-Columbia.html

    Peace.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 9,497
    unsung said:

    unsung said:

    Whatever. Point to a reliable and unbiased study that says crime increased. I won't wait because it doesn't exist.

    Meanwhile the FBI statistics show that when DC banned handguns crime increased, and when the Heller decision was handed down crime rates went down.

    Somehow I think you're the type of guy that calls a climate rainy because it rained one day out of 365.

    Whatever? hahahaha... that's what my teenager says when he's being insolent upon being pointed out as wrong. I guess my post scored a few points!

    As to your first point... huh? Take a few moments to provide some context for such utterings.

    To your second point... no gun reform has any chance of success within a year, two years, or even five years. The only way to measure any success is through a longitudinal study given the appropriate time to allow for reforms to make the impact intended. I suggest looking at other countries who adopted gun reform measures and the successes they have had after decades of the implementation (Canada and the UK are two off the top of my head).

    To your third point... I offer a counter: somehow I think you're the kind of guy that when someone says, the United States has the highest gun ownership rate in the world and the highest per capita rate of firearm-related murders of all developed countries (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/gun-homicides-ownership/table/)... you blame the police for this fact.

    Oh wait... you do. I remember you saying, "If the police would just do their job."

    And when someone points out that the number of gun deaths typically exceed 32,000 per annum in your country, you blame... hmmm. I'm not even sure who you you'd blame for this whopper. Maybe the 'other guy' (the irresponsible gun owners who right up to the moment their gun killed someone were part of the responsible gun owners).

    Whatever, i.e. the internet equivalent of banging ones head off the wall. Perhaps we should consider why we are doing so... what's the common denominator here?

    Skipping ahead, I have said that the police can be a deterrent, but only if they are used properly. Apparently they are too busy shooting dogs though. I've also stated, and the courts can back me up here, the police have no obligation to protect anyone. That would mean people are responsible for their own safety. The police chief of Detroit has stated that with people carrying guns that crime has dropped. Detroit. Let that sink in.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140716/METRO01/307160034

    Detroit has experienced 37 percent fewer robberies in 2014 than during the same period last year, 22 percent fewer break-ins of businesses and homes, and 30 percent fewer carjackings. Craig attributed the drop to better police work and criminals being reluctant to prey on citizens who may be carrying guns.


    In the meantime keep comparing the US to other countries, while you are at it compare those apples to those oranges.
    Or could it be there are less people to rob? Hasn't Detroit's population dropped precipitously in the last few years? I'd like to see the crime rate per 100,000 inhabitants number before I accept whether crime is down in Detroit and chalking it up to "responsible gun owners."

    Peace.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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