America's Gun Violence

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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 16,125
    mace1229 said:
    KC138045 said:
    mace1229 said:
    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/deer-hunter-who-killed-woman-is-charged-with-manslaughter/ar-BBFZkjF?li=AAggNb9&ocid=edgsp

    Nighttime, neighbourhood, handgun deer hunter charged with shooting his neighbour after he thought she was a deer.
    100% agree with that verdict. He was not legally hunting, so there's no question he is criminally responsible for it. Manslaughter seems like an appropriate charge.
    And the illegal Mexican immigrant who is also a felon was acquitted of killing Kate Steinle in San Francisco.  Not saying the hunter should not of been charged but this guy in California should of been charged as well.  He was wanted by immigration officers and should not of even been allowed to be in the position to shoot and kill this poor girl.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/jury-reaches-verdict-san-francisco-pier-shooting-233343965.html
    He was charged. A jury found him not guilty of murder but guilty on other serious charges. What grounds do you have to argue against this sequence? Are you second guessing the jury's decision? I'm guessing they have more information on the case than you do. 
     
    I agree with that. I agreed with that with all the high profile police cases in the last 2 years as well, but that wasn't a good enough answer for most back then.
    Good post.
    Just saw this. Great minds think alike. :)
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 42,653
    edited December 2017
    Well I think at least some of those cops should have been found guilty, and I think maybe this illegal immigrant guy should have been found guilty too. Sometimes juries get it wrong, for various reasons. Yes Often, you're right, it's possible the jury knows a hell of a lot more than we do... On the other hand, OJ was found innocent and Damiel Echols and his friends were sent to Death Row, and the Hurricane went to prison for years, sooooo...... I don't think we should always blindly support the results of a jury trial. Our justice system is far from infallible.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,423
    PJ_Soul said:
    Well I think at least some of those cops should have been found guilty, and I think maybe this illegal immigrant guy should have been found guilty too. Sometimes juries get it wrong, for various reasons. Yes Often, you're right, it's possible the jury knows a hell of a lot more than we do... On the other hand, OJ was found innocent and Damiel Echols and his friends were sent to Death Row, and the Hurricane went to prison for years, sooooo...... I don't think we should always blindly support the results of a jury trial. Our justice system is far from infallible.
    Oh, I am not arguing that the jury system is infallible. In fact, overall I think the adversarial system is inferior to the inquisitorial system. I also believe that juries get it wrong more than judges do, assuming you're actually talking about a real judge - i.e. someone trained in the law who rises to the bench on merit, not some jackass with political connections who go himself elected. 

    But in this particular case, I don't think there was evidence for a murder verdict. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,423
    Issues related to the justice system per se might be a good topic for a whole other thread, rather than shoehorning it in to the gun violence or police violence or whatever 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 15,898
    edited December 2017
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    KC138045 said:
    mace1229 said:
    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/deer-hunter-who-killed-woman-is-charged-with-manslaughter/ar-BBFZkjF?li=AAggNb9&ocid=edgsp

    Nighttime, neighbourhood, handgun deer hunter charged with shooting his neighbour after he thought she was a deer.
    100% agree with that verdict. He was not legally hunting, so there's no question he is criminally responsible for it. Manslaughter seems like an appropriate charge.
    And the illegal Mexican immigrant who is also a felon was acquitted of killing Kate Steinle in San Francisco.  Not saying the hunter should not of been charged but this guy in California should of been charged as well.  He was wanted by immigration officers and should not of even been allowed to be in the position to shoot and kill this poor girl.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/jury-reaches-verdict-san-francisco-pier-shooting-233343965.html
    He was charged. A jury found him not guilty of murder but guilty on other serious charges. What grounds do you have to argue against this sequence? Are you second guessing the jury's decision? I'm guessing they have more information on the case than you do. 
     
    I agree with that. I agreed with that with all the high profile police cases in the last 2 years as well, but that wasn't a good enough answer for most back then.
    Great post. 
    Except in the high profile police cases, it’s not uncommon for the DA’s office to collude, suppress evidence, not try an aggressive case, withhold evidence, witness tamper or apply undue pressure to influence jurors from the jury to get the desired outcome of acquittal. Because like none of those things have ever happened, particularly if the cop is white and the deceased at the hands of the accused is black. False comparison.
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,423
    KC138045 said:
    KC138045 said:
    mace1229 said:
    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/deer-hunter-who-killed-woman-is-charged-with-manslaughter/ar-BBFZkjF?li=AAggNb9&ocid=edgsp

    Nighttime, neighbourhood, handgun deer hunter charged with shooting his neighbour after he thought she was a deer.
    100% agree with that verdict. He was not legally hunting, so there's no question he is criminally responsible for it. Manslaughter seems like an appropriate charge.
    And the illegal Mexican immigrant who is also a felon was acquitted of killing Kate Steinle in San Francisco.  Not saying the hunter should not of been charged but this guy in California should of been charged as well.  He was wanted by immigration officers and should not of even been allowed to be in the position to shoot and kill this poor girl.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/jury-reaches-verdict-san-francisco-pier-shooting-233343965.html
    He was charged. A jury found him not guilty of murder but guilty on other serious charges. What grounds do you have to argue against this sequence? Are you second guessing the jury's decision? I'm guessing they have more information on the case than you do. 
     

    All they charged him with was being a felon in possession on a fire arm.  I don't need grounds to state my opinion.  Isn't that what we all do on these threads?  He was an illegal immigrant in possession of a stolen gun in a crowded public place.

    Just like the hunter the killing probably was not intentional but it should still be considered manslaughter just like it was with the hunter.
    I don't think you understand the difference between charged and convicted. He was charged with murder, plus a few other things. He was convicted of possession of a firearm. He was acquitted of the murder and manslaughter charges. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,423

    mace1229 said:
    KC138045 said:
    mace1229 said:
    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/deer-hunter-who-killed-woman-is-charged-with-manslaughter/ar-BBFZkjF?li=AAggNb9&ocid=edgsp

    Nighttime, neighbourhood, handgun deer hunter charged with shooting his neighbour after he thought she was a deer.
    100% agree with that verdict. He was not legally hunting, so there's no question he is criminally responsible for it. Manslaughter seems like an appropriate charge.
    And the illegal Mexican immigrant who is also a felon was acquitted of killing Kate Steinle in San Francisco.  Not saying the hunter should not of been charged but this guy in California should of been charged as well.  He was wanted by immigration officers and should not of even been allowed to be in the position to shoot and kill this poor girl.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/jury-reaches-verdict-san-francisco-pier-shooting-233343965.html
    He was charged. A jury found him not guilty of murder but guilty on other serious charges. What grounds do you have to argue against this sequence? Are you second guessing the jury's decision? I'm guessing they have more information on the case than you do. 
     
    I agree with that. I agreed with that with all the high profile police cases in the last 2 years as well, but that wasn't a good enough answer for most back then.
    So which of the high profile police shootings actually went to a jury trial, versus just having an internal police investigation?  My memory is not clear on that, but my recollection is that most of the outrage was over police never even being charged. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,802
    edited December 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    Well I think at least some of those cops should have been found guilty, and I think maybe this illegal immigrant guy should have been found guilty too. Sometimes juries get it wrong, for various reasons. Yes Often, you're right, it's possible the jury knows a hell of a lot more than we do... On the other hand, OJ was found innocent and Damiel Echols and his friends were sent to Death Row, and the Hurricane went to prison for years, sooooo...... I don't think we should always blindly support the results of a jury trial. Our justice system is far from infallible.
    I agree, but those cases are very different, there was so much more information readily available. The whole OJ trial took over daytime TV. Multiple documentaries were made about the WM3. We know a lot more about many cases where it is commonly accepted the jury got it wrong.
    I'll admit I read 1 or maybe 2 articles about the Kate Steinly case (not even enough to remember if I spelled her name correctly). So I can form an opinion about it, but my feelings won;t be very strong until I read further into it. I linked it to those cop trials because how many rioting over the verdict do you think read more than a few headlines about what happened? I'm guessing very few. Where at this point the jury has heard weeks of testimony compared to my few minutes of news headlines. So until I know more, I have to assume there was some important information that persuaded the jury. Its seems like there should have been manslaughter, but like I said, I can't feel too strongly about it until I know more about the case. And honestly, I probably will never research the details of the case myself so I have to accept the verdict.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,802
    edited December 2017

    mace1229 said:
    KC138045 said:
    mace1229 said:
    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/deer-hunter-who-killed-woman-is-charged-with-manslaughter/ar-BBFZkjF?li=AAggNb9&ocid=edgsp

    Nighttime, neighbourhood, handgun deer hunter charged with shooting his neighbour after he thought she was a deer.
    100% agree with that verdict. He was not legally hunting, so there's no question he is criminally responsible for it. Manslaughter seems like an appropriate charge.
    And the illegal Mexican immigrant who is also a felon was acquitted of killing Kate Steinle in San Francisco.  Not saying the hunter should not of been charged but this guy in California should of been charged as well.  He was wanted by immigration officers and should not of even been allowed to be in the position to shoot and kill this poor girl.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/jury-reaches-verdict-san-francisco-pier-shooting-233343965.html
    He was charged. A jury found him not guilty of murder but guilty on other serious charges. What grounds do you have to argue against this sequence? Are you second guessing the jury's decision? I'm guessing they have more information on the case than you do. 
     
    I agree with that. I agreed with that with all the high profile police cases in the last 2 years as well, but that wasn't a good enough answer for most back then.
    So which of the high profile police shootings actually went to a jury trial, versus just having an internal police investigation?  My memory is not clear on that, but my recollection is that most of the outrage was over police never even being charged. 
    Off the top of my head without looking any of them up, Darren Wilson, which sort of started it all, went to a Grand Jury (where the defendant has little or no defense, and the level of proof is much, much lower than compared to a trial jury). The Baltimore 6 went to jury too. Pretty much none of those verdict were accepted by large groups of people.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,802
    The reaction to the OJ trial still baffles me. Not the verdict, but the reaction to it.
    My dad was a cop in LA duuring the first riots, and he was still a cop there when the OJ verdict was read. They were prepared for riots even worse than the first if he was found guilty, they were ready to watch the city burn. Some believe some the jury got it wrong on purpose for that reason.
    The verdict was read live across the country, from downtown LA to Time Square in NY. And if you watch news clips of the reactions, for the most part it was divided by color. Large groups of white people looked disgusted, and the large groups of blacks were jumping up and down cheering, as if their team just won the NBA championship. I remember being in High School when it was read and it was the same there. Most of the black students jumped on top of the lunch tables cheering.
    It only took a year or two for that case to become the iconic case it is and pretty much everyone, including most black people today, knows he got away with it. But at the time all that was seen was color. Maybe white people just got lucky they ended up on the correct side, I dont know, but it was obvious that a staggering amount of blacks cheered for his freedom, and there is no doubt in my mind that if he was guilty there would have been riots that matched, or even surpassed, the LA riots of just a few years earlier. 
    At least with the Darren Wilson case, it seems very similar to me (but with the opposite outcome).
  • Another “responsible” gun owner having a bad day?

    http://m.cnn.com/en/article/h_171a60e0cdcd893d1e4582071ed837dc
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • stuckinlinestuckinline Posts: 2,350
    Is this a way to 'Make America Great Again'?

    The GOP’s Latest Gun Bill Would Be Catastrophic For Women Fleeing Abuse

    A potential nightmare situation for victims of domestic violence is brewing in the U.S. House, which is expected to vote this week on a bill that would allow many domestic abusers banned from carrying firearms in their home states to obtain concealed carrypermits elsewhere.

    The bill, from Rep. Richard Hudson (R-N.C.), allows anyone with a permit from one state to carry hidden, loaded firearms into all other states. Opponents of the legislation, known as the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, warn that it would allow the states with the loosest permitting standards to define the laws of the nation and would undermine states’ rights to protect their own residents.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/concealed-carry-gun-bill-domestic-violence_us_5a26d1cce4b06d807b4f8a63?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,802
    edited December 2017
    Is this a way to 'Make America Great Again'?

    The GOP’s Latest Gun Bill Would Be Catastrophic For Women Fleeing Abuse

    A potential nightmare situation for victims of domestic violence is brewing in the U.S. House, which is expected to vote this week on a bill that would allow many domestic abusers banned from carrying firearms in their home states to obtain concealed carrypermits elsewhere.

    The bill, from Rep. Richard Hudson (R-N.C.), allows anyone with a permit from one state to carry hidden, loaded firearms into all other states. Opponents of the legislation, known as the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, warn that it would allow the states with the loosest permitting standards to define the laws of the nation and would undermine states’ rights to protect their own residents.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/concealed-carry-gun-bill-domestic-violence_us_5a26d1cce4b06d807b4f8a63?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

    There are very few states that will grant a concealed weapons permit without being a resident. Virginia I think is one, I'm not even sure if there is a second, but there might be a few others.
    I would be for that law if being a resident in a state became a requirement for obtaining a permit in all states, and with the exception of just 1 or 2 states that already is the case. Get the couple states to require residency, and this bill doesn't apply to the situation described. 

    *I just looked at a list, I was surprised to see several states do not require residency.  So there are more options than I orginaly thought.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,802
    After looking at requirements for several states I found that each of those states denied a permit if you were convicted of assault or domestic violence, along with a list of numerous other disqualifiers. Even Virginia, which I've always heard was one of the easiest to obtain an out of state license. 
    So I really don't see how it would have this catastrophic impact the heading made it out to be. Most who are impacted by what that article is claiming would be denied a permit to begin with.
    For the record, I don't see the point in an out of state license, but I can see a point in honoring another state's license when you travel. Apply in your own state.
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 5,288
    Guns don't  kill people


    Gun owners children kill people......


    Aztec High School: 3 dead in New Mexico school shooting
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 3,743
    Guns don't  kill people


    Gun owners well regulated militia-children kill people......


    Aztec High School: 3 dead in New Mexico school shooting
    ftfy
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18
  • This is hilarious:



    Seriously... very very funny. And accurate. Don't watch if you are sensitive about maintaining the status quo with regards to gun ownership.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • 09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • tbergstbergs Posts: 4,851
    It's a hopeless situation...

  • That day made me feel worse than 9-11. It was a real punch to the gut.

    The response... or better yet 'non' response... was shocking.

    * Has anyone watched that clip I posted? It's really good. It's got a reference to Sandy Hook as well.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 4,851

    That day made me feel worse than 9-11. It was a real punch to the gut.

    The response... or better yet 'non' response... was shocking.

    * Has anyone watched that clip I posted? It's really good. It's got a reference to Sandy Hook as well.
    Yes.I love that clip. Seen it before, but still relevant as ever.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • tbergs said:

    That day made me feel worse than 9-11. It was a real punch to the gut.

    The response... or better yet 'non' response... was shocking.

    * Has anyone watched that clip I posted? It's really good. It's got a reference to Sandy Hook as well.
    Yes.I love that clip. Seen it before, but still relevant as ever.

    Cheers!
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Now that’s some brilliantly serious leadership of brilliance, right there.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/14/politics/guns-white-house-sandy-hook/index.html
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • 09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • Just “responsible” gun owners exercising their first amendment rights.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/14/opinion/gun-buybacks-newtown-anniversary.html
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,423
    This is what happens when a Republican with significant experience of firearms and the damage that they cause speaks out honestly about gun control in the US:

    http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-thursday-edition-1.4460458/retired-u-s-colonel-stands-by-gun-control-comments-that-cost-him-a-senate-confirmation-1.4460474

    A retired U.S. air force colonel and flight surgeon says he doesn't regret speaking out about gun control, even though it cost him his dream job. 

    Dean L. Winslow withdrew his name for consideration for U.S. assistant secretary of defence for health affairs after his confirmation was put on indefinite hold over his controversial remarks.

    At his Senate hearing the day after a mass shooting at a church in Sunderland Springs, Texas, Winslow called it "insane" that U.S. citizens can buy semi-automatic weapons.

    Republican Sen. John McCain quickly interrupted, warning the doctor that gun control is outside his "area of responsibility or expertise."

    Winslow, who has since written about experience for the Washington Post, spoke with As It Happens guest host Helen Mann about why he stands by what he said. Here is part of that conversation.

    Had you gone into that hearing thinking about [the shooting] or intending to say anything along the line of what you said?

    I literally found out about the shooting when I got off the plane at Washington Dulles Airport — and it was, of course, quite a shock.

    There was such a tremendous loss of innocent lives and it seemed particularly obscene to me that it occurred in a house of worship

    What do you make of the interjection by Sen. McCain?

    I have the greatest respect for Sen. McCain and I was actually quite surprised that he felt so strongly that I should not comment.

    The job, assistant secretary of defence for health care, has actually no responsibility for civilian gun control. That's really not, as he correctly states, in my area of responsibility.

    However, I was being asked directly by [Democratic] Sen. [Jeanne] Shaheen what, basically, could be done to prevent instances like this happening in the future.

    Sen. McCain didn't just say it wasn't in your area of responsibility. He said it wasn't in your area of expertise. You're a doctor. You've served in the military. You're a marksman. What impact can these weapons have?

    These weapons, they're really designed primarily for one purpose, which is to kill human beings. I think most people agree that they're not optimal weapons for hunting. And even in the unlikely event of a home invasion, it's actually probably not even the best weapon for that use either.

    So my concern came from the perspective of a doctor who's familiar with these weapons. I feel personally comfortable around them, but these are military weapons, in my opinion, and really do not have a place, at least in an unrestricted environment, in people's hands

    As a doctor, what kind of damage have you seen from them?

    I deployed four times to Iraq and twice to Afghanistan so I've certainly seen first-hand the devastating sorts of injuries that assault weapons do to human beings — the saddest of which, honestly, was being called to the morgue on a base in Baghdad almost every night during the surge to pronounce death in coalition soldiers who had died in combat that day.

    I won't describe to you what those injuries are like, but they're very horrific

    What happened after the hearing?

    Essentially, my confirmation was put on hold by the Senate armed services committee. 

    And were you given any reason for that delay?

    I was told by the Pentagon legislative affairs team that it was, No. 1, because of my comment about assault weapons in civilian hands.

    So the confirmation was delayed. How long did that go on? Did you have communications with them to see what was happening?

    When I spoke to [Defence Secretary] Gen. [Jim] Mattis about two weeks ago, I wanted him to know that I felt very strongly that we needed someone in that position ... and that our servicemen and women deserve that, and that I did not want this to be drawn out any further.

    So I offered to Secretary Mattis that I withdraw my name from nomination and he agreed that that would be, at this point, the best course of action.Are you disappointed you won't be able to hold the position?

    This would have been a very challenging and very important job that I would have enjoyed doing.

    Looking back over the process, do you regret speaking out about semi-automatic and automatic weapons?

    I stand by what I said.

    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 4,851
    Said in an angry Ed snarl, "You have the right to free speech. As long as you're not dumb enough to actually try it!"
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • 09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • Any reason why this year will be different? Big spike in gun sales on Black Friday. So, two years later, up or down?

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/28/guns-killed-more-people-on-christmas-in-the-u-s-than-in-an-entire-year-in-these-countries/
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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