Concerned: Possible Fraud (hopefully not)

GhostChile

Hello everyone:

First of all, my apologies for putting this case in public, I know that has nothing to do with all the enthusiasm and good vibes there by the European Tour. But I think I have no choice. I need to hear your opinions!
In December 2013, when PJ announced their European tour, I searched the forums for a Chilean (I lived in Chile) who participated in the draw for tickets of 10C and found one , which I contacted immediately and asked for tickets for Milan - Trieste - Vienna- Berlin- Oslo – Stockholm. He requested me to transfer him the money saying that this was the only way he could save me those tickets. So I paid (I can attached the screenshot of that, but I just don’t want to reveal his name yet).
It may sound a little crazy, but the truth is that in the 15 years I've been meeting people through PJ , I have had only good experiences , so I did not hesitate . We talked on the phone a couple of times, we connected on Facebook, and we agreed that later we coordinate the trip to go together.
In early January, my wife and I received a tremendous new: We are going to be parents for the 2nd time  .. So, as sad as it gets, immediately I had to cancel my trip, thinking that in June we will have almost 7 months pregnant and I want to be here with my family.
So I talked to my “seller" to explain the situation. He had no problem , he said.

I posted my case in the Facebook PJ Group , and several of you congratulated me and then a bunch of you contacted me to request info about the tickets. I wishfully tried to sell them in the same way that my "seller" did to me , but obviously no one wanted to do business with me because the holder of the tickets is not me. I then understood that I was in trouble.
Several people, kindly explained me that I had made a mistake by paying in advance and that the right thing to do now is to request my money back . This is where the story gets confusing.

My "seller” said he has no money, but ask me to seek buyers. I explained that I had already contacted several (like 30) “buyers” but no one would do business with me. He would have to negotiate. So I got in touch with a person who was very interested in accessing all “my " tickets. I created a chat between the 3, and my “seller" just left the conversation. Then scolded me telling me I was wrong, telling other people about our arrangement. He even gets angry with me. It looks like he was embarrassing by other people knowing he has requested me to pay him in advanced. He knows he was wrong asking me to paid him in advanced!

So I wait all February, expecting him to contact me, to offer me a solution or at least to chat how to resolve. Nothing.

Now in March, I contacted him again, and he told me he was probably not even going to the shows, so in his opinion, my money was not refundable because the 10C wouldn’t refund him either. I thought “WTF”?

Then he told me that when he collected money he would give it back to me , but when I asked if he had and estimated payment date, he began with a disrespectful attitude , saying I was an irresponsible guy , that it was not his fault that my wife is pregnant and he wouldn’t talk about this anymore.

So, this is the situation nowdays , not knowing if he's going or not going to the shows , he scaring off potential buyers , not knowing if he will return me the money or not.

Thank God I will not die by losing a thousand dollars, but I´m sure I would be acting different in his position, helping to connect people, returning the money back, or even calling him to clarify things. A friend asked me: “What if now you decided to go to the shows? And the seller keeps avoiding you?”. Worst, What if I decided to go, and he is not going?

Really, I don’t have the time neither the spirit of controversy. Just want all you to know this case. I run my little company for 8 years now and thanks to that I learned how to react when I lose/win money. Sometimes you have nothing to do. Money goes, money come. But that applies to business! Business doesn’t have a soul. I think it’s different here (it feels a lot different), where we are supposed to be kind with each other’s. I´m a little worry on how will this story ends. Of course, I will post his name here and everywhere if he fraud me, but I will also let all of you know if he changes his attitude and refund my money soon. I even offer him to pay me $USD 250/month (March-April-May-June), but I have no answer.

Well, thanks for reading. And I would appreciate your opinions about this!

hrd2imgn

Sounds like you are not getting anything back my man, sometimes the ticket trade is a cruel game. All you can do is stay cordial and keep trying to contact him. Ask him what he is doing with the tickets that he supposedly bought? If he is selling them, then why can;t he give you at least a partial refund? Post his name, let the board eat him alive

2-feign-reluctance

Be wary of posting your drama, names of people on here. Mods tend to dislike it because inevitably these threads get sprinkled with enough gnarly comments that they have 'seen enough' & bye bye thread. Good luck with this particular situation & congrats on the new addition.

eddiec

I think I remember this sale on FB. I asked about a Trieste ticket and was told i was sold. I thought the sale had gone well and all tickets were sold. I guess not. That sucks, hope you can work something out.

FoxyRedLa

I'm sending good vibes your way Ghost. I just don't have anything nice to say - so no comment.

given2fly23

I asked this in your other thread too, but how did you pay?

PJ_Soul

That sucks.... but since you paid in advance and then cancelled, I'd say you're shit out of luck. They guy obviously already spent the money, and doesn't want to deal with all the complications of trying to find new buyers. In a way I don't blame him. You committed to buying his tix when you paid him. Him having to broker a bunch of new deals with a bunch of people from facebook wasn't part of it. Sounds like a pain in the ass. And I definitely don't blame others for balking at the idea of dealing with you as a middle man. But no way should he have asked you to pay in advance, especially not if you were meeting and traveling together! I don't know why he got so worked up about it, and starting getting so mad at you, but given that he did, it's probably good that you're not stuck traveling all over Europe with him anyway!
Well, lesson learned, right? Don't pre-pay random people for tix.

Congrats on the new baby coming!!

Leezestarr313

I had spare tickets for a European show and sold them to another fan for face. I wanted the person to pay before, because I wanted to close the sale in my mind and know that I have sold them for good. The flights are booked and we will be there. We will meet the person at the venue and they will get their tickets. This was only one pair though. If the person would come out and say they cannot make it anymore, I would pay them back and try to sell the tickets otherwise. I don't think wanting the money beforehand is a bad thing. It makes it safe for both sides.

I feel the OP's pain though, because he paid a lot of money to one person. I only sold one pair of tickets. I do think that it is not cool how the person whom he sent his cash to is acting right now. I hope you will get this resolved, OP. And congrats on your family addition.

PJ_Soul

Did i forget to say that the guy should pay you back? He should. At least give you money when he sells the tix to someone else if he doesn't have it now (if he goes...).

PJfanwillneverleave1

PJ_Soul said:

Did i forget to say that the guy should pay you back? He should. At least give you money when he sells the tix to someone else if he doesn't have it now (if he goes...).

^This

Leezestarr313

Well of course he should give him the money back! What are people thinking?! I could not sleep if I ever acted like that.

PJ_Soul

Leezestarr313 said:

I had spare tickets for a European show and sold them to another fan for face. I wanted the person to pay before, because I wanted to close the sale in my mind and know that I have sold them for good. The flights are booked and we will be there. We will meet the person at the venue and they will get their tickets. This was only one pair though. If the person would come out and say they cannot make it anymore, I would pay them back and try to sell the tickets otherwise. I don't think wanting the money beforehand is a bad thing. It makes it safe for both sides.

I feel the OP's pain though, because he paid a lot of money to one person. I only sold one pair of tickets. I do think that it is not cool how the person whom he sent his cash to is acting right now. I hope you will get this resolved, OP. And congrats on your family addition.

Paying money beforehand isn't safe for the buyer at all. Of course you can be trusted Leeze, but most people are buying tix from people they don't know and have no real idea if they can trust the seller or not. The thing about pre-paying for 10c tix is that all of the risk lies with the buyer. They can get scammed and that's that. If the seller doesn't appear with tix on the day of the show for whatever reason (scammer, car breaks down, illness, plane delayyed, they die before game day, etc), the buyer is screwed, has no way to get their money back other than hope the person is honest and has the funds (as long as they are alive and conscious and functional), and might miss the show altogether as well, whether it be that they can't find more tix or all of their ticket money is still in the seller's pocket.

But the seller has options if the buyer doesn't show day of the concert. If the seller doesn't get prepaid for the tix, they still have the tix in hand and can sell them at the venue or a preparty. Chances are slim to none that a seller would simply be out the money they paid for the tix if the buyer doesn't show unless they really aren't trying. You can always find a buyer for 10c tix. That's why i think money and actual tix should always just be exchanged in person (unless you're already friends with each other... In which case there is no reason to get prepaid for the tix anyway). It's the only safe way... If someone asked me to prepay for 10c tix - so my getting them is 100% reliant on that person making it to the venue on the day of the show in a world where shit happens - i'd find another seller.

KateA

I am on both sides of the fence. I'm buying ticket to a show from someone I don't know and I'm also selling a ticket to another show to someone I don't know. The way we worked it out is we paid a small deposit towards the ticket price to show our commitment. The seller is assured that the buyer shows up and the buyer is not risking too much. I guess for GhostChile it is unfortunately too late for that.
I wish you good luck with the refund and congrats on the new baby!

PJ_Soul

A small deposit (with the agreement that the seller will give it back if they end up not being able to go) is reasonable. Most scammers would not bother with such a thing.

GivenToLukinKP

I have sold tickets to shows beforehand on a few occasions- i always want payment up front. No one has ever given me a hard time but if they did i would have been open to deposit before to hold and balance at the time i hand the tickets over. I have also bought tickets ahead of time and not had problems when it came to the day of the show.

I am with you Lisa- how could anyone sleep if they did that to someone else? A lot of assholes in this world!

OP- very sorry for this horrible experience you are having. Congrats on the new baby coming- best wishes to you and your family. And I really hope you get your money back somehow.

Leezestarr313

PJ_Soul, I do see your point. I don't know the buyer personally either. I found the person on facebook. So the person has to trust me in this, but I think we are fine. I just felt better having the money up front. And I have bought tix so myself several times too. No problem ever. A small deposit is a good idea and doesn't hurt anybody.

callen

Sorry ghost, you broke the contract by pulling out so your loss. Now if other guy does sell them and is cool, he'll send you some cash but he shouldn't feel obligated to work at selling and people shouldn't jump on him. I would change thread title removing word "fraud".

GhostChile

Thanks everyone for your opinions and congrats. Let´s see what happened. I will try to get my money back, as hard as it seems.

Suziemay

First of all, congratulations on the new baby!

In my opinion, I think you calling this fraud is a bit strong. I agree it's a sucky situation, however if you had gotten tickets through 10c, you would have been eating the cost anyway. Why the person you got the ticket from decided to sell his other ticket when he himself wasn't sure if he was going is beyond me and isn't cool. It's unfortunate that it was for multiple shows and not just one, otherwise I would advise you to just walk away.

With regards to pre-paying, I ALWAYS pre-pay when I get tickets off someone. Otherwise there's nothing holding the seller to the deal. I know it's probably largely psychological but it seems more douchey for someone to offer a ticket they've already sold to someone else when money has been exchanged. When I'm the one selling, I tend to ask as well just because of cashflow issues. I always make sure I work out details with the buyer down to what time I want to meet to do the ticket handoff so there's no misunderstanding. I've had good experiences buying/selling tickets with folks on this board.

Good luck GhostChile, hope you get your money back. If you don't, probably just chalk it up to a life lesson, albeit an expensive one.

EdsonNascimento

PJ_Soul said:

Did i forget to say that the guy should pay you back? He should. At least give you money when he sells the tix to someone else if he doesn't have it now (if he goes...).

I only think that's true if the owner actually sells his ticket. Why should the original owner be stuck if neither of them can legitemately go? Isn't the OP in effect in the same position he is in? You can say all you want that he found another buyer, but ultimately they were both in the - if you don't go you eat your ticket position - why should the OP have an out clause?

Very unfortunate, but I have to say - short of the owner selling the ticket, I don't think he owes the OP a dime.

PJ_Soul

EdsonNascimento said:

PJ_Soul said:

Did i forget to say that the guy should pay you back? He should. At least give you money when he sells the tix to someone else if he doesn't have it now (if he goes...).

I only think that's true if the owner actually sells his ticket. Why should the original owner be stuck if neither of them can legitemately go? Isn't the OP in effect in the same position he is in? You can say all you want that he found another buyer, but ultimately they were both in the - if you don't go you eat your ticket position - why should the OP have an out clause?

Very unfortunate, but I have to say - short of the owner selling the ticket, I don't think he owes the OP a dime.

I agree that callin this fraud is way overboard. If the OP had bought the tix from 10c and then decide not to go, 10c wouldn't be giving any refund, so this guy certainly isn't under any obligation. Just saying it would be nice of the guy to send back the money if he sells the tix to someone else (yeah, if he doesn't go either, then no, since he's already spent the money anyway).
I am still surprised so many think prepaying for tix when dealingnwith strangers is a good idea though... No one in their right mind would do that with some scalper on Craigslist, yet just because they are 10c tix and on FB instead of CL it's all good? Trusting souls! Not only in strangers, but in fate. Just the fact that the seller might get delayed for some legit reason and cann/t get to the show even though theirnintentions were good is enough to keep me from prepaying for tix (or asking someone to prepay, if i'm selling - meeting the person day of the show and exchanging totally works for me, since the very worst that could happen to me is having to turn around and be forced sell to a scalper if there aren't any buyers around).

SZ303389

lesson learned, street smarts my friend.

SZ303389

DTA

GhostChile

Ok. This is not a hope of revenge or a reaction without thinking. This is a public service announcement. Be careful if you are doing any kind of transaction with Jota McReady (real name Juan Pablo Lopez Gutierrez). Yes, the guy who went onstage with PJ here in Chile in 2011 and 2013.
For you who have read my 1st posting, I will tell you that the last episodes of this story were almost absurd. The man inventing diseases about their parents, telling me he is on the South of Chile helping his father , while he was actually in Argentina following Soundgarden and prior to that going to Lollapalooza in Chile , however urging me he has no money nor work . In Argentina he even went shopping musical instruments. I could keep going with other little lies he told me, but I think you get the picture.
So, my speculations end here. Juan Pablo is definitely going to Europe, even when he insists that he´s not, and he will resell my tickets to continue to be financed through others. He obviously is not refunding me any money at all.
It's a shame; however I acknowledge my mistake in trusting so blindly in him, just for being part of this “community." Lesson learned.
That recognized, nothing justifies his attitude trough this 4 month of me trying to get honest answers from him. He took advantage of the situation and I think this kind of thing needs to be public. In 4 months, he didn’t call me; he didn’t contact me at all. All the time it was me trying to get in touch with him, receiving ambiguous answers.
So, there it is. Thanks to all of you in advance. Enjoy those shows, I´m off to work and closing this sad chapter now. Sorry for my bad english!

Wilds

Sorry GhostChile. In this case it does sound like fraud. At least you have the chance to warn others about this guy.

dustinpardue

You have a picture of him? We can find him outside and beat his ass in an alley.

a5pj

That sucks.

Good on you for calling him out after giving him more than enough time to come clean. At least other pj fans won't be taken advantage of.

Too bad about your money though, no way to get it back... expensive lesson...

PJ_Soul

The guy's name is oddly similar to that scumbag's from The Bachelor, lol.

cbermeosolo

GhostChile said:

Ok. This is not a hope of revenge or a reaction without thinking. This is a public service announcement. Be careful if you are doing any kind of transaction with Jota McReady (real name Juan Pablo Lopez Gutierrez). Yes, the guy who went onstage with PJ here in Chile in 2011 and 2013.
For you who have read my 1st posting, I will tell you that the last episodes of this story were almost absurd. The man inventing diseases about their parents, telling me he is on the South of Chile helping his father , while he was actually in Argentina following Soundgarden and prior to that going to Lollapalooza in Chile , however urging me he has no money nor work . In Argentina he even went shopping musical instruments. I could keep going with other little lies he told me, but I think you get the picture.
So, my speculations end here. Juan Pablo is definitely going to Europe, even when he insists that he´s not, and he will resell my tickets to continue to be financed through others. He obviously is not refunding me any money at all.
It's a shame; however I acknowledge my mistake in trusting so blindly in him, just for being part of this “community." Lesson learned.
That recognized, nothing justifies his attitude trough this 4 month of me trying to get honest answers from him. He took advantage of the situation and I think this kind of thing needs to be public. In 4 months, he didn’t call me; he didn’t contact me at all. All the time it was me trying to get in touch with him, receiving ambiguous answers.
So, there it is. Thanks to all of you in advance. Enjoy those shows, I´m off to work and closing this sad chapter now. Sorry for my bad english!

Si es así: Qué mala, compadre. Ánimo!

weddingparade

wow 4 months of trying to contact him without a response. that is seriously bad news
AND the guy gets pulled up on stage twice by pj. WTF
there must be a youtube link somewhere of him

sorry to hear/read this story