I guess I'm saying the understanding that the plane was deliberately diverted AND hidden from radar (even MSM now admits it deliberately "skirted" radar) seems to negate the notion of it being where they are claiming these pings are coming from. As in, why would someone hijack a plane to fly it from Malaysia to south of Australia when literally nothing is in that direction except a giant hunk of ice. Clearly it was not headed to the Cobra Command base down there, as it has been in disrepair since the 80's.
I hate to accuse TPTB of a massive conspiracy to lie about the plane's final resting place, but the pieces just don't seem to add up.
You can't really claim that this plane was just lost and flying desperately off course because it deliberately broke contact and evaded radar, and you can't claim it was a ghost plane flying with a dead crew, because a voice is known to have said "goodnight" AFTER half the systems had been disabled and the route changed.
All this leads me to be forced to the conclusion that the current search operation is completely bogus, based on false information coming from (or through) Inmarsat (the bastard child of Comsat, which itself is now wholly owned by Lockheed-Martin)
Something is REALLY screwball here. Also the *immediately* "discredited" (by MSM, with NO proof) claims from the Maldives of a low flying plane matching MH370's description, when what is directly south east of the Maldives is, in fact, Diego-Garcia, strikes me as just super-duper fishy, especially when the plane's last known baring was pointed more or less directly towards that base, the Rolls-Royce reports of engine pings and the last random comm-blip from MH370 put it at another 5-7 hours in the air, more or less exactly what you'd need to get to D-G, AND the fact that the pilot had D-G in his flight simulator have me really really scratching my head going, "WTF IS GOING ON HERE?"
Post edited by DriftingByTheStorm on
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
You know, I was going to ask about an absolute lack of debris myself yesterday, but felt that I wasn't enough qualified in the physics of a plane slamming in to water to really get at it (although, honestly, I feel, it's pretty simple - plane smashes in to water - millions of small pieces everywhere, many of them floating) ...
I find these "solutions" to be uncompelling, to say the least. The notion that a highly skilled pilot shut off all communications and dodged radar and flew a plane for 6 hours on the run simply to "softly land in the ocean", sink, and die makes literally NO sense. Why not just nose dive it on your flight path and save everyone the trouble. WTF
The cyclone excuse is at least somewhat plausible, but I still call bullshit, and it stinks of desperately seeking to make up excuses for why not a SINGLE GOD DAMN PIECE of the plane has yet to be found.
Argument of mine, and many of the family members it seems: because the fucking plane is still 100% intact, SOMEWHERE.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
ya ...combine that with another day another ping heard ... sort of like another day another possible weapons cache ... it feels like the same playbook ...
You can continue to point to parallels with Iraq a weapons of mass destruction with a missing plane, and I can continue to wonder what the hell you are going on about.
But please, continue away with the wild speculation.
and you can continue with cutting down the dialogue ... like - what is your purpose! here? ...
Trying to keep the dialogue in the realm of common sense. I can have an opinion too, I just don't think it requires a tin foil hat.
no ... honestly ... you're being a dick ... just because people have different opinions than you doesn't mean they are out of the realm of common sense ... you are basically telling a bunch of the family members that they are fools ...
feel free to counter the discussion ... but simply making snide remarks doesn't actually serve a purpose in the dialogue ... there are a lot of people who obviously have different opinions but they don't feel the need to cut people with different opinions down ...
But please, continue away with the wild speculation.
and you can continue with cutting down the dialogue ... like - what is your purpose! here? ...
Trying to keep the dialogue in the realm of common sense. I can have an opinion too, I just don't think it requires a tin foil hat.
no ... honestly ... you're being a dick ... just because people have different opinions than you doesn't mean they are out of the realm of common sense ... you are basically telling a bunch of the family members that they are fools ...
feel free to counter the discussion ... but simply making snide remarks doesn't actually serve a purpose in the dialogue ... there are a lot of people who obviously have different opinions but they don't feel the need to cut people with different opinions down ...
You seem to be really trying to make this personal.
Go back and look, I at no point asked you why you are here. But continue to play the victim.
i can read ... perhaps you should too ... you just remind me of someone who tries to discount people's personal opinions by using tired rhetoric instead of actually discussing it ...
read the thread ... we get that what your opinions are - why the need to label others as tin foil, not common sense or otherwise?
I will keep posting articles and facts as they are known at the time about this story. I will go wherever the evidence goes. If it leads to the plane being found on a secret island somewhere, then that's where I will lean.
I think it is irresponsible and unfair to the families and people involved in the search to do anything else. That is where you and me differ.
You can do whatever you want. (except making this about me as per posting guidelines)
So the batteries on the black box are good for 30 days, and their getting a pinging in day 34-35. This thing does not make any sense. So if the airplane hasn't crashed a lot of $$$ are being spent looking for nothing.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
So the batteries on the black box are good for 30 days, and their getting a pinging in day 34-35. This thing does not make any sense. So if the airplane hasn't crashed a lot of $$$ are being spent looking for nothing.
They have said from day 1 that the batteries could last longer depending on many factors, not an exact science.
I will keep posting articles and facts as they are known at the time about this story. I will go wherever the evidence goes. If it leads to the plane being found on a secret island somewhere, then that's where I will lean.
I think it is irresponsible and unfair to the families and people involved in the search to do anything else. That is where you and me differ.
You can do whatever you want. (except making this about me as per posting guidelines)
then kindly refrain from the tin foil, not common sense comments ... because you're the one making it personal by slagging people who also have read the same evidence as you and have come to alternative conclusions ...
oh dear ... so, half the families believe the plane is still intact and you are calling us irresponsible now!?? ... seriously - lay off the guilt and accusations ...
So the batteries on the black box are good for 30 days, and their getting a pinging in day 34-35. This thing does not make any sense. So if the airplane hasn't crashed a lot of $$$ are being spent looking for nothing.
They have to ping for a minimum of 30 days per regulations but they have said that most will ping for up to twice that.
I will keep posting articles and facts as they are known at the time about this story. I will go wherever the evidence goes. If it leads to the plane being found on a secret island somewhere, then that's where I will lean.
I think it is irresponsible and unfair to the families and people involved in the search to do anything else. That is where you and me differ.
Hey dignin, question and a couple of points to frame it. What exactly do you think the evidence points to at this time? My speculations, at least, are based on the overwhelming evidence that the plane had its communications systems deliberately shut down and the flight navigation waypoints manually altered in the computer all at precisely the critical moments in time when the plane was being handed over to another airspace. Instead of checking in with Vietnam, the play did a u-turn and went on the lamb. This turn was manually pre-altered in the flight system, and the moves to disable the comm systems were done right on top of this.
Saying it is "irresponsible to the families" is somewhat of a farce because 30plus members of at least 19 separate Chinese passengers have been ranting and railing "tinfoil hat" notions and holding up incredibly accusatory / conspiratorial signs since last month. Even the American girlfriend of the American IBM engineer has said point blank on CNN, she believes the flight was "abducted", that it is still in tact, and that there is an entire series of lies being spun around it. She actually went so far as to say this belief (that the plane was abducted and in tact) is the "common theme" that "binds the families".
So I find it hard to swallow the notion that anyone here is disrespecting the family members of the passengers simply by reiterating talking points that they themselves have been trying desperately to get the world to pay attention to. go back and look at the photo I posted earlier, "hand us the murderers", "return our relatives", "tell the world the truth" ..., really not mincing words there, and that is coming from, again, 30+ family members of 19 or more individual passengers.
And, repeating the question, where do you think the evidence points at this time?
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
The likeliest solution has always been that this plane is at the bottom of the ocean. The ocean is both vast and deep, so the lack of wreckage, to me, has never seemed that strange. Not given the likely crash zone. Had this plane been flying over Long Island Sound when it went down it would be a different story.
My heart breaks for both the victims and their families. To have the search drag on this long, with no definitive answers, must be beyond tortuous. I would imagine many of them are desperate for answers and not thinking clearly. I would give them all much leeway to voice any and all of their concerns, but I would also take most of those claims with a grain of salt.
The likeliest solution has always been that this plane is at the bottom of the ocean. The ocean is both vast and deep, so the lack of wreckage, to me, has never seemed that strange. Not given the likely crash zone. Had this plane been flying over Long Island Sound when it went down it would be a different story.
My heart breaks for both the victims and their families. To have the search drag on this long, with no definitive answers, must be beyond tortuous. I would imagine many of them are desperate for answers and not thinking clearly. I would give them all much leeway to voice any and all of their concerns, but I would also take most of those claims with a grain of salt.
Why does everyone here seem he'll bent on completely and utterly disregarding the known facts that someone deliberately disengaged all of the comm systems and manually reconfigured the flight path of this plane to turn around at the exact moment it changed airspace. How does such a deliberate act follow to the non sequitur of "at the bottom of the ocean". What makes that the likeliest solution? I would really like for just one person who is toting the MSM version of events to come forward and explain how the stated facts regarding these oddities jive with the purported "likeliest solution" of a simple crash.
The likeliest explanation based on the evidence seems to be that someone or some persons had a different PLAN for this plane other than going to Bejing. The only explanation for a PLANNED deviation that puts it at the bottom of the ocean as the "likeliest solution" is a suicide, and nothing about the know sequence of events jives with a simple suicide. If you want to kill yourself as the pilot of a plane you simply nose dive the motherfucker and be done with it. You don't methodically plan and execute a disappearance from radar and travel another 5 to 7 hours simply to belly flop a 777.
SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THE OFFICIAL STORY, PLEASE HAVE THE COURAGE TO COME FORWARD AND MAKE A CASE FOR YOURSELF, because as it stands you have seemingly very little of the known sequence of events on your side.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
The likeliest solution has always been that this plane is at the bottom of the ocean. The ocean is both vast and deep, so the lack of wreckage, to me, has never seemed that strange. Not given the likely crash zone. Had this plane been flying over Long Island Sound when it went down it would be a different story.
My heart breaks for both the victims and their families. To have the search drag on this long, with no definitive answers, must be beyond tortuous. I would imagine many of them are desperate for answers and not thinking clearly. I would give them all much leeway to voice any and all of their concerns, but I would also take most of those claims with a grain of salt.
Why does everyone here seem he'll bent on completely and utterly disregarding the known facts that someone deliberately disengaged all of the comm systems and manually reconfigured the flight path of this plane to turn around at the exact moment it changed airspace. How does such a deliberate act follow to the non sequitur of "at the bottom of the ocean". What makes that the likeliest solution? I would really like for just one person who is toting the MSM version of events to come forward and explain how the stated facts regarding these oddities jive with the purported "likeliest solution" of a simple crash.
The likeliest explanation based on the evidence seems to be that someone or some persons had a different PLAN for this plane other than going to Bejing. The only explanation for a PLANNED deviation that puts it at the bottom of the ocean as the "likeliest solution" is a suicide, and nothing about the know sequence of events jives with a simple suicide. If you want to kill yourself as the pilot of a plane you simply nose dive the motherfucker and be done with it. You don't methodically plan and execute a disappearance from radar and travel another 5 to 7 hours simply to belly flop a 777.
SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THE OFFICIAL STORY, PLEASE HAVE THE COURAGE TO COME FORWARD AND MAKE A CASE FOR YOURSELF, because as it stands you have seemingly very little of the known sequence of events on your side.
So do you believe they will never find a wreckage? I believe they will never find a wreckage which will inturn only continue this extraordinary mystery. Also, from the very beginning this plane event has been extremely strange and unusual that just deepens this puzzle.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
The likeliest solution has always been that this plane is at the bottom of the ocean. The ocean is both vast and deep, so the lack of wreckage, to me, has never seemed that strange. Not given the likely crash zone. Had this plane been flying over Long Island Sound when it went down it would be a different story.
My heart breaks for both the victims and their families. To have the search drag on this long, with no definitive answers, must be beyond tortuous. I would imagine many of them are desperate for answers and not thinking clearly. I would give them all much leeway to voice any and all of their concerns, but I would also take most of those claims with a grain of salt.
Why does everyone here seem he'll bent on completely and utterly disregarding the known facts that someone deliberately disengaged all of the comm systems and manually reconfigured the flight path of this plane to turn around at the exact moment it changed airspace. How does such a deliberate act follow to the non sequitur of "at the bottom of the ocean". What makes that the likeliest solution? I would really like for just one person who is toting the MSM version of events to come forward and explain how the stated facts regarding these oddities jive with the purported "likeliest solution" of a simple crash.
The likeliest explanation based on the evidence seems to be that someone or some persons had a different PLAN for this plane other than going to Bejing. The only explanation for a PLANNED deviation that puts it at the bottom of the ocean as the "likeliest solution" is a suicide, and nothing about the know sequence of events jives with a simple suicide. If you want to kill yourself as the pilot of a plane you simply nose dive the motherfucker and be done with it. You don't methodically plan and execute a disappearance from radar and travel another 5 to 7 hours simply to belly flop a 777.
SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THE OFFICIAL STORY, PLEASE HAVE THE COURAGE TO COME FORWARD AND MAKE A CASE FOR YOURSELF, because as it stands you have seemingly very little of the known sequence of events on your side.
The plane being at the bottom of the ocean is the most likely solution because the plane was flying over water, was tracked by radar heading to even deeper water, and has since disappeared. What led to that fate we still do not know, so I am unsure what official story you are going on about. Everything at this point is a hypothesis.
I do believe some wreckage will eventually turn up, washed on shore somewhere. I don't think the "mystery" will ever go away though.
The likeliest solution has always been that this plane is at the bottom of the ocean. The ocean is both vast and deep, so the lack of wreckage, to me, has never seemed that strange. Not given the likely crash zone. Had this plane been flying over Long Island Sound when it went down it would be a different story.
My heart breaks for both the victims and their families. To have the search drag on this long, with no definitive answers, must be beyond tortuous. I would imagine many of them are desperate for answers and not thinking clearly. I would give them all much leeway to voice any and all of their concerns, but I would also take most of those claims with a grain of salt.
Why does everyone here seem he'll bent on completely and utterly disregarding the known facts that someone deliberately disengaged all of the comm systems and manually reconfigured the flight path of this plane to turn around at the exact moment it changed airspace. How does such a deliberate act follow to the non sequitur of "at the bottom of the ocean". What makes that the likeliest solution? I would really like for just one person who is toting the MSM version of events to come forward and explain how the stated facts regarding these oddities jive with the purported "likeliest solution" of a simple crash.
The likeliest explanation based on the evidence seems to be that someone or some persons had a different PLAN for this plane other than going to Bejing. The only explanation for a PLANNED deviation that puts it at the bottom of the ocean as the "likeliest solution" is a suicide, and nothing about the know sequence of events jives with a simple suicide. If you want to kill yourself as the pilot of a plane you simply nose dive the motherfucker and be done with it. You don't methodically plan and execute a disappearance from radar and travel another 5 to 7 hours simply to belly flop a 777.
SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THE OFFICIAL STORY, PLEASE HAVE THE COURAGE TO COME FORWARD AND MAKE A CASE FOR YOURSELF, because as it stands you have seemingly very little of the known sequence of events on your side.
Some of these facts you are referring to are actually suggestions that are made by pieces of the story.
The likeliest solution has always been that this plane is at the bottom of the ocean. The ocean is both vast and deep, so the lack of wreckage, to me, has never seemed that strange. Not given the likely crash zone. Had this plane been flying over Long Island Sound when it went down it would be a different story.
My heart breaks for both the victims and their families. To have the search drag on this long, with no definitive answers, must be beyond tortuous. I would imagine many of them are desperate for answers and not thinking clearly. I would give them all much leeway to voice any and all of their concerns, but I would also take most of those claims with a grain of salt.
Why does everyone here seem he'll bent on completely and utterly disregarding the known facts that someone deliberately disengaged all of the comm systems and manually reconfigured the flight path of this plane to turn around at the exact moment it changed airspace. How does such a deliberate act follow to the non sequitur of "at the bottom of the ocean". What makes that the likeliest solution? I would really like for just one person who is toting the MSM version of events to come forward and explain how the stated facts regarding these oddities jive with the purported "likeliest solution" of a simple crash.
The likeliest explanation based on the evidence seems to be that someone or some persons had a different PLAN for this plane other than going to Bejing. The only explanation for a PLANNED deviation that puts it at the bottom of the ocean as the "likeliest solution" is a suicide, and nothing about the know sequence of events jives with a simple suicide. If you want to kill yourself as the pilot of a plane you simply nose dive the motherfucker and be done with it. You don't methodically plan and execute a disappearance from radar and travel another 5 to 7 hours simply to belly flop a 777.
SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THE OFFICIAL STORY, PLEASE HAVE THE COURAGE TO COME FORWARD AND MAKE A CASE FOR YOURSELF, because as it stands you have seemingly very little of the known sequence of events on your side.
Hey Drifting, I am confused with what exactly you want me to say. As far as I know there is no official story. The powers that be as far as I can see, and correct me if I'm wrong, don't know what has happened yet. No one here is saying they know anything for sure. That's my point.
The evidence they do have so far ( satellite, radar and the possibility of pings from the black boxes where they are looking) points in all likelihood that the plane is in the ocean somewhere. Why it's there? I have no idea, I have never speculated on that. We won't know until the black boxes are recovered. Similar to the situation in the Air France disaster.
I feel like you and others are taking some evidence as gospel and throwing other evidence by the wayside. Why is that? Is it to fit your narrative as to what you think happened to the plane?
I don't see how we can take anything from the families as truth given their states of mind. I would want to hang on to the hope that they are alive as long as I could too. I wouldn't trust the government of Malaysia either since they have bungled so much up so far. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are hiding something.....it is more likely that they are incompetent. I think that validating theories is unfair to the families because it gives them hope where there is no evidence that there should be. They should be grieving....and I hope they can find the plane so they can start that process.
Dignin, I really appreciate you being intellectually honest enough to actually respond to the question asked. What I wanted was for someone who believes that the plane had crashed 5-7 hours off course in the wrong direction to explain to me why they think that is a more logical conclusion than that the plane was hijacked by someone or someone's and remains at large. I get that actual hard evidence is slim, but any attempt at rationalizing a non-conspiratorial approach to this would be much appreciated.
As far as your charge that those of us looking to a more sinister are taking "some evidence as gospel" and throwing "other evidence by the wayside", this leaves me with some confusion. The only "evidence" being omitted in my allegations of criminal intent by someone or someones is the current location of the plane. That evidence is really non-evidence. There is factually ZERO public evidence that the plane crashed in the location where teams are currently searching. The location is based on allegations presented to the public by Inmarsat regarding the last supposed arc of the final Comsat pings. The actual data has not been released in any form whatsoever, and the reasons given for choosing a plane location based on the particular portion of the alleged arc that Inmarsat has alleged has not been provided either.
In short, not only are the ping arcs themselves unverifiable by the public, but the selective locating of the plane at this particular spot on the arc is also unverifiable by the public, and the authorities have not eve provided the public with any reasoning for why this portion of the arc was chosen as the search location. We are just merely to believe on the good faith of the authorities themselves.
I will give you that box "pings" have been "detected" but their acquisition seems to be shaky at best. So let's say that the conspiratorial view requires the throwing by the wayside of the alleged box pings.
On the other hand, The transponder is by all accounts assumed to have been manually disabled.
ACARS is likewise generally assumed to have been manually disabled, and not easily.
The Navigation way points were admitted to have been manually reprogrammed, with specific skill required.
The pilot casually signs out if Malaysian airspace.
The flight is factually known to have disappeared from radar within 2 minutes of trading airspace (possibly the single most damning piece of evidence pointing to malicious intent) and never signs in with Vietnam, despite their attempts to contact it.
The flight is then by most sources acknowledged to have been tracked flying back over the northern tip of Malaysia headed towards the straights of malaca by Malaysian military primary radar. Granted this radar detection came with no transponder data (what you would expect from mh370 at this point) but it's spotting is generally acknowledged to fit almost exactly with the other known facts. All MSM maps of the plane use this radar spotting as part of the information in their flight path drawings.
Slightly more speculatively, even Thailand may have tracked an unidentified plane headed that direction.
Rolls Royce admitted receiving engine ping data for another five hours. Media reported this and then tried to downplay and backtrack the statements.
Authorities generally acknowledge receiving ACARS handshake pings for approximately 7 hours after the flight disappeared.
Authorities acknowledge that the waypoint navigation points indicate someone deliberately attempting to skirt radar detection.
And that is about where what we know, or most probably assume to know ends.
Read those generally assumed facts over and tell me they are indicative of a suicidal pilot or an equipment malfunction. They look damn sure like a deliberate effort to deviate and obfuscate. It requires dismissing nothing except for what was stated up top, which, IMHO, is more or less nothing, anyhow.
And I think Malaysia simply got the shit end of an intelligence stick. In other words they were getting dicked around by agencies and governments with significantly more advanced technology who may or may not have been playing straight with them (and for a whole host of possible reasons).
Post edited by DriftingByTheStorm on
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Dignin, I really appreciate you being intellectually honest enough to actually respond to the question asked. What I wanted was for someone who believes that the plane had crashed 5-7 hours off course in the wrong direction to explain to me why they think that is a more logical conclusion than that the plane was hijacked by someone or someone's and remains at large. I get that actual hard evidence is slim, but any attempt at rationalizing a non-conspiratorial approach to this would be much appreciated.
As far as your charge that those of us looking to a more sinister are taking "some evidence as gospel" and throwing "other evidence by the wayside", this leaves me with some confusion. The only "evidence" being omitted in my allegations of criminal intent by someone or someones is the current location of the plane. That evidence is really non-evidence. There is factually ZERO public evidence that the plane crashed in the location where teams are currently searching. The location is based on allegations presented to the public by Inmarsat regarding the last supposed arc of the final Comsat pings. The actual data has not been released in any form whatsoever, and the reasons given for choosing a plane location based on the particular portion of the alleged arc that Inmarsat has alleged has not been provided either.
In short, not only are the ping arcs themselves unverifiable by the public, but the selective locating of the plane at this particular spot on the arc is also unverifiable by the public, and the authorities have not eve provided the public with any reasoning for why this portion of the arc was chosen as the search location. We are just merely to believe on the good faith of the authorities themselves.
I will give you that box "pings" have been "detected" but their acquisition seems to be shaky at best. So let's say that the conspiratorial view requires the throwing by the wayside of the alleged box pings.
On the other hand, The transponder is by all accounts assumed to have been manually disabled.
ACARS is likewise generally assumed to have been manually disabled, and not easily.
The Navigation way points were admitted to have been manually reprogrammed, with specific skill required.
The pilot casually signs out if Malaysian airspace.
The flight is factually known to have disappeared from radar within 2 minutes of trading airspace (possibly the single most damning piece of evidence pointing to malicious intent) and never signs in with Vietnam, despite their attempts to contact it.
The flight is then by most sources acknowledged to have been tracked flying back over the northern tip of Malaysia headed towards the straights of malaca by Malaysian military primary radar. Granted this radar detection came with no transponder data (what you would expect from mh370 at this point) but it's spotting is generally acknowledged to fit almost exactly with the other known facts. All MSM maps of the plane use this radar spotting as part of the information in their flight path drawings.
Slightly more speculatively, even Thailand may have tracked an unidentified plane headed that direction.
Rolls Royce admitted receiving engine ping data for another five hours. Media reported this and then tried to downplay and backtrack the statements.
Authorities generally acknowledge receiving ACARS handshake pings for approximately 7 hours after the flight disappeared.
Authorities acknowledge that the waypoint navigation points indicate someone deliberately attempting to skirt radar detection.
And that is about where what we know, or most probably assume to know ends.
Read those generally assumed facts over and tell me they are indicative of a suicidal pilot or an equipment malfunction. They look damn sure like a deliberate effort to deviate and obfuscate. It requires dismissing nothing except for what was stated up top, which, IMHO, is more or less nothing, anyhow.
And I think Malaysia simply got the shit end of an intelligence stick. In other words they were getting dicked around by agencies and governments with significantly more advanced technology who may or may not have been playing straight with them (and for a whole host of possible reasons).
Thanks for the well thought out response Drifting. I don't disagree with what you have stated as the facts as we know them to be. It's where we have to wonder about possible intentions that we part ways I guess. Maybe the pilot was suicidal, maybe he had other intentions and things went wrong, or maybe they went right.....there are a whole lot of maybes. I'm just not willing to guess and make predictions while the mystery is still being resolved. We are only a little over a month into this.
I have always admitted the whole thing is strange. Shit doesn't add up right now, but that's always the case when we are still trying to figure shit out. We don't have the whole picture yet. Lots of things don't make sense in this world when we don't have all the info.
If they haven't found the wreckage in say.....a year or so, well, I'm more on board with all kinds of theories. I just think it's too soon to speculate.
An Australian search official dismissed reports Friday that the location of the data-recording black boxes on missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 had been found.
"On the information I have available to me, there has been no major breakthrough in the search for MH370," the search leader, retired Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, said in a statement as rumors swirled about the jet, which disappeared March 8 with 239 people on their way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.
Wow. I have to say I'm fucking shocked. B-)
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I'm not shocked. The search area is huge and the water is deep.
The strangeness of this disappearance is that we have never been through it before and that we don't at all know what caused it. When you factor in where it likely went down, the fact that the plane has not been found does not seem all that strange. The why and the how are the strange parts..
Comments
I hate to accuse TPTB of a massive conspiracy to lie about the plane's final resting place, but the pieces just don't seem to add up.
You can't really claim that this plane was just lost and flying desperately off course because it deliberately broke contact and evaded radar, and you can't claim it was a ghost plane flying with a dead crew, because a voice is known to have said "goodnight" AFTER half the systems had been disabled and the route changed.
All this leads me to be forced to the conclusion that the current search operation is completely bogus, based on false information coming from (or through) Inmarsat (the bastard child of Comsat, which itself is now wholly owned by Lockheed-Martin)
Something is REALLY screwball here. Also the *immediately* "discredited" (by MSM, with NO proof) claims from the Maldives of a low flying plane matching MH370's description, when what is directly south east of the Maldives is, in fact, Diego-Garcia, strikes me as just super-duper fishy, especially when the plane's last known baring was pointed more or less directly towards that base, the Rolls-Royce reports of engine pings and the last random comm-blip from MH370 put it at another 5-7 hours in the air, more or less exactly what you'd need to get to D-G, AND the fact that the pilot had D-G in his flight simulator have me really really scratching my head going, "WTF IS GOING ON HERE?"
If I opened it now would you not understand?
however the MSM has done it for me. Thank you, thank you.
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/547550/20140410/malaysia-airlines-mh370-debris.htm#.U0aBKHVdWlg
I find these "solutions" to be uncompelling, to say the least.
The notion that a highly skilled pilot shut off all communications and dodged radar and flew a plane for 6 hours on the run simply to "softly land in the ocean", sink, and die makes literally NO sense. Why not just nose dive it on your flight path and save everyone the trouble. WTF
The cyclone excuse is at least somewhat plausible, but I still call bullshit, and it stinks of desperately seeking to make up excuses for why not a SINGLE GOD DAMN PIECE of the plane has yet to be found.
Argument of mine, and many of the family members it seems: because the fucking plane is still 100% intact, SOMEWHERE.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
But please, continue away with the wild speculation.
feel free to counter the discussion ... but simply making snide remarks doesn't actually serve a purpose in the dialogue ... there are a lot of people who obviously have different opinions but they don't feel the need to cut people with different opinions down ...
Go back and look, I at no point asked you why you are here. But continue to play the victim.
read the thread ... we get that what your opinions are - why the need to label others as tin foil, not common sense or otherwise?
I think it is irresponsible and unfair to the families and people involved in the search to do anything else. That is where you and me differ.
You can do whatever you want. (except making this about me as per posting guidelines)
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
oh dear ... so, half the families believe the plane is still intact and you are calling us irresponsible now!?? ... seriously - lay off the guilt and accusations ...
What exactly do you think the evidence points to at this time?
My speculations, at least, are based on the overwhelming evidence that the plane had its communications systems deliberately shut down and the flight navigation waypoints manually altered in the computer all at precisely the critical moments in time when the plane was being handed over to another airspace. Instead of checking in with Vietnam, the play did a u-turn and went on the lamb. This turn was manually pre-altered in the flight system, and the moves to disable the comm systems were done right on top of this.
Saying it is "irresponsible to the families" is somewhat of a farce because 30plus members of at least 19 separate Chinese passengers have been ranting and railing "tinfoil hat" notions and holding up incredibly accusatory / conspiratorial signs since last month. Even the American girlfriend of the American IBM engineer has said point blank on CNN, she believes the flight was "abducted", that it is still in tact, and that there is an entire series of lies being spun around it. She actually went so far as to say this belief (that the plane was abducted and in tact) is the "common theme" that "binds the families".
So I find it hard to swallow the notion that anyone here is disrespecting the family members of the passengers simply by reiterating talking points that they themselves have been trying desperately to get the world to pay attention to. go back and look at the photo I posted earlier, "hand us the murderers", "return our relatives", "tell the world the truth" ..., really not mincing words there, and that is coming from, again, 30+ family members of 19 or more individual passengers.
And, repeating the question, where do you think the evidence points at this time?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
My heart breaks for both the victims and their families. To have the search drag on this long, with no definitive answers, must be beyond tortuous. I would imagine many of them are desperate for answers and not thinking clearly. I would give them all much leeway to voice any and all of their concerns, but I would also take most of those claims with a grain of salt.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
What makes that the likeliest solution? I would really like for just one person who is toting the MSM version of events to come forward and explain how the stated facts regarding these oddities jive with the purported "likeliest solution" of a simple crash.
The likeliest explanation based on the evidence seems to be that someone or some persons had a different PLAN for this plane other than going to Bejing. The only explanation for a PLANNED deviation that puts it at the bottom of the ocean as the "likeliest solution" is a suicide, and nothing about the know sequence of events jives with a simple suicide. If you want to kill yourself as the pilot of a plane you simply nose dive the motherfucker and be done with it. You don't methodically plan and execute a disappearance from radar and travel another 5 to 7 hours simply to belly flop a 777.
SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THE OFFICIAL STORY, PLEASE HAVE THE COURAGE TO COME FORWARD AND MAKE A CASE FOR YOURSELF, because as it stands you have seemingly very little of the known sequence of events on your side.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I do believe some wreckage will eventually turn up, washed on shore somewhere. I don't think the "mystery" will ever go away though.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
The evidence they do have so far ( satellite, radar and the possibility of pings from the black boxes where they are looking) points in all likelihood that the plane is in the ocean somewhere. Why it's there? I have no idea, I have never speculated on that. We won't know until the black boxes are recovered. Similar to the situation in the Air France disaster.
I feel like you and others are taking some evidence as gospel and throwing other evidence by the wayside. Why is that? Is it to fit your narrative as to what you think happened to the plane?
I don't see how we can take anything from the families as truth given their states of mind. I would want to hang on to the hope that they are alive as long as I could too. I wouldn't trust the government of Malaysia either since they have bungled so much up so far. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are hiding something.....it is more likely that they are incompetent. I think that validating theories is unfair to the families because it gives them hope where there is no evidence that there should be. They should be grieving....and I hope they can find the plane so they can start that process.
As far as your charge that those of us looking to a more sinister are taking "some evidence as gospel" and throwing "other evidence by the wayside", this leaves me with some confusion. The only "evidence" being omitted in my allegations of criminal intent by someone or someones is the current location of the plane. That evidence is really non-evidence. There is factually ZERO public evidence that the plane crashed in the location where teams are currently searching. The location is based on allegations presented to the public by Inmarsat regarding the last supposed arc of the final Comsat pings. The actual data has not been released in any form whatsoever, and the reasons given for choosing a plane location based on the particular portion of the alleged arc that Inmarsat has alleged has not been provided either.
In short, not only are the ping arcs themselves unverifiable by the public, but the selective locating of the plane at this particular spot on the arc is also unverifiable by the public, and the authorities have not eve provided the public with any reasoning for why this portion of the arc was chosen as the search location. We are just merely to believe on the good faith of the authorities themselves.
I will give you that box "pings" have been "detected" but their acquisition seems to be shaky at best. So let's say that the conspiratorial view requires the throwing by the wayside of the alleged box pings.
On the other hand,
The transponder is by all accounts assumed to have been manually disabled.
ACARS is likewise generally assumed to have been manually disabled, and not easily.
The Navigation way points were admitted to have been manually reprogrammed, with specific skill required.
The pilot casually signs out if Malaysian airspace.
The flight is factually known to have disappeared from radar within 2 minutes of trading airspace (possibly the single most damning piece of evidence pointing to malicious intent) and never signs in with Vietnam, despite their attempts to contact it.
The flight is then by most sources acknowledged to have been tracked flying back over the northern tip of Malaysia headed towards the straights of malaca by Malaysian military primary radar. Granted this radar detection came with no transponder data (what you would expect from mh370 at this point) but it's spotting is generally acknowledged to fit almost exactly with the other known facts. All MSM maps of the plane use this radar spotting as part of the information in their flight path drawings.
Slightly more speculatively, even Thailand may have tracked an unidentified plane headed that direction.
Rolls Royce admitted receiving engine ping data for another five hours. Media reported this and then tried to downplay and backtrack the statements.
Authorities generally acknowledge receiving ACARS handshake pings for approximately 7 hours after the flight disappeared.
Authorities acknowledge that the waypoint navigation points indicate someone deliberately attempting to skirt radar detection.
And that is about where what we know, or most probably assume to know ends.
Read those generally assumed facts over and tell me they are indicative of a suicidal pilot or an equipment malfunction.
They look damn sure like a deliberate effort to deviate and obfuscate. It requires dismissing nothing except for what was stated up top, which, IMHO, is more or less nothing, anyhow.
And I think Malaysia simply got the shit end of an intelligence stick. In other words they were getting dicked around by agencies and governments with significantly more advanced technology who may or may not have been playing straight with them (and for a whole host of possible reasons).
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Thanks for the well thought out response Drifting. I don't disagree with what you have stated as the facts as we know them to be. It's where we have to wonder about possible intentions that we part ways I guess. Maybe the pilot was suicidal, maybe he had other intentions and things went wrong, or maybe they went right.....there are a whole lot of maybes. I'm just not willing to guess and make predictions while the mystery is still being resolved. We are only a little over a month into this.
I have always admitted the whole thing is strange. Shit doesn't add up right now, but that's always the case when we are still trying to figure shit out. We don't have the whole picture yet. Lots of things don't make sense in this world when we don't have all the info.
If they haven't found the wreckage in say.....a year or so, well, I'm more on board with all kinds of theories. I just think it's too soon to speculate.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
If I opened it now would you not understand?
The strangeness of this disappearance is that we have never been through it before and that we don't at all know what caused it. When you factor in where it likely went down, the fact that the plane has not been found does not seem all that strange. The why and the how are the strange parts..
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
THIS IS OFFICIAL
http://www.jacc.gov.au/media/releases/2014/april/mr018.aspx
If I opened it now would you not understand?