You should. Yes there are things that people should be vocal about, and things that aren't right in the world. Pearl Jam playing Israel for there fans there isn't one. Again, I say go fuck yourself and you are the reason the world is going down the shitter is because you interject your political opinion in a situation that there is no need for. You speak up self righteously on something that doesn't even matter or affect anyone's day but some people that would like to see them live for once. What does it matter to you? Why is it an issue? If Pearl Jam played Israel are you going to boycott them? Exactly, no your not. So let the band play where they want, if some people want them to play in Israel let them post, but don't be a fucking asshole and throw out your little view of the world and why they shouldn't. That's why it's douches like you ruining the world, you make an issue out of things that shouldn't be. So again, see my last post to you, and go fuck your opinionated ass and let fans request that the band they love play in there country.
Kinda ironic that your inability to discuss anything rationally is what will get this thread locked. I didn't start the political discussion....and I already explained why i don't think it should be ignored in the decision to play there....if you don't think it's a big deal or has no consequence, that's fine...your opinion. But who are you to tell me where and when I should share my opinions...while sharing your opinion of me? Seriously, it's laughable. You don't like me posting in this thread, report it to the mods, see how that goes for you.
You are hilarious. You responded to my first post. My first comment was directed at no one. I don't care what you post. I'm simply saying it's people like you taking issues to things that shouldn't be an issue are what's ruining the world. I laugh how you will constantly feel the need to reply. Even better is your rebuttal does not include an answer to the question. If Pearl Jam doesn't boycott Israel and plays there, will you boycott Pearl Jam? It's easy to attack the poster (remember, you replied to my post) and try and be clever than it is to address what the post is about. You have made my night better, I love hearing the reasonings of those that want to say something but say nothing. My rational discussion = who cares if they played Israel? If you are against it, will you boycott spending any money in the future on seeing them, buying a bootleg, a poster, ect? If you are for them boycotting a place that you feel strongly about, will stand by your convictions and do to them as you want them to do?
Israelian pj fans deserve to see a show in their country same as the rest of the fans everywhere on the planet..its so simple.. and from the moment there is no official statement from the band 's side that they officially boycott Israel,and thats the reason they dont play in Israel then fans has every right to ask and dream for that that one day will happen, and if pj want to offically boycott Israel,then should stop selling records,merch and accept memberships from Israel but i know they selling there alot ,just fine.. the problem for me is clearly the logistics,its easy to see where is Israel in the map,and the best option is to play there is if they do a South europe tour including Turkey and Israel..thatys they only way tro play there..but planning always uk-german and nethelands at their euro tour,i dont see that happen exept they start playng more than 3 weeks tour this could happen.. as for the comment not to play there cos" murders innocent people.".if PJ thinks this way and do that,then i dont see them to play ever again at the country who is behind 90% of wars on the planet the last 50 years and has troops and military bases all over the planet..and they will play only to Switzerland and Monaco
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
You are hilarious. You responded to my first post. My first comment was directed at no one. I don't care what you post. I'm simply saying it's people like you taking issues to things that shouldn't be an issue are what's ruining the world. I laugh how you will constantly feel the need to reply. Even better is your rebuttal does not include an answer to the question. If Pearl Jam doesn't boycott Israel and plays there, will you boycott Pearl Jam? It's easy to attack the poster (remember, you replied to my post) and try and be clever than it is to address what the post is about. You have made my night better, I love hearing the reasonings of those that want to say something but say nothing. My rational discussion = who cares if they played Israel? If you are against it, will you boycott spending any money in the future on seeing them, buying a bootleg, a poster, ect? If you are for them boycotting a place that you feel strongly about, will stand by your convictions and do to them as you want them to do?
Man....accusing ME of ad hominem attacks after all that? Saying I'm avoiding questions while you haven't addressed any of my opinions on why they shouldn't play there? And mocking me for always replying while you do the same....? And I'm the hilarious one....? ok. You are missing the big picture completely if you don't think this should be an issue. I wasnt avoiding your hypothetical question...I'll participate in your little game. If pj announces a show in Israel, I will wait to see if there are any conditions, official statements, or measures taken to balance their position. If in the end, supporting pj creates a moral dilemma for me, I would stop supporting them, and would probably have a hard time even listening to their music. I won't support janes addiction any longer, because of comments PF made - two of my fav albums of all time are now tainted by his disgusting remarks...soundgarden, The pixies, and Neil young will never see another dime from me if they all go thru with their shows as is, without comment. You presume too much about me. Now I predict that you'll either try to say I'm full of shit, or mock me for my choice, right?
I don't feel any fan 'deserves' to see pj. That's not up to the fans to decide. I 100% feel for the peaceful fans in Israel that are caught up in the racist policies of their government...but in the big picture, the awareness the bds movement brings to the plight of the Palestinians is more important than the Israeli's desire to see a concert. Bds is the most effective non-violent way to effect change, as evidenced by South Africa, and the waves it's been causing for Israel recently.
seriously,i didnt expect from you to say that.i know how u believe in human rights and want to be fair to all,.and i complitly disagree.. all fans deserve the same,no matter their race,color,sex,political believes..even the ones who their goverments do wars ,provoke wars,or are"behind every fuckin war.." And with that logic,from the moment israelian fans dont deserve a show,cos of their shitty goverment,then,the fans from the country that support israelian goverment.,is behind israel , is allies with israel.,selling guns,bombs ,airplanes to israel ,dont deserve a show in their country either....wink wink..
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Um, all opinions aside, PJ probably wont play there or anywhere else in the middle east. Id guess they consider it too risky from a security standpoint.
Hey Drowned out,I don't know your faith and I don't care.I as well as a couple other on here have tried to keep this about the music not politics.But since you seem so hell bent on supporting the innocent Palestinian part of the problem just remember a couple of things while up on your soapbox. Don't remember reading any stories of Israelis strapping explosives to children and blowing up innocent "non government" "non military"targets of men women and children ,or you know slaughter innocent Olympic athletes,or want to completely eliminate a race of people off the face of the earth. There is 1 Jewish state, there are dozens upon Dozens of Muslim countries that every day want to do away with Isreal.I get why they feel they need to secure its borders.So if human rights and fairness and apartheid are your concerns then maybe rallying the Palestinian organizations and the cowardly piece of shit terrorist groups that continue to terrorize innocent lives in the name of g-d to come to peaceful resolution and live in piece with others that do not believe in their collective dogmaThat is where your efforts should go.Unless of course you are a hypocrite with some other agenda. The situation in the Middle East is not like South Africa.
Damn! You are right. And you are right. And so are you! Fuck politics. Pearl jam isn't even a big political band. They made one political album, and eddie gets wasted on stage and mumbles some shit. Who f'n cares. If Pearl Jam played in Israel, does that influence or change my life? Fuck no. If they don't does it? Fuck no. Could they sell out to 20,000 plus and play for some fans? Of course. Stop arguing why they should or shouldn't. I hope they will and make 20,000 people have one of the greatest nights of their lives. Stop being so damn stubborn headed in your own opinions and argue why some fans shouldn't ever be able to see them. Get over yourselves, it's fucking music.
.I get why they feel they need to secure its borders.So if human rights and fairness and apartheid are your concerns then maybe rallying the Palestinian organizations and the cowardly piece of shit terrorist groups that continue to terrorize innocent lives in the name of g-d to come to peaceful resolution and live in piece with others that do not believe in their collective dogmaThat is where your efforts should go.Unless of course you are a hypocrite with some other agenda. The situation in the Middle East is not like South Africa.
Secure it's borders? What borders? You mean the borders that Israel continues to expand? So said 'borders' are constantly changing, as they steal more land. (Build more and more 'illegal' settlements on Palestinian land), Major Source of the conflict.
Fact, not conjecture (set of opinions turned to fact)
Don't forget that the group (minus Eddie) played here with Neil Young few years ago. Neil Young is coming back now.. Chris Cornell was here twice and now coming back with soundgarden. So while Roger Waters spreads his hate speech towards Israel there are plenty of musicians who come and play here. I hope the group gets to hear other sides and stories from Israel and artists who have been here.
If there's a side to the story that isn't being heard, I don't think it's Israel's.
What part of Roger Waters' boycott constitutes "hate speech"? That's a pretty strong accusation to be throwing from Israel's glass house.
Just because other musicians choose to play there, doesn't mean Pearl Jam should. If we use that logic, then I would argue that PJ should join the other 93 authors, film-makers, musicians and performers that have chosen to boycott Israel.
Yes, I let myself call it hate speech. Putting an Israeli symbol on a pig in a concert, for me, is hate speech. Sorry, tried to find other words to describe it. That is what comes up to my mind when I see it. I mentioned that pearl jam (minus Eddie) were here, I said it cause it is a bit obvious that the issue of coming over is Eddie and not the rest of the band. And the rest I mentioned cause the same as they got Roger Waters preaching them one thing, they got other who I am sure telling other stuff about Israel.
I just think that bands\musicians\artists in general should play for people, not governments. (I am myself not a supporter of the current government in Israel).
We all know history is full of lands that have been once occupied by one group but through war,expansion,etc have been taken over by others.Not arguing the political correctness of these actions as here in the USA we took this land from others.It is what it is.We are not giving land back to Spain,England,France or the Native Americans.Most countries and modern civilizations have done the same. Israel will never leave those acquired lands.Good bad or indifferent it won't happen.So the people over there either need to work peacefully to achieve a shared space where all can live in harmony and prosper as a diverse culture,Or all parties involved are doomed to more violence and unrest for generations.Personally I think many cultures hold historical roots to the area and should find the proper political and humane solution to the issue.
We all know history is full of lands that have been once occupied by one group but through war,expansion,etc have been taken over by others.Not arguing the political correctness of these actions as here in the USA we took this land from others.It is what it is.We are not giving land back to Spain,England,France or the Native Americans.Most countries and modern civilizations have done the same. Israel will never leave those acquired lands.Good bad or indifferent it won't happen.So the people over there either need to work peacefully to achieve a shared space where all can live in harmony and prosper as a diverse culture,Or all parties involved are doomed to more violence and unrest for generations.Personally I think many cultures hold historical roots to the area and should find the proper political and humane solution to the issue.
Agreed. So let's take all the US tax dollars going to support Israel's "border defense", and take that money to pay reparations for slavery, raise the standard of living for our Native Americans, green energy, minority scholarships, etc. At least that would be a step in the right direction. As an American, I'm sick and tired of tax dollars going to the Middle East so we can feed our military industrial complex.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Whoa!!! ,slow that Prius down CM.Your getting way to liberal.That Border Defense helps let you sleep well at night here in the states.You can't have crazies running around Blowing up shit ,causing chaos running amuck in that side of the world.Minority Schollys,Slavery reparations all have merit but making the world unsafe is not smart.
Whoa!!! ,slow that Prius down CM.Your getting way to liberal.That Border Defense helps let you sleep well at night here in the states.You can't have crazies running around Blowing up shit ,causing chaos running amuck in that side of the world.Minority Schollys,Slavery reparations all have merit but making the world unsafe is not smart.
Cannot tell if sarcasm or not...
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Hey Drowned out,I don't know your faith and I don't care.I as well as a couple other on here have tried to keep this about the music not politics.But since you seem so hell bent on supporting the innocent Palestinian part of the problem just remember a couple of things while up on your soapbox. Don't remember reading any stories of Israelis strapping explosives to children and blowing up innocent "non government" "non military"targets of men women and children ,or you know slaughter innocent Olympic athletes,or want to completely eliminate a race of people off the face of the earth. There is 1 Jewish state, there are dozens upon Dozens of Muslim countries that every day want to do away with Isreal.I get why they feel they need to secure its borders.So if human rights and fairness and apartheid are your concerns then maybe rallying the Palestinian organizations and the cowardly piece of shit terrorist groups that continue to terrorize innocent lives in the name of g-d to come to peaceful resolution and live in piece with others that do not believe in their collective dogmaThat is where your efforts should go.Unless of course you are a hypocrite with some other agenda. The situation in the Middle East is not like South Africa.
I worship no god, and am equally disturbed by any quasi-theocracy. But moreso with the ones actively involved in ethnic cleansing while portraying themselves as a ‘beacon of light in a region of darkness’, as my asshole prime minister put it. Religion and ethnicity should not be a precursor to human rights, ever, anywhere. How can you not see the hypocrisy in saying that it’s the Palestinians alone who will not make peace with those who don’t subscribe to their collective dogma, when there are over 30 laws discriminating against non-jews in Israel, and more before the Knesset all the time? Let me know when a campaign for PJ to play Saudi Arabia starts, and I’ll get on my soapbox again. Do you really want to get into a pissing match over the murder of innocent civilians? Cause Israel will lose that one hands down. I don’t mind showing you examples of cold blooded murder of Palestinians, as recent as this week, at the hands of the ‘cowardly piece of shit’ Israeli Occupation Forces…..I can show you instances of schools and hospitals clearly marked as Red Cross shelters being intentionally bombed during Cast Lead, I can show you pictures of the 300+ dead children from that indiscriminate bombing campaign. As for your insinuation that muslims want to do away with Israel because they want equal rights for Palestinians, and that Israel will be destroyed if that becomes reality – that is fear mongering, plain and simple. Israel has the most powerful army in the middle east, nuclear weapons, and the backing of the world’s sole super power…. yet we’re supposed to believe that they’re on the verge of destruction if they abide by the will of the entire international community (other than the US)?
So the people over there either need to work peacefully to achieve a shared space where all can live in harmony and prosper as a diverse culture,Or all parties involved are doomed to more violence and unrest for generations.Personally I think many cultures hold historical roots to the area and should find the proper political and humane solution to the issue..
But you’re only calling on one side to make concessions. The humane solution you allude to is Palestinians accepting continued theft of their land, accepting second class citizenship (if they can even obtain it), and bowing to Israeli will. ‘Working peacefully’ starts with ending the blockade of gaza, the theft of land, and the collective punishment of Palestinians by the state of Israel – all acts of war as defined by international law. So what is your suggestion for peace? Do you support a one state solution, a two state solution, or ethnic cleansing? A two state solution is dying with every settlement unit built, and every parcel of land stolen via wall construction. If we’re left with a one state solution, we then must choose between equal rights for all citizens of ‘Greater Israel/Palestine’, or continued ethnic cleansing to ensure the Jewishness of said state. How do you see this playing out in a way that peace will be achieved? Ethnic cleansing, or rights for Palestinians? Because those are the choices this boils down to.
seriously,i didnt expect from you to say that.i know how u believe in human rights and want to be fair to all,.and i complitly disagree.. all fans deserve the same,no matter their race,color,sex,political believes..even the ones who their goverments do wars ,provoke wars,or are"behind every fuckin war.." And with that logic,from the moment israelian fans dont deserve a show,cos of their shitty goverment,then,the fans from the country that support israelian goverment.,is behind israel , is allies with israel.,selling guns,bombs ,airplanes to israel ,dont deserve a show in their country either....wink wink..
D – even cherry picking that one line without the context that follows, I stand by the statement. Why do any of us DESERVE to see PJ play live? It’s up to them, not fan entitlement, where and when they tour….. And if you think all fans deserve the same, why do you not address my point earlier in this thread about the Palestinian’s freedom of movement? I don’t see Canada or the US engaged in a 60 year campaign of ethnic cleansing…? I don’t see Canada, nor the US preventing peoples under their control from attending PJ shows…? As I said on AMT the other day, if any artist decides to use a peaceful means of protest or raising awareness for peace or justice ANYWHERE (including my own country), I will support them. Some things are more important than a rock show.
PS – Roger Waters’ star of david on the pig was not the only symbol shown in that concert – crosses, crescent moons, dollar signs, and others were used. I guess he hates everyone……Or maybe he is siding against political and religious persecution and oppression.
If you think about boycotting artists who played in Israel or anything related to Israel then do it right.
Stop listening to Neil Young , Chris Cornell ( you can include TOTD,SG,Audioslave), Paul McCartney, David Bowie, RATM, Metallica, Aerosmith , GnR, Faith No More, any Mike Patton, Megadeth, Anthrax, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dilan, Madona, Lady Gaga, Tom Petty, Iggy Pop, Nick Cave, Sting, REM.... Also when listening to PJ, remove Jeff, Mike and Stone tracks as they already performed there twice.
If you use any of the product of the following company please stop as they all have R&D centers in Israel: Apple, Microsoft, Intel, Google, IBM, Motorola,Vmware, Sandisk (throw you DiskOnKey away ), Ebay, HP, GE, CA, Babylon,Waze...
Also make sure that when your next post is making is way over the internet it won't use network devices from Alcatel-Lucent, Cisco, Broadcom,Marvell, Juniper as all of them have also centers in Israel.
Good luck with this...
Again , the original post is about a group of fans calling their favorite band to come play in their country. This movement succeeded to rally over 40000 likes , it invested time in making great PJ covers with local bands and also inspired other people from all over the world. (see "bring pearl jam to indonesia" ...)
and thats why i support it..sure goverments do bad things and israelian maybe more,but music lovers and fans deserve to see the band.. i support the wish of fellow fans from israel
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Once again, you prove my point that PJ playing Israel would be fodder for the Zionist PR cannon. It would suck to see their name on that list. Thanks for the list of companies I should boycott...here is more bds information for those interested: http://www.cjpme.org/TabbedEnhancedItemList.aspx?EITID=7&MNITEM=1000000364 You and others in this thread keep trying to tell me "it's about the music, so stop politicizing the issue"...then you follow with more political commentary countering my points. Trying to get the last word and shut me up. Sorry, not happening.
seriously,i didnt expect from you to say that.i know how u believe in human rights and want to be fair to all,.and i complitly disagree.. all fans deserve the same,no matter their race,color,sex,political believes..even the ones who their goverments do wars ,provoke wars,or are"behind every fuckin war.." And with that logic,from the moment israelian fans dont deserve a show,cos of their shitty goverment,then,the fans from the country that support israelian goverment.,is behind israel , is allies with israel.,selling guns,bombs ,airplanes to israel ,dont deserve a show in their country either....wink wink..
D – even cherry picking that one line without the context that follows, I stand by the statement. Why do any of us DESERVE to see PJ play live? It’s up to them, not fan entitlement, where and when they tour….. And if you think all fans deserve the same, why do you not address my point earlier in this thread about the Palestinian’s freedom of movement? I don’t see Canada or the US engaged in a 60 year campaign of ethnic cleansing…? I don’t see Canada, nor the US preventing peoples under their control from attending PJ shows…? As I said on AMT the other day, if any artist decides to use a peaceful means of protest or raising awareness for peace or justice ANYWHERE (including my own country), I will support them. Some things are more important than a rock show.
PS – Roger Waters’ star of david on the pig was not the only symbol shown in that concert – crosses, crescent moons, dollar signs, and others were used. I guess he hates everyone……Or maybe he is siding against political and religious persecution and oppression.
buddy,i quote that part only to say simply that fans ,people love music ,cant be panished for their goverment-country mistakes for sure,was not to my intentions to cut the whole meaning of your words pj israelian fans has a huge fan base and travel all over the planet to see the band and deserve to see the band in their country.. Greece dont start or be a part at wars but that doesnt mean i deserve more to see the band than a fan from israel.. and my comment has to do with the fact that for sure israelian goverment do shitty staff,they kick out palestinians from their own land ,we all know the history,but Israel is NOT the only evil on the planet..their allies,and countries they support them 60 years now,and we all know who are they have the same share of responsibility.. so pj boycott ONLY israel and NOT all the countries support them,doing business with them,selling guns ,the guns killing palestinians,sorry but is not make sense and its somewhat hypocritical.. and again,officially the band is NOT boycott Israel..never said that,and i saw with my eyes,Jeff wearing on stage a shirt "pj plays in Israel-shirt" got from a fan from the rail logistics is the problem..i think is the same pro why the band dont play in countries like Indonesia or South Africa (as for the last one,SA,i know for sure its in their radar to play there.) would be great to have peace all over the planet,and we enjoy the music,i know alot about the area,Greece is very close,we have many palestinians coming to my country,but music is to connect people,and pj if they can play to israel,they should do it.. and im pretty sure,if they play there and eddie on stay wishes peace to palestinians and israelians he will get a huge wellcome from israelian fans
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
You and others in this thread keep trying to tell me "it's about the music, so stop politicizing the issue"...then you follow with more political commentary countering my points. Trying to get the last word and shut me up. Sorry, not happening.
as for this my friend,ill answer with that (no matter if i have different opinion at thios matter cos,i really want music to win politics to this type of matters) "I disagree with what you say but I will defend to death your right to say it"
Post edited by dimitrispearljam on
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Such spirited debate is great.Drowned out, if you are living in a situation that is less then desirable and life in any way shape or form is unfair to you,I hope you find some light to shine upon you and your circumstances improve.I also hope that the Thousands of good loyal PJ fans in that area of the globe have a chance to experience one of the great Rock bands in history just once live.Dark,light,Jew,Muslim ,Christian ,Israeli ,Palestinian all can be touched by the music.It does not discriminate.
So why stop a show that can bring joy to all.Maybe just maybe a Bad ass PJ show in Israel could build a bridge or two toward something greater.Who knows maybe you Drowned out could be riding the rail at the show.Elbow to Elbow with others you don't agree with politically but when you have to take a piss,or grab a beer they hold your spot and look out for you like so many of us in the pit or crowd have done before.You will meet some great folks who for a few hours have just one thing in common and believe me it is glorious to bask in the energy of the crowd and loose yourself in the evening.You got some great beaches over there,how does an opener of Oceans in the moonlight with your toes in the sand sound with a cold fuckin beer in hand. Join your fellow fans,don't knock em
Drowned Out - thank you for being a voice of reason amongst all the static! You write very thorough and concise arguments, that frankly I have neither the time or initiative for.
I will reiterate this though. The people elect their governments, serve in their military, and should be held accountable for their actions and the policies of their leaders. You can't separate the people from the politics. People ARE politics.
While we as individuals may not feasibly boycott all the companies and bands previously listed. A band in an elevated, high profile position such as Pearl Jam can bring a lot of attention to the issue by boycotting Israel.
This isn't about the music discriminating. This is about music's ability to make a change. Considering they have an entire tab dedicated to Activism, this is a concept I think PJ would agree with. It's a shame other musicians and corporations don't have the same convictions. But let's be honest, for them it's not about conviction - it's about money. In my mind, for every band that performs there, they are implicitly in saying: "yes, we agree with the miserable domestic and foreign policy this country has".
Perhaps the fans from Israel should focus more of their efforts on increasing their stock in the world, rather than paltry YouTube & Facebook petitions. Then maybe your voices will be heard.
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Performing in Israel does not mean they agree their policy.
When performing in Texas , does it means they agree that carrying a gun is a freedom statement ? They can come and play and make a statement on stage like they did in Denver against Bush. Some of the crowd will boo , some not, but nobody will put them in jail like Pussy Riot in Russia.
Performing in Israel does not mean they agree their policy.
When performing in Texas , does it means they agree that carrying a gun is a freedom statement ? They can come and play and make a statement on stage like they did in Denver against Bush. Some of the crowd will boo , some not, but nobody will put them in jail like Pussy Riot in Russia.
You can't equivocate Texas gun policy with Israel's growing settlements, borders and occupancy. The death, destruction, and oppression are not even close to comparable.
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" You can't equivocate Texas gun policy with Israel's growing settlements, borders and occupancy. The death, destruction, and oppression are not even close to comparable."
You Palestinian supportes are a angry bunch.Why is everything gotta be turned into politics with you folks.I understand why there is so much unrest over there after reading all these angry posts.Not just on this thread but there is another supporter of your issue on another thread. Cm you blame the people for electing there government,so it's the people who are the problem.Thats like saying Its my fault Obama care has problems ,or Its the people's fault that we are still in Afghanastan ,trust me no one asked me.and It's not my fault on either. You guys also don't seem to Confront the terrorist actions of the people you support against innocent people.I know, I know your first thought is turn it around and blame big bad Israel the infidel.But answer for your sides own misgivings and condem violence against non military targets.You have to look in the mirror first ,come clean with that,then you can have a conversation about a solution to your "oppression". Do you think killing innocent non political non government targets is justified?I am asking you folks not the Israeli supporters. Also If You hate all that is Israeli and want to Boycott by association then follow the logic.PJ is an American band,USA is a huge friend of Israel in all aspects.So we as a country do support the country of Israel.So technically you should not support Pearl Jam because they are American.Do you pick and choose your stance.A little hypocritical if you ask me.
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But who are you to tell me where and when I should share my opinions...while sharing your opinion of me? Seriously, it's laughable. You don't like me posting in this thread, report it to the mods, see how that goes for you.
and from the moment there is no official statement from the band 's side that they officially boycott Israel,and thats the reason they dont play in Israel then fans has every right to ask and dream for that that one day will happen,
and if pj want to offically boycott Israel,then should stop selling records,merch and accept memberships from Israel
but i know they selling there alot ,just fine..
the problem for me is clearly the logistics,its easy to see where is Israel in the map,and the best option is to play there is if they do a South europe tour including Turkey and Israel..thatys they only way tro play there..but planning always uk-german and nethelands at their euro tour,i dont see that happen exept they start playng more than 3 weeks tour this could happen..
as for the comment not to play there cos" murders innocent people.".if PJ thinks this way and do that,then i dont see them to play ever again at the country who is behind 90% of wars on the planet the last 50 years and has troops and military bases all over the planet..and they will play only to Switzerland and Monaco
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
You are missing the big picture completely if you don't think this should be an issue.
I wasnt avoiding your hypothetical question...I'll participate in your little game.
If pj announces a show in Israel, I will wait to see if there are any conditions, official statements, or measures taken to balance their position. If in the end, supporting pj creates a moral dilemma for me, I would stop supporting them, and would probably have a hard time even listening to their music. I won't support janes addiction any longer, because of comments PF made - two of my fav albums of all time are now tainted by his disgusting remarks...soundgarden,
The pixies, and Neil young will never see another dime from me if they all go thru with their shows as is, without comment. You presume too much about me.
Now I predict that you'll either try to say I'm full of shit, or mock me for my choice, right?
I don't feel any fan 'deserves' to see pj. That's not up to the fans to decide.
I 100% feel for the peaceful fans in Israel that are caught up in the racist policies of their government...but in the big picture, the awareness the bds movement brings to the plight of the Palestinians is more important than the Israeli's desire to see a concert. Bds is the most effective non-violent way to effect change, as evidenced by South Africa, and the waves it's been causing for Israel recently.
all fans deserve the same,no matter their race,color,sex,political believes..even the ones who their goverments do wars ,provoke wars,or are"behind every fuckin war.."
And with that logic,from the moment israelian fans dont deserve a show,cos of their shitty goverment,then,the fans from the country that support israelian goverment.,is behind israel , is allies with israel.,selling guns,bombs ,airplanes to israel ,dont deserve a show in their country either....wink wink..
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
June 10th in Tel Aviv.
Don't remember reading any stories of Israelis strapping explosives to children and blowing up innocent "non government" "non military"targets of men women and children ,or you know slaughter innocent Olympic athletes,or want to completely eliminate a race of people off the face of the earth.
There is 1 Jewish state, there are dozens upon Dozens of Muslim countries that every day want to do away with Isreal.I get why they feel they need to secure its borders.So if human rights and fairness and apartheid are your concerns then maybe rallying the Palestinian organizations and the cowardly piece of shit terrorist groups that continue to terrorize innocent lives in the name of g-d to come to peaceful resolution and live in piece with others that do not believe in their collective dogmaThat is where your efforts should go.Unless of course you are a hypocrite with some other agenda.
The situation in the Middle East is not like South Africa.
Fact, not conjecture (set of opinions turned to fact)
I mentioned that pearl jam (minus Eddie) were here, I said it cause it is a bit obvious that the issue of coming over is Eddie and not the rest of the band.
And the rest I mentioned cause the same as they got Roger Waters preaching them one thing, they got other who I am sure telling other stuff about Israel.
I just think that bands\musicians\artists in general should play for people, not governments. (I am myself not a supporter of the current government in Israel).
Israel will never leave those acquired lands.Good bad or indifferent it won't happen.So the people over there either need to work peacefully to achieve a shared space where all can live in harmony and prosper as a diverse culture,Or all parties involved are doomed to more violence and unrest for generations.Personally I think many cultures hold historical roots to the area and should find the proper political and humane solution to the issue.
Do you really want to get into a pissing match over the murder of innocent civilians? Cause Israel will lose that one hands down. I don’t mind showing you examples of cold blooded murder of Palestinians, as recent as this week, at the hands of the ‘cowardly piece of shit’ Israeli Occupation Forces…..I can show you instances of schools and hospitals clearly marked as Red Cross shelters being intentionally bombed during Cast Lead, I can show you pictures of the 300+ dead children from that indiscriminate bombing campaign.
As for your insinuation that muslims want to do away with Israel because they want equal rights for Palestinians, and that Israel will be destroyed if that becomes reality – that is fear mongering, plain and simple. Israel has the most powerful army in the middle east, nuclear weapons, and the backing of the world’s sole super power…. yet we’re supposed to believe that they’re on the verge of destruction if they abide by the will of the entire international community (other than the US)? But you’re only calling on one side to make concessions. The humane solution you allude to is Palestinians accepting continued theft of their land, accepting second class citizenship (if they can even obtain it), and bowing to Israeli will. ‘Working peacefully’ starts with ending the blockade of gaza, the theft of land, and the collective punishment of Palestinians by the state of Israel – all acts of war as defined by international law. So what is your suggestion for peace? Do you support a one state solution, a two state solution, or ethnic cleansing? A two state solution is dying with every settlement unit built, and every parcel of land stolen via wall construction. If we’re left with a one state solution, we then must choose between equal rights for all citizens of ‘Greater Israel/Palestine’, or continued ethnic cleansing to ensure the Jewishness of said state. How do you see this playing out in a way that peace will be achieved? Ethnic cleansing, or rights for Palestinians? Because those are the choices this boils down to. D – even cherry picking that one line without the context that follows, I stand by the statement. Why do any of us DESERVE to see PJ play live? It’s up to them, not fan entitlement, where and when they tour…..
And if you think all fans deserve the same, why do you not address my point earlier in this thread about the Palestinian’s freedom of movement? I don’t see Canada or the US engaged in a 60 year campaign of ethnic cleansing…? I don’t see Canada, nor the US preventing peoples under their control from attending PJ shows…?
As I said on AMT the other day, if any artist decides to use a peaceful means of protest or raising awareness for peace or justice ANYWHERE (including my own country), I will support them. Some things are more important than a rock show.
PS – Roger Waters’ star of david on the pig was not the only symbol shown in that concert – crosses, crescent moons, dollar signs, and others were used. I guess he hates everyone……Or maybe he is siding against political and religious persecution and oppression.
If you think about boycotting artists who played in Israel or anything related to Israel then do it right.
Stop listening to Neil Young , Chris Cornell ( you can include TOTD,SG,Audioslave), Paul McCartney, David Bowie, RATM, Metallica, Aerosmith , GnR, Faith No More, any Mike Patton, Megadeth, Anthrax, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dilan, Madona, Lady Gaga, Tom Petty, Iggy Pop, Nick Cave, Sting, REM....
Also when listening to PJ, remove Jeff, Mike and Stone tracks as they already performed there twice.
If you use any of the product of the following company please stop as they all have R&D centers in Israel: Apple, Microsoft, Intel, Google, IBM, Motorola,Vmware, Sandisk (throw you DiskOnKey away ), Ebay, HP, GE, CA, Babylon,Waze...
Also make sure that when your next post is making is way over the internet it won't use network devices from Alcatel-Lucent, Cisco, Broadcom,Marvell, Juniper as all of them have also centers in Israel.
Good luck with this...
Again , the original post is about a group of fans calling their favorite band to come play in their country.
This movement succeeded to rally over 40000 likes , it invested time in making great PJ covers with local bands and also inspired other people from all over the world. (see "bring pearl jam to indonesia" ...)
It's only about music and love of PJ
i support the wish of fellow fans from israel
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Thanks for the list of companies I should boycott...here is more bds information for those interested:
http://www.cjpme.org/TabbedEnhancedItemList.aspx?EITID=7&MNITEM=1000000364
You and others in this thread keep trying to tell me "it's about the music, so stop politicizing the issue"...then you follow with more political commentary countering my points. Trying to get the last word and shut me up. Sorry, not happening.
for sure,was not to my intentions to cut the whole meaning of your words
pj israelian fans has a huge fan base and travel all over the planet to see the band and deserve to see the band in their country..
Greece dont start or be a part at wars but that doesnt mean i deserve more to see the band than a fan from israel..
and my comment has to do with the fact that for sure israelian goverment do shitty staff,they kick out palestinians from their own land ,we all know the history,but Israel is NOT the only evil on the planet..their allies,and countries they support them 60 years now,and we all know who are they have the same share of responsibility..
so pj boycott ONLY israel and NOT all the countries support them,doing business with them,selling guns ,the guns killing palestinians,sorry but is not make sense and its somewhat hypocritical..
and again,officially the band is NOT boycott Israel..never said that,and i saw with my eyes,Jeff wearing on stage a shirt "pj plays in Israel-shirt" got from a fan from the rail
logistics is the problem..i think is the same pro why the band dont play in countries like Indonesia or South Africa
(as for the last one,SA,i know for sure its in their radar to play there.)
would be great to have peace all over the planet,and we enjoy the music,i know alot about the area,Greece is very close,we have many palestinians coming to my country,but music is to connect people,and pj if they can play to israel,they should do it..
and im pretty sure,if they play there and eddie on stay wishes peace to palestinians and israelians he will get a huge wellcome from israelian fans
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
"I disagree with what you say but I will defend to death your right to say it"
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
So why stop a show that can bring joy to all.Maybe just maybe a Bad ass PJ show in Israel could build a bridge or two toward something greater.Who knows maybe you Drowned out could be riding the rail at the show.Elbow to Elbow with others you don't agree with politically but when you have to take a piss,or grab a beer they hold your spot and look out for you like so many of us in the pit or crowd have done before.You will meet some great folks who for a few hours have just one thing in common and believe me it is glorious to bask in the energy of the crowd and loose yourself in the evening.You got some great beaches over there,how does an opener of Oceans in the moonlight with your toes in the sand sound with a cold fuckin beer in hand.
Join your fellow fans,don't knock em
I will reiterate this though. The people elect their governments, serve in their military, and should be held accountable for their actions and the policies of their leaders. You can't separate the people from the politics. People ARE politics.
While we as individuals may not feasibly boycott all the companies and bands previously listed. A band in an elevated, high profile position such as Pearl Jam can bring a lot of attention to the issue by boycotting Israel.
This isn't about the music discriminating. This is about music's ability to make a change. Considering they have an entire tab dedicated to Activism, this is a concept I think PJ would agree with. It's a shame other musicians and corporations don't have the same convictions. But let's be honest, for them it's not about conviction - it's about money. In my mind, for every band that performs there, they are implicitly in saying: "yes, we agree with the miserable domestic and foreign policy this country has".
Perhaps the fans from Israel should focus more of their efforts on increasing their stock in the world, rather than paltry YouTube & Facebook petitions. Then maybe your voices will be heard.
When performing in Texas , does it means they agree that carrying a gun is a freedom statement ?
They can come and play and make a statement on stage like they did in Denver against Bush.
Some of the crowd will boo , some not, but nobody will put them in jail like Pussy Riot in Russia.
You Palestinian supportes are a angry bunch.Why is everything gotta be turned into politics with you folks.I understand why there is so much unrest over there after reading all these angry posts.Not just on this thread but there is another supporter of your issue on another thread.
Cm you blame the people for electing there government,so it's the people who are the problem.Thats like saying Its my fault Obama care has problems ,or Its the people's fault that we are still in Afghanastan ,trust me no one asked me.and It's not my fault on either.
You guys also don't seem to Confront the terrorist actions of the people you support against innocent people.I know, I know your first thought is turn it around and blame big bad Israel the infidel.But answer for your sides own misgivings and condem violence against non military targets.You have to look in the mirror first ,come clean with that,then you can have a conversation about a solution to your "oppression".
Do you think killing innocent non political non government targets is justified?I am asking you folks not the Israeli supporters.
Also If You hate all that is Israeli and want to Boycott by association then follow the logic.PJ is an American band,USA is a huge friend of Israel in all aspects.So we as a country do support the country of Israel.So technically you should not support Pearl Jam because they are American.Do you pick and choose your stance.A little hypocritical if you ask me.