why is it that people act like mid-tempo "pop" sounding songs are a new thing from pearl jam? how can low light get love and yellow moon not?? pretty similar songs really...
Sirens hit me in a way that no song has since Black. That's not to say it's an equal song to Black. But in Sirens, Ed perfectly captures what it means to be a 30 (or 40 or 50) something married father of two, the same way Black captured what it was like to be a lovelorn teenager or young adult.
But hit me right where I lived in the moment I was living it. The goosebumps were identical, 20 some odd years later.
SPOT ON!
I love Sirens - their Best song since Some of the pearls on Binaural
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I still don't see the Sirens and the "power ballade"' connection, but thats maybe just me. If there is one thing wrong about Sirens it is the expectations people had. Pronouncing it as the "next Black" was a huge mistake and almost asking for a backlash. If you take all that stuff away though, and forget the "Black" comment and the marketing aspect of it - it is a great song, with great lyrics and a great solo. Which does not remind me of the 80's at all. And I grew up in the 80's.
Yellow Moon is awesome too... The lyrics are bit more abstract though. Lyric wise, I still try to wrap my head around this song...
Yellow Moon is one of my favourite songs from LB, would make a great opener (do it in Leeds). Would rather heat it than Pendulum, still cannot get the big deal with that song.
Pendulum is awesome because it's creative and seems like something different for PJ. IMO. That song surprised me when I listened to it, and that is a good thing.
I still don't see the Sirens and the "power ballade"' connection, but thats maybe just me. If there is one thing wrong about Sirens it is the expectations people had. Pronouncing it as the "next Black" was a huge mistake and almost asking for a backlash. If you take all that stuff away though, and forget the "Black" comment and the marketing aspect of it - it is a great song, with great lyrics and a great solo. Which does not remind me of the 80's at all. And I grew up in the 80's.
Yellow Moon is awesome too... The lyrics are bit more abstract though. Lyric wise, I still try to wrap my head around this song...
I think the power ballad thing comes from the massive guitar crescendo that starts at about 3:45 and then tapers down in a way very similar to that song that plays during Rocky's big training montage in the snow in Rocky 4. A then there is the fact that there are honest to god "soaring vocals" in it. Not just powerful vocals. Actually soaring. And then the piano that is slightly reminiscent of November Rain. Put it all together, and it's Power Ballad 101. It's a catchy song musically. But it's got a pretty huge cheeze factor for sure. I love the message of the song.... but I still feel like it's kind of a confused song overall. And it is definitely a power ballad, which is just kind of weird to hear coming from PJ.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Yeah, I remember you and I had this November Rain discussion once before when Sirens came out.. And we didn't disagree then, We still don't, agree now, I think ;-). And thats ok. It would be a boring world if we all agreed on everything.
When I think of "power ballads" I think of Every Rose Has Its Thorns or either other Bon Jovi song or God behold a Michael Bolton song. To me Sirens is much more fragile than that and more interesting in its musical structure..
November Rain IMO is in a complete category by itself. (I am not even sure if I would consider it a "typical" power ballade.) It doesn't follow structure wise the typical power ballad structure - verse, bridge, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus, guitar solo, chorus etc. It seems to me (and seemed to me then) that GNR tried to make "The Stairway to Heaven" of the 90's. They failed IMO for I hate the song. But I think that was the aim. Everything in that song (NR) is too peachy, precise and too perfect.
To me Sirens is not like that. Even though it does follow the verse, bridge, chorus structure to some extent, it is actually not the music that is driving the melody of the somng but the vocal line. That is the opposite of those old (typical) power ballade songs; the guitars were the driving force then, while on Sirens the melody kicks in when Ed starts to sing and the instruments, especially at the beginning, are more setting out a soundscape.
This is the reason why I cannot fit it into the powerballade category. The song is a beast (in my opinion in a positive way) on its own. And structure wise there is something very interesting going on here, where all the instruments, and the vocal line, compliment each other If you take one element out, the whole strcuture will fall apart.,
But like I stated, we "clashed" (even though I don't think we clash, but just have different opinions and what I like about our discussion is that we at least try to motivate our arguments) on this before. What I am more curious about, especially from you, since you do motivate your answers: what are your thoughts of Yellow Moon and what is your interpretation of the lyrics? For the lyrics have me dumbfounded.
Ps: sorry for the spelling mistakes. I cannot see anything in this new format.
I personally like a good power ballad. That I think Sirens absolutely is one isn't a negative in my mind. I think the song is confused in style and musicality. It's trying to be two different songs at once IMO - like it's trying to be something but not quite making it maybe. I just find the whole thing kind of jarring. I don't skip it. I like how heartfelt it is. But it's a weird song for me. I like Yellow Moon way WAY more! It's a fantastic song! Oh, and sorry, I didn't answer your question: I think Yellow Moon is about the culmination of all the changes in our lives, finally ending in death, but the cycle of change continues anyway (such a huge death theme in this album!)
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I personally like a good power ballad. That I think Sirens absolutely is one isn't a negative in my mind. I think the song is confused in style and musicality. It's trying to be two different songs at once IMO - like it's trying to be something but not quite making it maybe. I just find the whole thing kind of jarring. I don't skip it. I like how heartfelt it is. But it's a weird song for me. I like Yellow Moon way WAY more! It's a fantastic song!
(For some reason, I only see the l;ast sentence when I quote you, I don't see it on the forum itself????)
What are your thoughts on the lyrics of YM? What is the song about?
And to me: November Rain, a living nightmare. To me Hell would be NR on contineous repeat.
I personally like a good power ballad. That I think Sirens absolutely is one isn't a negative in my mind. I think the song is confused in style and musicality. It's trying to be two different songs at once IMO - like it's trying to be something but not quite making it maybe. I just find the whole thing kind of jarring. I don't skip it. I like how heartfelt it is. But it's a weird song for me. I like Yellow Moon way WAY more! It's a fantastic song!
(For some reason, I only see the l;ast sentence when I quote you, I don't see it on the forum itself????)
What are your thoughts on the lyrics of YM? What is the song about?
And to me: November Rain, a living nightmare. To me Hell would be NR on contineous repeat.
Updated by last post to answer your question that I forgot to answer btw.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Oh, and sorry, I didn't answer your question: I think Yellow Moon is about the culmination of all the changes in our lives, finally ending in death, but the cycle of change continues anyway (such a huge death in this album!)
Wow, thanks Will be listening to the song tonight with these comments in the back of my mind... I think you are onto something here...
I didn't like either of them in the beginning. After seeing Yellow Moon at shows though, I changed my mind about it. Still not my favorite, but I kind of like it now and won't skip it when it comes one. Sirens, on the other hand, I hated from the start and still hate. It's one of the two PJ songs that I will actually turn off if it comes on the radio (the other being Just Breathe). I'm not a big fan of slower songs in general, but I think the lyrics are what really annoys me about Sirens.
2013: Wrigley Field, Pittsburgh, Brooklyn 1, Brooklyn 2, Philly 1, Philly 2, Baltimore
2014: Cincinnati
2015: Global Citizen Festival
2016: Philly 1, Philly 2, MSG 1, MSG 2, Fenway 1, Fenway 2, Wrigley 1, Wrigley 2
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buck502000
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I didn't like either of them in the beginning. After seeing Yellow Moon at shows though, I changed my mind about it. Still not my favorite, but I kind of like it now and won't skip it when it comes one. Sirens, on the other hand, I hated from the start and still hate. It's one of the two PJ songs that I will actually turn off if it comes on the radio (the other being Just Breathe). I'm not a big fan of slower songs in general, but I think the lyrics are what really annoys me about Sirens.
Glorified G holds a special place in my heart as a song that doesn't get played when it comes on.
Well I've all but forgotten what I wanted to write, seeing as I had to log in three times before I was actually logged in. Love this new forum (what a joke, I'm embarrassed for them).
Anyway, when people say that Sirens is the only song on LB that they skip, does that mean you listen to Sleeping... and Future Days? I'm usually into the slower songs (really liked Just Breathe, especially at The Spectrum with the strings), but SBM is weird and Future Days is just wrecks an otherwise great record.
I think if SBM wasn't already an Ed song, I's sort of appreciate it more. Thought Come Back and Soon Forget were boring at first, but now I see them as essential songs on great records. Maybe someday I'll feel that way about SBM? But again, Future Days is just not good. Maybe when I see it live I'll change my mind.
Those two songs have ruined Yellow Moon for me. Wish YM ended the record.
To be honest, I like the SBM version on the album. Listen to it with headphones. A lot of things going on there.
I think that Sirens post some challenges for some fans, for it is (and I know, I know, I am on repeat), .musically and structure wise an interesting song. It is not as straightforward as it claims to be. IMO at least than. And I like the way is is placed on the album
LB is in my opinion one of their best efforts since Binaural. It also has a similar feel, but is more coherent than Binaural was.
To be honest, I like the SBM version on the album. Listen to it with headphones. A lot of things going on there.
I think that Sirens post some challenges for some fans, for it is (and I know, I know, I am on repeat), .musically and structure wise an interesting song. It is not as straightforward as it claims to be. IMO at least than. And I like the way is is placed on the album
LB is in my opinion one of their best efforts since Binaural. It also has a similar feel, but is more coherent than Binaural was.
A bit off topic, but hay,,,,
Wow, I think Binaural is PJ's most coherent album ever, and that LB lacks that quality because of how totally random and disjointed the order of the track list seems, as though they chose the order when they were all drinking heavily......... I really like the album, but it has its flaws! I think it's funny how much we tend to disagree about this album.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Sirens hit me in a way that no song has since Black. That's not to say it's an equal song to Black. But in Sirens, Ed perfectly captures what it means to be a 30 (or 40 or 50) something married father of two, the same way Black captured what it was like to be a lovelorn teenager or young adult.
But hit me right where I lived in the moment I was living it. The goosebumps were identical, 20 some odd years later.
I agree completely, as no song has come anywhere near how I felt about Black until Sirens was released. Sirens gave me chills the 1st time I heard it because (being much older now) I can understand that even with true love, fear can hang over you like a shadow even when things are good. Eddie sure can write lyrics that just seem so nail the emotions of so many people.
Aug. 05, 2016 - Fenway Park, Boston Oct. 15, 2013 - Worcester, Massachusetts
To be honest, I like the SBM version on the album. Listen to it with headphones. A lot of things going on there.
I think that Sirens post some challenges for some fans, for it is (and I know, I know, I am on repeat), .musically and structure wise an interesting song. It is not as straightforward as it claims to be. IMO at least than. And I like the way is is placed on the album
LB is in my opinion one of their best efforts since Binaural. It also has a similar feel, but is more coherent than Binaural was.
A bit off topic, but hay,,,,
Wow, I think Binaural is PJ's most coherent album ever, and that LB lacks that quality because of how totally random and disjointed the order of the track list seems, as though they chose the order when they were all drinking heavily......... I really like the album, but it has its flaws! I think it's funny how much we tend to disagree about this album.
Well, that does seem the case hahhaha. (Can't find the damn smiley icons.) But Binuaral is in my top four and still above LB; but for way different reasons. Not because of the cohesiveness, but because of the lyrics. The lyrics on Binaural are mindblowing beautiful. True poetry...
Light Years Sleight of Hand Of the Girl Parting Ways
Two pages in and I still don't understand what the title of this thread actually means.
I was implying that Sirens has taken quite a lot of heat - especially among the hardcore. With this much negative attention towards the song it allowed Yellow Moon to flourish and become another wonderful ballad without radioplay.
One song always takes a hit on every album like Oceans from Ten (Yes, to me Oceans is unlistenable). But I still can't figure out why the Backspacer album is so unwelcome from fans in this forum, I really can't.
So I was also trying to say in the thread title that I have a feeling that YM not Sirens would have taken a lot of criticism and not be appreciated if it was on the radio not Sirens.
Sirens hit me in a way that no song has since Black. That's not to say it's an equal song to Black. But in Sirens, Ed perfectly captures what it means to be a 30 (or 40 or 50) something married father of two, the same way Black captured what it was like to be a lovelorn teenager or young adult.
But hit me right where I lived in the moment I was living it. The goosebumps were identical, 20 some odd years later.
This is a great post. Lyrically it's one of Ed's masterpieces.
Betterman is epitome of this discussion as it is probably the most played radio PJ song ever but still gets the biggest singalong at shows but Sirens & Yellow Moon are derided as cheesy & poorer versions of some of the bands best moments. I dont listen to the radio much at all but if i do ever hear PJ song it is always 3 songs & the station it is on says it plays the "hits of today" & none of these are off Lightning Bolt. Sirens is beautiful & Yellow Moon not far behind it
Eastern Creek 95,Syd 1 98,Bris 2 98, Syd 1&2 03, Reading Fest 06, Bris 1 06, London 09, Hyde Park 10, Gold Coast BDO 14
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2010: Newark 5/18 MSG 5/20-21 2011: PJ20 9/3-4 2012: Made In America 9/2
2013: Brooklyn 10/18-19 Philly 10/21-22 Hartford 10/25 2014: ACL10/12
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LOOKING FOR A SINGLE TICKET TO MSG NIGHT 2
SPOT ON!
I love Sirens - their Best song since Some of the pearls on Binaural
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Yellow Moon is awesome too... The lyrics are bit more abstract though. Lyric wise, I still try to wrap my head around this song...
It's a catchy song musically. But it's got a pretty huge cheeze factor for sure. I love the message of the song.... but I still feel like it's kind of a confused song overall. And it is definitely a power ballad, which is just kind of weird to hear coming from PJ.
When I think of "power ballads" I think of Every Rose Has Its Thorns or either other Bon Jovi song or God behold a Michael Bolton song. To me Sirens is much more fragile than that and more interesting in its musical structure..
November Rain IMO is in a complete category by itself. (I am not even sure if I would consider it a "typical" power ballade.) It doesn't follow structure wise the typical power ballad structure - verse, bridge, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus, guitar solo, chorus etc. It seems to me (and seemed to me then) that GNR tried to make "The Stairway to Heaven" of the 90's. They failed IMO for I hate the song. But I think that was the aim. Everything in that song (NR) is too peachy, precise and too perfect.
To me Sirens is not like that. Even though it does follow the verse, bridge, chorus structure to some extent, it is actually not the music that is driving the melody of the somng but the vocal line. That is the opposite of those old (typical) power ballade songs; the guitars were the driving force then, while on Sirens the melody kicks in when Ed starts to sing and the instruments, especially at the beginning, are more setting out a soundscape.
This is the reason why I cannot fit it into the powerballade category. The song is a beast (in my opinion in a positive way) on its own. And structure wise there is something very interesting going on here, where all the instruments, and the vocal line, compliment each other If you take one element out, the whole strcuture will fall apart.,
But like I stated, we "clashed" (even though I don't think we clash, but just have different opinions and what I like about our discussion is that we at least try to motivate our arguments) on this before. What I am more curious about, especially from you, since you do motivate your answers: what are your thoughts of Yellow Moon and what is your interpretation of the lyrics? For the lyrics have me dumbfounded.
Ps: sorry for the spelling mistakes. I cannot see anything in this new format.
I like Yellow Moon way WAY more! It's a fantastic song!
Oh, and sorry, I didn't answer your question: I think Yellow Moon is about the culmination of all the changes in our lives, finally ending in death, but the cycle of change continues anyway (such a huge death theme in this album!)
What are your thoughts on the lyrics of YM? What is the song about?
And to me: November Rain, a living nightmare. To me Hell would be NR on contineous repeat.
Might have been the best three song combo I saw on the tour. And made me absolutely love Yellow Moon.
2014: Cincinnati
2015: Global Citizen Festival
2016: Philly 1, Philly 2, MSG 1, MSG 2, Fenway 1, Fenway 2, Wrigley 1, Wrigley 2
2017: Rock N Roll Hall of Fame Induction
2018: Krakow, Chicago 1, Chicago 2, Boston 1, Boston 2
Anyway, when people say that Sirens is the only song on LB that they skip, does that mean you listen to Sleeping... and Future Days? I'm usually into the slower songs (really liked Just Breathe, especially at The Spectrum with the strings), but SBM is weird and Future Days is just wrecks an otherwise great record.
I think if SBM wasn't already an Ed song, I's sort of appreciate it more. Thought Come Back and Soon Forget were boring at first, but now I see them as essential songs on great records. Maybe someday I'll feel that way about SBM? But again, Future Days is just not good. Maybe when I see it live I'll change my mind.
Those two songs have ruined Yellow Moon for me. Wish YM ended the record.
I think that Sirens post some challenges for some fans, for it is (and I know, I know, I am on repeat), .musically and structure wise an interesting song. It is not as straightforward as it claims to be. IMO at least than. And I like the way is is placed on the album
LB is in my opinion one of their best efforts since Binaural. It also has a similar feel, but is more coherent than Binaural was.
A bit off topic, but hay,,,,
Oct. 15, 2013 - Worcester, Massachusetts
BRAD- April 27, 2012 Seattle, WA
Pearl Jam- September 30, 2012 Missoula, MT
Pearl Jam- November 30, 2013 Spokane, WA
Pearl Jam- December 6, 2013 Seattle WA
Light Years
Sleight of Hand
Of the Girl
Parting Ways
In awe...
Here to die.
Scared alive.
One song always takes a hit on every album like Oceans from Ten (Yes, to me Oceans is unlistenable). But I still can't figure out why the Backspacer album is so unwelcome from fans in this forum, I really can't.
So I was also trying to say in the thread title that I have a feeling that YM not Sirens would have taken a lot of criticism and not be appreciated if it was on the radio not Sirens.