Israeli Apartheid

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,282
    status quo means the continual land theft...
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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,282
    so what does the term "state minus" mean?

    And Mr Lieberman? minding our own business means returning every last dollar sent to your government. Soooo.....

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israeli-leader-thinks-a-state-minus-is-enough-for-the-palestinians/2017/01/26/658fa5a6-e3cf-11e6-879b-356663383f1b_story.html?tid=sm_fb_wd&utm_term=.d905b5b96b07
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,950
    "We waited for Trump and we'll exploit the situation to produce extensive construction plans for Jerusalem," Meir Turgeman, deputy mayor of Jerusalem and chairman of the Jerusalem Local Planning Committee, told "Globes" at the conference of the Association of Contractors and Builders in Jerusalem and the Association of Contractors and Builders in Beersheva and the Negev on Friday.

    Why wait for Trump? What does us pres have to do with Israeli "settlements"? Nobody including the UN stopped them before.
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,950
    To quote rsq...you can't truss it

    https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/netanyahu-hails-trumps-cruel-racist-crackdown

    Netanyahu’s wall is part of a racist policy to keep refugees and migrants from African countries out of Israel.

    The Israeli prime minister has previously expressed anti-Mexican bigotry similar to his racist views of Palestinians and Africans.

    As author Max Blumenthal discovered, Netanyahu argued in a 1993 book that creating a Palestinian state could lead Latinos to demand the creation of a “second Mexico” in the southwestern United States as a result of “continuous emigration from Mexico.” This warning was intended to counteract arguments for a Palestinian state.

    Ideology aside, Israel benefits directly from US militarization of its southern border. The Obama administration, for instance, already awarded a $145 million contract to Israeli arms maker Elbit Systems for surveillance equipment along the frontier.

    Eroding support for Israel
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 6,672
    JC29856 said:

    To quote rsq...you can't truss it

    https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/netanyahu-hails-trumps-cruel-racist-crackdown

    Netanyahu’s wall is part of a racist policy to keep refugees and migrants from African countries out of Israel.

    The Israeli prime minister has previously expressed anti-Mexican bigotry similar to his racist views of Palestinians and Africans.

    As author Max Blumenthal discovered, Netanyahu argued in a 1993 book that creating a Palestinian state could lead Latinos to demand the creation of a “second Mexico” in the southwestern United States as a result of “continuous emigration from Mexico.” This warning was intended to counteract arguments for a Palestinian state.

    Ideology aside, Israel benefits directly from US militarization of its southern border. The Obama administration, for instance, already awarded a $145 million contract to Israeli arms maker Elbit Systems for surveillance equipment along the frontier.

    Eroding support for Israel

    I have no problem with walls on the outside of a country. It is a nation's right to fortify its borders, just as it is a nation's right to define and enforce an immigration policy. The right to citizenship, restrictive and unfair from a human perspective as they are, only extends to those born in a country.

    If Netanyahu was talking about a certain other wall, I'd say that's a serious false equivalence but thankfully even he knows better.

    My biggest concern about the wall is that I don't believe it is realistic economically from a long-term perspective. With or without a wall, the outlook is pretty grim:

    1. Welcome to America, illegal Mexican immigrants. You're here because we tolerate your presence while a surplus of America's worst jobs exist. You may do them, so long as you're willing to accept even less than an American would.
    2. You're no longer welcome in America, illegal Mexican immigrants. We have put billions of dollars into executing a plan to return you to your homes in Mexico. Your stays have been cancelled so that we can return America's worst jobs to Americans.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • rssesqrssesq Fairfield CountyPosts: 3,299
    Apartheid in South Africa = bad
    Apartheid in Israel = kosher

    Border Walls in America = bad
    Border Walls in Israel = kosher
    "Apology made to whoever it pleases, still they got me like Jesus." Chuck D
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,950
    benjs said:

    JC29856 said:

    To quote rsq...you can't truss it

    https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/netanyahu-hails-trumps-cruel-racist-crackdown

    Netanyahu’s wall is part of a racist policy to keep refugees and migrants from African countries out of Israel.

    The Israeli prime minister has previously expressed anti-Mexican bigotry similar to his racist views of Palestinians and Africans.

    As author Max Blumenthal discovered, Netanyahu argued in a 1993 book that creating a Palestinian state could lead Latinos to demand the creation of a “second Mexico” in the southwestern United States as a result of “continuous emigration from Mexico.” This warning was intended to counteract arguments for a Palestinian state.

    Ideology aside, Israel benefits directly from US militarization of its southern border. The Obama administration, for instance, already awarded a $145 million contract to Israeli arms maker Elbit Systems for surveillance equipment along the frontier.

    Eroding support for Israel

    I have no problem with walls on the outside of a country. It is a nation's right to fortify its borders, just as it is a nation's right to define and enforce an immigration policy. The right to citizenship, restrictive and unfair from a human perspective as they are, only extends to those born in a country.

    If Netanyahu was talking about a certain other wall, I'd say that's a serious false equivalence but thankfully even he knows better.

    My biggest concern about the wall is that I don't believe it is realistic economically from a long-term perspective. With or without a wall, the outlook is pretty grim:

    1. Welcome to America, illegal Mexican immigrants. You're here because we tolerate your presence while a surplus of America's worst jobs exist. You may do them, so long as you're willing to accept even less than an American would.
    2. You're no longer welcome in America, illegal Mexican immigrants. We have put billions of dollars into executing a plan to return you to your homes in Mexico. Your stays have been cancelled so that we can return America's worst jobs to Americans.
    I don't disagree with your post, government estimates are on par with the building sports complexes, usually four times more than projected at the expense of taxpayers. The cost argument is a weak argument IMO, if we can find the money for endless wars of choice, we can find the money for a border wall, if that is important to those calling the shots.
    The building of an impenetrable wall is another discussion, Ill ignore that for now. Anyway since you're focusing on the worst of American jobs, which specific jobs are the worst? I ask because I would like to know if any Americans are performing those jobs now and also to know which sectors could potentially be affected most?
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,950
    Hopefully DeVos doesn't consider school zones enemy territory.
    Where's the resistance been for the real resistance? I'm sure if allowed the muslim atiya would have preferred being detained at an airport instead of shot and paralyzed for being muslim.

    Israel argues that its army is not accountable to any victim of its violence in Gaza because they are residents of an “enemy territory.”

    https://electronicintifada.net/content/family-boy-paralyzed-israel-sue-israel-damages/19381

    On his 15th birthday, Atiya Nabahin was shot in the neck by Israeli soldiers while he was on his way home from school. That was in November 2014, less than three months into the ceasefire that ended Israel’s bombing campaign against Gaza during the summer of that year.

    At the time Atiya was shot, there were no so-called “clashes” occurring at the boundary between Gaza and present-day Israel. The Israeli soldiers opened fire across the boundary at the young teen.

    After spending six months at an Israeli hospital, at the expense of the Palestinian Authority, doctors admitted Atiya was permanently paralyzed in all four of his limbs. He would be dependent on others for the rest of his life.
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,282
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,950
    edited February 1
    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/LIVE-1.768926?v=F01C21F703020BE87512825636AE0FDC

    Pro-settlement activists scuffle with Israeli police during an operation by Israeli police to evict residents from Israeli settler outpost of Amona in the occupied West Bank February 1, 2017.
    Amona Evacuation Live Updates: Police Break Into Illegal Outpost Homes, Clash With Protesters
    Senior minister vows annexation of West Bank after Amona evacuation Right-wing lawmaker says evacuation like 'brutally raping a woman' Security forces to Amona: Leave now or be forcefully removed.

    That's some description!
    "..but what's a kid doing clashing with police??"...well their stealing his home!


    Bennett, speaking at the Knesset, called the Amona settlers "heroes," and said that the bill which legalizes the seizure of private Palestinian land will soon be passed, putting an end to the "method of legal uprooting" of Israeli outposts. "Thanks to the campaign in Amona, thousands of families will be rescued from being evicted from their homes. I call on the pioneers of our generation, the settlers of Judea and Samaria, to lift up your heads," he said.
    Post edited by JC29856 on
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • rssesqrssesq Fairfield CountyPosts: 3,299
    are the "settlers" like poors who cant afford the burbs? I'm curious who would want to live on stolen land unless the other option was similar to Cabrini Greens or Father Panic Village?
    "Apology made to whoever it pleases, still they got me like Jesus." Chuck D
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 6,672
    rssesq said:

    are the "settlers" like poors who cant afford the burbs? I'm curious who would want to live on stolen land unless the other option was similar to Cabrini Greens or Father Panic Village?

    The settlers come in two varieties that I've seen. The first are ones who believe that their presence is a defiant act to stake claim to the land, in an effort to close a covenant between the Jewish people and their god which would include not only their settlements, but the remainder of Gaza and the West Bank. The other are Mizrahi Jews (Jews from the non-Palestinian Middle East) who were exiled from Muslim-dominant nations. These Jews were originally seen as second-class citizens, and Israel's government seized the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone - grow a population to make it harder to displace (aka stake claim to the land), and segregate the second-class Mizrahim. The Mizrahim were given tax incentives to settle there, and many came with little money to their names, sealing the deal on where they would reside.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,950
    benjs said:

    rssesq said:

    are the "settlers" like poors who cant afford the burbs? I'm curious who would want to live on stolen land unless the other option was similar to Cabrini Greens or Father Panic Village?

    The settlers come in two varieties that I've seen. The first are ones who believe that their presence is a defiant act to stake claim to the land, in an effort to close a covenant between the Jewish people and their god which would include not only their settlements, but the remainder of Gaza and the West Bank. The other are Mizrahi Jews (Jews from the non-Palestinian Middle East) who were exiled from Muslim-dominant nations. These Jews were originally seen as second-class citizens, and Israel's government seized the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone - grow a population to make it harder to displace (aka stake claim to the land), and segregate the second-class Mizrahim. The Mizrahim were given tax incentives to settle there, and many came with little money to their names, sealing the deal on where they would reside.
    Similar to the original "ghettos"!
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • rssesqrssesq Fairfield CountyPosts: 3,299
    JC29856 said:

    benjs said:

    rssesq said:

    are the "settlers" like poors who cant afford the burbs? I'm curious who would want to live on stolen land unless the other option was similar to Cabrini Greens or Father Panic Village?

    The settlers come in two varieties that I've seen. The first are ones who believe that their presence is a defiant act to stake claim to the land, in an effort to close a covenant between the Jewish people and their god which would include not only their settlements, but the remainder of Gaza and the West Bank. The other are Mizrahi Jews (Jews from the non-Palestinian Middle East) who were exiled from Muslim-dominant nations. These Jews were originally seen as second-class citizens, and Israel's government seized the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone - grow a population to make it harder to displace (aka stake claim to the land), and segregate the second-class Mizrahim. The Mizrahim were given tax incentives to settle there, and many came with little money to their names, sealing the deal on where they would reside.
    Similar to the original "ghettos"!
    indeed. they learned much in Germany.
    "Apology made to whoever it pleases, still they got me like Jesus." Chuck D
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,555
    I believe this article is correct in outlining the current strategy in case anybody is wondering.

    http://carolineglick.com/the-trump-way-of-winning-the-war/

    Add on top of this the little dance that is being played... Settlements get expanded...then Trump admonishes the building of new settlements...then Netanyahu puts a stop to some of these settlements. It allows Trump to appear evenhanded even though the article above will likely be the end game.

  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,950
    edited February 4
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/03/upshot/which-country-do-americans-like-most-for-republicans-its-australia.html

    Survey Israel has dropped in ally ranking, from 6 in 2014 to 16 in 2017

    2014 Evy 6 Dem 20 Rep 2
    2017 Evy 16 Dem 28 Rep 5

    Interesting...Israel and partisanship, republicans can not shake that aipac norpac influence.
    Post edited by JC29856 on
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • rssesqrssesq Fairfield CountyPosts: 3,299
    not too bad for cold blooded murder with malice aforethought, he musta had Dershowitz, lol
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/prosecutors-want-3-5-years-jail-for-soldier-convicted-of-manslaughter/
    "Apology made to whoever it pleases, still they got me like Jesus." Chuck D
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,950
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 6,950
    Reports are Israel is doing some lawn mowing in northern Gaza
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • rssesqrssesq Fairfield CountyPosts: 3,299
    "Apology made to whoever it pleases, still they got me like Jesus." Chuck D
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 7,818
    rssesq said:
    This must be one of the attacks Trump was talking about.
    Not!

    Sad.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 6,532
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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,555
    Everything in it's right place
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 5,856
    ^^^^exactly why I hope Pj never plays there.
    'It's all about the music and the fans who have nothing to do with the government'.

    ...until a show is announced, then it's a feather in your political cap, a way to rub it in the face of bds supporters, something to post about in political debate, another band to parade around to normalize the apartheid state.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,555

    ^^^^exactly why I hope Pj never plays there.
    'It's all about the music and the fans who have nothing to do with the government'.

    ...until a show is announced, then it's a feather in your political cap, a way to rub it in the face of bds supporters, something to post about in political debate, another band to parade around to normalize the apartheid state.

    It is all about the music and the fans. Radiohead knows this. Don't take it personally or as an endorsement of Israeli policies. I don't. I do applaud the courage though of any band that chooses to play there in the face of a BDS movement that wants to silence artists.
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 5,856
    Riiiiight..... Radiohead may not see it as an endorsement, and you may not either. But the fact that you bumped an old thread in the political sub forum to gloat about it, and when no one bit, you bumped this one, and you see it as 'courageous' to play Israel, tells me you see it as a political victory....which is bad enough.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,555

    Riiiiight..... Radiohead may not see it as an endorsement, and you may not either. But the fact that you bumped an old thread in the political sub forum to gloat about it, and when no one bit, you bumped this one, and you see it as 'courageous' to play Israel, tells me you see it as a political victory....which is bad enough.

    It is not gloating and it is certainly not a political victory for anybody. The facts on the ground do not change. What it is though is a victory for artists who just want to play. You should applaud that instead of pushing to stifle their voices otherwise you are no better then the Turkish religious police who attacked a Radiohead listening party a few months back.
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 5,856
    Stifle their voices? They can say whateverthefuck they want.

    ...this coming from a guy who supports legislating peaceful protest 'out of existence'.....
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 4,555

    Stifle their voices? They can say whateverthefuck they want.

    ...this coming from a guy who supports legislating peaceful protest 'out of existence'.....

    Hmmmm...I don't recall advocating for that.
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 5,856
    BDS is peaceful protest.
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