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OPEN LETTER TO THE 10 CLUB & TIM BIERMAN TO CHANGE GA LINE
Mamasan Bren
Posts: 959
Dear Tim and the 10 Club-
Tim, perhaps you'll recall a long ago conversation I had with you at PJ's Vegas show at the MGM Grand back in '03. As you know, that Riot Act tour allowed fans to better their seat locations based on seniority in ticketed blocks. The earlier you arrived to get your ticket from your seniority block, the better your ticket location would be (most of the time). I arrived super early in the morning the day of that show and waited the whole day. I was one of maybe five people there. Later that day, some other fans returned with a list of names and all cut in front of me based on its supposed authority. There ended up being more than 50 people in front of me by the time it was all said and done. I spoke to you about this and remember you being appalled. You said it was wrong and shouldn't have been allowed to happen.
Flash forward 10 years to today's current Lightning Bolt tour. The decision has been made to return to GA shows. I for one think that is the way that PJ was always meant to be seen, though being anywhere in the building with them is awesome. I like art. I like seeing art museums and exploring all that a city has to offer. Through 10 Club promotions, the club encourages this experience too as PJ tours in awesome cities around the world. I like seeing PJ up close. I can't have both. If I'm an honest person who is made to wait in a GA line all day to see them up close, I unfortunately can't also spend the day seeing a city, and getting to fraternize with other fans. I'd like to shop on South St. in Philly. I'd like to see the sights of NYC, the Experience Music project and Public Market in Seattle, etc. I believe this to be wrong. I know the band and the club are fans of the Boss. Bruce has a system that eliminates the need for fans to waste their whole day in order to see the show up close. U2 also has a system that eliminates it. What we have now is unauthorized fans showing up early to run their own system with creating a list and using magic markers on hands to enforce it. You have some honest fans that truly wait all day. But then you have other fans that use the list to be away from the line for long periods of times. I feel that one should wait to earn what's worth being earned and not be out of line for long periods of times because they once were there and put their name on some list. Enforcing the fairness of this is near impossible. The true fans who are honest with their waiting shouldn't have to try to enforce policing of abusers.
I appeal to you to look into changing this for future tours. I have always been impressed with the intelligence and caring nature that the club handles its many interactions with its fans. I think the fans deserve to have a system in place that allows them to enjoy their day exploring a city rather than sitting on a sidewalk all day.
Sincerely yours,
~Bren 140xxx
Tim, perhaps you'll recall a long ago conversation I had with you at PJ's Vegas show at the MGM Grand back in '03. As you know, that Riot Act tour allowed fans to better their seat locations based on seniority in ticketed blocks. The earlier you arrived to get your ticket from your seniority block, the better your ticket location would be (most of the time). I arrived super early in the morning the day of that show and waited the whole day. I was one of maybe five people there. Later that day, some other fans returned with a list of names and all cut in front of me based on its supposed authority. There ended up being more than 50 people in front of me by the time it was all said and done. I spoke to you about this and remember you being appalled. You said it was wrong and shouldn't have been allowed to happen.
Flash forward 10 years to today's current Lightning Bolt tour. The decision has been made to return to GA shows. I for one think that is the way that PJ was always meant to be seen, though being anywhere in the building with them is awesome. I like art. I like seeing art museums and exploring all that a city has to offer. Through 10 Club promotions, the club encourages this experience too as PJ tours in awesome cities around the world. I like seeing PJ up close. I can't have both. If I'm an honest person who is made to wait in a GA line all day to see them up close, I unfortunately can't also spend the day seeing a city, and getting to fraternize with other fans. I'd like to shop on South St. in Philly. I'd like to see the sights of NYC, the Experience Music project and Public Market in Seattle, etc. I believe this to be wrong. I know the band and the club are fans of the Boss. Bruce has a system that eliminates the need for fans to waste their whole day in order to see the show up close. U2 also has a system that eliminates it. What we have now is unauthorized fans showing up early to run their own system with creating a list and using magic markers on hands to enforce it. You have some honest fans that truly wait all day. But then you have other fans that use the list to be away from the line for long periods of times. I feel that one should wait to earn what's worth being earned and not be out of line for long periods of times because they once were there and put their name on some list. Enforcing the fairness of this is near impossible. The true fans who are honest with their waiting shouldn't have to try to enforce policing of abusers.
I appeal to you to look into changing this for future tours. I have always been impressed with the intelligence and caring nature that the club handles its many interactions with its fans. I think the fans deserve to have a system in place that allows them to enjoy their day exploring a city rather than sitting on a sidewalk all day.
Sincerely yours,
~Bren 140xxx
1/95 DC 7/95 Chicago Tor Tol Cha 96 AlpV I II Chi St L KC 98 BSB I II 99 Phx Vegas Fresno SBern 00 BSB I II 01 (met ed) Vegas Phx Fargo St. Paul Chicago Alpine V Indy Col Virg Phi I II MSG I II (got on DVD!) 03 Calg 05 Clev Vegas LA I II SBar 06 Lon Dus Cop Nij Bel 07 Phi I II DC MSG I II Har BOS I II 08, LA3/4, SD '09, MSG I II '10, Missoula, London ONT, Wrigley, SD, LA1/2, Portland. Wrigley '16 I and II.
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2000: Cincinnati, Columbus
2003: Cleveland, Columbus
2004: Toledo
2006: Cleveland, Cincinnati, Gorge Night 1
2008: Washington D.C.
2009: Chicago Night 1, Seattle Night 1, Philadelphia Night 3, Philadelphia Night 4
2010: Columbus, Indianapolis, Cleveland
2011: Detroit EV, Chicago 1 EV
2012: Atlanta
2013: Chicago, Pittsburgh
2014: Cincinnati
I'm 5'3, and for GA I need to be very close to the rail or I won't be able to see anything and I'm willing to stand in line all day long for that. I think OP did a great job explaining the situation. There should be a Ten Club GA policy if they want to do it right, otherwise it will always be a mess (although in Europe it tends to work pretty well).
'10- MSG 1-2 '11- PJ20
'12- MIA; DeLuna '13- Wrigley; Pitt; Brooklyn 1-2; Philly 1-2; Baltimore; Seattle
'14- Denver '16- Philly 1-2; MSG 2
'17- Pilgrimage Music Fest (Eddie)
'18- Fenway
What does Bruce do to counter this? Did I miss that? I like the post, just not sure what the alternative is...
Off topic - Scratched Vinyl, I love your pic! Propagandhi rules!
On topic - I'd love to see this fixed to. I have GA show coming up soon.
Springsteen's is somewhat unique. The whole floor is GA but there's seperated front section (imagine a current pj show, but outside the current GA pit there's more GA). All the tickets are GA. You basically show up in the afternoon and get a number. You can then spend the afternoon having a few cold ones. You come back around 5pm, they draw a number, then they start letting people in with that number. IE if they pull 350, 350 is #1 goes in first until they get to the highest number issued, then go back to #1 and work their way up.
The system isn't mean to get people on the rail. It's mean to get people in the front part of the pit. Since the whole floor is GA is how they determine who gets in the front section.
I've seen u2 do something similar but not nearly as organized. Sometimes it's first come first serve. The vertigo tour did it by random wins when your GA ticket was scanner.
Either way its letting people into the front section, not guaranteeing them rail.
Since you've already got into the GA section of the PJ it seems silly to need similar systems.
I dunno... I'd like to think if you waited all day you'd get in. The venues all operate differently. Some have multiple access to get on the floor.
It seems like a waste of man power to have PJ management organize the lineup just to enforce some rules so 50 people can be on the rail... lol...
edit: I just read the other thread that talked about a few fans running their own numbering system. So people wait all day only get budge in line by people who say they reserved a number. It never ceases to amaze me how dickish people can be to each other. I guess maybe PJ does need to do a Bruce type system. Still seems sill though... its all for rail which has room for 50 people.... not like the other bands where its several thousand people trying to get in a pit that has room for 300 to 1000 people.
This is not fully correct as it relates to Bruce. I've seen him over 200 times and I've even helped run lists on occasion. Prior to Bruce going to the lottery, there were always fan run lists that allowed people to leave for intervals and have to check in at designated times. They started using the lottery regularly because Springsteen fans are very devoted and venues in the US were freaking out about fans with lists coordinating the line for 2-3 days. And even now in Europe that is the way the Springsteen system works and Bruce's people coordinate with the list holders. I saw a show in Germany this past summer and the list started the night before. There were check-ins at midnight and 6 AM. I showed up at around 11 AM and was given a number and there were check-ins and not until 4 PM did I have to get in line permanently. In some European cities this past summer, lists started up to a week before the show with regular check-ins for that period (this is totally insane IMO and the Springsteen org should not allow it).
So you can say that you don't like the use of the list but it goes on for Bruce regularly still in Europe and I lists were also kept on U2360, which was first come, first serve for the pit.
This subject is so overplayed. It's boring at this stage.
Whilst the discussion is necessary - there was a thread 'the line and list' for this to be debated?
Open letter? Why here, send it to Tenclub if its for them
I bet they can't believe that a group of adults carry on like this.
Yes. Yes. Yes. ^^^^^^^^
And even if you were at the back of GA, you'd stil have a great view. And a rail to rest your back on too.
Agreed. I'm sure they think that of about 99.9% of the completely ridiculous dumb threads that get started on this site.
2000: Cincinnati, Columbus
2003: Cleveland, Columbus
2004: Toledo
2006: Cleveland, Cincinnati, Gorge Night 1
2008: Washington D.C.
2009: Chicago Night 1, Seattle Night 1, Philadelphia Night 3, Philadelphia Night 4
2010: Columbus, Indianapolis, Cleveland
2011: Detroit EV, Chicago 1 EV
2012: Atlanta
2013: Chicago, Pittsburgh
2014: Cincinnati
Springsteen runs a lottery for shows in the States and the occasional European show.
During a 4-5 hour window, usually 12:30- 4:30 you can come to the arena and get a numbered wristband. You must be with whomever you are going to the show.
This is run by Springsteen tour staff. Not by fans or venue employees.
You can leave but must be back for the lottery at 5:30 or so.
Then a random number is selected and the pit line starts with that number.
For example. ... If number 242 is pulled then that person is first and the next 500 or so people get in the pit. If your number is before 242 or after 742 you don't get in the pit. However if your are 242 and you are there with 240 and 241 they get in as well.
This goes for whomever is with 742 as well.
Then you line up in order and when doors open or just before the pit line is escorted into the arena and on to the floor in an orderly fashion. No running, pushing, shoving, or people getting to the floor from any other doors.
No need to arrive at 6 a.m. and no need to be their all day.
I've been lucky and been in the pit for every Springsteen show that I've had g.a. tickets.
This was set up in reaction to fan run lines that were getting out of control
This ridiculous thread and the others make it sound like the show is ruined for you if you can't be first row. If that's the case, please don't go to the shows.
2000: Cincinnati, Columbus
2003: Cleveland, Columbus
2004: Toledo
2006: Cleveland, Cincinnati, Gorge Night 1
2008: Washington D.C.
2009: Chicago Night 1, Seattle Night 1, Philadelphia Night 3, Philadelphia Night 4
2010: Columbus, Indianapolis, Cleveland
2011: Detroit EV, Chicago 1 EV
2012: Atlanta
2013: Chicago, Pittsburgh
2014: Cincinnati
It's all about getting a pick or tambourine man
2006: Dublin; Leeds; Arnhem
2007: London
2009: Manchester
2012: Manchester I & II : EV Manchester : Soundgarden Shepherds Bush
2013: Brad Manchester : Soundgarden Manchester
2014: Amsterdam I & II; Berlin; Leeds; Milton Keynes
2018: Berlin; London II; Boston II
Bootleg Reviews: http://pjbootlegreviews.blogspot.com/
I mean... it's not anyone affiliated in any way with the band or the venue, right?
8-3-00 - Virginia Beach
4-16-03 - Charlotte
5-27-06 - Camden 1
5-28-06 - Camden 2
5-30-06 - DC
6-17-08 - Virginia Beach
6-22-08 - DC
5-13-10 - Bristow
10-27-13 - Baltimore
10-29-13 - Charlottesville
4-18-16 - Hampton
After seeing some friends positioned at the "rail" at Wrigley Field, I thought I needed to be in GA for my next show...to catch a pick from Mike or get a chance to thank Pearl Jam in person, but still I hesitated to request GA tickets during the 10c presale of this tour.....
now I get it! :fp:
Thank you for posting this "Open Letter"....now I know I will be very happy where ever 10c puts me Tuesday night in Phoenix
Peace
Peace Love & Pearl Jam forever!!
Charlotte NC 2013
Greenville SC 2016
Wrigley 1 2018
I don't normally like to call people out and prefer to mind my own business but these threads have been pissing me off and if you know me, I rarely get pissed off. If people who are against the list and numbers are people who got screwed waiting in line I'd be interested in hearing your bad experiences, however it seems like people who haven't been part of the line are the ones who are most upset by it and I'm not sure how this impacts you. If I'm mistaken about this, I apologize in advance, and do definitely correct my perception. Otherwise, these threads are just manufacturing negativity for a situation that doesn't even really exist in reality.
My experiences in line have been nothing but positive and in fact represent some of my fondest memories from the shows so I don't understand where all this angst is coming from and why we are even talking about it unless people who have been waiting in line feel like they have been wronged but so far I haven't seen any such person raise their hand. In fact, most of us have fond memories of being in line.
For reference, I waited in 3 GA lines for leg 1 (Worcester 2, Brooklyn 1 and Brooklyn 2) and also for Wrigley. My goal was to get on the rail (and I did each time). I only left the line to go use the bathroom, get lunch, coffee. I did not leave to go to the preparty, or go take a shower, or go nap. Neither did the people immediately around me. I checked with everyone around me before I stepped away, and offered to bring stuff back for folks (and others also reciprocated). It was a very bonding experience with fans I had just met whom I'm now friends with.
The reason for the list and numbers is to prevent exactly what people on OP's other thread are so angry about, people who try to claim to have been there all day when in reality they were not. It helps provide some order in what would otherwise be a chaotic situation. It's fan-run, it's informal and yes, in theory no one has to "listen" to anyone. However, the lines I've been in have been '"run" (if we must call it that) with the utmost respect to others so anyone not "following" was really the asshole. Were there conflicts? Yes, but we talked and worked it out. It was a great display of the spirit of this community, unlike this thread.
What she so eloquently said!
See you in the line one day
Werchter/A'dam1/Werchter/EVA'dam2/EVLondon1/Portland/Spokane/Calgary/Vancouver/
Seattle
Longtime ghost
Peace Love & Pearl Jam forever!!
The Springsteen system sounds very reasonable.
Wrigley was a joke, in regards to this so called "List" you so admirably defend. I know for a fact that people were calling in to get their assigned spot on that list. And some of those who were calling in are some of the most active/respected members on this board. I'm not going to call people out, but I heard it directly from these "respected Members".
To the OP- no need to further discuss this. Stop complaining.
This is very simple. If you're in line- then you have your spot. If someone tries to pull this BS list at a show that I'm at I will object and not Give a Crap if no one else agrees. You guys can start your so called list behind me.
Been going to shows since early 90's and the way we would do it back then was, STAND IN LINE! Guess what?!?! it worked!! Restroom breaks and running to pick up some fast food and bring it back was all good- but stepping away for hours or letting 10 of your buddies cut in line was a big time NO NO.... You elitist on this board wont pull this shit on the rest of us. At least Not on the WEST COAST you wont!
This elitist crap only works on this board, not all fans spend their days reading this nonsense. Some of us fans are simply about the Music/Band- not all this H.S. drama.
The Bruce Springsteen system does sound swell to me as well. Must say that i agree with more the positives of this thread though