It's kinda funny that when a 10C member with a higher number complains about their seats, the lower numbered fans tell them "Be glad you got those tickets. If you don't like them, then cancel your membership."
Yet, when the rare time the lower numbers get seated back, they feel like they have a right to complain.
Well that's really hypocritical.
If you don't like the tickets you got, cancel your membership. Be lucky you got in because I'm sure there were tons of other fans who would've killed for your seats. No where in the 10C terms and conditions state that you are promised front row for EVERY show you attend.
If you have a problem with getting anything less, then cancel your membership because you obviously don't deserve to sit close anyway if you are more concered about the seats than the actual experience.
Noblesville 6/03
Toledo 10/04
Grand Rapids 10/04
Grand Rapids 5/06
Cleveland 5/06
Cincinnati 6/06
*hopefully sometime before I die* Noblesville
Songs I'm hoping to hear live: Nothingman, In My Tree, Indifference, and Animal
It is so great when people on here get so upset when they disagree with someone else. It is so the opposite of what a fan Pearl Jam should be, it isn't even funny...
First, I want to say that I respect your opinion and I think senority in the FC should play some type of role.....however.....
Your logic that time in the FC equals passion does not make sense, in fact many would agrue the exact opposite in that time equals complacency, which is the likely reason for the mixing up of FC seats at the GR show.
Not that I feel I need to explain myself to you but, the reason I didn't join the FC earlier was because all my friends thought I was insane and obsessive about Pearl Jam and in my teenage mind I figured if I could say, "Hey, its not like I joined the fan club," I could retain some sort of...dignity? (I can't think of exactly what I mean)... Believe me, I regret it now, but don't think because you were in the FC before me or anyone else that it somehow makes you some all-mighty fan.
The only difference between old and new FC members is a number. But, I said before that I think senority sould play a role, it just should not be the only factor for determining seating at a show.....everyone should have a chance to get into the first 10 rows.
I can honestly say that all I would ever want is to sit in the first 5 rows one time, after that I don't give a shit where I sit and I would happily give up my tickets to someone else who had never sat that close just so they could have the experience.
I love you and all Pearl Jam fans....remember we all share a special bond....let's all stop being so selfish and start caring about other people.
Great points above....
First of all I think it is cool that this happened, weather it is a mistake or was a decision by the band.. the only people I feel sorry for were the ones who had a low # and this was their only show this tour, which I am sure is a very small minority. Since three other shows were very close, I am sure those "super fans" with the low #'s were not only attending one of those shows. Also if this was a decision by the band, are you surprised? Fighting for the little guy is one of the things most of us love about the band. For the record, and before anyone starts complaining about me.. I am a 184XX number and a highly devoted fan who never realized there was a 10C until 98 or whenever it was that I joined. I will also admit my bias as I would love 1st 5 rows just once in my life then I would also happily live with my normal seats or even worse.
On to the purpose of the thread, I think a cool idea for this type of thing is for the band to take every 2nd show in the same town and do a random dispersion for that show. That way at the 1st show, in lets say Boston, Senority would rule but for that second show.. all the #'s would get tossed into a hat and pulled for first row on back. It would be publicly stated that senority would fly out the window for the second show so everyone would know what they were getting into. Let me know what you all think of that idea.
"don't even think about getting inside. Voices in my head...."
All I can say is thank you TEN CLUB! As someone who was only 6 years old back in 92, I don't have the privilege of being in the front rows every night. This "mix up" or experiment was exactly what I have been waiting for.
I had section 101, row B. When I walked towards my seat I could have cried. It was a beautiful view. Finally something for the younger diehards.
"Tickets are allocated by seniority within the fan club. The longer you have been in the club, the closer your seats are to the stage. Proximity to the stage is also contingent upon how many members are in attendance at a show."
so, those who are cool with this change... you're saying it's OK for the band to alter their Terms and Conditions at will - following a non-refundable sale, and when the purchaser does not obtain the tickets until just hours before the show? This would be (unless a mishap) 100% illegal.
Wow... I hope when you people have a wedding or something, you rent a nice banquet room that is far away from home, and when you arrive, they put you in the basement, and they tell you "some people would be very thankful for this basement".
I have NO problem if they want to put members 25xxx in the rafters, and 300xxx on Eddies lap - no problem at all... but not for the tickets already sold. The tickets already sold fall within THEIR OWN terms and conditions.
COMPLETELY AGREE!! I for one do not mind the "newbies" sitting closer even though I have a decent 10C number (169xxx). However, the 10C DOES state that tickets are based on seniority. We have no clue where they will be until we get there. If they are going to do something like this in the future, they should atleast alert people of their seat location, not leave it a mystery, and piss off everyone with very low 10C numbers. They expect to be close, as well they should be. For as many rules as the 10C has for us, they broke a BIG one that they have for themselves...
PJ can and will assign tickets as they like and it's their right. I'm sure they enjoyed themselves even more by being energized by seeing the newer faces and their extreme pleasure Friday night.
problem is, PJ changed the way they were assigning tickets mid-tour, after tickets were bought and promises were made in writing.
It isn't a huge deal to me, and I can see both sides of the issue. I'm glad people with higher numbers got to experience things up close. I don't really feel bad for the low number people who have been in the front row for 56 shows and just got bumped to the wing for one.
I do, however, think people have a point when they complain that they didn't get what they signed up for. When you bought the tickets, it said plain as day, "higher seniority gets you closer to the stage." That obviously wasn't true in Grand Rapids, and if it was done on purpose, it kind of is a little crappy. just a little.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
There seems to be alot of pissed off people in this thread!!!
Let me just say that if I would have been the guy in farthest back upper corner behind a pillar, I would have been happy just to have been there for this show!
problem is, PJ changed the way they were assigning tickets mid-tour, after tickets were bought and promises were made in writing.
It isn't a huge deal to me, and I can see both sides of the issue. I'm glad people with higher numbers got to experience things up close. I don't really feel bad for the low number people who have been in the front row for 56 shows and just got bumped to the wing for one.
I do, however, think people have a point when they complain that they didn't get what they signed up for. When you bought the tickets, it said plain as day, "higher seniority gets you closer to the stage." That obviously wasn't true in Grand Rapids, and if it was done on purpose, it kind of is a little crappy. just a little.
yours and every other statement like it with the same argument about the seniority policy "begs the question"...
maybe you shouldn't being asking yourselves "why me?", but "why?"...
seems to me like the band is sending a pretty clear message....don't you think?
Of course I value your opinion. It's what makes you wrong and me right.
if thats with the switch, man i'd hate your # regularly
Never have
I had 10c tickets in London, ON and I was on the sides. Got Hamilton and Cleveland with ticketmaster... I can't say I don't care where I seat, but I don't see the big deal.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
COMPLETELY AGREE!! I for one do not mind the "newbies" sitting closer even though I have a decent 10C number (169xxx). However, the 10C DOES state that tickets are based on seniority. We have no clue where they will be until we get there. If they are going to do something like this in the future, they should atleast alert people of their seat location, not leave it a mystery, and piss off everyone with very low 10C numbers. They expect to be close, as well they should be. For as many rules as the 10C has for us, they broke a BIG one that they have for themselves...
all4
Not sure if anyone pointed this out, but they've reserved the rights to make changes to any policy without notice and you're only remedy is to QUIT THE CLUB... I doubt any of the long time members will...
Cut and paste from the ten club site:
LIABILITY DISCLAIMER
THE INFORMATION, PRODUCTS, AND SERVICES INCLUDED IN OR AVAILABLE THROUGH THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES MAY INCLUDE INACCURACIES OR TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS. CHANGES ARE PERIODICALLY MADE TO THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES AND TO THE INFORMATION THEREIN. TEN CLUB AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS MAY MAKE IMPROVEMENTS AND/OR CHANGES IN THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES AT ANY TIME. ADVICE RECEIVED VIA THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON FOR PERSONAL, MEDICAL, LEGAL OR FINANCIAL DECISIONS AND YOU SHOULD CONSULT AN APPROPRIATE PROFESSIONAL FOR SPECIFIC ADVICE TAILORED TO YOUR SITUATION.
TEN CLUB AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE SUITABILITY, RELIABILITY, AVAILABILITY, TIMELINESS, LACK OF VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL COMPONENTS AND ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS CONTAINED WITHIN THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES FOR ANY PURPOSE. ALL SUCH INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. TEN CLUB AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS HEREBY DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS WITH REGARD TO THIS INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS, INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, WORKMANLIKE EFFORT, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT.
YOU SPECIFICALLY AGREE THAT TEN CLUB SHALL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA, ANY MATERIAL OR DATA SENT OR RECEIVED OR NOT SENT OR RECEIVED, OR ANY TRANSACTIONS ENTERED INTO THROUGH A TEN CLUB SITE/SERVICE. YOU SPECIFICALLY AGREE THAT TEN CLUB IS NOT RESPONSIBLE OR LIABLE FOR ANY THREATENING, DEFAMATORY, OBSCENE, OFFENSIVE OR ILLEGAL CONTENT OR CONDUCT OF ANY OTHER PARTY OR ANY INFRINGEMENT OF ANOTHER'S RIGHTS, INCLUDING INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS. YOU SPECIFICALLY AGREE THAT TEN CLUB IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY CONTENT SENT USING AND/OR INCLUDED IN A TEN CLUB SITE/SERVICE BY ANY THIRD PARTY.
IN NO EVENT SHALL TEN CLUB AND/OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, PUNITIVE, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES, WITH THE DELAY OR INABILITY TO USE THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES OR RELATED SERVICES, THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SERVICES, OR FOR ANY INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS OBTAINED THROUGH THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES, OR OTHERWISE ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES, WHETHER BASED ON CONTRACT, TORT, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHERWISE, EVEN IF TEN CLUB OR ANY OF ITS SUPPLIERS HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF DAMAGES. BECAUSE SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. IF YOU ARE DISSATISFIED WITH ANY PORTION OF THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES, OR WITH ANY OF THESE TERMS OF USE, YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY IS TO DISCONTINUE USING THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES.
1996: Randall's Island I, Hartford
1998: MSG I, Hartford
2000: Jones Beach I
2003: Albany, MSG II, Mansfield II & III, Homdel
2004: Boston (VFC) I & II
2006: Albany, Hartford, Boston I and E. Rutherford I
2008: MSG I & II, Hartford, Mansfield II (saw BostonLou in the FRONT ROW!!) EV-NYC II
2010: Hartford
2013 Worcester II, Hartford
2016 Fenway I 2018 Wrigley II, Fenway II
I hope that this becomes a trend at certain shows. The crowd was brilliant! I probably ended up a row or two back of where I would have been (218XXX), but it was great for those who got close. I hope my # move to the coveted rows at some point!!!!
It's kinda funny that when a 10C member with a higher number complains about their seats, the lower numbered fans tell them "Be glad you got those tickets. If you don't like them, then cancel your membership."
Yet, when the rare time the lower numbers get seated back, they feel like they have a right to complain.
Well that's really hypocritical.
If you don't like the tickets you got, cancel your membership. Be lucky you got in because I'm sure there were tons of other fans who would've killed for your seats. No where in the 10C terms and conditions state that you are promised front row for EVERY show you attend.
If you have a problem with getting anything less, then cancel your membership because you obviously don't deserve to sit close anyway if you are more concered about the seats than the actual experience.
No kidding.
"If she don't love me no more, i know her sister will" Jimi Hendrix
It's kinda funny that when a 10C member with a higher number complains about their seats, the lower numbered fans tell them "Be glad you got those tickets. If you don't like them, then cancel your membership."
Yet, when the rare time the lower numbers get seated back, they feel like they have a right to complain.
Well that's really hypocritical.
Yeah, kind of like its funny when people w/ higher numbers complain about the people with lower numbers' complaining about what seats they get. Seems both side's biggest argument always seems to be 'doesn't matter where you sit, at least you're in the building'.
Its all hypocritical. Just stop complaining already and sit where you're told to sit. (Sit or stand. Or jump around. Or just nod your head. Or sing along. Or don't sing along.) Whatever you want. It's all good.
See I never complain about my seats, I sat way in the back at the Toledo VFC and still had a fucking blast. Did I care that I wasn't inthe first 5 rows? No.
And like the guy a few posts up showed, the 10C has the right to change their policy at anytime without notice. That's the way it is with just about any kind of membership.
Noblesville 6/03
Toledo 10/04
Grand Rapids 10/04
Grand Rapids 5/06
Cleveland 5/06
Cincinnati 6/06
*hopefully sometime before I die* Noblesville
Songs I'm hoping to hear live: Nothingman, In My Tree, Indifference, and Animal
I have an idea that I think would work. Someone may have already posted something similar, so excuse me if that is the case.
They should do it by seniority like they always do, except that for every show, they should take a very small number of the "local" tickets and put them in the front -- sort of like winning the lottery. That way, you don't piss anyone off -- the long-time people get their seniority, people with high numbers have the chance (albeit small) of winning the lottery and getting kick ass seats, and everyone is happy. Plus it wouldn' be difficult to take, say, 5 pairs of tickets and do this.
San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]
Not sure if anyone pointed this out, but they've reserved the rights to make changes to any policy without notice and you're only remedy is to QUIT THE CLUB... I doubt any of the long time members will...
how was my remedy to quit the 10C? All I said is that they made a change without alerting us, which is downright ignorant...
Not sure if anyone pointed this out, but they've reserved the rights to make changes to any policy without notice and you're only remedy is to QUIT THE CLUB... I doubt any of the long time members will...
That's a standard liability disclaimer, one that would almost certainly not hold up in the face of anything that was actually actionable in this case. They can change the terms and conditions of the club, they cannot sell something and then unilaterally change the terms of the sale, disclaimer or not.
As I said the other day, I thought it was a mistake. But concerts and the selling of concert tickets are big business and Pearl Jam is not exempt from the rules governing the practice of such business.
That's a standard liability disclaimer, one that would almost certainly not hold up in the face of anything that was actually actionable in this case. They can change the terms and conditions of the club, they cannot sell something and then unilaterally change the terms of the sale, disclaimer or not.
As I said the other day, I thought it was a mistake. But concerts and the selling of concert tickets are big business and Pearl Jam is not exempt from the rules governing the practice of such business.
I wouldn't go that far. Disclaimers are usually enforceable. This is not a contract of adhesion. You'd have a really hard time filing a claim against Pearl Jam, and even if you did, what are your damages? The $15 you paid for your membership? Hurt feelings? Good luck. I think the whole thing is sort of funny.
San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]
I wouldn't go that far. Disclaimers are usually enforceable. This is not a contract of adhesion. You'd have a really hard time filing a claim against Pearl Jam, and even if you did, what are your damages? The $15 you paid for your membership? Hurt feelings? Good luck. I think the whole thing is sort of funny.
First of all, I right away said the GR thing was a mistake and people shouldn't overreact. I only commented about the legal issues when people were saying they should junk the announced policy for the entire tour. Secondly, that disclaimer is extremely broad and the $15 club fee has nothing to do with tickets. The disclaimer would never hold up for the ticket sale considering the specific language used in the terms and conditions regarding seat position. Obviously nobody is suing, but the point needs to be made to people here that seniority is not magically vanishing during the tour after the tickets have already been sold under those rules.
And make no mistake, it's a much larger issue than simply the club fee because Pearl Jam has been selling out shows for years in part because of the fact that there are many fans who go to multiple shows. Clearly there are people who are buying more shows than they would if they were not guaranteed their seat positions. Pearl Jam has every right to conduct it's ticket sale however they like and if they wish to do away with seniority, they can easily do so. What they cannot do, however, is annouce a plan for seniority and then do away with it after people have spent hundreds of dollars or more on tickets. Not only would it be unethical, it would absolutely violate the terms and conditions and potentially be actionable. If it was an intentional switch, it would basically amount to fraud, no different than if your local appliance store pulls the old bait and switch.
First of all, I right away said the GR thing was a mistake and people shouldn't overreact. I only commented about the legal issues when people were saying they should junk the announced policy for the entire tour. Secondly, that disclaimer is extremely broad and the $15 club fee has nothing to do with tickets. The disclaimer would never hold up for the ticket sale considering the specific language used in the terms and conditions regarding seat position. Obviously nobody is suing, but the point needs to be made to people here that seniority is not magically vanishing during the tour after the tickets have already been sold under those rules.
And make no mistake, it's a much larger issue than simply the club fee because Pearl Jam has been selling out shows for years in part because of the fact that there are many fans who go to multiple shows. Clearly there are people who are buying more shows than they would if they were not guaranteed their seat positions. Pearl Jam has every right to conduct it's ticket sale however they like and if they wish to do away with seniority, they can easily do so. What they cannot do, however, is annouce a plan for seniority and then do away with it after people have spent hundreds of dollars or more on tickets. Not only would it be unethical, it would absolutely violate the terms and conditions and potentially be actionable. If it was an intentional switch, it would basically amount to fraud, no different than if your local appliance store pulls the old bait and switch.
Of course the disclaimer is extremely broad. Any disclaimer from ANYTHING you will ever sign will be extremely broad. Keeps them from being sued that way. I think this statement in their disclaimer frees them from all liabilty reguarding tickets.
"TEN CLUB AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS MAY MAKE IMPROVEMENTS AND/OR CHANGES IN THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES AT ANY TIME."
I would think presale tickets are a service and therefore can be changed whenever they want to according to this statement. BTW if any of you are planing to sue over your tickets please do us all a really huge favor and quit the 10c NOW!
Oh, and IMHO I think it was planned. It was very obvious to me that Ed was looking very hard at the fan club sections to see who was sitting where. Did anyone notice his expression during the line in Small Town "All these changes taken place"... This is also the only show out of the 4 I've been to this year that we got them in envelopes with our names and 10c #'s on them. Seems like a plan to me..
Honestly I knew they did something like that shortly after my husband and I arrived. We were asking another fan where the box office was to get our tickets and the first thing he did is whine about his tickets. This "fan" we met was really upset because he ALWAYS gets 5th row and now he was up on the side. I for one love to be on the side stage. I've been on the floor this year and it's hard to see when I'm 5'1" short. I wanted to call the Waaambulence. He looked like a pouting child and my husband later said he was surprised he didn't start crying. I think it's spoiled fan club members that cause this little seating "mix-up."
Be greatful that 10c sells us tickets at all. At least then we can at the very least be there to witness the magic.
The reason the main stream is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -George Carlin-
Of course the disclaimer is extremely broad. Any disclaimer from ANYTHING you will ever sign will be extremely broad. Keeps them from being sued that way. I think this statement in their disclaimer frees them from all liabilty reguarding tickets.
Well, what you think happens not to be right. But thanks for the legal opinion.
There are disclaimers on everything. If disclaimers like this were upheld, there would never be any lawsuits. The bottom line is that it is standard within consumer protection law that you cannot promise something to induce a sale and then not make good on the promise.
It clearly was a mistake and any thought otherwise is fantasy. For one thing, why would they pick Grand Rapids? If they were going to screw with people for one night (whether it's right or not), they would have picked a venue where they were playing two nights. Or in an area where they were playing a bunch of shows batched together like NJ or California. Any idiot knows that there just aren't that many people travelling to Grand Rapids. So they intentionally penalize people who might only see one or two shows? Ridiculous.
Second, on the last tour they didn't provide fan club tickets for the rollover nights. This tour they elected to, thereby insuring that for every show in the city the same fans were in front for multi-night stands. Again, why change the policy even further in favor of seniority if they were so against it? They could have just not sold 10C tix to the rollover shows again or there could be a different policy for the second night. But there's not because they want the seniority.
This is their policy. This fantasy-land idea that they wanted to screw people makes no sense. It is the policy they want. Not only do they want it but three years ago, they elected to extend from one night per tour to unlimited nights. Note I happen to think it should be limited to a reasonable number of shows per tour but it's not my policy, it's theirs. So again, do you think it's news to them that the same fans get the front rows?
Finally, if they are as you claim a) against seniority and b) able to change the policy at will then why did it immediately go back to seniority in Cleveland and again tonight in Detroit?
Of course the disclaimer is extremely broad. Any disclaimer from ANYTHING you will ever sign will be extremely broad. Keeps them from being sued that way. I think this statement in their disclaimer frees them from all liabilty reguarding tickets.
"TEN CLUB AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS MAY MAKE IMPROVEMENTS AND/OR CHANGES IN THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES AT ANY TIME."
I would think presale tickets are a service and therefore can be changed whenever they want to according to this statement. BTW if any of you are planing to sue over your tickets please do us all a really huge favor and quit the 10c NOW!
Oh, and IMHO I think it was planned. It was very obvious to me that Ed was looking very hard at the fan club sections to see who was sitting where. Did anyone notice his expression during the line in Small Town "All these changes taken place"... This is also the only show out of the 4 I've been to this year that we got them in envelopes with our names and 10c #'s on them. Seems like a plan to me..
Honestly I knew they did something like that shortly after my husband and I arrived. We were asking another fan where the box office was to get our tickets and the first thing he did is whine about his tickets. This "fan" we met was really upset because he ALWAYS gets 5th row and now he was up on the side. I for one love to be on the side stage. I've been on the floor this year and it's hard to see when I'm 5'1" short. I wanted to call the Waaambulence. He looked like a pouting child and my husband later said he was surprised he didn't start crying. I think it's spoiled fan club members that cause this little seating "mix-up."
Be greatful that 10c sells us tickets at all. At least then we can at the very least be there to witness the magic.
I said this on another PJ online message group, but I remember when we used to have to pick our 1 show per tour that we would buy tickets to via the TC, and if we wanted to go to any other shows, we would have to go through TM or whomever. I think that if the TC adopted a system like that, where you would be limited to a certain amount of TC shows per tour, it would eliminate the scenario where you have the same people going to 10, 20 shows per tour and taking up the first few rows each time. Maybe those people would stop taking it for granted, like the guy you mentioned in your post.
Otherwise, I don't mind the idea of the TC mixing things up...I think it's a great idea for every TC member to have kickass seats at one point or another to see our favorite band at their best. And I agree that everyone should be happy to see Pearl Jam live, no matter what seats they have.
On the other hand, as a long-time TC member (10+ yrs), who normally only gets to see a couple shows per tour at most, I would be pretty bummed if I got to my one concert that tour and they did another ticketing experiment a la Grand Rapids resulting in me sitting way far back.
Well, what you think happens not to be right. But thanks for the legal opinion.
There are disclaimers on everything. If disclaimers like this were upheld, there would never be any lawsuits. The bottom line is that it is standard within consumer protection law that you cannot promise something to induce a sale and then not make good on the promise.
It clearly was a mistake and any thought otherwise is fantasy. For one thing, why would they pick Grand Rapids? If they were going to screw with people for one night (whether it's right or not), they would have picked a venue where they were playing two nights. Or in an area where they were playing a bunch of shows batched together like NJ or California. Any idiot knows that there just aren't that many people travelling to Grand Rapids. So they intentionally penalize people who might only see one or two shows? Ridiculous.
Second, on the last tour they didn't provide fan club tickets for the rollover nights. This tour they elected to, thereby insuring that for every show in the city the same fans were in front for multi-night stands. Again, why change the policy even further in favor of seniority if they were so against it? They could have just not sold 10C tix to the rollover shows again or there could be a different policy for the second night. But there's not because they want the seniority.
This is their policy. This fantasy-land idea that they wanted to screw people makes no sense. It is the policy they want. Not only do they want it but three years ago, they elected to extend from one night per tour to unlimited nights. Note I happen to think it should be limited to a reasonable number of shows per tour but it's not my policy, it's theirs. So again, do you think it's news to them that the same fans get the front rows?
Finally, if they are as you claim a) against seniority and b) able to change the policy at will then why did it immediately go back to seniority in Cleveland and again tonight in Detroit?
Why Grand Rapids? because it was the first show to follow after the thread about Tim's Comments in Chicago. I don't think they wanted to screw people, but maybe give fans at the front of the floor a reason to be excited, and it worked pretty damn well.
She did not claim that 10 Club is against seniority, maybe they just experimented with the ticket distribution. Yes I know Tim has posted an apology about it saying it was a mix-up, but how do we know that is not just something to calm those who got pushed to the back or sides in an attempt to reduce the amount of bitchy emails they are sure to have received from those members who feel that their seats were taken away.
Yes I know Tim has posted an apology about it saying it was a mix-up, but how do we know that is not just something to calm those who got pushed to the back or sides in an attempt to reduce the amount of bitchy emails they are sure to have received from those members who feel that their seats were taken away.
Yes, the great ticket conspiracy of 2006.
You were wrong. It was a mistake. Deal with with it.
Plus, your logic is ridiculous. If they wanted to make this big point about seniority and it was done intentionally, why would they backtrack to calm people?
You were wrong. It was a mistake. Deal with with it.
Plus, your logic is ridiculous. If they wanted to make this big point about seniority and it was done intentionally, why would they backtrack to calm people?
Deal with it? I dealt with my 13th row seats in GR pretty well. What's with people being such dicks today?
Maybe it was a just a mistake, but it was a good one. And to answer your question about why would they backtrack if it was intentional, re-read my previous post.
Well I am 57,XXX and I got 109 row M. I traveled from Colorado so you can see why I was bummed not to get the seats my seniority gives me. I'm short too, so sitting farther back is never fun when you got tall people in front of you.
I was upset, not because others got my seat, but because I didn't get my seat. I've been to plenty of shows where seats where random club or no club seats at all, so it's not like those of us with the lower numbers get the good seats all the time.
I think the thing really bothered me was that you are told it will be by seniority when you buy the tix and you show up expecting it. If they said random, I would have no complaints. The seats I got were fine, they just weren't the fan club seats I expected. The show was amazing and that made up for it. Someone made a comment on one post that us lower numbers are old so we don't get into as much. Total crap, especially since I'm 25. I sat around 300,XXXs and 200,000s that night and they spent the whole show leaving to buy beer til it was out.
I'm sure someone will complain about what I've said, but if it was you, you would have been disappointed in your seats too. So let us bitch about our seats. That's all we're doing; not about you getting good ones. At least the show was amazing! The WHOLE crowd was intense for the most part. And I'm looking forward to more....
Comments
Loved it
Yet, when the rare time the lower numbers get seated back, they feel like they have a right to complain.
Well that's really hypocritical.
If you don't like the tickets you got, cancel your membership. Be lucky you got in because I'm sure there were tons of other fans who would've killed for your seats. No where in the 10C terms and conditions state that you are promised front row for EVERY show you attend.
If you have a problem with getting anything less, then cancel your membership because you obviously don't deserve to sit close anyway if you are more concered about the seats than the actual experience.
Toledo 10/04
Grand Rapids 10/04
Grand Rapids 5/06
Cleveland 5/06
Cincinnati 6/06
*hopefully sometime before I die* Noblesville
Songs I'm hoping to hear live: Nothingman, In My Tree, Indifference, and Animal
Great points above....
First of all I think it is cool that this happened, weather it is a mistake or was a decision by the band.. the only people I feel sorry for were the ones who had a low # and this was their only show this tour, which I am sure is a very small minority. Since three other shows were very close, I am sure those "super fans" with the low #'s were not only attending one of those shows. Also if this was a decision by the band, are you surprised? Fighting for the little guy is one of the things most of us love about the band. For the record, and before anyone starts complaining about me.. I am a 184XX number and a highly devoted fan who never realized there was a 10C until 98 or whenever it was that I joined. I will also admit my bias as I would love 1st 5 rows just once in my life then I would also happily live with my normal seats or even worse.
On to the purpose of the thread, I think a cool idea for this type of thing is for the band to take every 2nd show in the same town and do a random dispersion for that show. That way at the 1st show, in lets say Boston, Senority would rule but for that second show.. all the #'s would get tossed into a hat and pulled for first row on back. It would be publicly stated that senority would fly out the window for the second show so everyone would know what they were getting into. Let me know what you all think of that idea.
I had section 101, row B. When I walked towards my seat I could have cried. It was a beautiful view. Finally something for the younger diehards.
all4
problem is, PJ changed the way they were assigning tickets mid-tour, after tickets were bought and promises were made in writing.
It isn't a huge deal to me, and I can see both sides of the issue. I'm glad people with higher numbers got to experience things up close. I don't really feel bad for the low number people who have been in the front row for 56 shows and just got bumped to the wing for one.
I do, however, think people have a point when they complain that they didn't get what they signed up for. When you bought the tickets, it said plain as day, "higher seniority gets you closer to the stage." That obviously wasn't true in Grand Rapids, and if it was done on purpose, it kind of is a little crappy. just a little.
for the least they could possibly do
Let me just say that if I would have been the guy in farthest back upper corner behind a pillar, I would have been happy just to have been there for this show!
yours and every other statement like it with the same argument about the seniority policy "begs the question"...
maybe you shouldn't being asking yourselves "why me?", but "why?"...
seems to me like the band is sending a pretty clear message....don't you think?
Never have
I had 10c tickets in London, ON and I was on the sides. Got Hamilton and Cleveland with ticketmaster... I can't say I don't care where I seat, but I don't see the big deal.
Not sure if anyone pointed this out, but they've reserved the rights to make changes to any policy without notice and you're only remedy is to QUIT THE CLUB... I doubt any of the long time members will...
Cut and paste from the ten club site:
LIABILITY DISCLAIMER
THE INFORMATION, PRODUCTS, AND SERVICES INCLUDED IN OR AVAILABLE THROUGH THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES MAY INCLUDE INACCURACIES OR TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS. CHANGES ARE PERIODICALLY MADE TO THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES AND TO THE INFORMATION THEREIN. TEN CLUB AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS MAY MAKE IMPROVEMENTS AND/OR CHANGES IN THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES AT ANY TIME. ADVICE RECEIVED VIA THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON FOR PERSONAL, MEDICAL, LEGAL OR FINANCIAL DECISIONS AND YOU SHOULD CONSULT AN APPROPRIATE PROFESSIONAL FOR SPECIFIC ADVICE TAILORED TO YOUR SITUATION.
TEN CLUB AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE SUITABILITY, RELIABILITY, AVAILABILITY, TIMELINESS, LACK OF VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL COMPONENTS AND ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS CONTAINED WITHIN THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES FOR ANY PURPOSE. ALL SUCH INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. TEN CLUB AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS HEREBY DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS WITH REGARD TO THIS INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS, INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, WORKMANLIKE EFFORT, TITLE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT.
YOU SPECIFICALLY AGREE THAT TEN CLUB SHALL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA, ANY MATERIAL OR DATA SENT OR RECEIVED OR NOT SENT OR RECEIVED, OR ANY TRANSACTIONS ENTERED INTO THROUGH A TEN CLUB SITE/SERVICE. YOU SPECIFICALLY AGREE THAT TEN CLUB IS NOT RESPONSIBLE OR LIABLE FOR ANY THREATENING, DEFAMATORY, OBSCENE, OFFENSIVE OR ILLEGAL CONTENT OR CONDUCT OF ANY OTHER PARTY OR ANY INFRINGEMENT OF ANOTHER'S RIGHTS, INCLUDING INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS. YOU SPECIFICALLY AGREE THAT TEN CLUB IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY CONTENT SENT USING AND/OR INCLUDED IN A TEN CLUB SITE/SERVICE BY ANY THIRD PARTY.
IN NO EVENT SHALL TEN CLUB AND/OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, PUNITIVE, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF USE, DATA OR PROFITS, ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES, WITH THE DELAY OR INABILITY TO USE THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES OR RELATED SERVICES, THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SERVICES, OR FOR ANY INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS OBTAINED THROUGH THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES, OR OTHERWISE ARISING OUT OF THE USE OF THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES, WHETHER BASED ON CONTRACT, TORT, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY OR OTHERWISE, EVEN IF TEN CLUB OR ANY OF ITS SUPPLIERS HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF DAMAGES. BECAUSE SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. IF YOU ARE DISSATISFIED WITH ANY PORTION OF THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES, OR WITH ANY OF THESE TERMS OF USE, YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY IS TO DISCONTINUE USING THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES.
1998: MSG I, Hartford
2000: Jones Beach I
2003: Albany, MSG II, Mansfield II & III, Homdel
2004: Boston (VFC) I & II
2006: Albany, Hartford, Boston I and E. Rutherford I
2008: MSG I & II, Hartford, Mansfield II (saw BostonLou in the FRONT ROW!!) EV-NYC II
2010: Hartford
2013 Worcester II, Hartford
2016 Fenway I
2018 Wrigley II, Fenway II
Great Show!
No kidding.
Yeah, kind of like its funny when people w/ higher numbers complain about the people with lower numbers' complaining about what seats they get. Seems both side's biggest argument always seems to be 'doesn't matter where you sit, at least you're in the building'.
Its all hypocritical. Just stop complaining already and sit where you're told to sit. (Sit or stand. Or jump around. Or just nod your head. Or sing along. Or don't sing along.) Whatever you want. It's all good.
You are U, who you are.
And like the guy a few posts up showed, the 10C has the right to change their policy at anytime without notice. That's the way it is with just about any kind of membership.
Toledo 10/04
Grand Rapids 10/04
Grand Rapids 5/06
Cleveland 5/06
Cincinnati 6/06
*hopefully sometime before I die* Noblesville
Songs I'm hoping to hear live: Nothingman, In My Tree, Indifference, and Animal
it's obvious
the guys got bored on their day off - snooped through Tim's tickle trunk and found the tickets
decided to play a little ticket poker - Matt raising Stone a front row with a side stage, throw in a 10th row for a Mike side
then they realized "SHIT" we've got to put these things back in the envelopes
OOPS!!
why do you think they played such a rockin' ass show - GUILT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm a number that doesn't count
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
the nothing ventured - the nothing feigned
They should do it by seniority like they always do, except that for every show, they should take a very small number of the "local" tickets and put them in the front -- sort of like winning the lottery. That way, you don't piss anyone off -- the long-time people get their seniority, people with high numbers have the chance (albeit small) of winning the lottery and getting kick ass seats, and everyone is happy. Plus it wouldn' be difficult to take, say, 5 pairs of tickets and do this.
all4
That's a standard liability disclaimer, one that would almost certainly not hold up in the face of anything that was actually actionable in this case. They can change the terms and conditions of the club, they cannot sell something and then unilaterally change the terms of the sale, disclaimer or not.
As I said the other day, I thought it was a mistake. But concerts and the selling of concert tickets are big business and Pearl Jam is not exempt from the rules governing the practice of such business.
I wouldn't go that far. Disclaimers are usually enforceable. This is not a contract of adhesion. You'd have a really hard time filing a claim against Pearl Jam, and even if you did, what are your damages? The $15 you paid for your membership? Hurt feelings? Good luck. I think the whole thing is sort of funny.
First of all, I right away said the GR thing was a mistake and people shouldn't overreact. I only commented about the legal issues when people were saying they should junk the announced policy for the entire tour. Secondly, that disclaimer is extremely broad and the $15 club fee has nothing to do with tickets. The disclaimer would never hold up for the ticket sale considering the specific language used in the terms and conditions regarding seat position. Obviously nobody is suing, but the point needs to be made to people here that seniority is not magically vanishing during the tour after the tickets have already been sold under those rules.
And make no mistake, it's a much larger issue than simply the club fee because Pearl Jam has been selling out shows for years in part because of the fact that there are many fans who go to multiple shows. Clearly there are people who are buying more shows than they would if they were not guaranteed their seat positions. Pearl Jam has every right to conduct it's ticket sale however they like and if they wish to do away with seniority, they can easily do so. What they cannot do, however, is annouce a plan for seniority and then do away with it after people have spent hundreds of dollars or more on tickets. Not only would it be unethical, it would absolutely violate the terms and conditions and potentially be actionable. If it was an intentional switch, it would basically amount to fraud, no different than if your local appliance store pulls the old bait and switch.
Of course the disclaimer is extremely broad. Any disclaimer from ANYTHING you will ever sign will be extremely broad. Keeps them from being sued that way. I think this statement in their disclaimer frees them from all liabilty reguarding tickets.
"TEN CLUB AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS MAY MAKE IMPROVEMENTS AND/OR CHANGES IN THE TEN CLUB SITES/SERVICES AT ANY TIME."
I would think presale tickets are a service and therefore can be changed whenever they want to according to this statement. BTW if any of you are planing to sue over your tickets please do us all a really huge favor and quit the 10c NOW!
Oh, and IMHO I think it was planned. It was very obvious to me that Ed was looking very hard at the fan club sections to see who was sitting where. Did anyone notice his expression during the line in Small Town "All these changes taken place"... This is also the only show out of the 4 I've been to this year that we got them in envelopes with our names and 10c #'s on them. Seems like a plan to me..
Honestly I knew they did something like that shortly after my husband and I arrived. We were asking another fan where the box office was to get our tickets and the first thing he did is whine about his tickets. This "fan" we met was really upset because he ALWAYS gets 5th row and now he was up on the side. I for one love to be on the side stage. I've been on the floor this year and it's hard to see when I'm 5'1" short. I wanted to call the Waaambulence. He looked like a pouting child and my husband later said he was surprised he didn't start crying. I think it's spoiled fan club members that cause this little seating "mix-up."
Be greatful that 10c sells us tickets at all. At least then we can at the very least be there to witness the magic.
Well, what you think happens not to be right. But thanks for the legal opinion.
There are disclaimers on everything. If disclaimers like this were upheld, there would never be any lawsuits. The bottom line is that it is standard within consumer protection law that you cannot promise something to induce a sale and then not make good on the promise.
It clearly was a mistake and any thought otherwise is fantasy. For one thing, why would they pick Grand Rapids? If they were going to screw with people for one night (whether it's right or not), they would have picked a venue where they were playing two nights. Or in an area where they were playing a bunch of shows batched together like NJ or California. Any idiot knows that there just aren't that many people travelling to Grand Rapids. So they intentionally penalize people who might only see one or two shows? Ridiculous.
Second, on the last tour they didn't provide fan club tickets for the rollover nights. This tour they elected to, thereby insuring that for every show in the city the same fans were in front for multi-night stands. Again, why change the policy even further in favor of seniority if they were so against it? They could have just not sold 10C tix to the rollover shows again or there could be a different policy for the second night. But there's not because they want the seniority.
This is their policy. This fantasy-land idea that they wanted to screw people makes no sense. It is the policy they want. Not only do they want it but three years ago, they elected to extend from one night per tour to unlimited nights. Note I happen to think it should be limited to a reasonable number of shows per tour but it's not my policy, it's theirs. So again, do you think it's news to them that the same fans get the front rows?
Finally, if they are as you claim a) against seniority and b) able to change the policy at will then why did it immediately go back to seniority in Cleveland and again tonight in Detroit?
I said this on another PJ online message group, but I remember when we used to have to pick our 1 show per tour that we would buy tickets to via the TC, and if we wanted to go to any other shows, we would have to go through TM or whomever. I think that if the TC adopted a system like that, where you would be limited to a certain amount of TC shows per tour, it would eliminate the scenario where you have the same people going to 10, 20 shows per tour and taking up the first few rows each time. Maybe those people would stop taking it for granted, like the guy you mentioned in your post.
Otherwise, I don't mind the idea of the TC mixing things up...I think it's a great idea for every TC member to have kickass seats at one point or another to see our favorite band at their best. And I agree that everyone should be happy to see Pearl Jam live, no matter what seats they have.
On the other hand, as a long-time TC member (10+ yrs), who normally only gets to see a couple shows per tour at most, I would be pretty bummed if I got to my one concert that tour and they did another ticketing experiment a la Grand Rapids resulting in me sitting way far back.
Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth.
Why Grand Rapids? because it was the first show to follow after the thread about Tim's Comments in Chicago. I don't think they wanted to screw people, but maybe give fans at the front of the floor a reason to be excited, and it worked pretty damn well.
She did not claim that 10 Club is against seniority, maybe they just experimented with the ticket distribution. Yes I know Tim has posted an apology about it saying it was a mix-up, but how do we know that is not just something to calm those who got pushed to the back or sides in an attempt to reduce the amount of bitchy emails they are sure to have received from those members who feel that their seats were taken away.
Yes, the great ticket conspiracy of 2006.
You were wrong. It was a mistake. Deal with with it.
Plus, your logic is ridiculous. If they wanted to make this big point about seniority and it was done intentionally, why would they backtrack to calm people?
Deal with it? I dealt with my 13th row seats in GR pretty well. What's with people being such dicks today?
Maybe it was a just a mistake, but it was a good one. And to answer your question about why would they backtrack if it was intentional, re-read my previous post.
I was upset, not because others got my seat, but because I didn't get my seat. I've been to plenty of shows where seats where random club or no club seats at all, so it's not like those of us with the lower numbers get the good seats all the time.
I think the thing really bothered me was that you are told it will be by seniority when you buy the tix and you show up expecting it. If they said random, I would have no complaints. The seats I got were fine, they just weren't the fan club seats I expected. The show was amazing and that made up for it. Someone made a comment on one post that us lower numbers are old so we don't get into as much. Total crap, especially since I'm 25. I sat around 300,XXXs and 200,000s that night and they spent the whole show leaving to buy beer til it was out.
I'm sure someone will complain about what I've said, but if it was you, you would have been disappointed in your seats too. So let us bitch about our seats. That's all we're doing; not about you getting good ones. At least the show was amazing! The WHOLE crowd was intense for the most part. And I'm looking forward to more....