If there were a God the world and people would be a hell of a lot better than they are, and there would be no mosquitoes. People who think that God created us and the world and everything, they must not have a very good opinion of him!
And in my opinion, people who judge God by the world and our mortal life are missing the much bigger picture.
Dude, I was kidding. I don't even believe in God.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Haven't read through this entire thread because the OP's main point was pretty ridiculous.
Of course there is no god but using Zimmerman to prove that is like using mile marker 39 on the New Jersey parkway as evidence that unicorns aren't real.
Haven't read through this entire thread because the OP's main point was pretty ridiculous.
Of course there is no god but using Zimmerman to prove that is like using mile marker 39 on the New Jersey parkway as evidence that unicorns aren't real.
Lol. The thread got a bit better than that later, FYI. I didn't even realize that's what the OP was about! :P
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Declaring there is no god is as misguided (to me, anyway) as claiming that there IS one.
How long must it take for us to realize we don't know shit when it comes to this? We may believe, or believe we know, but none of us knows.
I struggle with the topic of religion.
The universe is much too profound to think we are at the very center of it. We are definitely a miracle, but I don't think it was a holy one at the hands of an omnipresent, superpowered entity that got bored one day and decided to make human beings which would worship him.
It's just as likely that 'God' created whales in his image and we are just a species of animal on this planet like squirrels, bears, birds and beetles.
The idea of God and Heaven is very appealing though and as a kid, I eagerly bought in; however, things changed for me as I began to question things that could never be answered to any degree of satisfaction. I may have a 'moment' where I recapture my faith, but this 'moment' would need to be profound (basically a high five from God).
Regardless, as long as one is peaceful, whatever gets them through their day is okay with me.
Nice post, Thirty. While I wouldn't use the word "miracle" (though you were clear in what you meant), we are a pretty awesome result of physics and chemistry plus time. Not just us, but all life.
With respect to life, the awesomeness of it and all other plants and animals, what I think most people take for granted is that in the scale of it all there is no real difference in the majesty of human beings vs the majesty of single cell organisms. Human evolution is an astounding fact and very well understood at this point but when viewed through the lens of deep time it doesn't really amount to jack shit. The most amazing thing about all life is that it happened, not that we happened. I feel like religious people especially fail to recognize that.
"Declaring there is no god is as misguided (to me, anyway) as claiming that there IS one." This just isn't a very well thought out argument, Hedonist, and I hardly believe you actually agree with it. This type of thinking means that you have to give equal weight to the existence or non-existence of literally everything anyone has ever conceived of. That's clearly absurd. I say that there is no god in the same way that there is no Zeus or Spiderman. Since there is equal evidence for all of them (which is zero evidence) would you honestly consider it legitimate to believe that comic book characters are more than a work of fiction? Of course you wouldn't, but that is the argument you're making.
Nice post, Thirty. While I wouldn't use the word "miracle" (though you were clear in what you meant), we are a pretty awesome result of physics and chemistry plus time. Not just us, but all life.
With respect to life, the awesomeness of it and all other plants and animals, what I think most people take for granted is that in the scale of it all there is no real difference in the majesty of human beings vs the majesty of single cell organisms. Human evolution is an astounding fact and very well understood at this point but when viewed through the lens of deep time it doesn't really amount to jack shit. The most amazing thing about all life is that it happened, not that we happened. I feel like religious people especially fail to recognize that.
"Declaring there is no god is as misguided (to me, anyway) as claiming that there IS one." This just isn't a very well thought out argument, Hedonist, and I hardly believe you actually agree with it. This type of thinking means that you have to give equal weight to the existence or non-existence of literally everything anyone has ever conceived of. That's clearly absurd. I say that there is no god in the same way that there is no Zeus or Spiderman. Since there is equal evidence for all of them (which is zero evidence) would you honestly consider it legitimate to believe that comic book characters are more than a work of fiction? Of course you wouldn't, but that is the argument you're making.
You can infer what you like from my post; I know what I meant, and have given much thought to this topic. People will believe - or not - what they choose, maybe what they need.
I'm saying I don't know. I don't think anyone can KNOW either way. Is that really so absurd?
Nice post, Thirty. While I wouldn't use the word "miracle" (though you were clear in what you meant), we are a pretty awesome result of physics and chemistry plus time. Not just us, but all life.
With respect to life, the awesomeness of it and all other plants and animals, what I think most people take for granted is that in the scale of it all there is no real difference in the majesty of human beings vs the majesty of single cell organisms. Human evolution is an astounding fact and very well understood at this point but when viewed through the lens of deep time it doesn't really amount to jack shit. The most amazing thing about all life is that it happened, not that we happened. I feel like religious people especially fail to recognize that.
"Declaring there is no god is as misguided (to me, anyway) as claiming that there IS one." This just isn't a very well thought out argument, Hedonist, and I hardly believe you actually agree with it. This type of thinking means that you have to give equal weight to the existence or non-existence of literally everything anyone has ever conceived of. That's clearly absurd. I say that there is no god in the same way that there is no Zeus or Spiderman. Since there is equal evidence for all of them (which is zero evidence) would you honestly consider it legitimate to believe that comic book characters are more than a work of fiction? Of course you wouldn't, but that is the argument you're making.
You can infer what you like from my post; I know what I meant, and have given much thought to this topic. People will believe - or not - what they choose, maybe what they need.
I'm saying I don't know. I don't think anyone can KNOW either way. Is that really so absurd?
I have to admit that this "no one can KNOW either way" thing is really annoying (no offense). Since God is a man-made construct - a fantasy used for control, politics, and dealing with the human fear of death and uncertainty (denial, IMO) - to say that no one can know if God doesn't exist DOES seems like an absurdity to me *(since you asked). It's like saying I can't KNOW that the tooth fairy doesn't exist. Making something up and then telling people it's arrogant to say they know that made up thing doesn't exist seems ludicrous.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
goly gee 8-} anyone ever just stuck a handfulla tacks up their rear for the hell of it?... that is the equivalent of the torturous material here
it's like sleeping in a cozy fluffy bed when all of a sudden someone throws a wolverine on pcp through the bedroom window or perpetually being out of our minds on lsd... everlastingly or having peanut butter & honey sandwiches but the honey isn't made yet so you're eating peanut butter & honey bees sandwiches
goly gee 8-} anyone ever just stuck a handfulla tacks up their rear for the hell of it?... that is the equivalent of the torturous material here
it's like sleeping in a cozy fluffy bed when all of a sudden someone throws a wolverine on pcp through the bedroom window or perpetually being out of our minds on lsd... everlastingly or having peanut butter & honey sandwiches but the honey isn't made yet so you're eating peanut butter & honey bees sandwiches
You can infer what you like from my post; I know what I meant, and have given much thought to this topic. People will believe - or not - what they choose, maybe what they need.
I'm saying I don't know. I don't think anyone can KNOW either way. Is that really so absurd?
I have to admit that this "no one can KNOW either way" thing is really annoying (no offense). Since God is a man-made construct - a fantasy used for control, politics, and dealing with the human fear of death and uncertainty (denial, IMO) - to say that no one can know if God doesn't exist DOES seems like an absurdity to me *(since you asked). It's like saying I can't KNOW that the tooth fairy doesn't exist. Making something up and then telling people it's arrogant to say they know that made up thing doesn't exist seems ludicrous.
I'm pretty sure I said misguided, not arrogant.
To reiterate my point, I don't profess to know either way.
Someone else does or believes they do, either way?
You can infer what you like from my post; I know what I meant, and have given much thought to this topic. People will believe - or not - what they choose, maybe what they need.
I'm saying I don't know. I don't think anyone can KNOW either way. Is that really so absurd?
I have to admit that this "no one can KNOW either way" thing is really annoying (no offense). Since God is a man-made construct - a fantasy used for control, politics, and dealing with the human fear of death and uncertainty (denial, IMO) - to say that no one can know if God doesn't exist DOES seems like an absurdity to me *(since you asked). It's like saying I can't KNOW that the tooth fairy doesn't exist. Making something up and then telling people it's arrogant to say they know that made up thing doesn't exist seems ludicrous.
I'm pretty sure I said misguided, not arrogant.
To reiterate my point, I don't profess to know either way.
Someone else does or believes they do, either way?
Fine by me. No ruffled feathers here!
Sorry, I didn't mean to say that you said anyone was arrogant. I was talking generally.
No one here is ruffling my feathers (that's a very rare thing for me!), but religion in general definitely does that to me, for which I offer no apologies. Religion really pisses me off.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I have to admit that this "no one can KNOW either way" thing is really annoying (no offense). Since God is a man-made construct - a fantasy used for control, politics, and dealing with the human fear of death and uncertainty (denial, IMO) - to say that no one can know if God doesn't exist DOES seems like an absurdity to me *(since you asked). It's like saying I can't KNOW that the tooth fairy doesn't exist. Making something up and then telling people it's arrogant to say they know that made up thing doesn't exist seems ludicrous.
Do you think that there are not worlds or dimensions or realms that we have no idea about? Do you think that these things are impossible? Do you think that they are man-made just because we don't know about them? Do you think its a good idea to give that much credence to our own feeble, juvenile-in-the-scheme-of-things, laughable, extremely-limited-beyond-measure, human brains? In light of how limited in capacity our brains are, I believe a little humility in and of itself would take us closer to a place of understanding more than anything
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Do you think that there are not worlds or dimensions or realms that we have no idea about? Do you think that these things are impossible? Do you think that they are man-made just because we don't know about them? Do you think its a good idea to give that much credence to our own feeble, juvenile-in-the-scheme-of-things, laughable, extremely-limited-beyond-measure, human brains? In light of how limited in capacity our brains are, I believe a little humility in and of itself would take us closer to a place of understanding more than anything
I have to admit that this "no one can KNOW either way" thing is really annoying (no offense). Since God is a man-made construct - a fantasy used for control, politics, and dealing with the human fear of death and uncertainty (denial, IMO) - to say that no one can know if God doesn't exist DOES seems like an absurdity to me *(since you asked). It's like saying I can't KNOW that the tooth fairy doesn't exist. Making something up and then telling people it's arrogant to say they know that made up thing doesn't exist seems ludicrous.
How do you know that God is man-made?
Because man made him up. What do you mean? How do you figure the entire concept of God wasn't man-made? What, some voice from the sky actually spoke to someone and burned bushes and shit?
I totally believe that things we don't know about are possible. Other dimensions, all those crazy theories that physicists come up with. I don't believe in God. I don't disbelieve in all things unknown. But those kinds of things aren't imagined out of thin air and completely reliant on fear of the unknown, completely uninformed ways of explaining the unknown, and nurtured by power mongers and insane people.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
whatever man has written down in the many bibles & other religious books has nothing to do with god. you can not prove man invented god as i can not prove to you that god exists. you are missing the big picture. religion is man made, god is not. you may try & take this in just a bit.
creation itself is god, this is my belief right here. time is god. this means we are surrounded by god. evil & good are both one god the same, ruthless & pleasant, it is the way it is, a massive storm. please remove the standard heaven in the clouds & hell under ground on fire from the picture.
sun is god moon is god ocean is god dirt is god air is god fruit is god green beans are god war is god birth is god actions good or bad are god rocks are god we each are god
alot of people disrespect themselves & others as they slip up or are not enlightened at all
many think god must save the starving children. god must not exist because the torture remains. god is all of this. each soul must rise up & become the best they can be.
so stones are formed over billions of years miles & miles beneath the earth's surface & forming themselves in their conditions. it takes time, time is what? can i prove any of this? nope.
just some thoughts on this fine ass saturday morning, beats picking my nose
I feel very confident that I am not missing the big picture, lol. I am fully aware of the concept of God as not being related to the bible or whatever else. That concept of God is still a man-made concept. Where else do you think came from if not from the minds of people?? Since there is literally NO evidence of God in any form whatsoever, then it would be impossible for the idea of God to come from anywhere other than people's imaginations. Calling everything on Earth God is a complete cop out. You can't just point at something and say, "that's god" and make it so. God can't just be a random opinion. God in any form has a definition. God has to be something particular. You can just say that nature is God. All you're doing there is changing the meanings of words, not making any argument towards the existence of God. In other words, doing that is delusional thinking.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I feel very confident that I am not missing the big picture, lol. I am fully aware of the concept of God as not being related to the bible or whatever else. That concept of God is still a man-made concept. Where else do you think came from if not from the minds of people?? Since there is literally NO evidence of God in any form whatsoever, then it would be impossible for the idea of God to come from anywhere other than people's imaginations. Calling everything on Earth God is a complete cop out. You can't just point at something and say, "that's god" and make it so. God can't just be a random opinion. God in any form has a definition. God has to be something particular. You can just say that nature is God. All you're doing there is changing the meanings of words, not making any argument towards the existence of God. In other words, doing that is delusional thinking.
Yeah it makes sense that all the concepts of God are human made. What exactly created the universe, holds it together, and created in us humans a sense of spirituality and soul is undefinable... or maybe is God but I wouldn't assume to know what that mystery exactly is all about.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
..... I totally believe that things we don't know about are possible. Other dimensions, all those crazy theories that physicists come up with. I don't believe in God. I don't disbelieve in all things unknown. But those kinds of things aren't imagined out of thin air and completely reliant on fear of the unknown, completely uninformed ways of explaining the unknown, and nurtured by power mongers and insane people.
I haven't read all of the thread, I'll admit this. So I'll just ask you outright....it seems that you have done some studying or research into the origins of man's concept of God through history. Have you done research or taken any courses in theology? I'm not saying that one has to have a degree or or done coursework in theology, or even read a book on the subject matter in order to form an opinion on the concept of man's belief in God and its development through history, but I am just curious, and I am asking sincerely, not sarcastically.
You seem to be very confident in your assertion that God is make believe, so I'm led to believe you have delved into the subject quiet hardily in order to form such a hardy opinion, and additionally I am interested in how you arrived at your conclusions. If it's just off-the-cuff thoughts saying "there's no god cuz it doesn't make sense and because there's no sky voice and and it's just because of fear and crazy people" then that's another thing.
There have been many many great minds who tore the frig out of this study of God throughout history. My favorite theologian is St. Augustine who is cool as fuck. I also think Eddie has quoted him about 10 times in his lyrics...not direct quotes but a repeat of the concepts Augustine has come up with.
.St. Augustine didn't believe in God at all. He was bad boy Then he tore into it and kinda changed his mind. Some do, some don't. I'm not trying to convince anyone either way.
But I am just wondering......., is it only because there isn't a God before you saying "I am Him" that you are instead saying "of course it's make believe"? And if not, then I would be very interested in what you know. Not to try to disprove it, but just for you to air it out
Comments
2010 WATCH IT GO TO FIRE!!
Kinda wish they'd superimposed the bleached-blond version of Ed though
2010 WATCH IT GO TO FIRE!!
Of course there is no god but using Zimmerman to prove that is like using mile marker 39 on the New Jersey parkway as evidence that unicorns aren't real.
With respect to life, the awesomeness of it and all other plants and animals, what I think most people take for granted is that in the scale of it all there is no real difference in the majesty of human beings vs the majesty of single cell organisms. Human evolution is an astounding fact and very well understood at this point but when viewed through the lens of deep time it doesn't really amount to jack shit. The most amazing thing about all life is that it happened, not that we happened. I feel like religious people especially fail to recognize that.
"Declaring there is no god is as misguided (to me, anyway) as claiming that there IS one." This just isn't a very well thought out argument, Hedonist, and I hardly believe you actually agree with it. This type of thinking means that you have to give equal weight to the existence or non-existence of literally everything anyone has ever conceived of. That's clearly absurd. I say that there is no god in the same way that there is no Zeus or Spiderman. Since there is equal evidence for all of them (which is zero evidence) would you honestly consider it legitimate to believe that comic book characters are more than a work of fiction? Of course you wouldn't, but that is the argument you're making.
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
I'm saying I don't know. I don't think anyone can KNOW either way. Is that really so absurd?
it's like sleeping in a cozy fluffy bed when all of a sudden someone throws a wolverine on pcp through the bedroom window
or
perpetually being out of our minds on lsd... everlastingly
or
having peanut butter & honey sandwiches but the honey isn't made yet so you're eating peanut butter & honey bees sandwiches
it usually hurts
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I'm......confused.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
To reiterate my point, I don't profess to know either way.
Someone else does or believes they do, either way?
Fine by me. No ruffled feathers here!
No one here is ruffling my feathers (that's a very rare thing for me!), but religion in general definitely does that to me, for which I offer no apologies. Religion really pisses me off.
I totally believe that things we don't know about are possible. Other dimensions, all those crazy theories that physicists come up with. I don't believe in God. I don't disbelieve in all things unknown. But those kinds of things aren't imagined out of thin air and completely reliant on fear of the unknown, completely uninformed ways of explaining the unknown, and nurtured by power mongers and insane people.
creation itself is god, this is my belief right here. time is god. this means we are surrounded by god. evil & good are both one god the same, ruthless & pleasant, it is the way it is, a massive storm. please remove the standard heaven in the clouds & hell under ground on fire from the picture.
sun is god
moon is god
ocean is god
dirt is god
air is god
fruit is god
green beans are god
war is god
birth is god
actions good or bad are god
rocks are god
we each are god
alot of people disrespect themselves & others as they slip up or are not enlightened at all
many think god must save the starving children. god must not exist because the torture remains. god is all of this. each soul must rise up & become the best they can be.
so stones are formed over billions of years miles & miles beneath the earth's surface & forming themselves in their conditions. it takes time, time is what? can i prove any of this? nope.
just some thoughts on this fine ass saturday morning, beats picking my nose
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I pray the green beans my soul to keep
-Emo Phillips
the universes, all of them, stars, all of it... time, mass & block holes are on earth? these things are not on the earth. god is creation
time
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
You seem to be very confident in your assertion that God is make believe, so I'm led to believe you have delved into the subject quiet hardily in order to form such a hardy opinion, and additionally I am interested in how you arrived at your conclusions. If it's just off-the-cuff thoughts saying "there's no god cuz it doesn't make sense and because there's no sky voice and and it's just because of fear and crazy people" then that's another thing.
There have been many many great minds who tore the frig out of this study of God throughout history. My favorite theologian is St. Augustine who is cool as fuck. I also think Eddie has quoted him about 10 times in his lyrics...not direct quotes but a repeat of the concepts Augustine has come up with.
.St. Augustine didn't believe in God at all. He was bad boy Then he tore into it and kinda changed his mind. Some do, some don't. I'm not trying to convince anyone either way.
But I am just wondering......., is it only because there isn't a God before you saying "I am Him" that you are instead saying "of course it's make believe"? And if not, then I would be very interested in what you know. Not to try to disprove it, but just for you to air it out