Israel Approves More Illegal Settlements

ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 19,604
edited December 2013 in A Moving Train
Business as usual in the Apartheid West bank. Good to see that ethnic cleansing is alive and well in the World, and supported by American tax dollars:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ma ... -west-bank

Israel to approve four unauthorised West Bank settler outposts

Legalisation, which comes amid rise in attacks on Palestinians and their property, could frustrate US peace efforts

Harriet Sherwood in Jerusalem
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 16 May 2013


The Israeli government is to retroactively legalise four unauthorised settler outposts in the West Bank in a move likely to exasperate the US secretary of state, John Kerry, before his fourth visit to Jerusalem next week in a drive to restart peace talks.

The measure comes amid a heightened spate of attacks on Palestinians and their property after the killing of a settler in the West Bank last month. The so-called price tag attacks prompted an emergency meeting of government ministers and security officials on Thursday to discuss tougher measures in dealing with settler extremism, according to Israeli media reports.

The government said it had taken steps to confer legal status on the four outposts, which have been slated for demolition since 2003, in response to a petition submitted to the supreme court by the Israeli settlement monitoring organisation Peace Now.

Officials draw a distinction between about 120 West Bank settlements whose construction was approved by the government, and dozens of small unauthorised hilltop outposts, invariably populated by young, hardline ideologically and religiously driven settlers. Under international law, all settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem are illegal.

The legalisation move is likely to increase already widespread pessimism over the chances of success for Kerry's mission to revive the peace process. Settlement expansion is a key deterrent to the Palestinians returning to the negotiating table.

Yariv Oppenheimer, the director of Peace Now, said: "Instead of defending Israel's interest, the defence minister is defending the security of the hilltop youth. This is a slap in the face to the efforts of the US secretary of state to restart negotiations."

The Palestinian official Hanan Ashrawi said the move showed "the truth of an ongoing Israeli policy to create facts on the ground. It pre-empts Kerry's visit to the region next week, and makes a mockery at any attempt to launch viable negotiations. These actions send a clear message to both the Obama administration and to the Palestinian people that Israel is committed more to land theft than to peacemaking."
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • badbrainsbadbrains Posts: 2,547
    What else is new? Same shit. Best part, they ALWAYS get away with it. But dnt blame Israel, oh no, they NEVER do anything wrong. Stealing land that ISN'T there's is ok cuz they're gods chosen people. :fp:
  • I will never understand the hate towards Israel on this forum.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 19,604
    RustyShackelford" said:
    I will never understand the hate towards Israel on this forum.
    You think people should be ok with Apartheid and ethnic cleansing then?

    Anyway, there's a difference between opposing and criticising a countries governments policies, and hating a country. But then I'm sure you know that already, right?
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 10,639
    Building a house on a wasteland = ethnic cleansing

    Get it. Got it. Good.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 19,604
    edited May 2013
    Jason P" said:
    Building a house on a wasteland = ethnic cleansing

    Get it. Got it. Good.
    No, evicting Palestinians from their homes, and bulldozing Palestinian homes and stealing their land = ethnic cleansing.

    But then, I'm sure you're o.k with that, right?
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,167
    RustyShackelford" said:
    I will never understand the hate towards Israel on this forum.

    then you need to educate yourself. and you need to understand that any hatred is directed towards the Israeli govt., NOT israel. I doubt there is anyone here who would deny israels right to exist. it is the makeup of that Israel that is in dispute... that has always been in dispute. if you do not get that nuance then I suggest you excuse yourself from the discussion.
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  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,167
    badbrains" said:
    What else is new? Same shit. Best part, they ALWAYS get away with it. But dnt blame Israel, oh no, they NEVER do anything wrong. Stealing land that ISN'T there's is ok cuz they're gods chosen people. :fp:
    you know what im wondering? what Israel is it they they want? is it the united Israel of david and solomon or is it the israel of the divided lands of israel and judea? what point in history of the land of 'israel' is it were dealing with here?
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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 10,639
    Byrnzie" said:
    [quote="Jason P"]Building a house on a wasteland = ethnic cleansing

    Get it. Got it. Good.
    No, evicting Palestinians from their homes, and bulldozing Palestinian homes and stealing their land = ethnic cleansing.

    But then, I'm sure you're o.k with that, right?[/quote]
    I'm not ok with what is going on over there. The whole area is fucked up. But this article has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing. Nothing.

    Don't over-dramatize every article you paste here. Perhaps you will get better results in debate of the subject if you let the facts tell the story.

    Just a suggestion.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 19,604
    Jason P" said:
    [quote="Byrnzie"][quote="Jason P"]Building a house on a wasteland = ethnic cleansing

    Get it. Got it. Good.
    No, evicting Palestinians from their homes, and bulldozing Palestinian homes and stealing their land = ethnic cleansing.

    But then, I'm sure you're o.k with that, right?[/quote]
    I'm not ok with what is going on over there. The whole area is fucked up. But this article has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing. Nothing.

    Don't over-dramatize every article you paste here. Perhaps you will get better results in debate of the subject if you let the facts tell the story.

    Just a suggestion.[/quote]

    So stealing another peoples land and erecting Jewish-only settlements on it doesn't constitute ethnic cleansing? I suggest you check the definition of 'ethnic cleansing'.
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,167
    Byrnzie" said:
    [quote="Jason P"][quote="Byrnzie"]No, evicting Palestinians from their homes, and bulldozing Palestinian homes and stealing their land = ethnic cleansing.

    But then, I'm sure you're o.k with that, right?
    I'm not ok with what is going on over there. The whole area is fucked up. But this article has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing. Nothing.

    Don't over-dramatize every article you paste here. Perhaps you will get better results in debate of the subject if you let the facts tell the story.

    Just a suggestion.[/quote]

    So stealing another peoples land and erecting Jewish-only settlements on it doesn't constitute ethnic cleansing? I suggest you check the definition of 'ethnic cleansing'.[/quote]


    im absolutely certain that the 'situation' for the palestinians couldn't be over dramatized by anyones definition... except perhaps that of the Israeli govt. Jason P perhaps you need to put yourself in the position of the Palestinians(or anyone who has been displaced by a settler society) and maybe then youll understand.
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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 10,639
    Byrnzie" said:

    So stealing another peoples land and erecting Jewish-only settlements on it doesn't constitute ethnic cleansing? I suggest you check the definition of 'ethnic cleansing'.
    Ethnic cleansing usually involves attempts to remove physical and cultural evidence of the targeted group in the territory through the destruction of homes, social centers, farms, and infrastructure, and by the desecration of monuments, cemeteries, and places of worship.

    Hmmm. Appears you got me there.

    But I guess this defintion justifies the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,167
    Jason P" said:
    [quote="Byrnzie"]
    So stealing another peoples land and erecting Jewish-only settlements on it doesn't constitute ethnic cleansing? I suggest you check the definition of 'ethnic cleansing'.
    Ethnic cleansing usually involves attempts to remove physical and cultural evidence of the targeted group in the territory through the destruction of homes, social centers, farms, and infrastructure, and by the desecration of monuments, cemeteries, and places of worship.

    Hmmm. Appears you got me there.

    But I guess this defintion justifies the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan.[/quote]

    no... the US needs no justification for occupation as they tend to not give a shit... besides afghanistan is a strategic asset. israels justification is based on religion and is therefore, bullshit... as religion was made up by men. it holds no water cause it isn't much more than myth. the west kowtows to them because of some sort of misguided guilt.
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  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 19,604
    catefrances" said:
    israels justification is based on religion and is therefore, bullshit... as religion was made up by men. it holds no water cause it isn't much more than myth. the west kowtows to them because of some sort of misguided guilt.
    The West doesn't really kowtow to them. The U.S does though. Mainly as a remnant of the Cold war, and because they're still strategically useful, as they help the U.S maintain it's hegemony in the region.

    The U.S didn't give a shit about Israel until after the 1967 war. And neither did American Jews. Then Cold War politics, and the June 1967 war, saw to it that Israel became a strategic asset of the U.S. That strategic asset has remained in place since the U.S seeks dominance of the region and it's natural resources. Though Israel has been testing the limits of this relationship for a long time by acting like a reckless rogue state, and by contributing to making the U.S a target of international terrorism - see 9/11.
    The Jewish vote and AIPAC in the U.S are actually pretty insignificant in the big scheme of things, especially considering that the vast majority of American Jews are democratic. And current trends show that American Jews are increasingly distancing themselves from Israel.
    And the more of a liability Israel becomes, and the more it's aggressive militarism threatens U.S interests, the more we'll see America distance itself from Israel.

    Prior to the June 1967 war the vast majority of American Jews didn't give a toss about Israel:


    Norman Finkelstein: 'Knowing Too Much: Why The American Jewish Romance With Israel is Coming To An End'

    P.38: 'In his indifference to Israel, Podhoretz was typical of his generation of American Jewish intellectuals. An April 1961 Commentary symposium "Jewishness and The Younger Intellectuals," posed a series of questions to 31 "promising Jewish intellectuals" on the meaning of their Jewish identity, the last of which was "Do you feel any special connection with the State of Israel?" Only two respondents avowed a deep (if not uncritical) attachment to Israel, while most briefly expressed a "sympathy" for Israel against the threat of it's Arab neighbours coupled with reservations about Israel's politics and ideology. Fully a third of the respondents either did not bother to answer the Israel question or expressed indifference or hostility toward Israel.
    Often scathing in their criticism, these up-and-coming Jewish intellectuals variously denounced Israel for it's "nationalistic and militaristic fervour" and it's "rigid position on the Arab refugees," it's "racial bigotry, political machinations and....excess of nationalism," it's "chronic, aggressive insecurities," and it's "notion of manifest destiny." Still others proclaimed, "I no longer feel any commitment to or personal sympathy with [Israel]",; "I am anti-Zionist. Jewish chauvinism is no less despicable than other kinds of chauvinism - and more despicable than many, since it is based on racist ideology...In the dispute between Israel and the 900,000 Arab refugees it has driven from their lands, I support the Arabs"; "My landscape is not Israel. My troubles are American troubles." This last curt dismissal came from Barbara Probst Solomon, who later lent her name to Joan Peter's 1984 "pro"-Israel forgery 'From Time Immemorial'.
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,167
    Byrnzie" said:
    [quote="catefrances"]israels justification is based on religion and is therefore, bullshit... as religion was made up by men. it holds no water cause it isn't much more than myth. the west kowtows to them because of some sort of misguided guilt.
    The West doesn't really kowtow to them. The U.S does though. Mainly as a remnant of the Cold war, and because they're still strategically useful, as they help the U.S maintain it's hegemony in the region.

    The U.S didn't give a shit about Israel until after the 1967 war. And neither did American Jews. Then Cold War politics, and the June 1967 war, saw to it that Israel became a strategic asset of the U.S. That strategic asset has remained in place since the U.S seeks dominance of the region and it's natural resources. Though Israel has been testing the limits of this relationship for a long time by acting like a reckless rogue state, and by contributing to making the U.S a target of international terrorism - see 9/11.
    The Jewish vote and AIPAC in the U.S are actually pretty insignificant in the big scheme of things, especially considering that the vast majority of American Jews are democratic. And current trends show that American Jews are increasingly distancing themselves from Israel.
    And the more of a liability Israel becomes, and the more it's aggressive militarism threatens U.S interests, the more we'll see America distance itself from Israel.[/quote]

    well considering countries( my country specifically) tend to follow the lead of the US, id consider that kowtowing. but tbh it seems to be more about upsetting Washington than tel aviv.
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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 10,639
    catefrances" said:

    no... the US needs no justification for occupation as they tend to not give a shit... besides afghanistan is a strategic asset. israels justification is based on religion and is therefore, bullshit... as religion was made up by men. it holds no water cause it isn't much more than myth. the west kowtows to them because of some sort of misguided guilt.
    The atheists are fucking shit up the best now, it appears. Thank technology and education for that.

    Although Afghanistan may be considered a strategic asset due to the proximity of Iran, let’s recall a few key things.

    The Taliban attacked and ethnic cleansed that country in 1996. No one gave a shit.

    Assholes flied airplanes into the Twin Towers in 2001. Everyone gave a shit.

    We said give us Bin Laden. They told us to fuck off.

    And we now are leaving this strategic asset. So our overlord and king tells us.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 19,604
    catefrances" said:
    well considering countries( my country specifically) tend to follow the lead of the US, id consider that kowtowing. but tbh it seems to be more about upsetting Washington than tel aviv.
    Australia is an exception to the rule, as the annual vote on the “Peaceful Settlement of the Question of Palestine” demonstrates:


    The United Nations General Assembly annually votes on a resolution titled, “Peaceful Settlement of the Question of Palestine.” This resolution uniformly includes these tenets for “achieving a peaceful settlement of the question of Palestine”: (1) “Affirming the principle of the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war”; (2) “Affirming also the illegality of the Israeli settlements in the territory occupied since 1967 and of Israeli actions aimed at changing the status of Jerusalem”; (3) “Stresses the need for: (a) The realization of the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, primarily the right to self-determination; (b) The withdrawal of Israel from the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967”; (4) “Also stresses the need for resolving the problem of the Palestine refugees in conformity with its resolution 194 (III) of 11 December 1948.” Here is the recorded vote on this resolution the past decade:


    1997 [155-2-3]

    Israel, United States


    1998 [154-2-3]

    Israel, United States


    1999 [149-3-2]

    Israel, United States , Marshall Islands


    2000 [149-2-3]

    Israel, United States


    2001 [131-6-20]

    Israel, United States , Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Tuvalu


    2002 [160-4-3]

    Israel, United States , Marshall Islands, Micronesia


    2003 [160-6-5]

    Israel, United States , Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Palau, Uganda


    2004 [161-7-10]

    Israel, United States , Australia, Grenada, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Palau


    2005 [156-6-9]

    Israel, United States , Australia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Palau


    2006 [157-7-10]

    Israel, United States , Australia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau


    2007 [161-7-5]

    Israel, United States , Australia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau

    2008 [164-7]

    Israel, United States , Australia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau


    2009 [163-7]

    United States, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Panama,


    2010 [165-7-4]

    Israel, United States, Australia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

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  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 19,604
    edited May 2013
    Jason P" said:
    We said give us Bin Laden. They told us to fuck off.
    No they didn't. They said provide us with evidence of his guilt. And the U.S refused. Big difference.
    Post edited by Byrnzie on
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

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  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,167
    Jason P" said:
    [quote="catefrances"]
    no... the US needs no justification for occupation as they tend to not give a shit... besides afghanistan is a strategic asset. israels justification is based on religion and is therefore, bullshit... as religion was made up by men. it holds no water cause it isn't much more than myth. the west kowtows to them because of some sort of misguided guilt.
    The atheists are fucking shit up the best now, it appears. Thank technology and education for that.

    Although Afghanistan may be considered a strategic asset due to the proximity of Iran, let’s recall a few key things.

    The Taliban attacked and ethnic cleansed that country in 1996. No one gave a shit.

    Assholes flied airplanes into the Twin Towers in 2001. Everyone gave a shit.


    We said give us Bin Laden. They told us to fuck off.

    And we now are leaving this strategic asset. So our overlord and king tells us.[/quote]


    the atheists???? youre gonna have to be more specific.. there are millions of us.

    afghanistans strategic importance has nothing to do with iran.
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  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,167
    Byrnzie" said:
    [quote="catefrances"]well considering countries( my country specifically) tend to follow the lead of the US, id consider that kowtowing. but tbh it seems to be more about upsetting Washington than tel aviv.
    Australia is an exception to the rule, as the annual vote on the “Peaceful Settlement of the Question of Palestine” demonstrates: ...[/quote]


    and how proud I am as an Australian. :roll:
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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 10,639
    Byrnzie" said:
    [quote="Jason P"]We said give us Bin Laden. They told us to fuck off.
    No they didn't. They said provide us with evidence of his guilt. And the U.S refused. Big difference.[/quote]
    How can you ask us to keep our eyes open when you bury your head in the sand?

    :fp:
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 19,604
    Jason P" said:
    [quote="Byrnzie"][quote="Jason P"]We said give us Bin Laden. They told us to fuck off.
    No they didn't. They said provide us with evidence of his guilt. And the U.S refused. Big difference.[/quote]
    How can you ask us to keep our eyes open when you bury your head in the sand?

    :fp:[/quote]

    Care to elaborate?
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

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  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 19,604
    Thought not.
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 10,639
    catefrances" said:

    the atheists???? youre gonna have to be more specific.. there are millions of us.

    afghanistans strategic importance has nothing to do with iran.
    The US has separation of state and church. Technically, we are a godless nation. Based on how we are using the definition of ethnic cleansing in this thread, that fact cannot be refuted.

    And everyone claims we are the key factor for everything that goes wrong in the history of mankind. So atheists are the biggest problem in the world, or so it seems.

    And the strategic value of Afghanistan has nothing to do with Iran? Is it the Poppy fields then?

    Or the barren wasteland? Which reportedly has billions of dollars of raw minerals. Except no one in their right mind will go there to extract them.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 10,639
    Byrnzie" said:

    Care to elaborate?
    You tend to take broad strokes of information and make them definitive fact as it benefits your opinion. i.e. Reagan killed all those South Americans, not the South Americans who were killing the South Americans.

    But you require definitive fact backed by definitive fact when a topic doesn't agree with your opinion.

    At least that is my opinion. And my opinions are not always right.
  • IdrisIdris FloridaPosts: 1,541
    Byrnzie is accurate about the US saying that it did not need to provide any proof to the Taliban. I remember watching the video of it myself.

    Maybe YouTube has it now?
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 10,639
    Idris" said:
    Byrnzie is accurate about the US saying that it did not need to provide any proof to the Taliban. I remember watching the video of it myself.

    Maybe YouTube has it now?
    image
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,167
    edited May 2013
    Jason P" said:
    [quote="catefrances"]
    the atheists???? youre gonna have to be more specific.. there are millions of us.

    afghanistans strategic importance has nothing to do with iran.
    The US has separation of state and church. Technically, we are a godless nation. Based on how we are using the definition of ethnic cleansing in this thread, that fact cannot be refuted.

    And everyone claims we are the key factor for everything that goes wrong in the history of mankind. So atheists are the biggest problem in the world, or so it seems.

    And the strategic value of Afghanistan has nothing to do with Iran? Is it the Poppy fields then?

    Or the barren wasteland? Which reportedly has billions of dollars of raw minerals. Except no one in their right mind will go there to extract them.[/quote]


    well that's bullshit. the US isn't an atheist state. have you forgotten the origins of your own country?


    energy and the control of that energy.. that is what its about. if you are saying that the US interest in iran has to do with energy resources then I will back you up... if however you are of the opinion that the US interest in iran is based on something else then I shall have to take my leave. why is your focus on iran anyways???
    Post edited by catefrances on
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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 10,639
    catefrances" said:
    well that's bullshit. the US isn't an atheist state. have you forgotten the origins of your own country?


    energy and the control of that energy.. that is what its about. if you are saying that the US interest in iran has to do with energy resources then I will back you up... if however you are of the opinion that the US interest in iran is based on something else then I shall have to take my leave. why is your focus on iran anyways???
    From what I see and observe, we are an atheist state. Some people may go to church, but don't practice what is preached. I'd say less then 20% of Americans are truly religious. The midwest is higher in percentage of church goers, but when I lived on the west coast religious influence was dormant.

    The strategic asset of Afghanistan is its location. Check out a map and see. We have a place to base military operations centered around Iran, Russia, China, and Pakistan. That is the asset.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,167
    Jason P" said:
    [quote="catefrances"] well that's bullshit. the US isn't an atheist state. have you forgotten the origins of your own country?


    energy and the control of that energy.. that is what its about. if you are saying that the US interest in iran has to do with energy resources then I will back you up... if however you are of the opinion that the US interest in iran is based on something else then I shall have to take my leave. why is your focus on iran anyways???
    From what I see and observe, we are an atheist state. Some people may go to church, but don't practice what is preached. I'd say less then 20% of Americans are truly religious. The midwest is higher in percentage of church goers, but when I lived on the west coast religious influence was dormant.

    The strategic asset of Afghanistan is its location. Check out a map and see. We have a place to base military operations centered around Iran, Russia, China, and Pakistan. That is the asset.[/quote]


    so now youre extending afghanistans strategic importance for the US to Russia, China and Pakistan? I don't need to check out a map.. Ive know where everything is for many years now.

    so your pledge of allegiance and the fact that the words in god we trust are printed on your money means nothing?
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  • Jason PJason P Posts: 10,639
    catefrances" said:

    so now youre extending afghanistans strategic importance for the US to Russia, China and Pakistan? I don't need to check out a map.. Ive know where everything is for many years now.

    so your pledge of allegiance and the fact that the words in god we trust printed on your money means nothing?
    I'd consider it a key piece in the game of R.I.S.K. It's becoming less of a key piece as time goes on and technology advances. Scram Jets and carrier based drones will eliminate the need for foreign bases.

    Using the term "god" in the pledge in public places can get you fired or suspended nowadays. Any sign of religion in public places will get you sued. Money gets a pass due to the amount of money it would take to redo the entire US currency circulation. My guess is that the “pass” has it’s days numbered.
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