Smashing Pumpkins!

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  • You all sign up on their webpage? Fanbridge? Asks for a lot of info...
    Only asked me for email address.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,247
    Have to say, Billy seems reasonable. He seems to even be accommodating to her issues. Comeple 180 for the way he's treated her in the past 20 years. D'arcy ends up looking bad here. 

    Congrats D'arcy, you made me say Billy Corgan looks reasonable and accommodating. 

    but what issues? her perceived issues are his issues. he seems to be assuming all this stuff about her and how she'd be able to handle it after so long out of the spotlight, and offering things then taking them away. he offered them all a 25 split contract, then a month later said "that wasn't a real offer". he offered her to be a full member, then all of a sudden she's going to be a Steven Adler type guest at a few shows on a few songs. he told them in the beginning that they'd all get in a room and see how things go and the tour is secondary. now the tour and how he (he says "the band") is going to be perceived is the be all end all. 

    he seemed disappointed that she wasn't going to get shoulder surgery so he could no longer use that as an excuse to exluded her. 

    initially it seemed like BC was being a nice guy. Now after everything I've read: it seems like he's being a coniving asshole. and jimmy and james seem like spineless shitheads. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,247
    D'Arcy seems to be right about a lot of Billy's insecurity issues and controlling nature. 

    D'Arcy quit/was fired because she was the only one who wouldn't take his bullshit. 
    Melissa isn't wanted back because her playing overtakes his ("she plays like a man"-I guess that's why he always hires female bassists?)
    Nicole was fired because she was able to engage with the fans in a way he couldn't. 

    if you look at all the people that have been in SP over the years, the only ones that have survived have been the ones who remained in the back of the room and were ok with letting BC have all the spotlight to himself. 

    He's an amazing songwriter/musician, but let's call it what it is: he's a fucking asshole and always will be. 
  • Indifference71Indifference71 ChicagoPosts: 12,751
    D'Arcy seems to be right about a lot of Billy's insecurity issues and controlling nature. 

    D'Arcy quit/was fired because she was the only one who wouldn't take his bullshit. 
    Melissa isn't wanted back because her playing overtakes his ("she plays like a man"-I guess that's why he always hires female bassists?)
    Nicole was fired because she was able to engage with the fans in a way he couldn't. 

    if you look at all the people that have been in SP over the years, the only ones that have survived have been the ones who remained in the back of the room and were ok with letting BC have all the spotlight to himself. 

    He's an amazing songwriter/musician, but let's call it what it is: he's a fucking asshole and always will be. 
    That's a perfect summary.  He has made some incredible music, but he's just a complete jerkoff.  Having said that, I'll probably try to catch them on this tour.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13, 10/17/14, 10/20/14, 4/18/16, 4/20/16, 5/2/16, 5/3/16, 8/20/16, 8/22/16
  • lolobugglolobugg BLUE RDGE MTNSPosts: 7,619

    Man, I don't know.

    I don't believe everything D'arcy said.

    Seems like she is still dealing with her own issues.

    She contradicts herself constantly in that interview.

    everyone knows Billy is shit as a communicator. that isn't news to me.

    livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446

    1995- New Orleans, LA

    1996- Charleston, SC

    1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN

    2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN

    2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA

    2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)

    2006- Cincinnati, OH

    2008- Columbia, SC

    2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Ved- Atlanta, GA x 2

    2010- Bristow, VA

    2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Ved- Chicago, IL

    2012- Atlanta, GA

    2013- Charlotte, NC

    2014- Cincinnati, OH

    2015- New York, NY

    2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA

    2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY

    2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2

  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 3,136
    Have to say, Billy seems reasonable. He seems to even be accommodating to her issues. Comeple 180 for the way he's treated her in the past 20 years. D'arcy ends up looking bad here. 

    Congrats D'arcy, you made me say Billy Corgan looks reasonable and accommodating. 

    but what issues? her perceived issues are his issues. he seems to be assuming all this stuff about her and how she'd be able to handle it after so long out of the spotlight, and offering things then taking them away. he offered them all a 25 split contract, then a month later said "that wasn't a real offer". he offered her to be a full member, then all of a sudden she's going to be a Steven Adler type guest at a few shows on a few songs. he told them in the beginning that they'd all get in a room and see how things go and the tour is secondary. now the tour and how he (he says "the band") is going to be perceived is the be all end all. 

    he seemed disappointed that she wasn't going to get shoulder surgery so he could no longer use that as an excuse to exluded her. 

    initially it seemed like BC was being a nice guy. Now after everything I've read: it seems like he's being a coniving asshole. and jimmy and james seem like spineless shitheads. 
    Clearly she has health issues. I don’t know if any of it are left over from her addiction days. But clearly from the texts, she isn’t 100% and I have to give Billy credit for trying to accommodate her because he thought it was important (whatever the motivation) to have her on the tour. 

    I think there is information that he public doesn’t know and we can either speculate or go with what’s presented. What’s presented made me think that Billy Corgan started acting like a reasonable person again. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,247
    lolobugg said:

    Man, I don't know.

    I don't believe everything D'arcy said.

    Seems like she is still dealing with her own issues.

    She contradicts herself constantly in that interview.

    everyone knows Billy is shit as a communicator. that isn't news to me.

    how so? I read it. I didn't see any contradictions (except one where she said she and Billy had never been friends and then later on talked about their friendship). No, of course I don't believe everything she said. But I look at what has been said/presented on both sides, and also given Billy's past behaviour/comments about current/past band members, he is a certifiable asshole. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,247
    Have to say, Billy seems reasonable. He seems to even be accommodating to her issues. Comeple 180 for the way he's treated her in the past 20 years. D'arcy ends up looking bad here. 

    Congrats D'arcy, you made me say Billy Corgan looks reasonable and accommodating. 

    but what issues? her perceived issues are his issues. he seems to be assuming all this stuff about her and how she'd be able to handle it after so long out of the spotlight, and offering things then taking them away. he offered them all a 25 split contract, then a month later said "that wasn't a real offer". he offered her to be a full member, then all of a sudden she's going to be a Steven Adler type guest at a few shows on a few songs. he told them in the beginning that they'd all get in a room and see how things go and the tour is secondary. now the tour and how he (he says "the band") is going to be perceived is the be all end all. 

    he seemed disappointed that she wasn't going to get shoulder surgery so he could no longer use that as an excuse to exluded her. 

    initially it seemed like BC was being a nice guy. Now after everything I've read: it seems like he's being a coniving asshole. and jimmy and james seem like spineless shitheads. 
    Clearly she has health issues. I don’t know if any of it are left over from her addiction days. But clearly from the texts, she isn’t 100% and I have to give Billy credit for trying to accommodate her because he thought it was important (whatever the motivation) to have her on the tour. 

    I think there is information that he public doesn’t know and we can either speculate or go with what’s presented. What’s presented made me think that Billy Corgan started acting like a reasonable person again. 
    how is it clear she has health issues?

    what's presented makes me think the opposite. in the first batch of texts that I read, yes, I would agree that he seemed very accomodating and reasonable, even moreso than I would think he needed to be. Then I kept reading.........
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 3,136
    I mean, she said her shoulder was fucked. 

    Also she was addicted to crack.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,247
    I mean, she said her shoulder was fucked. 

    Also she was addicted to crack.
    she said her doctor gave her the green light for her shoulder. 

    her crack thing was 20 years ago, was it not?
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 3,136
    Well, the last time we heard about it was 18 years, ago, yeah. 


  • lolobugglolobugg BLUE RDGE MTNSPosts: 7,619

    I saw the band in 99 at a club show. I was rail right in front of D'arcy.

    She was extremely fucked up. and looked terrible. she had shaved her eyebrows off and had really bad plastic surgery.

    rail thin. I believe she has been a coke addict for a long time. she admitted it when she lived in Austin.

    I feel sorry for her more than anything. I met her and her grandparents at a show in 97. she seemed really nice.

    but I think she is just shitting on this reunion because she knows that she isn't up for a major tour.

    livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446

    1995- New Orleans, LA

    1996- Charleston, SC

    1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN

    2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN

    2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA

    2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)

    2006- Cincinnati, OH

    2008- Columbia, SC

    2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Ved- Atlanta, GA x 2

    2010- Bristow, VA

    2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Ved- Chicago, IL

    2012- Atlanta, GA

    2013- Charlotte, NC

    2014- Cincinnati, OH

    2015- New York, NY

    2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA

    2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY

    2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2

  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 3,136
    edited February 14
    I'm not saying Billy isn't terrible, I'm just saying, in this case, he may have had the best intentions going into it, but clearly it didn't work out. I don't think this incident is not the best example to point out what an asshole Billy is. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,247
    lolobugg said:

    I saw the band in 99 at a club show. I was rail right in front of D'arcy.

    She was extremely fucked up. and looked terrible. she had shaved her eyebrows off and had really bad plastic surgery.

    rail thin. I believe she has been a coke addict for a long time. she admitted it when she lived in Austin.

    I feel sorry for her more than anything. I met her and her grandparents at a show in 97. she seemed really nice.

    but I think she is just shitting on this reunion because she knows that she isn't up for a major tour.

    you all might be right. it could be that she's just looking for a way to come out of this unscathed. I just can't really understand why someone wouldn't just say "nope, don't want to do it" and leave it at that. plenty of musicians quit bands because of the touring commitments. not sure why someone would lie about it and scapegoat others for it. 
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 3,136
    I'm only speculating, but I don't think she's got it all together anymore. Between the drugs, the weird FB posts over the years, the weird horse assault stuff, the facial augmentation, to me it looks like she's got issues. So these texts and interview to me come across as an unreliable narrator. Billy's offer of just playing a couple songs per night and giving her her own bus, tells me he knows something is up. IF that is all true, I can't blame the guy for continually putting feelers in those texts to see if she's up for it. 

    I could be wrong. Its all speculation obviously. Billy is also the most unreliable narrator, so IDK. this did make me think a bit differently about him though. Maybe will give him a chance to see this tour. 

  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,616
    I think he quite rightly didn't want there to be anything to derail the reunion, so he was making sure he had a contingency plan.  However, the way he's approached it is pretty insensitive, he could have probably done more to figure out whether D'arcy was in a fit enough state to embark on a huge tour, rather than arrange the backup in advance, and share that with everyone.

    At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what Billy thinks her contribution was to the band, fans have other ideas, and the allure of a reunion is based on nostalgia for that original lineup.  I think Billy kind of owed it to everyone to try his hardest to make it happen.  I'm not saying D'arcy doesn't have a lot of issues, and completely understand Billy being hesitant, but at least get in the room with the woman and see what kind of place she's in.

    It's a shame, and I still hold out hope that they can figure it out.  I'll still go see them regardless, and I'll cross my fingers for some decent new music.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,247
    I think he quite rightly didn't want there to be anything to derail the reunion, so he was making sure he had a contingency plan.  However, the way he's approached it is pretty insensitive, he could have probably done more to figure out whether D'arcy was in a fit enough state to embark on a huge tour, rather than arrange the backup in advance, and share that with everyone.

    At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what Billy thinks her contribution was to the band, fans have other ideas, and the allure of a reunion is based on nostalgia for that original lineup.  I think Billy kind of owed it to everyone to try his hardest to make it happen.  I'm not saying D'arcy doesn't have a lot of issues, and completely understand Billy being hesitant, but at least get in the room with the woman and see what kind of place she's in.

    It's a shame, and I still hold out hope that they can figure it out.  I'll still go see them regardless, and I'll cross my fingers for some decent new music.
    yeah, the whole "texting" thing seems very weird. Why not have face to face meetings? how the hell do you guage what a person is/isn't up for through electronic messaging?

    they could have easily had another bassist do the big tour, and Darcy do a short 5 US city run to close out the tour like Chicago, Philly, LA, NY, and Boston or something like that. 

    who knows what the real story is, like many have said. 

    i saw the original lineup in 1996 for Mellon Collie, with Melissa in 2000, and then with Nicole in 2012. I have no nostalgia feeling with this band. if they come, I'll go. But it won't break my heart if they don't. 
  • I love Smashing Pumpkins music, but the last Calgary show was maybe the worst concert i have ever been to.
  • Love how Corgan is sharing more on Instagram about being a Dad.
    www.cluthelee.com
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,247
    I love Smashing Pumpkins music, but the last Calgary show was maybe the worst concert i have ever been to.
    really? why? the 3 times i've seen them they've been awesome. 
  • BIGDaddyWilBIGDaddyWil MichiganPosts: 2,160
    The pissing and moaning between Corgan and D'arcy is sure getting a lot of attention. It's probably staged to bring attention to the new album and tour. Who cares, right???? Just put out the album and tour!
    Pine Knob Music Theatre - Jul 31, 1992 Crisler Arena - Mar 20, 1994
    Summerfest - Jul 09, 1995*Savage Hall - Sep 22, 1996The Palace of Auburn Hills-Aug 23, 1998 Breslin Center- Aug 18, 1998,The Palace of Auburn Hills-Oct 07, 2000 DTE Energy Theatre-Jun5,2003,DTE Energy Music Theatre - Jun 26, 2003Sports Arena - Oct 02, 2004 Van Andel Arena - May 19, 2006Palace of Auburn Hills-May 22, 2006 Quicken Loans Arena-May 09, 2010
    10-16-2014 Detroit
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,247
    The pissing and moaning between Corgan and D'arcy is sure getting a lot of attention. It's probably staged to bring attention to the new album and tour. Who cares, right???? Just put out the album and tour!
    I thought about this too. this is more publicity than they could have hoped for. 
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,616
    I think he quite rightly didn't want there to be anything to derail the reunion, so he was making sure he had a contingency plan.  However, the way he's approached it is pretty insensitive, he could have probably done more to figure out whether D'arcy was in a fit enough state to embark on a huge tour, rather than arrange the backup in advance, and share that with everyone.

    At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what Billy thinks her contribution was to the band, fans have other ideas, and the allure of a reunion is based on nostalgia for that original lineup.  I think Billy kind of owed it to everyone to try his hardest to make it happen.  I'm not saying D'arcy doesn't have a lot of issues, and completely understand Billy being hesitant, but at least get in the room with the woman and see what kind of place she's in.

    It's a shame, and I still hold out hope that they can figure it out.  I'll still go see them regardless, and I'll cross my fingers for some decent new music.
    yeah, the whole "texting" thing seems very weird. Why not have face to face meetings? how the hell do you guage what a person is/isn't up for through electronic messaging?

    they could have easily had another bassist do the big tour, and Darcy do a short 5 US city run to close out the tour like Chicago, Philly, LA, NY, and Boston or something like that. 

    who knows what the real story is, like many have said. 

    i saw the original lineup in 1996 for Mellon Collie, with Melissa in 2000, and then with Nicole in 2012. I have no nostalgia feeling with this band. if they come, I'll go. But it won't break my heart if they don't. 
    Yeah I saw the original lineup back in the day a couple of times on the Mellon Collie tour too, and a few of their reunion shows around Zeitgeist.  They're a hugely nostalgic band for me, listening to Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie just takes me back to my teenage years, they evoke a really bittersweet feeling.  That said, my real interest in the reunion is that they make some really good new music - I see no reason why they can't, providing Billy sticks to writing big melodies rather than the experimentation that has marred most of his post 90s work.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,247
    I think he quite rightly didn't want there to be anything to derail the reunion, so he was making sure he had a contingency plan.  However, the way he's approached it is pretty insensitive, he could have probably done more to figure out whether D'arcy was in a fit enough state to embark on a huge tour, rather than arrange the backup in advance, and share that with everyone.

    At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what Billy thinks her contribution was to the band, fans have other ideas, and the allure of a reunion is based on nostalgia for that original lineup.  I think Billy kind of owed it to everyone to try his hardest to make it happen.  I'm not saying D'arcy doesn't have a lot of issues, and completely understand Billy being hesitant, but at least get in the room with the woman and see what kind of place she's in.

    It's a shame, and I still hold out hope that they can figure it out.  I'll still go see them regardless, and I'll cross my fingers for some decent new music.
    yeah, the whole "texting" thing seems very weird. Why not have face to face meetings? how the hell do you guage what a person is/isn't up for through electronic messaging?

    they could have easily had another bassist do the big tour, and Darcy do a short 5 US city run to close out the tour like Chicago, Philly, LA, NY, and Boston or something like that. 

    who knows what the real story is, like many have said. 

    i saw the original lineup in 1996 for Mellon Collie, with Melissa in 2000, and then with Nicole in 2012. I have no nostalgia feeling with this band. if they come, I'll go. But it won't break my heart if they don't. 
    Yeah I saw the original lineup back in the day a couple of times on the Mellon Collie tour too, and a few of their reunion shows around Zeitgeist.  They're a hugely nostalgic band for me, listening to Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie just takes me back to my teenage years, they evoke a really bittersweet feeling.  That said, my real interest in the reunion is that they make some really good new music - I see no reason why they can't, providing Billy sticks to writing big melodies rather than the experimentation that has marred most of his post 90s work.
    oh, I get all goosebumpy when i hear the music from the 90's, but I just meant no nostalgic feelings for seeing the original lineup, as I had already seen it. 

    same with GNR. I took my wife for her, as she had only seen Axl and Friends, but I saw them in 91 for UYI, so it didn't mean as much to me. 
  • bflynn1bflynn1 Posts: 1,145
    I think he quite rightly didn't want there to be anything to derail the reunion, so he was making sure he had a contingency plan.  However, the way he's approached it is pretty insensitive, he could have probably done more to figure out whether D'arcy was in a fit enough state to embark on a huge tour, rather than arrange the backup in advance, and share that with everyone.

    At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what Billy thinks her contribution was to the band, fans have other ideas, and the allure of a reunion is based on nostalgia for that original lineup.  I think Billy kind of owed it to everyone to try his hardest to make it happen.  I'm not saying D'arcy doesn't have a lot of issues, and completely understand Billy being hesitant, but at least get in the room with the woman and see what kind of place she's in.

    It's a shame, and I still hold out hope that they can figure it out.  I'll still go see them regardless, and I'll cross my fingers for some decent new music.
    yeah, the whole "texting" thing seems very weird. Why not have face to face meetings? how the hell do you guage what a person is/isn't up for through electronic messaging?

    they could have easily had another bassist do the big tour, and Darcy do a short 5 US city run to close out the tour like Chicago, Philly, LA, NY, and Boston or something like that. 

    who knows what the real story is, like many have said. 

    i saw the original lineup in 1996 for Mellon Collie, with Melissa in 2000, and then with Nicole in 2012. I have no nostalgia feeling with this band. if they come, I'll go. But it won't break my heart if they don't. 
    Yeah I saw the original lineup back in the day a couple of times on the Mellon Collie tour too, and a few of their reunion shows around Zeitgeist.  They're a hugely nostalgic band for me, listening to Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie just takes me back to my teenage years, they evoke a really bittersweet feeling.  That said, my real interest in the reunion is that they make some really good new music - I see no reason why they can't, providing Billy sticks to writing big melodies rather than the experimentation that has marred most of his post 90s work.
    I love that nostalgic feeling that I get when I listen to them. I'm also hoping for some really good new music
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,616
    I see what you mean.  I guess I just have a now or never attitude towards it, I think life is too short for all the petty BS.....From what I've read from both sides, I think this was completely avoidable.  Ah, who knows what the future holds.  Would be cool to hear a new song tomorrow when they make their big announcement :)

  • Hoping the drama can resolve itself or move along. I really just want some sweet artwork, new album and a tour. Is that to much to ask?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,247
    Hoping the drama can resolve itself or move along. I really just want some sweet artwork, new album and a tour. Is that to much to ask?
    well, with Billy, like the end product or not, you can always expect a result. 
  • lolobugglolobugg BLUE RDGE MTNSPosts: 7,619
    Hoping the drama can resolve itself or move along. I really just want some sweet artwork, new album and a tour. Is that to much to ask?

    nope. I am looking forward to it.

    livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446

    1995- New Orleans, LA

    1996- Charleston, SC

    1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN

    2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN

    2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA

    2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)

    2006- Cincinnati, OH

    2008- Columbia, SC

    2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Ved- Atlanta, GA x 2

    2010- Bristow, VA

    2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Ved- Chicago, IL

    2012- Atlanta, GA

    2013- Charlotte, NC

    2014- Cincinnati, OH

    2015- New York, NY

    2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA

    2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY

    2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2

  • ZodZod Posts: 5,849
    I'm hoping for the best, but I kind of remember end of the pumpkins classic era... the last few albums, when D'arcy left the band.. etc... I'd felt they'd already lost their mojo long before Billy ever tried to do an Axl.

    Without D'arcy coming back, it feels more like an extension of that era, than the gish/siamese dream/pisces iscario/mellon collie/adore era...   If they come back full form I'll be impressed and want to go see them, but the pessimistic side of me isn't convinced they can pull it off.


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