Alright, What's This All About (StubHub)

brunobellbrunobell Posts: 59
edited February 2013 in The Porch
[link removed by Admin]

I thought only 10C had GA Pit tickets? $100k for 19 Pit tickets.
Post edited by Unknown User on
2006 Toronto II
2008 Toronto II (EV)
2009 Toronto
2010 Cleveland, Buffalo,
2011 Detroit (EV), East Troy I and II, Montreal, Toronto I and II, Hamilton
2012 Philadelphia

Comments

  • "its about democracy"
    "its about freedom"
    -South Park Movie
  • RKCNDYRKCNDY Seattle, WAPosts: 25,291
    or they have brokers that sign up as 10c members...Joe Schmoe doesn't know 10c tix are not for re-sale so the broker wouldn't get caught.
    Do what you do so well that they will want to see it again and bring their friend. - Walt Disney
  • PillowPantsPillowPants Posts: 4,523
    i could list a GA ticket on there for 10 billion dollars

    would you post about it??
    “A person without a sense of humor is like a wagon without springs. It's jolted by every pebble on the road.”
  • PillowPants" said:
    i could list a GA ticket on there for 10 billion dollars

    would you post about it??
    I was posting more about the 19 Pit tickets rather than the price. Doesn't stubhub guaratee that the tickets will be delivered or something? I'm assuming there's a penalty for selling "fake" tickets. Or is the penalty StubHub holding the funds?
    2006 Toronto II
    2008 Toronto II (EV)
    2009 Toronto
    2010 Cleveland, Buffalo,
    2011 Detroit (EV), East Troy I and II, Montreal, Toronto I and II, Hamilton
    2012 Philadelphia
  • 8181 Please play hakuna matata in DetroitPosts: 58,276
    brunobell" said:
    [quote="PillowPants"]i could list a GA ticket on there for 10 billion dollars

    would you post about it??
    I was posting more about the 19 Pit tickets rather than the price. Doesn't stubhub guaratee that the tickets will be delivered or something? I'm assuming there's a penalty for selling "fake" tickets. Or is the penalty StubHub holding the funds?[/quote]

    somebody posted some place else, that the seller doesn't get paid until a week after the event.
    81 is now off the air

    image
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 124,166
    email 10c ,they will tell you exactly why those tix are arent legit and where to look the next time for figure it yourself
    "....I'd rather be at Chicago Fishing Forum .."
  • 81" said:
    [quote="brunobell"][quote="PillowPants"]i could list a GA ticket on there for 10 billion dollars

    would you post about it??
    I was posting more about the 19 Pit tickets rather than the price. Doesn't stubhub guaratee that the tickets will be delivered or something? I'm assuming there's a penalty for selling "fake" tickets. Or is the penalty StubHub holding the funds?[/quote]

    somebody posted some place else, that the seller doesn't get paid until a week after the event.[/quote]

    Ah, makes sense. Thanks for the info.
    2006 Toronto II
    2008 Toronto II (EV)
    2009 Toronto
    2010 Cleveland, Buffalo,
    2011 Detroit (EV), East Troy I and II, Montreal, Toronto I and II, Hamilton
    2012 Philadelphia
  • dmbolpdmbolp Posts: 187
    Before this Stubhub thread get's locked too, no one is suggesting that anyone got to Stubhub now and buy a ticket for more than face value. We are suggesting you wait, and monitor prices, and eventually prices will be at face value. May take until day of show, but they will get there.

    That's the only way most of us can go to the show.
  • 81" said:
    [quote="brunobell"][quote="PillowPants"]i could list a GA ticket on there for 10 billion dollars

    would you post about it??
    I was posting more about the 19 Pit tickets rather than the price. Doesn't stubhub guaratee that the tickets will be delivered or something? I'm assuming there's a penalty for selling "fake" tickets. Or is the penalty StubHub holding the funds?[/quote]

    somebody posted some place else, that the seller doesn't get paid until a week after the event.[/quote]
    thats not true -- i sold some tickets on stubhub and the money was in my paypal the day after the fed ex delivery was confirmed.
  • front spacerfront spacer IndianaPosts: 1,352
    somebody posted some place else, that the seller doesn't get paid until a week after the event.[/quote]
    thats not true -- i sold some tickets on stubhub and the money was in my paypal the day after the fed ex delivery was confirmed.[/quote]

    I think we're talking about the delivery of tickets the week on the show, the tickets that we believe don't even exist in the brokers hands yet, and they're just speculating being able to fulfill the sale.

    Your sale was legit, you had hard tickets, you sent them, end of story. That isn't what is happening on StubHub, for the most part, right now.

    I see listings for tickets dropping below $250 now, but I figure they're going to do NOTHING but drop. Why lock into a ticket price now when at worst case you have to pay that same price closer to the show. And honestly you'll get in for a cheaper price, later.
    Indy - 08.17.98
    Indy - 08.18.00
    Indy - 06.22.03
    Indy - 05.07.10
    EV StL - 07.01.11
    Alpine Valley - 09.03.11, 09.04.11
    ATL - 09.22.12
    EV Jax - 11.24.12
    Chicago - 07.19.13
    Pittsburgh - 10.11.13
    Coming Soon......
    Moline 10.17.14
    Milwaukee 10.20.14
  • RE4790RE4790 Posts: 448
    front spacer" said:


    I see listings for tickets dropping below $250 now, but I figure they're going to do NOTHING but drop. Why lock into a ticket price now when at worst case you have to pay that same price closer to the show. And honestly you'll get in for a cheaper price, later.

    ATTENTION PANICKED WRIGLEY TICKET BUYERS!

    The above advice should be heeded before coughing up a week's pay to sit in the 500 section.
  • front spacerfront spacer IndianaPosts: 1,352
    RE4790" said:
    [quote="front spacer"]

    I see listings for tickets dropping below $250 now, but I figure they're going to do NOTHING but drop. Why lock into a ticket price now when at worst case you have to pay that same price closer to the show. And honestly you'll get in for a cheaper price, later.

    ATTENTION PANICKED WRIGLEY TICKET BUYERS!

    The above advice should be heeded before coughing up a week's pay to sit in the 500 section.[/quote]

    :thumbup:
    Indy - 08.17.98
    Indy - 08.18.00
    Indy - 06.22.03
    Indy - 05.07.10
    EV StL - 07.01.11
    Alpine Valley - 09.03.11, 09.04.11
    ATL - 09.22.12
    EV Jax - 11.24.12
    Chicago - 07.19.13
    Pittsburgh - 10.11.13
    Coming Soon......
    Moline 10.17.14
    Milwaukee 10.20.14
  • shepshep HoustonPosts: 5,266
    dmbolp" said:
    Before this Stubhub thread get's locked too, no one is suggesting that anyone got to Stubhub now and buy a ticket for more than face value. We are suggesting you wait, and monitor prices, and eventually prices will be at face value. May take until day of show, but they will get there.

    That's the only way most of us can go to the show.

    This is what I find incredibly dumb on the part of 10C.

    Why aren't we allowed to talk about stub hub?

    Most of the threads that have been locked on this forum are people sharing information about what they've seen on stubhub. a lot of people are complaining about the ticket prices, yea, but their also asking questions and trying to get guidance on how to deal with the situation.

    No body here is promoting or even advertising stub hub, however, at this point in time - what other choice do people have? Like me, many were shut out of the 10C lottery and the tickets.com lottery... literally I couldn't get 1 seat to my name. Personally, I feel let down, and I've decided I'm just not going to travel to the show, barring some kind of miracle, as I don't do business on the secondary market unless i'm paying face price or below - and that's not going to happen until I'm dealing with some dude outside of the venue... and I wouldn't bother with that in a city like chicago at a sold out show, where these scalpers are sharks...

    however - if i hadn't made this decision - what other choice do I have for tickets???!!!??? frankly stubhub presents the best alternative as at least they gaurentee your money back if you get fucked...

    10C needs to be a little more open to the community here and let us discuss this secondary market and pool the intelligence so that people make educated decisions and purchases.

    otherwise, they're basically saying, "If you didn't win the lottery, you don't get to go to the show."

    pfffftttt.... win a lottery to go to a concert.... ridiculous....

    Pearl Jam needs to tour so that this supply/demand issue can come to a head and they can satisfy their fans. At this point, the band is being extremely selfish IMO.

    Sorry, this post will probably just get the thread locked. :fp:
    Houston, Texas... Believe it or not, there are 7 million people here... must be a couple of fans who'd love to see you play.

    image
  • shep" said:


    This is what I find incredibly dumb on the part of 10C.

    Why aren't we allowed to talk about stub hub?

    Most of the threads that have been locked on this forum are people sharing information about what they've seen on stubhub. a lot of people are complaining about the ticket prices, yea, but their also asking questions and trying to get guidance on how to deal with the situation.

    No body here is promoting or even advertising stub hub, however, at this point in time - what other choice do people have? Like me, many were shut out of the 10C lottery and the tickets.com lottery... literally I couldn't get 1 seat to my name. Personally, I feel let down, and I've decided I'm just not going to travel to the show, barring some kind of miracle, as I don't do business on the secondary market unless i'm paying face price or below - and that's not going to happen until I'm dealing with some dude outside of the venue... and I wouldn't bother with that in a city like chicago at a sold out show, where these scalpers are sharks...

    however - if i hadn't made this decision - what other choice do I have for tickets???!!!??? frankly stubhub presents the best alternative as at least they gaurentee your money back if you get fucked...

    10C needs to be a little more open to the community here and let us discuss this secondary market and pool the intelligence so that people make educated decisions and purchases.

    otherwise, they're basically saying, "If you didn't win the lottery, you don't get to go to the show."

    pfffftttt.... win a lottery to go to a concert.... ridiculous....

    Pearl Jam needs to tour so that this supply/demand issue can come to a head and they can satisfy their fans. At this point, the band is being extremely selfish IMO.

    Sorry, this post will probably just get the thread locked. :fp:

    GREAT post. Pretty ridiculous that they don't even let people talk about stubhub or any of these other ticket sites when that is just about the only option for tickets to Wrigley at this point.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13
  • front spacerfront spacer IndianaPosts: 1,352
    shep" said:
    [quote="dmbolp"]Before this Stubhub thread get's locked too, no one is suggesting that anyone got to Stubhub now and buy a ticket for more than face value. We are suggesting you wait, and monitor prices, and eventually prices will be at face value. May take until day of show, but they will get there.

    That's the only way most of us can go to the show.

    This is what I find incredibly dumb on the part of 10C.

    Why aren't we allowed to talk about stub hub?

    Most of the threads that have been locked on this forum are people sharing information about what they've seen on stubhub. a lot of people are complaining about the ticket prices, yea, but their also asking questions and trying to get guidance on how to deal with the situation.

    No body here is promoting or even advertising stub hub, however, at this point in time - what other choice do people have? Like me, many were shut out of the 10C lottery and the tickets.com lottery... literally I couldn't get 1 seat to my name. Personally, I feel let down, and I've decided I'm just not going to travel to the show, barring some kind of miracle, as I don't do business on the secondary market unless i'm paying face price or below - and that's not going to happen until I'm dealing with some dude outside of the venue... and I wouldn't bother with that in a city like chicago at a sold out show, where these scalpers are sharks...

    however - if i hadn't made this decision - what other choice do I have for tickets???!!!??? frankly stubhub presents the best alternative as at least they gaurentee your money back if you get fucked...

    10C needs to be a little more open to the community here and let us discuss this secondary market and pool the intelligence so that people make educated decisions and purchases.

    otherwise, they're basically saying, "If you didn't win the lottery, you don't get to go to the show."

    pfffftttt.... win a lottery to go to a concert.... ridiculous....

    Pearl Jam needs to tour so that this supply/demand issue can come to a head and they can satisfy their fans. At this point, the band is being extremely selfish IMO.

    Sorry, this post will probably just get the thread locked. :fp:[/quote]


    Now you did it!!! :lol:

    You're right, though. What would make ticket prices drop more than an announced tour of 15-20 cities all around London and Chicago later this year? You'll have people saying "No way I'm paying that for Chicago when I can go to (insert city's name) a month or two later."

    THERE'S PANIC IN THE STREETS!!! :o
    Indy - 08.17.98
    Indy - 08.18.00
    Indy - 06.22.03
    Indy - 05.07.10
    EV StL - 07.01.11
    Alpine Valley - 09.03.11, 09.04.11
    ATL - 09.22.12
    EV Jax - 11.24.12
    Chicago - 07.19.13
    Pittsburgh - 10.11.13
    Coming Soon......
    Moline 10.17.14
    Milwaukee 10.20.14
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 124,166
    shep" said:


    otherwise, they're basically saying, "If you didn't win the lottery, you don't get to go to the show."

    pfffftttt.... win a lottery to go to a concert.... ridiculous....

    :
    alot score tix at the 2 presales,with the code and the public sale..
    there are like 3k tix for sale at secondary market and we all know alot of them are fake sales
    so 38k tix seems to sold to people want to go to the show..
    how many tix 10c had?4-5 k?

    the problem is there is no tour..if they anounce the fall dates together with wrigley,the prices for wrigley at secondary market will be face value already..

    we cant blame lottery for everything..
    10c had some fan club tix to sell.they did it ..to 10c memebrs..sold out as moist of the times.
    no matter the sale method
    the public sale would be the same..the scalpers would do the same job..
    fans would be looking for tix cos shut out..same as always

    so,isnt the problem this..just wonder..who the fuck has the rest 38k tix tickets that isnt in the secondary market..
    i tell you
    fans of this band..people want to see pj live
    we must realise,this band,is HUGE...and as long there is no big tours,people will travel to see them..
    10c had tix to sale,no matter the method the SAME number of people will score and the rest will shut out..
    lottery didnt change this analogy
    "....I'd rather be at Chicago Fishing Forum .."
  • RE4790RE4790 Posts: 448
    dimitrispearljam" said:


    there are like 3k tix for sale at secondary market and we all know alot of them are fake sales
    so 38k tix seems to sold to people want to go to the show..
    This is an assumption, not a fact. Based on history, 1000s will appear on the secondary market between now and July 19th. An interested buyer just needs to be patient and wait for a ticket they would actually want to buy to become available or wait for the inevitable ticket dump a few weeks before the show.
  • 8181 Please play hakuna matata in DetroitPosts: 58,276
    shep" said:
    [quote="dmbolp"]Before this Stubhub thread get's locked too, no one is suggesting that anyone got to Stubhub now and buy a ticket for more than face value. We are suggesting you wait, and monitor prices, and eventually prices will be at face value. May take until day of show, but they will get there.

    That's the only way most of us can go to the show.

    This is what I find incredibly dumb on the part of 10C.

    Why aren't we allowed to talk about stub hub?

    Most of the threads that have been locked on this forum are people sharing information about what they've seen on stubhub. a lot of people are complaining about the ticket prices, yea, but their also asking questions and trying to get guidance on how to deal with the situation.

    No body here is promoting or even advertising stub hub, however, at this point in time - what other choice do people have? Like me, many were shut out of the 10C lottery and the tickets.com lottery... literally I couldn't get 1 seat to my name. Personally, I feel let down, and I've decided I'm just not going to travel to the show, barring some kind of miracle, as I don't do business on the secondary market unless i'm paying face price or below - and that's not going to happen until I'm dealing with some dude outside of the venue... and I wouldn't bother with that in a city like chicago at a sold out show, where these scalpers are sharks...

    however - if i hadn't made this decision - what other choice do I have for tickets???!!!??? frankly stubhub presents the best alternative as at least they gaurentee your money back if you get fucked...

    10C needs to be a little more open to the community here and let us discuss this secondary market and pool the intelligence so that people make educated decisions and purchases.

    otherwise, they're basically saying, "If you didn't win the lottery, you don't get to go to the show."

    pfffftttt.... win a lottery to go to a concert.... ridiculous....

    Pearl Jam needs to tour so that this supply/demand issue can come to a
    head and they can satisfy their fans. At this point, the band is being extremely selfish IMO.

    Sorry, this post will probably just get the thread locked. :fp:[/quote]


    agreed. well said.
    81 is now off the air

    image
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 124,166
    edited February 2013
    RE4790" said:
    [quote="dimitrispearljam"]

    there are like 3k tix for sale at secondary market and we all know alot of them are fake sales
    so 38k tix seems to sold to people want to go to the show..
    This is an assumption, not a fact. Based on history, 1000s will appear on the secondary market between now and July 19th. An interested buyer just needs to be patient and wait for a ticket they would actually want to buy to become available or wait for the inevitable ticket dump a few weeks before the show.[/quote]
    i dont have to add something different about that..
    but all the rest thousands of tix went to whom??
    to people want to see the band,right?
    and the thing i dont get is this..

    fan club tix,...
    lets put numbers
    a fan club tix has 10 tic for sale
    100 fans try to get them..
    lottery,f-5,ticketmaster,by seniority,throw them in air and the tallest guys get them..
    whats the difference??
    only 10 will score them...cant be 11..
    10 of the 100

    the rest?..will try to score with the public sales..where the wolfs(scalpers),know the game better,and are hungry for extra cash
    Post edited by dimitrispearljam on
    "....I'd rather be at Chicago Fishing Forum .."
  • shep" said:
    Pearl Jam needs to tour so that this supply/demand issue can come to a head and they can satisfy their fans. At this point, the band is being extremely selfish IMO.
    Although this is really separate from the spirit of the thread, do people really feel this way? I have a hard time parsing this - the band should play whenever they want, not at the demands of others. It seems like you think they owe us something they have yet to pay. I hate sounding like the teacher's pet, but I spend far more time wishing I could give more back to the band than I do currently with my support, rather than wishing they'd give more to me.
  • 8181 Please play hakuna matata in DetroitPosts: 58,276
    The Stugots" said:
    [quote="shep"]Pearl Jam needs to tour so that this supply/demand issue can come to a head and they can satisfy their fans. At this point, the band is being extremely selfish IMO.
    Although this is really separate from the spirit of the thread, do people really feel this way? I have a hard time parsing this - the band should play whenever they want, not at the demands of others. It seems like you think they owe us something they have yet to pay. I hate sounding like the teacher's pet, but I spend far more time wishing I could give more back to the band than I do currently with my support, rather than wishing they'd give more to me.[/quote]

    I don't really care any more....but it sure seems like it would make some sense if they just annouced this magical mystery fall tour now so fans could decide where to go.
    81 is now off the air

    image
  • shepshep HoustonPosts: 5,266
    edited February 2013
    dimitrispearljam" said:
    [quote="shep"]

    otherwise, they're basically saying, "If you didn't win the lottery, you don't get to go to the show."

    pfffftttt.... win a lottery to go to a concert.... ridiculous....

    :
    alot score tix at the 2 presales,with the code and the public sale..
    there are like 3k tix for sale at secondary market and we all know alot of them are fake sales
    so 38k tix seems to sold to people want to go to the show..
    how many tix 10c had?4-5 k?

    the problem is there is no tour..if they anounce the fall dates together with wrigley,the prices for wrigley at secondary market will be face value already..

    we cant blame lottery for everything..
    10c had some fan club tix to sell.they did it ..to 10c memebrs..sold out as moist of the times.
    no matter the sale method
    the public sale would be the same..the scalpers would do the same job..
    fans would be looking for tix cos shut out..same as always

    so,isnt the problem this..just wonder..who the fuck has the rest 38k tix tickets that isnt in the secondary market..
    i tell you
    fans of this band..people want to see pj live
    we must realise,this band,is HUGE...and as long there is no big tours,people will travel to see them..
    10c had tix to sale,no matter the method the SAME number of people will score and the rest will shut out..
    lottery didnt change this analogy[/quote]

    just a quick clarification Dimi - because I think your greeklish might have missed a comparison I was making.

    I am not saying that every 10C member who put in for tickets was shut out because of a lottery...

    I was comparing the tickets.com public onsale to a "lottery" as well... because that's essentially what it was. People were chosen at "random" by their waiting room tool to purchase tickets... so essentially the only way to get tickets to this show - 10C or otherwise - was to win a lottery. I've heard some stories from people who won the tickets.com lottery 2 or 3 times, and actually got to try for a couple of sets of tickets... me, I didn't win it once.

    so just to be clear, I am not blaming 10C for anything - I know that 10C tickets are an occasional privilege of being a club member, not a birthright.
    Post edited by shep on
    Houston, Texas... Believe it or not, there are 7 million people here... must be a couple of fans who'd love to see you play.

    image
  • 81" said:
    [quote="The Stugots"][quote="shep"]Pearl Jam needs to tour so that this supply/demand issue can come to a head and they can satisfy their fans. At this point, the band is being extremely selfish IMO.
    Although this is really separate from the spirit of the thread, do people really feel this way? I have a hard time parsing this - the band should play whenever they want, not at the demands of others. It seems like you think they owe us something they have yet to pay. I hate sounding like the teacher's pet, but I spend far more time wishing I could give more back to the band than I do currently with my support, rather than wishing they'd give more to me.[/quote]

    I don't really care any more....but it sure seems like it would make some sense if they just annouced this magical mystery fall tour now so fans could decide where to go.[/quote]


    That would be nice. I get that they announced Wrigley with only one other show because they wanted to be sure that they sold out a huge stadium like that. Now that it is sold out and secondary prices are insane, it would make sense to announce the rest of the dates for this year. Oh well. Maybe we'll just end up standing on Waveland listening to the show.
    6/18/03, 5/17/06, 6/30/06, 8/5/07, 6/22/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 5/7/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 7/19/13, 11/21/13, 11/23/13, 11/24/13
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 124,166
    shep" said:


    just a quick clarification Dimi - because I think your greeklish might have missed a comparison I was making.

    I am not saying that every 10C member who put in for tickets was shut out because of a lottery...

    I was comparing the tickets.com public onsale to a "lottery" as well... because that's essentially what it was. People were chosen at "random" by their waiting room tool to purchase tickets... so essentially the only way to get tickets to this show - 10C or otherwise - was to win a lottery. I've heard some stories from people who won the tickets.com lottery 2 or 3 times, and actually got to try for a couple of sets of tickets... me, I didn't win it once.

    so just to be clear, I am not blaming 10C for anything - I know that 10C tickets are an occasional privilege of being a club member, not a birthright.
    my bad then..you know,i saw the word lotter and mixed the sales..
    and really..my friend..no..public sale wasnt a lottery..
    was an f-5 type system with no f5 cliking..and while u was waiting for 2 hours,some people know the game,they didnt even saw the waiting room,and checking out by putting their cc infos...
    or was lucky to call and get a line..
    that shitty cheating ,10c gave an end,by the new method of selling10c tix..
    "....I'd rather be at Chicago Fishing Forum .."
  • shepshep HoustonPosts: 5,266
    The Stugots" said:
    [quote="shep"]Pearl Jam needs to tour so that this supply/demand issue can come to a head and they can satisfy their fans. At this point, the band is being extremely selfish IMO.
    Although this is really separate from the spirit of the thread, do people really feel this way? I have a hard time parsing this - the band should play whenever they want, not at the demands of others. It seems like you think they owe us something they have yet to pay. I hate sounding like the teacher's pet, but I spend far more time wishing I could give more back to the band than I do currently with my support, rather than wishing they'd give more to me.[/quote]

    Really?

    You don't think that we as an audience supported them enough that they should give something back? A band that is supposedly all about their fans?

    Whether you like it or not, all of us, everyone in this forum financially supports the band through ticket sales, merch sales, music sales, our $40 annual donation... I don't even what to do the math on the amount of $ I've given to this band and the people they employ. I'm sure the number would make me puke.

    There are a lot of people across america very frustrated that they can't see this band live because of the touring practices they've engaged in the last couple of years - it's made the tickets extremely limited and the demand high...

    Why are they able to do this you ask? Because we financially supported them - we gave them our $, so that now they're comfortably off and don't need to play shows to continue their way of life...

    To me, I would say, after 3 years and 6 shows, from a band that is supposed to be legendary because of their live performances... it's time to give something back.
    Houston, Texas... Believe it or not, there are 7 million people here... must be a couple of fans who'd love to see you play.

    image
  • I disagree. If it bothered me that much about their touring practices (I laughed just saying that outloud) I'd stop supporting them. Thankfully the fact that after 21 years they've chosen to slow down and enjoy their lives is completely understood by me, everything is gravy from here on out.
  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 2,166
    We do not link to places with tickets other than face-value because we only support face-value. Please do not post links or suggestions to go to places that do not sell at face-value, thank you.
    "Well, as far as I know, music makes people happy. I know it makes me happy." -- Fats Domino
This discussion has been closed.