Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Anyone know where i can find the I wish I had some dope thread? THANKS...
Detroit 03, Toronto 03, Toledo 04, Kitchener 05, London 05, Cleveland 06, Detroit 06, Cincinnati 06, Chicago 07, Mansfield 08, EV Chicago 08, East Troy 11, Pensacola 12, EV Jax 12, Wrigley 13, Pittsburgh 13, Dallas 13, OKC 13, Detroit 14, Ft Lauderdale 16, Miami 16, Tampa 16, Jax 16, Sea 18
he makes great points....the same great points I've been making for years
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Some say steroids are a distasteful shortcut. Not so.
They actually allow athletes to work harder and more effectively, much like a good strength coach. Others claim performance-enhancers are unnatural, which in turn raises a question: What is natural, exactly?
Is it Tiger Woods, having a Lasik operation? Pitchers throwing harder after Tommy John surgery?
Players wearing tinted contact lenses?
The banned substance EPO boosts endurance by stimulating the production of oxygen-carrying red blood cells. So does altitude training, which is why American speedskaters reportedly prepare for international competition by sleeping in oxygen-deprived rooms. Does the latter have more integrity than the former?
Jacob Sullum, the author of "Saying Yes: In Defense of Drug Use" isn't so sure. Neither am I.
"Everybody ought to be able to use the same tools," Sullum said. "But I don't see what is different in principle between steroids and anything else artificial we do to change our abilities, be it working out, diet, the various medicines people take to recover from injuries."
To put things another way: Pam Anderson is an entertainer, same as Bonds. She has patently fake breasts, bouncy, silicone-filled bags that have given her an undeniable competitive advantage over her unenhanced wannabe starlet peers.
Oddly enough, no one is demanding an asterisk be placed next to her Playmate of the Year award.
The Risks are Unknown
With the possible exception of Canseco, nobody says performance-enhancing drugs are good for your health.
But that doesn't mean they're going to kill you, either.
First and foremost, steroids aren't evil. They're medical drugs, used to treat ailments such as a body wasting away from AIDS. And like most drugs, they have side effects.
In the short term, 'roids can cause acne. They've been linked to mood swings, heart disease and liver damage. They also can shrink the testicles. Yikes.
Beyond that, Yesalis told me, medical scientists simply don't understand the long-term effects of juicing. Lyle Alzado didn't die of 'roid rage. He died of brain lymphoma, a rare form of cancer. Can steroids be used safely? Or with an acceptable level of danger?
Maybe not. But no one knows for sure. Meanwhile, one thing seems clear: ban drugs, and athletes will continue to use them; allow drugs, and those same athletes will at least be able to juice under some sort of medical supervision.
Ask yourself: better to follow a 'roid regime designed by the shady likes of Greg Anderson? Or one put together by the Mayo Clinic?
"If you could regulate and control steroid use, maybe that would be the answer to some of the problems,"said Dr. Robert Ruhling, director of the George Mason University human performance laboratory. "But you would need some sort of medical review panel, since there are such things as unethical doctors."
True enough. Malpractice would be a risk. So would health problems. But remember: Elite athletes are willing put themselves in harm's way all the time and are allowed to do so. Boxers get punched in the head. Football linemen beef up to steer-like proportions, never mind the strain on their hearts and joints. Downhill skiers risk broken bones and worse.
In everyday life, potentially addictive prescription painkillers are a big deal; in sports, they're de rigueur.
"I'm in my 60s, and I've had three concussions," said Ruhling, a former college tennis player. "Each time, I was told to not do anything for six to eight weeks. Well, sometimes those quarterbacks get thrown back in the next week."
The Kids Will Be Alright
Athletes are role models. If they use steroids, our children will follow suit. Or so we're told.
Doug Abrams has doubts. A youth hockey coach and expert panelist at the University of Rhode Island's Center for Sports Parenting, he says teens juice for the same reason adults do.
Because it works.
"They want the same performance-enhancing effect," said Abrams, a law professor at the University of Missouri. "A chance to get a college athletic scholarship."
Looking to point fingers? Forget the likes of Brian Bosworth and Palmeiro. Think overzealous parents, increasingly professional youth leagues, a culture that prizes athletic achievement above just about everything else.
Besides, even if a kid takes steroids because he idolizes Bonds, that doesn't mean Bonds should have to refrain. The man can smoke. He can patronize a strip club. He can vote, pay taxes, see an R-rated movie.
"There are things that are appropriate for adults that aren't appropriate for children," Sullum said. "I guess athletes shouldn't be driving cars, either."
Go back to Anderson, her Maxim cover-girl peers, Hollywood starlets in general. Bodies by liposuction. Bee-stung lips pumped with Botox. Magazine cover portraits, Photoshopped to the nth degree.
Who has done more psychological damage to the youth of America? A few buffed-up sluggers? Or scores of waifish supermodels, driving teenage girls to anorexia and their mothers to the nearest plastic surgeon?
Maybe President Bush can scold the cast of "Desperate Housewives" during his next State of the Union Address. Perhaps Congress should subpoena Kate Moss.
"I don't understand why athletes get this burden of being role models that no other public figures have," Sullum said. "Why more of a role model than an actor or a scientist? Everybody ought to be moral, but being an athlete doesn't impose a special burden."
We're All Hypocrites
We pop recreational Viagra. We study for exams by popping Ritalin. We shed extra pounds with gastric bypass surgery, a grisly medical procedure rife with ghastly side effects (gallstones, anemia, pulmonary embolism). We enhance ourselves on a daily basis -- for performance, for fun, for petty vanity. Because, quite frankly, we can.
"It's the American way," Ruhling said. "If I want to be in shape today, I should have been in shape yesterday. If one is good, 10 will be a lot better."
Do as we say, sports world. Not as we already do.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
How about if I don't really "care" when say Bernard Pollard tears Brady's ACL or someone gets hit so hard I can't watch the replay then why should I pretend to care about doping? I say give me 120 mph fastballs and 683 foot homeruns. This whole idea of fair play and level playing fields is so compromised it's not even funny. Seriously, when we learn to play sports the first thing we do is learn how to play the game, the second thing we learn is how to break those rules so that we can win. How are you supposed to contain that mentality when it comes to PEDs, not to mention what is a PED really?
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rick1zoo2
between a rock and a dumb place Posts: 12,632
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Should performance enhancing drugs be legal for injury rehab?
I think players are using them for rehab. AP and Ray Lewis had injuries that five years ago took a year to heal from. Terrell Suggs tore his achilles tendon and was playing five months later. I find it hard to believe that sports medicine has advanced that much in a few short years.
Is that a bad thing or good thing if they used banned substances to heal?
You would need much stricter testing for active players and maybe a one month buffer period where a player stops using before they are allowed to play. But why not make it legal to use something that heals you?
for the record, MLB has basically never caught anyone with their testing program....some small fish, yeah.....but all the bombshells have been due to the SF Chronicle, the Miami New Times, McNamee, Radomsky, etc.
Bud's only legacy is as a stork with his head in the sand (up his ass?) until the heat was on high.
one more thought.....I don't have a huge problem with the HOF voter who won't vote for ANYONE from the era.....maddux, sure.....but there is not ONE hitter (not Thomas, not Griffey, not Bagwell, not Biggio, etc.) who we KNOW 100% was not using something......not one.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Comments
hell, yes. have you seen the money on the PGA? :?
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
pretty sure tiger doped ...
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/890 ... d-question
why does it pain you? because he's a celtics fan?
he makes great points....the same great points I've been making for years
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
pretty much, yeah
yeah he does...i hadn't even thought about peterson but i agree with simmons that he's clean...
or is he? :?
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ortCat=mlb
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
They actually allow athletes to work harder and more effectively, much like a good strength coach. Others claim performance-enhancers are unnatural, which in turn raises a question: What is natural, exactly?
Is it Tiger Woods, having a Lasik operation? Pitchers throwing harder after Tommy John surgery?
Players wearing tinted contact lenses?
The banned substance EPO boosts endurance by stimulating the production of oxygen-carrying red blood cells. So does altitude training, which is why American speedskaters reportedly prepare for international competition by sleeping in oxygen-deprived rooms. Does the latter have more integrity than the former?
Jacob Sullum, the author of "Saying Yes: In Defense of Drug Use" isn't so sure. Neither am I.
"Everybody ought to be able to use the same tools," Sullum said. "But I don't see what is different in principle between steroids and anything else artificial we do to change our abilities, be it working out, diet, the various medicines people take to recover from injuries."
To put things another way: Pam Anderson is an entertainer, same as Bonds. She has patently fake breasts, bouncy, silicone-filled bags that have given her an undeniable competitive advantage over her unenhanced wannabe starlet peers.
Oddly enough, no one is demanding an asterisk be placed next to her Playmate of the Year award.
The Risks are Unknown
With the possible exception of Canseco, nobody says performance-enhancing drugs are good for your health.
But that doesn't mean they're going to kill you, either.
First and foremost, steroids aren't evil. They're medical drugs, used to treat ailments such as a body wasting away from AIDS. And like most drugs, they have side effects.
In the short term, 'roids can cause acne. They've been linked to mood swings, heart disease and liver damage. They also can shrink the testicles. Yikes.
Beyond that, Yesalis told me, medical scientists simply don't understand the long-term effects of juicing. Lyle Alzado didn't die of 'roid rage. He died of brain lymphoma, a rare form of cancer. Can steroids be used safely? Or with an acceptable level of danger?
Maybe not. But no one knows for sure. Meanwhile, one thing seems clear: ban drugs, and athletes will continue to use them; allow drugs, and those same athletes will at least be able to juice under some sort of medical supervision.
Ask yourself: better to follow a 'roid regime designed by the shady likes of Greg Anderson? Or one put together by the Mayo Clinic?
"If you could regulate and control steroid use, maybe that would be the answer to some of the problems,"said Dr. Robert Ruhling, director of the George Mason University human performance laboratory. "But you would need some sort of medical review panel, since there are such things as unethical doctors."
True enough. Malpractice would be a risk. So would health problems. But remember: Elite athletes are willing put themselves in harm's way all the time and are allowed to do so. Boxers get punched in the head. Football linemen beef up to steer-like proportions, never mind the strain on their hearts and joints. Downhill skiers risk broken bones and worse.
In everyday life, potentially addictive prescription painkillers are a big deal; in sports, they're de rigueur.
"I'm in my 60s, and I've had three concussions," said Ruhling, a former college tennis player. "Each time, I was told to not do anything for six to eight weeks. Well, sometimes those quarterbacks get thrown back in the next week."
The Kids Will Be Alright
Athletes are role models. If they use steroids, our children will follow suit. Or so we're told.
Doug Abrams has doubts. A youth hockey coach and expert panelist at the University of Rhode Island's Center for Sports Parenting, he says teens juice for the same reason adults do.
Because it works.
"They want the same performance-enhancing effect," said Abrams, a law professor at the University of Missouri. "A chance to get a college athletic scholarship."
Looking to point fingers? Forget the likes of Brian Bosworth and Palmeiro. Think overzealous parents, increasingly professional youth leagues, a culture that prizes athletic achievement above just about everything else.
Besides, even if a kid takes steroids because he idolizes Bonds, that doesn't mean Bonds should have to refrain. The man can smoke. He can patronize a strip club. He can vote, pay taxes, see an R-rated movie.
"There are things that are appropriate for adults that aren't appropriate for children," Sullum said. "I guess athletes shouldn't be driving cars, either."
Go back to Anderson, her Maxim cover-girl peers, Hollywood starlets in general. Bodies by liposuction. Bee-stung lips pumped with Botox. Magazine cover portraits, Photoshopped to the nth degree.
Who has done more psychological damage to the youth of America? A few buffed-up sluggers? Or scores of waifish supermodels, driving teenage girls to anorexia and their mothers to the nearest plastic surgeon?
Maybe President Bush can scold the cast of "Desperate Housewives" during his next State of the Union Address. Perhaps Congress should subpoena Kate Moss.
"I don't understand why athletes get this burden of being role models that no other public figures have," Sullum said. "Why more of a role model than an actor or a scientist? Everybody ought to be moral, but being an athlete doesn't impose a special burden."
We're All Hypocrites
We pop recreational Viagra. We study for exams by popping Ritalin. We shed extra pounds with gastric bypass surgery, a grisly medical procedure rife with ghastly side effects (gallstones, anemia, pulmonary embolism). We enhance ourselves on a daily basis -- for performance, for fun, for petty vanity. Because, quite frankly, we can.
"It's the American way," Ruhling said. "If I want to be in shape today, I should have been in shape yesterday. If one is good, 10 will be a lot better."
Do as we say, sports world. Not as we already do.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
I mean, I could give two shits about papelbon but, again, who decides what is and isn't legal?
toradol certainly enhances (or allows) performance :?
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
^^^^^^^^
he do steroids, too.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
I'm shocked, I tell you :shock:
:roll:
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
I think players are using them for rehab. AP and Ray Lewis had injuries that five years ago took a year to heal from. Terrell Suggs tore his achilles tendon and was playing five months later. I find it hard to believe that sports medicine has advanced that much in a few short years.
Is that a bad thing or good thing if they used banned substances to heal?
You would need much stricter testing for active players and maybe a one month buffer period where a player stops using before they are allowed to play. But why not make it legal to use something that heals you?
for the record, MLB has basically never caught anyone with their testing program....some small fish, yeah.....but all the bombshells have been due to the SF Chronicle, the Miami New Times, McNamee, Radomsky, etc.
Bud's only legacy is as a stork with his head in the sand (up his ass?) until the heat was on high.
one more thought.....I don't have a huge problem with the HOF voter who won't vote for ANYONE from the era.....maddux, sure.....but there is not ONE hitter (not Thomas, not Griffey, not Bagwell, not Biggio, etc.) who we KNOW 100% was not using something......not one.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14