I'm disturbed by that too. The issue of rape is not even really attended to in their statements...it's almost like there is acceptance that this crime is going to happen and so we should just deal with that. No real attention is paid to it all. The focus is on further disempowering a victim by taking the autonomy of her body away for a second time...a second victimization...with little attention paid to the first victimization at all.
...
Don't any of these fucking assholes have daughters? Wives? Mothers???
Seriously? Because they are talking about the outcome of rape in relation to abortion that means they are ok with rape? It seems to me that a couple of you are getting all worked up about an imaginary scenario that doesn't actually exist. What would make you happy? That they scream for 30 minutes "RAPE IS BAD!!! RAPE IS BAD!!"
The DNC is making this about rape, they are twisting people's words and using it to their political advantage. And you have bought in to it. This has nothing to do with the act of rape itself. Pretty sure that everyone except rapists are against that. And I'd be willing to bet that even rapists don;t want it to happen to their mother, wife, daughter, sister, etc.
Well I think that when there is some desire to categorize rape as "legitimate" or not it shows that rape is at times dismissed and minimized. To categorize some rape as worse than others demonstrates a lack of understanding about the issue and the trauma associated with it. I think it's important that rape not be lost in this discussion, but it often is. If we want to prevent abortions connected with rape, let's focus on preventing the act that leads to that even needing to be a consideration. I think both sides twist this issue to their political advantage.
It's also important that many rapists do in fact rape their wives, daughters and sisters. The latest stats show that 93% of child victims are raped by someone they know (34% are family members) and 66% of adult victims know their attacker and it's often a weapon used in domestic abuse.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Seriously? Because they are talking about the outcome of rape in relation to abortion that means they are ok with rape? It seems to me that a couple of you are getting all worked up about an imaginary scenario that doesn't actually exist. What would make you happy? That they scream for 30 minutes "RAPE IS BAD!!! RAPE IS BAD!!"
The DNC is making this about rape, they are twisting people's words and using it to their political advantage. And you have bought in to it. This has nothing to do with the act of rape itself. Pretty sure that everyone except rapists are against that. And I'd be willing to bet that even rapists don;t want it to happen to their mother, wife, daughter, sister, etc.
...
No. It is because they are tossing in rape with casual sex or otherwise consentual sex.
And like I said, I understand the point being made... life created... God's intent... blah, blah., blah. It is the means that result in the pregnancy, in this specific case, Rape... that I personally take issue with. I don't speak for the DNC or Democrats or Liberals or anyone else. I am expressing my own personal opinions... just as Representative Mourdock is. I'm NOT saying he speaks for Republicans or Conservatives or the Anti-Abortion people. I'm calling him (and the people who share his opinion) an asshole.
I'm going to go out on a limb as express a completely unfounded and wildly speculative opinion and say... I bet if it were his wife or daughter that got pregnant due to a rape... he would let them have a say on what THEY would want to do.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,688
I'm not reading through this many pages.
However, to follow the logic of this stance, then it DOES stand to reason that IF conception is intended by God then the means of conception are intended as well. Cant get behind that.
This also brought to mind a question in regards to conception being intended. What then does this say about miscarriages? If at conception the "child" is intended to be born, why would some end through miscarriage? Seems fucked up to have a woman go through something so emotionally devastating as that.
It was my limited understanding that god is supposed to be loving?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
However, to follow the logic of this stance, then it DOES stand to reason that IF conception is intended by God then the means of conception are intended as well. Cant get behind that.
This also brought to mind a question in regards to conception being intended. What then does this say about miscarriages? If at conception the "child" is intended to be born, why would some end through miscarriage? Seems fucked up to have a woman go through something so emotionally devastating as that.
It was my limited understanding that god is supposed to be loving?
...
That is one of the points I have an issue with... trying to drag God into the political equation and sticking Him on one side. Same way Puff Daddy will drag Jesus and God into his victory at the Grammys. Bullshit in both scenarios.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
No. It is because they are tossing in rape with casual sex or otherwise consentual sex.
I don't think so. What makes you think so?
...
This:
RICHARD MOURDOCK: "The only exception I have for - to have an abortion is in that case of the life of the mother. I just - I've struggle with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize life is a gift from God and I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."
...
I never claimed he was Pro-Rape because no one other than sociopathic rapists are Pro-Rape... and I do not believe Rep. Mourdock is one of them.
I just believe that rape is a horrific crime and government's only role in it is to capture, prosecute and punish the criminal and seek justice for the victim... in any means she chooses. It is NOT God's doing. He has plenty of other things to do around the Universe than to help a rapist become a father.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
[
...
This:
RICHARD MOURDOCK: "The only exception I have for - to have an abortion is in that case of the life of the mother. I just - I've struggle with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize life is a gift from God and I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."
...
I never claimed he was Pro-Rape because no one other than sociopathic rapists are Pro-Rape... and I do not believe Rep. Mourdock is one of them.
I just believe that rape is a horrific crime and government's only role in it is to capture, prosecute and punish the criminal and seek justice for the victim... in any means she chooses. It is NOT God's doing. He has plenty of other things to do around the Universe than to help a rapist become a father.
I guess I'm not understanding you. I also don;t like bringing God into the discussion as it immediately turns off a lot of people like yourself when in reality the same discussion would exist whether or not you think God creates life or if life is just created. \
But I do not understand how you see it as making rape the same as consensual sex, etc.
So, you don;t want them imposing their beliefs/thoughts on you, but yours is just an opinion as well that you wish to impose on others.
How would his opinion be imposed on others? No one has ever suggested that we tie pro-lifers down and forcibly abort their fetuses...[/quote]
Again, pro-choice people are forgetting about the child. Not surprising though.[/quote]
There is no child. It is a fertilized egg, embryo, fetus. Not a child until it is born. And the anti-choice crowd forgets about the fully grown woman who has to live with a reminder of her violation. Because a fertilized egg is a gift from "god". give me a break. I'll take the actual person's side here every time. and if she wants to carry to to term. her choice. if she doesn't, her choice, too. I wouldn't impose my opinion on her, unlike those who think their views are mor important than those of the woman facing an unwanted pregnancy
I guess I'm not understanding you. I also don;t like bringing God into the discussion as it immediately turns off a lot of people like yourself when in reality the same discussion would exist whether or not you think God creates life or if life is just created. \
But I do not understand how you see it as making rape the same as consensual sex, etc.
...
That's okay... you're not the first person that doesn't understand me.
The thing is... I don't have a such a big problem with abortion, so to speak. I'm not a big fan of abortion. I think it is idiotic and wreckless for people to use abortion as birth control. I would hope that if a woman becomes pregnant, she chooses something other than abortion. But, it is not my place to decide for her... even if i think abortion is a poor choice. That is not my call to make... and I firmly believe it isn't the states call to make... or the churches call to make. It is her call. Abortion is a legal option... one of her choices.
...
Now, that being said... I can see a huge difference between a gal getting pregnant by her boyfriend or even on a one night stand. She had a conscious role in those scenarios.
Rape... does not even come close. She didn't have a choice... it was not under her control... she didn't have a say in the matter. The rape was forced upon her, against her will... striping her of her freedom to choose. It is completely different.
By Rep. Mourdock's account, he is taking away her decision in the case of rape, lessens the crime... and yes, it is a crime. Banging her boyfriend... not a crime. Banging some random dude on Spring Break... not a crime. The pregnancy as a result of a rape is a pregnancy as the result of the commission of a crime. Completely different, in my book. No grey area for me.
Post edited by Cosmo on
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
There is no child. It is a fertilized egg, embryo, fetus. Not a child until it is born. And the anti-choice crowd forgets about the fully grown woman who has to live with a reminder of her violation. Because a fertilized egg is a gift from "god". give me a break. I'll take the actual person's side here every time. and if she wants to carry to to term. her choice. if she doesn't, her choice, too. I wouldn't impose my opinion on her, unlike those who think their views are mor important than those of the woman facing an unwanted pregnancy
thank you!
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
So, you don;t want them imposing their beliefs/thoughts on you, but yours is just an opinion as well that you wish to impose on others.
How would his opinion be imposed on others? No one has ever suggested that we tie pro-lifers down and forcibly abort their fetuses...
Again, pro-choice people are forgetting about the child. Not surprising though.[/quote]
There is no child. It is a fertilized egg, embryo, fetus. Not a child until it is born. And the anti-choice crowd forgets about the fully grown woman who has to live with a reminder of her violation. Because a fertilized egg is a gift from "god". give me a break. I'll take the actual person's side here every time. and if she wants to carry to to term. her choice. if she doesn't, her choice, too. I wouldn't impose my opinion on her, unlike those who think their views are mor important than those of the woman facing an unwanted pregnancy[/quote]
Bravo thats what i would like for all people to adhere to leave the choice to be made by the victim and only the victim period ..........
but really Romney :? why would you post that in this thread?
Is that not off topic?
is this not one of the dozen or so threads not about Romney?
Maybe you confused threads like I do sometimes
no, it is not. Romney's flip flopping on this issue and his support for this man is paramount to this discussion.
exactly what i was trying to say. thanks hugh!
romney is the nominee. he is the leader of the republican party. romney can dismiss his support for this guy if he wants to. but he doesn't. he made ads for 2 candidates, this man was one of them. that tells me all i need to know about romney. and to try to downplay how romney is supporting this guy speaks volumes about some of the power hungry republicans out there. they turned their backs on akin for what he said, but then they realized how integral an akin win would be for them to win the senate so they are throwing support behind him again. same thing with this guy. they will overlook any conflicts of interest or offensive rhetoric if it helps their chances to win the senate.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
but really Romney :? why would you post that in this thread?
Is that not off topic?
is this not one of the dozen or so threads not about Romney?
Maybe you confused threads like I do sometimes
no, it is not. Romney's flip flopping on this issue and his support for this man is paramount to this discussion.
exactly what i was trying to say. thanks hugh!
romney is the nominee. he is the leader of the republican party. romney can dismiss his support for this guy if he wants to. but he doesn't. he made ads for 2 candidates, this man was one of them. that tells me all i need to know about romney. and to try to downplay how romney is supporting this guy speaks volumes about some of the power hungry republicans out there. they turned their backs on akin for what he said, but then they realized how integral an akin win would be for them to win the senate so they are throwing support behind him again. same thing with this guy. they will overlook any conflicts of interest or offensive rhetoric if it helps their chances to win the senate.
Again, Romney's stance is necessarily the Mormon Church's stance. There is no mystery when it comes to where he stands and what he will try to do if he becomes president.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Again, pro-choice people are forgetting about the child. Not surprising though.
...
Tell you what... we'll make a deal.
When the Anti-Abortion crew starts caring and providing for the mother and her child that need financial assistance after the fetus is born into this world... then, I, as a Pro-Choice advocate, will support the rights of the unborn.
Deal?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
a zygote is not a child. an embryo can not survive on it's own outside the mother's body, so it is not a child. it is not physiologially equipped to do so. if anything, it acts as a parasite since it is 100% dependent on the mom. if the mom dies, the fetus dies, unless it is far enough along to be kept alive by machines.
an embryo, a very young fetus, they are not people, and should not be given the rights of personhood until they reach a certain age in utero. especially at the expense of the rights of the mother, who is a real and mature person.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
And in considering all this I think it's important to consider the impact of a rape on a survivor and the aftermath that she and a potential child will face. Victims are:
3 times more likely to suffer from depression
6 times more likely to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder
13 times more likely to abuse alcohol
26 times more likely to abuse drugs
4 times more likely to contemplate suicide
I don't know if its been studied, so I don't have information on how those rates are impacted should a survivor become pregnant as a result of rape and have the choice of how to proceed with the pregnancy taken away. We know that empowerment spurs healing while disempowerment stunts healing. It has to be a choice. All of the a above can impact the ability to bond with a child and parent. The environment the child is born into shouldnt be discounted. That's not to say that a survivor can't be a wonderful and loving mother. Many that make that choice are.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Again, pro-choice people are forgetting about the child. Not surprising though.
...
Tell you what... we'll make a deal.
When the Anti-Abortion crew starts caring and providing for the mother and her child that need financial assistance after the fetus is born into this world... then, I, as a Pro-Choice advocate, will support the rights of the unborn.
Deal?
Haha, the usual bs response. Deflect. And you are lumping a whole lot of people together there and making a huge assumption as well.
a zygote is not a child. an embryo can not survive on it's own outside the mother's body, so it is not a child. it is not physiologially equipped to do so. if anything, it acts as a parasite since it is 100% dependent on the mom. if the mom dies, the fetus dies, unless it is far enough along to be kept alive by machines.
an embryo, a very young fetus, they are not people, and should not be given the rights of personhood until they reach a certain age in utero. especially at the expense of the rights of the mother, who is a real and mature person.
Again, your opinion. Without a specific act to stop that life it will be born a child. That's my opinion.
And in considering all this I think it's important to consider the impact of a rape on a survivor and the aftermath that she and a potential child will face. Victims are:
3 times more likely to suffer from depression
6 times more likely to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder
13 times more likely to abuse alcohol
26 times more likely to abuse drugs
4 times more likely to contemplate suicide
I don't know if its been studied, so I don't have information on how those rates are impacted should a survivor become pregnant as a result of rape and have the choice of how to proceed with the pregnancy taken away. We know that empowerment spurs healing while disempowerment stunts healing. It has to be a choice. All of the a above can impact the ability to bond with a child and parent. The environment the child is born into shouldnt be discounted. That's not to say that a survivor can't be a wonderful and loving mother. Many that make that choice are.
"Make that choice."
For those women that choose to assume the burden that was violently placed upon them and wish to have the child... good for them.
For those that did not wish for the burden and choose abortion so that they might be able to try and continue on the path they had selected for themselves before the violent intrusion... good for them.
I support either woman and truly regret that women have to deal with rape trauma inflicted upon them from one of my gender. I apologize for the conduct of these men and support any measures we can put in place to assist them with efforts to deal with healing.
There is a wide range of value systems on this planet. I find it troubling that some can so easily frown upon the values of some while righteously working to impose their values upon others.
And in considering all this I think it's important to consider the impact of a rape on a survivor and the aftermath that she and a potential child will face. Victims are:
3 times more likely to suffer from depression
6 times more likely to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder
13 times more likely to abuse alcohol
26 times more likely to abuse drugs
4 times more likely to contemplate suicide
I don't know if its been studied, so I don't have information on how those rates are impacted should a survivor become pregnant as a result of rape and have the choice of how to proceed with the pregnancy taken away. We know that empowerment spurs healing while disempowerment stunts healing. It has to be a choice. All of the a above can impact the ability to bond with a child and parent. The environment the child is born into shouldnt be discounted. That's not to say that a survivor can't be a wonderful and loving mother. Many that make that choice are.
"Make that choice."
For those women that choose to assume the burden that was violently placed upon them and wish to have the child... good for them.
For those that did not wish for the burden and choose abortion so that they might be able to try and continue on the path they had selected for themselves before the violent intrusion... good for them.
I support either woman and truly regret that women have to deal with rape trauma inflicted upon them from one of my gender. I apologize for the conduct of these men and support any measures we can put in place to assist them with efforts to deal with healing.
There is a wide range of value systems on this planet. I find it troubling that some can so easily frown upon the values of some while righteously working to impose their values upon others.
The choice is so important. The survivor has had her body objectified once by the rape...it shouldn't be objectified again by having the choice taken away. Being re-victimized will add to the survivor's trauma and impact her ability to bond and attach with the baby...which dramatically impacts the development of the child. The life of the child after birth has to be considered too.
We all play a role in creating a culture that doesn't tolerate sexual violence...men and women. With the number of rapes so high and the numbers of abortions reportedly connected to rape so low...it seems like the political focus is shifted in the wrong direction.
Men (and women) like you and pretty much everyone on this thread who are supportive of survivors and their needs do so much to help survivors with their healing
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I am pro choice. But I keep hearing all this stuff about "it's not a child if it can't live on its own independent of its mother". My girls couldn't, and still can't live independent of us, and they are 6 and 3.
a newborn is a human, but if its mother dies, it's dead. unless someone else takes care of it.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I am pro choice. But I keep hearing all this stuff about "it's not a child if it can't live on its own independent of its mother". My girls couldn't, and still can't live independent of us, and they are 6 and 3.
a newborn is a human, but if its mother dies, it's dead. unless someone else takes care of it.
The difference is that only the mother's body can take care of a previable fetus. Someone else could take of your children.
"If I have to listen to one more gray-faced man with a two-dollar hair cut explain to me what rape is, I'm gonna lose my mind."
No male ever should ever have an opinion on this other than holy shit, rape is horrible and should be punishable to the full extent of the law. Everything else just makes you look stupid.
a zygote is not a child. an embryo can not survive on it's own outside the mother's body, so it is not a child. it is not physiologially equipped to do so. if anything, it acts as a parasite since it is 100% dependent on the mom. if the mom dies, the fetus dies, unless it is far enough along to be kept alive by machines.
an embryo, a very young fetus, they are not people, and should not be given the rights of personhood until they reach a certain age in utero. especially at the expense of the rights of the mother, who is a real and mature person.
Again, your opinion. Without a specific act to stop that life it will be born a child. That's my opinion.
Actually, a lot of them miscarry. Miscarriage rates are quite high during the early stages of pregnancy (75% in the first 2 weeks, 31% in weeks 3 - 4, 10% in weeks 5 - 6, and so on) because fetuses that age aren't really viable life, and it's a crap shoot as to whether or not it will manage to become viable.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Again, your opinion. Without a specific act to stop that life it will be born a child. That's my opinion.
my opinion is based on science and physiology.
a zygote will not develop into a human being if not for the mother's body allowing it to do so. it is not a person. it is a collection of cells. it is not a human being. the potential to become a human being is there, but it is not a human being yet.
by your rationale every woman who has had an abortion, even in the first trimester, is a murderer. every woman who has used plan b is a murderer, and every woman who took plan b as a precaution after sex and did not have a fertilized egg is an attempted murderer...
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
these are zygotes. they are not human beings yet. they have the potential to become human beings, but they aren't yet. do you know how many of these are lost every day simply by natural causes?
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Comments
It's also important that many rapists do in fact rape their wives, daughters and sisters. The latest stats show that 93% of child victims are raped by someone they know (34% are family members) and 66% of adult victims know their attacker and it's often a weapon used in domestic abuse.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
No. It is because they are tossing in rape with casual sex or otherwise consentual sex.
And like I said, I understand the point being made... life created... God's intent... blah, blah., blah. It is the means that result in the pregnancy, in this specific case, Rape... that I personally take issue with. I don't speak for the DNC or Democrats or Liberals or anyone else. I am expressing my own personal opinions... just as Representative Mourdock is. I'm NOT saying he speaks for Republicans or Conservatives or the Anti-Abortion people. I'm calling him (and the people who share his opinion) an asshole.
I'm going to go out on a limb as express a completely unfounded and wildly speculative opinion and say... I bet if it were his wife or daughter that got pregnant due to a rape... he would let them have a say on what THEY would want to do.
Hail, Hail!!!
However, to follow the logic of this stance, then it DOES stand to reason that IF conception is intended by God then the means of conception are intended as well. Cant get behind that.
This also brought to mind a question in regards to conception being intended. What then does this say about miscarriages? If at conception the "child" is intended to be born, why would some end through miscarriage? Seems fucked up to have a woman go through something so emotionally devastating as that.
It was my limited understanding that god is supposed to be loving?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
That is one of the points I have an issue with... trying to drag God into the political equation and sticking Him on one side. Same way Puff Daddy will drag Jesus and God into his victory at the Grammys. Bullshit in both scenarios.
Hail, Hail!!!
Again, pro-choice people are forgetting about the child. Not surprising though.
I don't think so. What makes you think so?
This:
RICHARD MOURDOCK: "The only exception I have for - to have an abortion is in that case of the life of the mother. I just - I've struggle with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize life is a gift from God and I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."
...
I never claimed he was Pro-Rape because no one other than sociopathic rapists are Pro-Rape... and I do not believe Rep. Mourdock is one of them.
I just believe that rape is a horrific crime and government's only role in it is to capture, prosecute and punish the criminal and seek justice for the victim... in any means she chooses. It is NOT God's doing. He has plenty of other things to do around the Universe than to help a rapist become a father.
Hail, Hail!!!
I guess I'm not understanding you. I also don;t like bringing God into the discussion as it immediately turns off a lot of people like yourself when in reality the same discussion would exist whether or not you think God creates life or if life is just created. \
But I do not understand how you see it as making rape the same as consensual sex, etc.
Again, pro-choice people are forgetting about the child. Not surprising though.[/quote]
There is no child. It is a fertilized egg, embryo, fetus. Not a child until it is born. And the anti-choice crowd forgets about the fully grown woman who has to live with a reminder of her violation. Because a fertilized egg is a gift from "god". give me a break. I'll take the actual person's side here every time. and if she wants to carry to to term. her choice. if she doesn't, her choice, too. I wouldn't impose my opinion on her, unlike those who think their views are mor important than those of the woman facing an unwanted pregnancy
Nope, they can live by their own beliefs, I'll live by mine
That's okay... you're not the first person that doesn't understand me.
The thing is... I don't have a such a big problem with abortion, so to speak. I'm not a big fan of abortion. I think it is idiotic and wreckless for people to use abortion as birth control. I would hope that if a woman becomes pregnant, she chooses something other than abortion. But, it is not my place to decide for her... even if i think abortion is a poor choice. That is not my call to make... and I firmly believe it isn't the states call to make... or the churches call to make. It is her call. Abortion is a legal option... one of her choices.
...
Now, that being said... I can see a huge difference between a gal getting pregnant by her boyfriend or even on a one night stand. She had a conscious role in those scenarios.
Rape... does not even come close. She didn't have a choice... it was not under her control... she didn't have a say in the matter. The rape was forced upon her, against her will... striping her of her freedom to choose. It is completely different.
By Rep. Mourdock's account, he is taking away her decision in the case of rape, lessens the crime... and yes, it is a crime. Banging her boyfriend... not a crime. Banging some random dude on Spring Break... not a crime. The pregnancy as a result of a rape is a pregnancy as the result of the commission of a crime. Completely different, in my book. No grey area for me.
Hail, Hail!!!
thank you!
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Again, pro-choice people are forgetting about the child. Not surprising though.[/quote]
There is no child. It is a fertilized egg, embryo, fetus. Not a child until it is born. And the anti-choice crowd forgets about the fully grown woman who has to live with a reminder of her violation. Because a fertilized egg is a gift from "god". give me a break. I'll take the actual person's side here every time. and if she wants to carry to to term. her choice. if she doesn't, her choice, too. I wouldn't impose my opinion on her, unlike those who think their views are mor important than those of the woman facing an unwanted pregnancy[/quote]
Bravo thats what i would like for all people to adhere to leave the choice to be made by the victim and only the victim period ..........
romney is the nominee. he is the leader of the republican party. romney can dismiss his support for this guy if he wants to. but he doesn't. he made ads for 2 candidates, this man was one of them. that tells me all i need to know about romney. and to try to downplay how romney is supporting this guy speaks volumes about some of the power hungry republicans out there. they turned their backs on akin for what he said, but then they realized how integral an akin win would be for them to win the senate so they are throwing support behind him again. same thing with this guy. they will overlook any conflicts of interest or offensive rhetoric if it helps their chances to win the senate.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Tell you what... we'll make a deal.
When the Anti-Abortion crew starts caring and providing for the mother and her child that need financial assistance after the fetus is born into this world... then, I, as a Pro-Choice advocate, will support the rights of the unborn.
Deal?
Hail, Hail!!!
a zygote is not a child. an embryo can not survive on it's own outside the mother's body, so it is not a child. it is not physiologially equipped to do so. if anything, it acts as a parasite since it is 100% dependent on the mom. if the mom dies, the fetus dies, unless it is far enough along to be kept alive by machines.
an embryo, a very young fetus, they are not people, and should not be given the rights of personhood until they reach a certain age in utero. especially at the expense of the rights of the mother, who is a real and mature person.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
3 times more likely to suffer from depression
6 times more likely to suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder
13 times more likely to abuse alcohol
26 times more likely to abuse drugs
4 times more likely to contemplate suicide
I don't know if its been studied, so I don't have information on how those rates are impacted should a survivor become pregnant as a result of rape and have the choice of how to proceed with the pregnancy taken away. We know that empowerment spurs healing while disempowerment stunts healing. It has to be a choice. All of the a above can impact the ability to bond with a child and parent. The environment the child is born into shouldnt be discounted. That's not to say that a survivor can't be a wonderful and loving mother. Many that make that choice are.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Haha, the usual bs response. Deflect. And you are lumping a whole lot of people together there and making a huge assumption as well.
Again, your opinion. Without a specific act to stop that life it will be born a child. That's my opinion.
"Make that choice."
For those women that choose to assume the burden that was violently placed upon them and wish to have the child... good for them.
For those that did not wish for the burden and choose abortion so that they might be able to try and continue on the path they had selected for themselves before the violent intrusion... good for them.
I support either woman and truly regret that women have to deal with rape trauma inflicted upon them from one of my gender. I apologize for the conduct of these men and support any measures we can put in place to assist them with efforts to deal with healing.
There is a wide range of value systems on this planet. I find it troubling that some can so easily frown upon the values of some while righteously working to impose their values upon others.
We all play a role in creating a culture that doesn't tolerate sexual violence...men and women. With the number of rapes so high and the numbers of abortions reportedly connected to rape so low...it seems like the political focus is shifted in the wrong direction.
Men (and women) like you and pretty much everyone on this thread who are supportive of survivors and their needs do so much to help survivors with their healing
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
a newborn is a human, but if its mother dies, it's dead. unless someone else takes care of it.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The difference is that only the mother's body can take care of a previable fetus. Someone else could take of your children.
"If I have to listen to one more gray-faced man with a two-dollar hair cut explain to me what rape is, I'm gonna lose my mind."
No male ever should ever have an opinion on this other than holy shit, rape is horrible and should be punishable to the full extent of the law. Everything else just makes you look stupid.
a zygote will not develop into a human being if not for the mother's body allowing it to do so. it is not a person. it is a collection of cells. it is not a human being. the potential to become a human being is there, but it is not a human being yet.
by your rationale every woman who has had an abortion, even in the first trimester, is a murderer. every woman who has used plan b is a murderer, and every woman who took plan b as a precaution after sex and did not have a fertilized egg is an attempted murderer...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
these are zygotes. they are not human beings yet. they have the potential to become human beings, but they aren't yet. do you know how many of these are lost every day simply by natural causes?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."