The basic thing I don't get... How is God even in this equation?
Example: If God DID intend this pregnancy to happen... doesn't that mean that God is also involved with setting up the rape scenario?
...
If so... doesn't that make God... well, kind of an asshole?
in short yes it would...
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
0
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
riddle: I take a position on nothing so I can argue everything.
who am I?
...
That guy from 'Silence Of The Lambs'... not whatizname... the 'It take position nothing in... or it gets the hose again' guy?
I like to call him "the tucker" -
Pandora, it sounds like your sister WAS unselfish and that some beauty of life came from something horrific...but not everyone is that magnamimous. For some, it would be unfathomable, even unbearable, to carry within the product of violence, overpowering, and anger.
(also, may I say that there *are* other things/experiences/people etc. in life that teach us who and what are valuable - and not. I believe we're inherently about I-me-mine and are capable of moving past that when necessary. It doesn't take a child to get there.)
funny how you on the right are all about "get government out of my life" and "protecting the rights of the unborn", but what about the rights of the living, out of the womb, mother? why would rights of a fetus trump the rights of the woman carrying it?? this is the very definition of having government in your life.
This is something I really don't understand. First, how can you force your own moral and religious beliefs about abortion on another person? How are you personally affected if a woman you don't even know has an abortion? Second, if you live by those moral convictions, how can you support the abandonment of children after they are born? If you truly believe that life is sacred, why do we see so many children abandoned and abusend? Neglected and mistreated? Where is the outrage about children in high school that read on a 2nd grade level? It seems far easier to give lip service to the sacredness of life but then conveniently dismiss the child once it actually arrives.
Are you saying 'me' when you say 'you' ?
Cause that would be off base... I'm pro choice.
I pride myself though on trying to see and feel both sides of issues.
I will say that those defending new life, the right to live, are passionate.
It hasn't worked too well for them though forcing their beliefs on others
has it? Abortion is legal with millons of lives taken.
As far as how it affects them personally? How does it effect you when someone dies?
The unborn is a gift, innocent life.
Your other questions seem to point a finger at leaders letting down children
once they are here. Who can argue that? And I'm learning quite a bit
about the apathy in our social services which is a whole other stupid story.
No I was referencing the collective you, not you, Pandora. I agree, I see both sides as well but it is not for me to force others to do as I do.
As for our social service system, it is, undoubtedly, a hot mess. However, I disagree that it is apathy - at least not on the part of the social worker. Apathy on the part of our leaders, hell yes.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
The basic thing I don't get... How is God even in this equation?
Example: If God DID intend this pregnancy to happen... doesn't that mean that God is also involved with setting up the rape scenario?
...
If so... doesn't that make God... well, kind of an asshole?
in short yes it would...
...
So, do people really think this is God's intent... to have rapes occur... so He can watch? (You know... because God sees all and is always watching and stuff...).
...
Because... to me... and I'm not God... I'm thinking the RAPIST has a lot to do with it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
The basic thing I don't get... How is God even in this equation?
Example: If God DID intend this pregnancy to happen... doesn't that mean that God is also involved with setting up the rape scenario?
...
If so... doesn't that make God... well, kind of an asshole?
in short yes it would...
...
So, do people really think this is God's intent... to have rapes occur... so He can watch? (You know... because God sees all and is always watching and stuff...).
...
Because... to me... and I'm not God... I'm thinking the RAPIST has a lot to do with it.
it makes it sound like they mean god intends rape and the child being born.. it's a terrible thing to think let alone say. It's an immoral thing to say thats for sure especially when ok well a baby being born is a natural great thing to occur but not when you take into the consideration that is was born rape. Makes me feel sad for the baby, the mother and the family.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
No doubt...but I like to UNDERSTAND why someone thinks differently than I do and cincy has expressed his side pretty well. That's all I really want - not to change anyone's mind - not that it would happen anyway
Sometimes it happens; I know people who have changed their minds about very profound issues. I've changed my own mind about certain things myself (not on this issue, but others... I actually used to be a lot more right-thinking in terms of economic policy and some other issues, for instance) ... All I hope for is that those who think that abortions should be ILLEGAL would rethink their position. It really really bothers me that some people think it shouldn't be a choice that women can make about their own bodies if they need to. I don't think that debate is futile at all, and therefore, ANY argument relating to abortion isn't futile, since it is all relevant to how people approach the subject.
I grew up in a southern baptist household, all the way republican (although my parents on occasion did vote for a Democrat) and I worked in the financial sector for about 10 years so was a right leaning moderate. I have drastically changed my opinions over the course of the last 10 years, much to my family's dismay at times So yes, it can happen. However, I think a person has to have some profound experience, as I did, to change that position. Very few of us are open minded enough to accept another position on careful thought alone. Our emotions are to invested, as with this topic. Not futile, unlikely
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
...
So, do people really think this is God's intent... to have rapes occur... so He can watch? (You know... because God sees all and is always watching and stuff...).
...
Because... to me... and I'm not God... I'm thinking the RAPIST has a lot to do with it.
it makes it sound like they mean god intends rape and the child being born.. it's a terrible thing to think let alone say. It's an immoral thing to say thats for sure especially when ok well a baby being born is a natural great thing to occur but not when you take into the consideration that is was born rape. Makes me feel sad for the baby, the mother and the family.
And we're not just vessels for the unborn...I mean the choice to create life is a wonderful thing...but I am so much more than my uterus. :wave:
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
it makes it sound like they mean god intends rape and the child being born.. it's a terrible thing to think let alone say. It's an immoral thing to say thats for sure especially when ok well a baby being born is a natural great thing to occur but not when you take into the consideration that is was born rape. Makes me feel sad for the baby, the mother and the family.
...
You know... I sort of get his point (except, the part where he places responsibility on God) about a life being created.
But, unless he is willing to fork over taxpayer dollars to help the mother and child work through the hardships both are going to face downstream in life... he needs to shut the fuck up about what the victims should do until the day he becomes pregnant by a rapist.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
My opinion is that I do not like the idea of abortion as a form of birth control. For rape, incest, life of mother I agree abortion should be an option.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
My opinion is that I do not like the idea of abortion as a form of birth control. For rape, incest, life of mother I agree abortion should be an option.
...
I believe ALL of us agree that using abortion as birth control is idiotic, immoral and just plain wrong.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
My opinion is that I do not like the idea of abortion as a form of birth control. For rape, incest, life of mother I agree abortion should be an option.
...
I believe ALL of us agree that using abortion as birth control is idiotic, immoral and just plain wrong.
I am sure there are people who do not. Just saying. Maybe not on here, but there are.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
I am sure there are people who do not. Just saying. Maybe not on here, but there are.
...
Agree.
I think those people need to be educated in the use of other means of birth control... be it, the pill, condoms, whatever. That's why I would much rather pay to get them on the pill... than have them go through an abortion. They fuck. Thay have been fucking and are still going to fuck... there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about that... the focus **should** be on preventing the pregnancy in the first place, thus, nullifying the need for an abortion.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
My opinion is that I do not like the idea of abortion as a form of birth control. For rape, incest, life of mother I agree abortion should be an option.
Using it as a form of birth control is not at all the only alternative use after using it for rape, incest, and life of the mother... There are VERY few women who use abortion as a form of birth control. Surely no one thinks that women LIKE getting abortions??
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
My opinion is that I do not like the idea of abortion as a form of birth control. For rape, incest, life of mother I agree abortion should be an option.
Using it as a form of birth control is not at all the only alternative use after using it for rape, incest, and life of the mother... There are VERY few women who use abortion as a form of birth control. Surely no one thinks that women LIKE getting abortions??
I knew a girl, and actually had relations with (before I knew this), who had 6 abortions. Hated contraceptives. Just got abortions if she needed to get one.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
My opinion is that I do not like the idea of abortion as a form of birth control. For rape, incest, life of mother I agree abortion should be an option.
Using it as a form of birth control is not at all the only alternative use after using it for rape, incest, and life of the mother... There are VERY few women who use abortion as a form of birth control. Surely no one thinks that women LIKE getting abortions??
I knew a girl, and actually had relations with (before I knew this), who had 6 abortions. Hated contraceptives. Just got abortions if she needed to get one.
...
Wow. That is fierce. It's like if I hated toothpaste so I got root canals instead.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I knew a girl, and actually had relations with (before I knew this), who had 6 abortions. Hated contraceptives. Just got abortions if she needed to get one.
...
Wow. That is fierce. It's like if I hated toothpaste so I got root canals instead.
yeah, kinda fucked up.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Someone is raped every 2 minutes in the US. Why aren't we more outraged by this? Why isn't our focus and energy being put into sexual violence prevention efforts, instead of worrying about preventing survivors from terminating pregnancies that might result from a rape?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
I pride myself though on trying to see and feel both sides of issues.
I will say that those defending new life, the right to live, are passionate.
It hasn't worked too well for them though forcing their beliefs on others
has it? Abortion is legal with millons of lives taken.
As far as how it affects them personally? How does it effect you when someone dies?
The unborn is a gift, innocent life.
Your other questions seem to point a finger at leaders letting down children
once they are here. Who can argue that? And I'm learning quite a bit
about the apathy in our social services which is a whole other stupid story.
No I was referencing the collective you, not you, Pandora. I agree, I see both sides as well but it is not for me to force others to do as I do.
As for our social service system, it is, undoubtedly, a hot mess. However, I disagree that it is apathy - at least not on the part of the social worker. Apathy on the part of our leaders, hell yes.
Using it as a form of birth control is not at all the only alternative use after using it for rape, incest, and life of the mother... There are VERY few women who use abortion as a form of birth control. Surely no one thinks that women LIKE getting abortions??
From RAINN:
"In 2004-2005, 64,080 women were raped.8 According to medical reports, the incidence of pregnancy for one-time unprotected sexual intercourse is 5%. By applying the pregnancy rate to 64,080 women, RAINN estimates that there were 3,204 pregnancies as a result of rape during that period."
It seems like if we focus on preventing rape in the first place, we could probably also prevent a good number of unintended pregnancies and possible abortions.
I always wonder how much the view that a woman's body's ultimate purpose is to be a vessel for the unborn ties into the view that a woman's body can be used as a rapist sees fit. One objectification linked to the next creating a culture in which a woman's autonomy to her own body is in question?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
My choice to have an abortion at age 16, I feel is very much a part of my path of learning.
The person that I am today, looking back over my life, taking all the experiences
that brought me to a spiritual place, I feel this one crucial decision is integral.
I could have chosen life.
I didn't realize the mistake I was making in the big picture
that is all life, all life connected .
Revelation comes from the hardest times, from tests we fail, from forks in the road.
I am ashamed to say convenience was my motive. And I knew not what I did...
but I do now.
my 2 cent...
how much of a dumb stupid fu(k do you have to be? how clueless can these guys be?
i mean they convince the populous to vote them into a cushy "job" where most everything is free, haircuts to BJs, they can work as little as they want, employ huge staffs, get paid well, receive benefits for life, pensions and etc and then go on TV and say things that railroad the gravy train. these guys really must be the complete and total morons...any wonder why this country is where it is?
I pride myself though on trying to see and feel both sides of issues.
I will say that those defending new life, the right to live, are passionate.
It hasn't worked too well for them though forcing their beliefs on others
has it? Abortion is legal with millons of lives taken.
As far as how it affects them personally? How does it effect you when someone dies?
The unborn is a gift, innocent life.
Your other questions seem to point a finger at leaders letting down children
once they are here. Who can argue that? And I'm learning quite a bit
about the apathy in our social services which is a whole other stupid story.
No I was referencing the collective you, not you, Pandora. I agree, I see both sides as well but it is not for me to force others to do as I do.
As for our social service system, it is, undoubtedly, a hot mess. However, I disagree that it is apathy - at least not on the part of the social worker. Apathy on the part of our leaders, hell yes.
maybe it is here where I live
What is the typical case load of the social workers where you live? When you are responsible for hundreds of cases that must monitored and checked on each month it can get overwhelming. Where is the blame for a system that overloads these people? Why blame the social worker and not spread the blame to others who make the rules?
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
No I was referencing the collective you, not you, Pandora. I agree, I see both sides as well but it is not for me to force others to do as I do.
As for our social service system, it is, undoubtedly, a hot mess. However, I disagree that it is apathy - at least not on the part of the social worker. Apathy on the part of our leaders, hell yes.
maybe it is here where I live
What is the typical case load of the social workers where you live? When you are responsible for hundreds of cases that must monitored and checked on each month it can get overwhelming. Where is the blame for a system that overloads these people? Why blame the social worker and not spread the blame to others who make the rules?
CBG, speaking of scary, so are those numbers you cited. Agreed, a clamp of some kind is needed to ensure the shit doesn't happen to begin with.
It's just crazy...every hour 30 rapes occur in the US...75 since most people got to work this morning. I'd like to see more focus and energy into preventing that and making the question of whether a rape survivor should have the right to get an abortion as much of a non-issue as possible.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
Comments
That guy from 'Silence Of The Lambs'... not whatizname... the 'It take position nothing in... or it gets the hose again' guy?
Hail, Hail!!!
in short yes it would...
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Pandora, it sounds like your sister WAS unselfish and that some beauty of life came from something horrific...but not everyone is that magnamimous. For some, it would be unfathomable, even unbearable, to carry within the product of violence, overpowering, and anger.
(also, may I say that there *are* other things/experiences/people etc. in life that teach us who and what are valuable - and not. I believe we're inherently about I-me-mine and are capable of moving past that when necessary. It doesn't take a child to get there.)
No I was referencing the collective you, not you, Pandora. I agree, I see both sides as well but it is not for me to force others to do as I do.
As for our social service system, it is, undoubtedly, a hot mess. However, I disagree that it is apathy - at least not on the part of the social worker. Apathy on the part of our leaders, hell yes.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
So, do people really think this is God's intent... to have rapes occur... so He can watch? (You know... because God sees all and is always watching and stuff...).
...
Because... to me... and I'm not God... I'm thinking the RAPIST has a lot to do with it.
Hail, Hail!!!
it makes it sound like they mean god intends rape and the child being born.. it's a terrible thing to think let alone say. It's an immoral thing to say thats for sure especially when ok well a baby being born is a natural great thing to occur but not when you take into the consideration that is was born rape. Makes me feel sad for the baby, the mother and the family.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
I grew up in a southern baptist household, all the way republican (although my parents on occasion did vote for a Democrat) and I worked in the financial sector for about 10 years so was a right leaning moderate. I have drastically changed my opinions over the course of the last 10 years, much to my family's dismay at times
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
You know... I sort of get his point (except, the part where he places responsibility on God) about a life being created.
But, unless he is willing to fork over taxpayer dollars to help the mother and child work through the hardships both are going to face downstream in life... he needs to shut the fuck up about what the victims should do until the day he becomes pregnant by a rapist.
Hail, Hail!!!
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
I believe ALL of us agree that using abortion as birth control is idiotic, immoral and just plain wrong.
Hail, Hail!!!
I am sure there are people who do not. Just saying. Maybe not on here, but there are.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Agree.
I think those people need to be educated in the use of other means of birth control... be it, the pill, condoms, whatever. That's why I would much rather pay to get them on the pill... than have them go through an abortion. They fuck. Thay have been fucking and are still going to fuck... there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about that... the focus **should** be on preventing the pregnancy in the first place, thus, nullifying the need for an abortion.
Hail, Hail!!!
I knew a girl, and actually had relations with (before I knew this), who had 6 abortions. Hated contraceptives. Just got abortions if she needed to get one.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Wow. That is fierce. It's like if I hated toothpaste so I got root canals instead.
Hail, Hail!!!
yeah, kinda fucked up.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
"In 2004-2005, 64,080 women were raped.8 According to medical reports, the incidence of pregnancy for one-time unprotected sexual intercourse is 5%. By applying the pregnancy rate to 64,080 women, RAINN estimates that there were 3,204 pregnancies as a result of rape during that period."
Here's the link if anyone wants to read the rest of this section
http://www.rainn.org/get-information/st ... lt-victims
It seems like if we focus on preventing rape in the first place, we could probably also prevent a good number of unintended pregnancies and possible abortions.
I always wonder how much the view that a woman's body's ultimate purpose is to be a vessel for the unborn ties into the view that a woman's body can be used as a rapist sees fit. One objectification linked to the next creating a culture in which a woman's autonomy to her own body is in question?
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
The person that I am today, looking back over my life, taking all the experiences
that brought me to a spiritual place, I feel this one crucial decision is integral.
I could have chosen life.
I didn't realize the mistake I was making in the big picture
that is all life, all life connected .
Revelation comes from the hardest times, from tests we fail, from forks in the road.
I am ashamed to say convenience was my motive. And I knew not what I did...
but I do now.
no one else guessed THEMSELVES.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
how much of a dumb stupid fu(k do you have to be? how clueless can these guys be?
i mean they convince the populous to vote them into a cushy "job" where most everything is free, haircuts to BJs, they can work as little as they want, employ huge staffs, get paid well, receive benefits for life, pensions and etc and then go on TV and say things that railroad the gravy train. these guys really must be the complete and total morons...any wonder why this country is where it is?
What is the typical case load of the social workers where you live? When you are responsible for hundreds of cases that must monitored and checked on each month it can get overwhelming. Where is the blame for a system that overloads these people? Why blame the social worker and not spread the blame to others who make the rules?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
CBG, speaking of scary, so are those numbers you cited. Agreed, a clamp of some kind is needed to ensure the shit doesn't happen to begin with.
"I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"