agree on the innocent men but my belief is there should be 100% certainty of guilt before an execution. to me the issue is not that we do it, but that we do it way too often. as i said i think some cases call for it but would also agree that in most cases it is not called for. saying fully 100% yes or no either way for or against it to me is too strident either way.
as someone else pointed it, guilt or innocence isn't even the biggest part. it's how we are so arrogant that we feel it is our choice to take the life of another, no matter what they did.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
He was 14 yrs. 6mos. and 5 days old --- and the youngest person executed in the United States in the 20th Century
George Junius Stinney, Jr.,
[b. 1929 - d. 1944]
In a South Carolina prison sixty-six years ago, guards walked a 14-year-old boy, bible tucked under his arm, to the electric chair. At 5' 1" and 95 pounds, the straps didn’t fit, and an electrode was too big for his leg.
The switch was pulled and the adult sized death mask fell from George Stinney’s face. Tears streamed from his eyes. Witnesses recoiled in horror as they watched the youngest person executed in the United States in the past century die.
He was 14 yrs. 6mos. and 5 days old --- and the youngest person executed in the United States in the 20th Century
George Junius Stinney, Jr.,
[b. 1929 - d. 1944]
In a South Carolina prison sixty-six years ago, guards walked a 14-year-old boy, bible tucked under his arm, to the electric chair. At 5' 1" and 95 pounds, the straps didn’t fit, and an electrode was too big for his leg.
The switch was pulled and the adult sized death mask fell from George Stinney’s face. Tears streamed from his eyes. Witnesses recoiled in horror as they watched the youngest person executed in the United States in the past century die.
"In 2009, Maryland lawmakers prohibited prosecutors from seeking death unless they have DNA evidence, a videotape of the crime or a videotaped confession from the suspect.
"Eyewitness testimony is so horribly inaccurate — even under the very best of circumstances," said Rob Warden, director of the Chicago-based Center on Wrongful Convictions at Northwestern University. "We should never depend on eyewitness testimony in death penalty cases."
The center says that nationally, out of 138 defendants sentenced to death for murder and then later exonerated since the mid-1970s, 32 had been convicted in whole or in part based on erroneous eyewitness testimony."
"In 2009, Maryland lawmakers prohibited prosecutors from seeking death unless they have DNA evidence, a videotape of the crime or a videotaped confession from the suspect.
"Eyewitness testimony is so horribly inaccurate — even under the very best of circumstances," said Rob Warden, director of the Chicago-based Center on Wrongful Convictions at Northwestern University. "We should never depend on eyewitness testimony in death penalty cases."
The center says that nationally, out of 138 defendants sentenced to death for murder and then later exonerated since the mid-1970s, 32 had been convicted in whole or in part based on erroneous eyewitness testimony."
I think giving killers and rapists decent living conditions for a few decades on my dime is a cool way to fix problems in society.
So long as they get HD TV's and mattresses that don't hurt their backs, weight rooms, basketball courts, and three meals a day, I have no problem with putting bad criminals in prison.
For example: a guy goes and holds a chick at knifepoint. He tells her to take her clothes off. She of course says no and begs him to let her go. He responds by slapping her in the face, pulling her hair, and making her suck his dick, lest she be stabbed to death. He then rips her clothes off and forcefully penetrates her, raping and hitting her as she cries and screams for help. After he ejaculates inside of her, possibly giving her an STD, he warns her not to tell anyone what happened, and beats her until she's unconscious. As icing on the cake, he steals her wallet.
Doesn't sound like an animal to me. Sounds like a misunderstood individual who deserves a second chance. It's nothing the rest of us might not accidentally do someday, right?
I mean, shit, if he goes to jail, I think he deserves to at least have good living conditions. He is a human being, after all. If he shows recognizance, we ought to give him an early release and even give him financial assistance for a few years while he relearns how to be a productive member of society.
I'm sure there's a good person inside of him, just waiting for understanding and guidance. Everyone is beautiful in their own way.
I knew it all along, see?
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,717
I think giving killers and rapists decent living conditions for a few decades on my dime is a cool way to fix problems in society.
So long as they get HD TV's and mattresses that don't hurt their backs, weight rooms, basketball courts, and three meals a day, I have no problem with putting bad criminals in prison.
For example: a guy goes and holds a chick at knifepoint. He tells her to take her clothes off. She of course says no and begs him to let her go. He responds by slapping her in the face, pulling her hair, and making her suck his dick, lest she be stabbed to death. He then rips her clothes off and forcefully penetrates her, raping and hitting her as she cries and screams for help. After he ejaculates inside of her, possibly giving her an STD, he warns her not to tell anyone what happened, and beats her until she's unconscious. As icing on the cake, he steals her wallet.
Doesn't sound like an animal to me. Sounds like a misunderstood individual who deserves a second chance. It's nothing the rest of us might not accidentally do someday, right?
I mean, shit, if he goes to jail, I think he deserves to at least have good living conditions. He is a human being, after all. If he shows recognizance, we ought to give him an early release and even give him financial assistance for a few years while he relearns how to be a productive member of society.
I'm sure there's a good person inside of him, just waiting for understanding and guidance. Everyone is beautiful in their own way.
I don't think anybody here has any respect for creeps like the one you describe. However, the fact remains that societies in which the death penalty is banned have lower incidences of violent crimes (such as the one you so graphically describe for us). Our society is brutal and violent. That is why we have more violent crimes. The death penalty has not lessened these incidents but, rather, has increased them. We need to work on becoming a less violent society.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I think giving killers and rapists decent living conditions for a few decades on my dime is a cool way to fix problems in society.
So long as they get HD TV's and mattresses that don't hurt their backs, weight rooms, basketball courts, and three meals a day, I have no problem with putting bad criminals in prison.
For example: a guy goes and holds a chick at knifepoint. He tells her to take her clothes off. She of course says no and begs him to let her go. He responds by slapping her in the face, pulling her hair, and making her suck his dick, lest she be stabbed to death. He then rips her clothes off and forcefully penetrates her, raping and hitting her as she cries and screams for help. After he ejaculates inside of her, possibly giving her an STD, he warns her not to tell anyone what happened, and beats her until she's unconscious. As icing on the cake, he steals her wallet.
Doesn't sound like an animal to me. Sounds like a misunderstood individual who deserves a second chance. It's nothing the rest of us might not accidentally do someday, right?
I mean, shit, if he goes to jail, I think he deserves to at least have good living conditions. He is a human being, after all. If he shows recognizance, we ought to give him an early release and even give him financial assistance for a few years while he relearns how to be a productive member of society.
I'm sure there's a good person inside of him, just waiting for understanding and guidance. Everyone is beautiful in their own way.
I don't think anybody here has any respect for creeps like the one you describe. However, the fact remains that societies in which the death penalty is banned have lower incidences of violent crimes (such as the one you so graphically describe for us). Our society is brutal and violent. That is why we have more violent crimes. The death penalty has not lessened these incidents but, rather, has increased them. We need to work on becoming a less violent society.
While I agree that the death penalty is not and never will be a deterrent, I doubt people would argue that our joke of a prison system is one, either.
I agree that we need to work on improving as a society, but, I also feel like we should put a bullet in the heads of those who have no regard for the lives of innocent, productive, defenseless citizens. I have neither respect nor reverence for the lives of those who would rape women and children, or those who would kill innocents in cold blood.
As someone who has witnessed first hand the scenes and direct affect of murder and rape on innocents, I personally would not shed any tears if those who committed these heinous crimes (so long as it were proven they were guilty) were killed in the most cost-efficient manner possible.
I used to be against the death penalty. Then, I became privy to the world of cold-blooded criminals who would harm others again if provided with the opportunity. To look into a killer's eyes hours after the fact, and see pride, makes me sick.
While I agree that the death penalty is not and never will be a deterrent, I doubt people would argue that our joke of a prison system is one, either.
I agree that we need to work on improving as a society, but, I also feel like we should put a bullet in the heads of those who have no regard for the lives of innocent, productive, defenseless citizens. I have neither respect nor reverence for the lives of those who would rape women and children, or those who would kill innocents in cold blood.
As someone who has witnessed first hand the scenes and direct affect of murder and rape on innocents, I personally would not shed any tears if those who committed these heinous crimes (so long as it were proven they were guilty) were killed in the most cost-efficient manner possible.
I used to be against the death penalty. Then, I became privy to the world of cold-blooded criminals who would harm others again if provided with the opportunity. To look into a killer's eyes hours after the fact, and see pride, makes me sick.
Deterrent? Do you really think that a person who brutally murders or rapes somebody is preoccupied with what the deterrent might be? I can't imagine that the consequences of such an act weighs heavily on the conscience of a murderer or rapist when he commits his crimes. As far as I'm concerned, the death penalty is simply a way for society to act out its primal fantasies. For centuries, death sentences were carried out in front of a public audience and provided entertainment for the masses. I don't think that the concept is that different today.
I have one question for you; what happens when you execute an innocent man? When the state commits murder, why is it that nobody is accountable? It's incredibly easy to say that criminals should be executed for their crimes but how do you reconcile the inevitable loss of innocent life? You state that you won't shed tears for an executed criminal. What about a wrongly convicted man who is sentenced to death? Does he deserve your compassion?
Just finished watching the airing of the new WM3 after their release
show from Sunday night.
Couldn't help but look into Damien's big brown eyes
and think he might not have been here if not for the dedication of kind souls....
the guardian angels that saved him.
Another very good example why there should be no death penalty.
Just finished watching the airing of the new WM3 after their release
show from Sunday night.
Couldn't help but look into Damien's big brown eyes
and think he might not have been here if not for the dedication of kind souls....
the guardian angels that saved him.
Another very good example why there should be no death penalty.
Hey Pandora, do you recall what show it was? I'd like ot see it.
I also recall Damien saying he spend the majority of his time in solitary confinement. 1 hour of sun a day.
No HDtvs, gym, basketball, cushy matresses there...
if you are against the death penalty, you are opposed to the killing of osama.
whaqt happened to innocent until proven guilty?
I am both. As I was with Saddam.
Me too.
We/society/the law/justice should never stoop to the level of a murderer. And sometimes that involves a tough test - when dealing with particularly depraved individuals. But If society can't maintain a humane approach to life then why should any individual? Maybe this is why America is so riddled with violence. Murdering your own citizens in the name of 'justice', and waging countless wars doesn't exactly set a good example.
Just finished watching the airing of the new WM3 after their release
show from Sunday night.
Couldn't help but look into Damien's big brown eyes
and think he might not have been here if not for the dedication of kind souls....
the guardian angels that saved him.
Another very good example why there should be no death penalty.
Hey Pandora, do you recall what show it was? I'd like ot see it.
I also recall Damien saying he spend the majority of his time in solitary confinement. 1 hour of sun a day.
No HDtvs, gym, basketball, cushy matresses there...
It was on channel IDHD 'Investigative Discovery' channel ... a show called 48 Hours ID aired 9pm
Sunday evening.
My daughter called me Sunday morning .... she new I'd want to catch it
Everything Eddie Vedder
I think giving killers and rapists decent living conditions for a few decades on my dime is a cool way to fix problems in society.
So long as they get HD TV's and mattresses that don't hurt their backs, weight rooms, basketball courts, and three meals a day, I have no problem with putting bad criminals in prison.
For example: a guy goes and holds a chick at knifepoint. He tells her to take her clothes off. She of course says no and begs him to let her go. He responds by slapping her in the face, pulling her hair, and making her suck his dick, lest she be stabbed to death. He then rips her clothes off and forcefully penetrates her, raping and hitting her as she cries and screams for help. After he ejaculates inside of her, possibly giving her an STD, he warns her not to tell anyone what happened, and beats her until she's unconscious. As icing on the cake, he steals her wallet.
Doesn't sound like an animal to me. Sounds like a misunderstood individual who deserves a second chance. It's nothing the rest of us might not accidentally do someday, right?
I mean, shit, if he goes to jail, I think he deserves to at least have good living conditions. He is a human being, after all. If he shows recognizance, we ought to give him an early release and even give him financial assistance for a few years while he relearns how to be a productive member of society.
I'm sure there's a good person inside of him, just waiting for understanding and guidance. Everyone is beautiful in their own way.
There is a man in Indiana who was convicted of shooting and killing his wife 20 years ago. He was recently released because of "good behavior". During his time in prison, he was able to do an apprenticeship to learn how to be an electrician. He is now out of jail and making $30 an hour. Our unemployment rate sits near 10 percent, yet this murderer has a nice job. I simply cannot see how this is a deterrent to criminals. Commit a major crime, stay in jail where you know when your next meal will be, learn a new trade, make some friends. I don't necessarily agree with the death penalty in its current state because it simply takes too long and uses up too many resources. If it was more swift and brutal in those cases where there is no doubt, I think it would be more effective in preventing crime.
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Maybe if Capital Punishment was applied to this monster he wouldn't have continued to kill while locked up in prison!!! ... sometimes there's evil among us!!! I know it doesn't act as a deterrent, but it would most certainly act as a deterrent to this monster.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Maybe if Capital Punishment was applied to this monster he wouldn't have continued to kill while locked up in prison!!! ... sometimes there's evil among us!!! I know it doesn't act as a deterrent, but it would most certainly act as a deterrent to this monster.
in this case - what we should be looking at is:
1. why did they put him in a medium security prison with a cellmate?
2. what is the effects of child abuse?
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,717
The fact remains that countries and states that do not use capital punishment have lower rates of violent crime. Countries/states that use capital punishment think violently, act violently. The statistics are out there, easy to find but I don't have time to look. I will do so later if need be.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Maybe if Capital Punishment was applied to this monster he wouldn't have continued to kill while locked up in prison!!! ... sometimes there's evil among us!!! I know it doesn't act as a deterrent, but it would most certainly act as a deterrent to this monster.
in this case - what we should be looking at is:
1. why did they put him in a medium security prison with a cellmate?
2. what is the effects of child abuse?
Without knowing the details one can only assume he was placed in a medium security jail because he must have demonstrated good...or just plain and simply conned everyone he came in contact with who makes these decisions.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
People like him, Bernardo, Williams, Olson I have no problem with capital punishment anymore...they clearly committed those crimes...hell in the case of Bernardo and Williams they videotaped their crimes...but maybe they were abused as children!!!
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Without knowing the details one can only assume he was placed in a medium security jail because he must have demonstrated good...or just plain and simply conned everyone he came in contact with who makes these decisions.
he admitted his appetite for murder was insatiable ... he didn't con anyone ...
again - violence begets violence ... killing him nor anyone else solves the problem ... all it does is validate a lust for murder ...
and i'm sorry you feel the need to mock the effects of child abuse ... :(
The fact remains that countries and states that do not use capital punishment have lower rates of violent crime. Countries/states that use capital punishment think violently, act violently. The statistics are out there, easy to find but I don't have time to look. I will do so later if need be.
which came first?
do countries feel like they do not need capital punishment because they have low violent crime rates? or do countries who have capital punishment have it because violent crimes were there and the citizenry got sick of it?
deterrent? who cares in my opinion...justifiable punishment for ending another citizens life?...absolutely
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
you want to live in a world where violence is the solution to all that ails ... so be it ... is it any wonder that america is involved in so many conflicts around the world where many INNOCENT people have died!?? ... i wonder if troy davis wanted to live in a such a world?
soo ... killing him was the only way to prevent that? ... how about not giving him a cellmate?
It's 100% effective method. Even without a cellmate, he will be in contact with other human beings at some point in the future and you cannot guarantee 100% that he will never harm another human being in the future.
I wonder if troy davis would have wanted him as a cellmate? Deterrent or not, this guy is defective to the point he cannot function within society, is beyond rehabilitation, and presents an extreme risk to those that encounter him. Is it more humane to stick this guy in a small cell and let him rot away in isolation or put him out of his misery?
Comments
as someone else pointed it, guilt or innocence isn't even the biggest part. it's how we are so arrogant that we feel it is our choice to take the life of another, no matter what they did.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
OH MY GOD.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
That is so fucked up. I can't even fathom this.
"In 2009, Maryland lawmakers prohibited prosecutors from seeking death unless they have DNA evidence, a videotape of the crime or a videotaped confession from the suspect.
"Eyewitness testimony is so horribly inaccurate — even under the very best of circumstances," said Rob Warden, director of the Chicago-based Center on Wrongful Convictions at Northwestern University. "We should never depend on eyewitness testimony in death penalty cases."
The center says that nationally, out of 138 defendants sentenced to death for murder and then later exonerated since the mid-1970s, 32 had been convicted in whole or in part based on erroneous eyewitness testimony."
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/natio ... 81394.html
With all the mistakes, I'm amazed anybody can support such a flawed system. :?
Well shit, if eyewitness testimony is so suspect, why are we even putting these quality citizens in jail?
So long as they get HD TV's and mattresses that don't hurt their backs, weight rooms, basketball courts, and three meals a day, I have no problem with putting bad criminals in prison.
For example: a guy goes and holds a chick at knifepoint. He tells her to take her clothes off. She of course says no and begs him to let her go. He responds by slapping her in the face, pulling her hair, and making her suck his dick, lest she be stabbed to death. He then rips her clothes off and forcefully penetrates her, raping and hitting her as she cries and screams for help. After he ejaculates inside of her, possibly giving her an STD, he warns her not to tell anyone what happened, and beats her until she's unconscious. As icing on the cake, he steals her wallet.
Doesn't sound like an animal to me. Sounds like a misunderstood individual who deserves a second chance. It's nothing the rest of us might not accidentally do someday, right?
I mean, shit, if he goes to jail, I think he deserves to at least have good living conditions. He is a human being, after all. If he shows recognizance, we ought to give him an early release and even give him financial assistance for a few years while he relearns how to be a productive member of society.
I'm sure there's a good person inside of him, just waiting for understanding and guidance. Everyone is beautiful in their own way.
I don't think anybody here has any respect for creeps like the one you describe. However, the fact remains that societies in which the death penalty is banned have lower incidences of violent crimes (such as the one you so graphically describe for us). Our society is brutal and violent. That is why we have more violent crimes. The death penalty has not lessened these incidents but, rather, has increased them. We need to work on becoming a less violent society.
While I agree that the death penalty is not and never will be a deterrent, I doubt people would argue that our joke of a prison system is one, either.
I agree that we need to work on improving as a society, but, I also feel like we should put a bullet in the heads of those who have no regard for the lives of innocent, productive, defenseless citizens. I have neither respect nor reverence for the lives of those who would rape women and children, or those who would kill innocents in cold blood.
As someone who has witnessed first hand the scenes and direct affect of murder and rape on innocents, I personally would not shed any tears if those who committed these heinous crimes (so long as it were proven they were guilty) were killed in the most cost-efficient manner possible.
I used to be against the death penalty. Then, I became privy to the world of cold-blooded criminals who would harm others again if provided with the opportunity. To look into a killer's eyes hours after the fact, and see pride, makes me sick.
Deterrent? Do you really think that a person who brutally murders or rapes somebody is preoccupied with what the deterrent might be? I can't imagine that the consequences of such an act weighs heavily on the conscience of a murderer or rapist when he commits his crimes. As far as I'm concerned, the death penalty is simply a way for society to act out its primal fantasies. For centuries, death sentences were carried out in front of a public audience and provided entertainment for the masses. I don't think that the concept is that different today.
I have one question for you; what happens when you execute an innocent man? When the state commits murder, why is it that nobody is accountable? It's incredibly easy to say that criminals should be executed for their crimes but how do you reconcile the inevitable loss of innocent life? You state that you won't shed tears for an executed criminal. What about a wrongly convicted man who is sentenced to death? Does he deserve your compassion?
show from Sunday night.
Couldn't help but look into Damien's big brown eyes
and think he might not have been here if not for the dedication of kind souls....
the guardian angels that saved him.
Another very good example why there should be no death penalty.
Hey Pandora, do you recall what show it was? I'd like ot see it.
I also recall Damien saying he spend the majority of his time in solitary confinement. 1 hour of sun a day.
No HDtvs, gym, basketball, cushy matresses there...
whaqt happened to innocent until proven guilty?
I am both. As I was with Saddam.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Me too.
We/society/the law/justice should never stoop to the level of a murderer. And sometimes that involves a tough test - when dealing with particularly depraved individuals. But If society can't maintain a humane approach to life then why should any individual? Maybe this is why America is so riddled with violence. Murdering your own citizens in the name of 'justice', and waging countless wars doesn't exactly set a good example.
Sunday evening.
My daughter called me Sunday morning .... she new I'd want to catch it
Everything Eddie Vedder
it was a great show ... hope you can watch
There is a man in Indiana who was convicted of shooting and killing his wife 20 years ago. He was recently released because of "good behavior". During his time in prison, he was able to do an apprenticeship to learn how to be an electrician. He is now out of jail and making $30 an hour. Our unemployment rate sits near 10 percent, yet this murderer has a nice job. I simply cannot see how this is a deterrent to criminals. Commit a major crime, stay in jail where you know when your next meal will be, learn a new trade, make some friends. I don't necessarily agree with the death penalty in its current state because it simply takes too long and uses up too many resources. If it was more swift and brutal in those cases where there is no doubt, I think it would be more effective in preventing crime.
Maybe if Capital Punishment was applied to this monster he wouldn't have continued to kill while locked up in prison!!! ... sometimes there's evil among us!!! I know it doesn't act as a deterrent, but it would most certainly act as a deterrent to this monster.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
in this case - what we should be looking at is:
1. why did they put him in a medium security prison with a cellmate?
2. what is the effects of child abuse?
Without knowing the details one can only assume he was placed in a medium security jail because he must have demonstrated good...or just plain and simply conned everyone he came in contact with who makes these decisions.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
he admitted his appetite for murder was insatiable ... he didn't con anyone ...
again - violence begets violence ... killing him nor anyone else solves the problem ... all it does is validate a lust for murder ...
and i'm sorry you feel the need to mock the effects of child abuse ... :(
In Canada the system believes in rehabilitation...thats why almost every one who goes to jail is eligible for parole.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
which in essence is mocking the effects of child abuse ....
dude you referred to is serving consecutive life sentences ... he wasn't going anywhere ...
soo ... killing him was the only way to prevent that? ... how about not giving him a cellmate?
which came first?
do countries feel like they do not need capital punishment because they have low violent crime rates? or do countries who have capital punishment have it because violent crimes were there and the citizenry got sick of it?
deterrent? who cares in my opinion...justifiable punishment for ending another citizens life?...absolutely
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
you want to live in a world where violence is the solution to all that ails ... so be it ... is it any wonder that america is involved in so many conflicts around the world where many INNOCENT people have died!?? ... i wonder if troy davis wanted to live in a such a world?
there will always be Evil ... Evil perpetuates
I wonder if troy davis would have wanted him as a cellmate? Deterrent or not, this guy is defective to the point he cannot function within society, is beyond rehabilitation, and presents an extreme risk to those that encounter him. Is it more humane to stick this guy in a small cell and let him rot away in isolation or put him out of his misery?