The Death Penalty

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  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero GalaxyPosts: 17,344
    Godfather. wrote:
    MookiesLaw wrote:
    I support the death penalty, Rick Perry and Israel.cheers
    I am embarrassed for you.

    you must be a lonely person,hay ! there's a guy on the train that like to bake fruit cakes.....never mind he has a boyfriend... :lol:

    Godfather.

    That wasn't funny.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • Godfather. wrote:
    bennett13 wrote:
    Actually, lethal injection and the electric chair are not the only legal forms of capital punishment in the US. Ronnie Lee Gardner was executed by firing squad in Utah on June 18, 2010. Oklahoma also has firing squad as a secondary method of execution.

    New Hampshire & Washington have hanging as an option as well. In Washington, the inmate gets to choose between lethal injection and hanging.

    Personally, I'd choose firing squad if I were sentenced to die...go out with a bang, baby!
    didn't Ronnie choose the firing squad ? I think I remember that.


    Godfather.

    He did, actually. He threatened to sue claiming he had a right to be executed by firing squad due to his Mormon beliefs. I'd make the same choice, but it has nothing to do with religious beliefs...I'm deathly afraid of needles!
  • DanimalDanimal Posts: 2,000
    [Frank Drebin is emptying out his files after being kicked off the force]
    Frank: Hey! The missing evidence in the Kelner case! My God, he really was innocent!
    Ed: He went to the chair two years ago, Frank.
    Frank: Well, uh...
    [Frank Drebin quickly shoves the evidence back into the file cabinet
    "I don't believe in PJ fans but I believe there is something, not too sure what." - Thoughts_Arrive


  • Danimal wrote:
    [Frank Drebin is emptying out his files after being kicked off the force]
    Frank: Hey! The missing evidence in the Kelner case! My God, he really was innocent!
    Ed: He went to the chair two years ago, Frank.
    Frank: Well, uh...
    [Frank Drebin quickly shoves the evidence back into the file cabinet


    I loooove that scene. I also like the bit at the beginning of the second movie where Drebin is being honored at the White House for his "thousandth drug dealer killed," to which Drebin responds: "In all fairness the last two I backed over accidentally with my car...fortunately, they turned out to be drug dealers."
  • i fully support the death penalty.

    i think its a shame we don't have it in canada.

    i think it should be a death for a death. if you kill you get killed.

    i understand the argument about letting the fucking scum rot in jail. but to me nothing is more scary then death.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    dCowboyPJ wrote:
    i understand the argument about letting the fucking scum rot in jail. but to me nothing is more scary then death.

    It still doesn't work as a deterrent. Therefore it's just blood lust. Why is the U.S the only Western country to still have this barbaric law?
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    dCowboyPJ wrote:
    i understand the argument about letting the fucking scum rot in jail. but to me nothing is more scary then death.

    It still doesn't work as a deterrent.

    oh and i suppose jail does? :roll:
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,954
    dCowboyPJ wrote:
    i fully support the death penalty.

    i think its a shame we don't have it in canada.

    i think it should be a death for a death. if you kill you get killed.

    i understand the argument about letting the fucking scum rot in jail. but to me nothing is more scary then death.
    what if you kill someone in a motor vehicle accident. no drunk driving, you just collide with another car and the person you hit dies. is that worthy of the death penalty? that is a death, isn't it?
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • dCowboyPJ wrote:
    i fully support the death penalty.

    i think its a shame we don't have it in canada.

    i think it should be a death for a death. if you kill you get killed.

    i understand the argument about letting the fucking scum rot in jail. but to me nothing is more scary then death.
    what if you kill someone in a motor vehicle accident. no drunk driving, you just collide with another car and the person you hit dies. is that worthy of the death penalty? that is a death, isn't it?

    no. obviously not. that is a lot different.
  • dCowboyPJ wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    dCowboyPJ wrote:
    i understand the argument about letting the fucking scum rot in jail. but to me nothing is more scary then death.

    It still doesn't work as a deterrent.

    oh and i suppose jail does? :roll:

    do you realize your statement infers that you think all people who commit crime should just be executed?
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 8,235
    Byrnzie wrote:
    dCowboyPJ wrote:
    i understand the argument about letting the fucking scum rot in jail. but to me nothing is more scary then death.

    It still doesn't work as a deterrent. Therefore it's just blood lust. Why is the U.S the only Western country to still have this barbaric law?

    it's not a deterrant but a PUNISHMENT for an act committed. that's the difference.
  • pjhawks wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    dCowboyPJ wrote:
    i understand the argument about letting the fucking scum rot in jail. but to me nothing is more scary then death.

    It still doesn't work as a deterrent. Therefore it's just blood lust. Why is the U.S the only Western country to still have this barbaric law?

    it's not a deterrant but a PUNISHMENT for an act committed. that's the difference.

    an act allegedly committed.that's the problem. (not to mention taking a life, but you know....)
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • pjhawks wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    dCowboyPJ wrote:
    i understand the argument about letting the fucking scum rot in jail. but to me nothing is more scary then death.

    It still doesn't work as a deterrent. Therefore it's just blood lust. Why is the U.S the only Western country to still have this barbaric law?

    it's not a deterrant but a PUNISHMENT for an act committed. that's the difference.

    Life in prison is also a punishment. Executions are nothing more than vengeance. Honestly, I think that's why there are many people who really don't care if the evidence used to secure a conviction is even close to going beyond a reasonable doubt. The blood lust of the masses needs to be satisfied.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    "I have yet to see a death case among the dozen coming to the Supreme Court on eve-of-execution stay applications in which the defendant was well represented at trial... People who are well represented at trial do not get the death penalty."
    -Ruth Bader Ginsburg, U.S. Supreme Court Justice
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    From Reflections on the Guillotine

    Albert Camus:


    'Could not justice concede to the criminal the same weakness in which society finds a sort of permanent extenuating circumstance for itself? Can the jury decently say: “If I kill you by mistake, you will forgive me when you consider the weaknesses of our common nature. But I am condemning you to death without considering those weaknesses or that nature"? There is a solidarity of ill men in error and aberration. Must that solidarity operate for the tribunal and be denied the accused? No, and if justice has any meaning in this world, it means nothing but the recognition of that solidarity; it cannot, by its very essence, divorce itself from compassion. Compassion, of course, can in this instance be but awareness of a common suffering and not a frivolous indulgence paying no attention to the sufferings and rights of the victim. Compassion does not exclude punishment, but it suspends the final condemnation. Compassion loathes the definitive, irreparable measure that does an injustice to mankind as a whole because of failing to take into account the wretchedness of the common condition.'


    "No government is innocent enough or wise enough or just enough to lay down to so absolute a power as death."

    " ... the moral contradiction inherent in a policy which imitates the violence it claims to abhor and in fact premeditates it."

    "To assert, in any case, that a man must be absolutely cut off from society because he is absolutely evil amounts to saying that society is absolutely good, and no one in his right mind will believe this today."

    "For there to be equivalence, the death penalty would have to punish a criminal who had warned his victim of the date at which he would inflict a horrible death on him and who, from that moment onward, had confined him to his mercy for months. Such a monster is not encountered in private life."
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • For most of my life I was for the death penalty. To me it was simple. Take a life, lose your life..



    But now, what gives who the right to kill the killer? It becomes a revenge game.


    I don't like my tax dollars keeping these prisoners in prison, but from what I understand, it's pretty expensive to execute someone..


    Besides, death is the easy way out. If they really are innocent they should be allowed the hope that someday they can be released, and if not, better to rot in jail than an easy execution..
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    On the subject of capital punishment, what ever happened to good ole fashioned Tarring and feathering?
    Stick 'em in the stocks for a day to be pelted with rotten fruit, then cover them in tar and feathers and chase them about town looking like over-sized chickens.

    Can you imagine someone like Dick Cheney, or Donald Rumsfeld getting this treatment? It would restore my faith in humanity.
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
  • Meg8686Meg8686 Posts: 1,234
    So many points are off topic. The issue here, was TOO MUCH DOUBT I cannot believe the blind faith people have on this thread regarding thier justice system.. which is corrupt as .. and we all know this. the main reason there is so much support for Troy Davis is that it is Worldwide support. America seems to be one of the countrys where the majority do not find this totally abhorrent. the world is watching.

    The real issue here is too much doubt. Witnesses said they were coreced and pressured into giving statements framing Troy, im not going to shout about guilty or Innocence on this thread, only have to comment that It's pretty scarey how they can turn you all against each other so quickly over there. the Governement has such a deady grip over it's citizens... If anything It seems to have forced everyone into this Apathetic Submission where no one really cares who they send to die, guilty or innocent...shrug...

    & thats normal!!! I feel like All our respective governements are fattening us up into lazy docile pigs who just role over...much easier to farm us that way .. stand up for your cause whatever that be. I choose to pursue the abolishment of the death penalty. Pick your own battle and fight for that... Songs like Masters of war & Gimme some truth spring to mind. Go listen to those then visit the Activism Page and pick something to get angry about :)
    Sometimes I speak of nothing at all.
  • It still doesn't work as a deterrent. Therefore it's just blood lust. Why is the U.S the only Western country to still have this barbaric law?[/quote]

    it's not a deterrant but a PUNISHMENT for an act committed. that's the difference.[/quote]

    an act allegedly committed.that's the problem. (not to mention taking a life, but you know....)[/quote]

    It's only "alleged" until the defendant is convicted. At that point, "alleged" gets thrown out the window. The presumption of innocence has been destroyed through evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    On the subject of capital punishment, what ever happened to good ole fashioned Tarring and feathering?
    Stick 'em in the stocks for a day to be pelted with rotten fruit, then cover them in tar and feathers and chase them about town looking like over-sized chickens.

    Can you imagine someone like Dick Cheney, or Donald Rumsfeld getting this treatment? It would restore my faith in humanity.

    The 8th Amendment to the US Constitution prohibits "cruel and unusual punishment." Case law clearly classifies torture as cruel and unusual. Tarring and feathering is torture. Look up the history of the process if you don't believe me. I suppose you'll stick to your "fuck the law" argument at this point.
  • bennett13 wrote:
    it's not a deterrant but a PUNISHMENT for an act committed. that's the difference.
    an act allegedly committed.that's the problem. (not to mention taking a life, but you know....)
    bennett13 wrote:
    It's only "alleged" until the defendant is convicted. At that point, "alleged" gets thrown out the window. The presumption of innocence has been destroyed through evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

    you put WAY too much faith in our legal systems, friend.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • my argument against the death penalty has nothing to do with possibly executing innocent victims (although that is obviously a concern).

    Man has no business playing God. It is that simple.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • my argument against the death penalty has nothing to do with possibly executing innocent victims (although that is obviously a concern).

    Man has no business playing God. It is that simple.

    exactly.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • bennett13 wrote:
    It still doesn't work as a deterrent. Therefore it's just blood lust. Why is the U.S the only Western country to still have this barbaric law?

    it's not a deterrant but a PUNISHMENT for an act committed. that's the difference.[/quote]

    an act allegedly committed.that's the problem. (not to mention taking a life, but you know....)[/quote]

    It's only "alleged" until the defendant is convicted. At that point, "alleged" gets thrown out the window. The presumption of innocence has been destroyed through evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.[/quote]
    If you have so much faith in the justice system, what about OJ?
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • bennett13 wrote:
    It's only "alleged" until the defendant is convicted. At that point, "alleged" gets thrown out the window. The presumption of innocence has been destroyed through evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.


    So seven of nine witnesses recanting their position along with the absence of any conclusive physical evidence constitutes "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt?" No wonder David Bowie is afraid of Americans.
  • I am for capital punishment because we kill approx. 46 people per year on avg. to keep a rule over 310 million people! Simple math would tell us that it saves lives! The deterrent factor saves more lives than 46 per year......its in the thousands or tens of thousands......So if you think deeply.....this rule protects more innocents....than criminals that it kills!
    Theres no time like the present

    A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!

    All people need to do more on every level!
  • I am for capital punishment because we kill approx. 46 people per year on avg. to keep a rule over 310 million people! Simple math would tell us that it saves lives! The deterrent factor saves more lives than 46 per year......its in the thousands or tens of thousands......So if you think deeply.....this rule protects more innocents....than criminals that it kills!

    Please show me scientific research that proves capital punishment is a violent crime deterrent.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • I am for capital punishment because we kill approx. 46 people per year on avg. to keep a rule over 310 million people! Simple math would tell us that it saves lives! The deterrent factor saves more lives than 46 per year......its in the thousands or tens of thousands......So if you think deeply.....this rule protects more innocents....than criminals that it kills!
    If this was true, states with capital punishment would have lower murder rates.

    Unfortunately for you, it is not true, as states with capital punishment do not have lower murder rates.

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterre ... rder-rates

    As you can see in the link above, murder rates are lower EVER YEAR for the past 20 in non-death penalty states than in death penalty states. 33%+ lower in the last 15 years. Therefore, your argument is invalid.

    Facts are fun.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • I am for capital punishment because we kill approx. 46 people per year on avg. to keep a rule over 310 million people! Simple math would tell us that it saves lives! The deterrent factor saves more lives than 46 per year......its in the thousands or tens of thousands......So if you think deeply.....this rule protects more innocents....than criminals that it kills!
    If this was true, states with capital punishment would have lower murder rates.

    Unfortunately for you, it is not true, as states with capital punishment do not have lower murder rates.

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/deterre ... rder-rates

    Murder rates are lower EVER YEAR in non-death penalty states, 33%+ lower in the last 15 years. Therefore, your argument is invalid.

    Facts are fun.


    its nice to know that you love facts....first of all you cannot compare state to state and take those numbers as your only source of result! States with big cities....are different than states without cities! You cannot compare it that way.....Its common sense.....lets see if you can think about this....ready? Many more people would turn evil and up their crimes or rape and murder and armed robbery....if there were NO Capital Punishment! You cannot measure it! Its common sense! You were never disciplined when you were young? This is a form of fear discipline for the weak evil minds out there! For 1/3 of most poor people....prison is better than the poor life they live.....if there was no capital punishment......might as well get a good rape and murder in....so you can go live for free for the rest of your life! For people who are evil.....this rule is a detterent!
    There is no scientific evidence for this...you make me laugh! ITS COMMON SENSE!
    Thats like saying speed limit signs dont limit peoples driving speeds!
    Thats like saying that any form of discipline...doesnt work!
    Its all common sense and necessary!
    Theres no time like the present

    A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!

    All people need to do more on every level!
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    its nice to know that you love facts....first of all you cannot compare state to state and take those numbers as your only source of result! States with big cities....are different than states without cities! You cannot compare it that way.....Its common sense.....lets see if you can think about this....ready? Many more people would turn evil and up their crimes or rape and murder and armed robbery....if there were NO Capital Punishment! You cannot measure it! Its common sense! You were never disciplined when you were young? This is a form of fear discipline for the weak evil minds out there! For 1/3 of most poor people....prison is better than the poor life they live.....if there was no capital punishment......might as well get a good rape and murder in....so you can go live for free for the rest of your life! For people who are evil.....this rule is a detterent!
    There is no scientific evidence for this...you make me laugh! ITS COMMON SENSE!
    Thats like saying speed limit signs dont limit peoples driving speeds!
    Thats like saying that any form of discipline...doesnt work!
    Its all common sense and necessary!

    Interesting response. Can you please now tell us which states in the U.S have no cities? Thanks.


    The death penalty does not work as a deterrent and it never did.

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-a ... th-penalty
    March 18, 2011

    Criminologists' Views on Deterrence and the Death Penalty


    A recent survey of the most leading criminologists in the country from found that the overwhelming majority did not believe that the death penalty is a proven deterrent to homicide. Eighty-eight percent of the country’s top criminologists do not believe the death penalty acts as a deterrent to homicide, according to a new study published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology and authored by Professor Michael Radelet, Chair of the Department of Sociology at the University of Colorado-Boulder, and Traci Lacock, also at Boulder.

    http://deathpenaltycurriculum.org/stude ... ment1b.htm
    '...some criminologists, such as William Bowers of Northeastern University, maintain that the death penalty has the opposite effect: that is, society is brutalized by the use of the death penalty, and this increases the likelihood of more murder. Even most supporters of the death penalty now place little or no weight on deterrence as a serious justification for its continued use.

    States in the United States that do not employ the death penalty generally have lower murder rates than states that do. The same is true when the U.S. is compared to countries similar to it. The U.S., with the death penalty, has a higher murder rate than the countries of Europe or Canada, which do not use the death penalty.

    The death penalty is not a deterrent because most people who commit murders either do not expect to be caught or do not carefully weigh the differences between a possible execution and life in prison before they act. Frequently, murders are committed in moments of passion or anger, or by criminals who are substance abusers and acted impulsively. As someone who presided over many of Texas's executions, former Texas Attorney General Jim Mattox has remarked, "It is my own experience that those executed in Texas were not deterred by the existence of the death penalty law. I think in most cases you'll find that the murder was committed under severe drug and alcohol abuse."

    There is no conclusive proof that the death penalty acts as a better deterrent than the threat of life imprisonment. A survey of the former and present presidents of the country's top academic criminological societies found that 84% of these experts rejected the notion that research had demonstrated any deterrent effect from the death penalty .
    "It's not the daily increase but daily decrease. Hack away at the unessential." - Bruce Lee

    "Don't ride on me man, ride with me" - Byrnzie on LSD

    "Ed Vedder? He sounds like the song of the North West sung by Chief Broom in the body of R.P McMurphy." - Byrnzie
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