EXTINCT

gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,879
edited November 2011 in A Moving Train
this is something i just read and it reminded me of the "debate" in the abortion thread about why we should/should not try to protect rare turtle eggs. this is why we should. extinction is just so heavy. these animals are gone, and the damage to the ecosystem as a result of their extinction is very evident and is now a serious problem for the environment and ecosystems and forests in the northeast.

Eastern Cougar Extinct: Mountain Lion Declared Gone From East U.S.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/0 ... 30181.html

ALLENTOWN, Pa. — The "ghost cat" is just that.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service on Wednesday declared the eastern cougar to be extinct, confirming a widely held belief among wildlife biologists that native populations of the big cat were wiped out by man a century ago.

After a lengthy review, federal officials concluded there are no breeding populations of cougars – also known as pumas, panthers, mountain lions and catamounts – in the eastern United States. Researchers believe the eastern cougar subspecies has probably been extinct since the 1930s.

Wednesday's declaration paves the way for the eastern cougar to be removed from the endangered species list, where it was placed in 1973. The agency's decision to declare the eastern cougar extinct does not affect the status of the Florida panther, another endangered wildcat.

Some hunters and outdoors enthusiasts have long insisted there's a small breeding population of eastern cougars, saying the secretive cats have simply eluded detection – hence the "ghost cat" moniker. The wildlife service said Wednesday it confirmed 108 sightings between 1900 and 2010, but that these animals either escaped or were released from captivity, or migrated from western states to the Midwest.

"The Fish and Wildlife Service fully believes that some people have seen cougars, and that was an important part of the review that we did," said Mark McCollough, an endangered species biologist who led the agency's eastern cougar study. "We went on to evaluate where these animals would be coming from."

A breeding population of eastern cougars would almost certainly have left evidence of its existence, he said. Cats would have been hit by cars or caught in traps, left tracks in the snow or turned up on any of the hundreds of thousands of trail cameras that dot Eastern forests.

But researchers have come up empty.

The private Eastern Cougar Foundation, for example, spent a decade looking for evidence. Finding none, it changed its name to the Cougar Rewilding Foundation last year and shifted its focus from confirming sightings to advocating for the restoration of the big cat to its pre-colonial habitat.

"We would have loved nothing more than for there to be a remnant wild population of cougars on the East Coast," said Christopher Spatz, the foundation's president. "We're not seeing (evidence) because they're not here."

Others maintain that wild cougars still prowl east of the Mississippi.

Ray Sedorchuk, 45, an avid hunter and outdoorsman, said he got an excellent look at a cougar last June in rural Bradford County, in northern Pennsylvania. He was in his truck when a reddish-brown animal with a long tail crossed the road. He said he jammed on the brakes, and the cougar stopped in its tracks.

"I could see the body, the tail and the head, the entire animal, perfectly. It's not a bobcat, it's not a housecat, it's a cougar," he said. "It's a sleek animal. It ran low to the ground and stealth-like. It moved with elegance."

Sedorchuk, a freelance writer who spends copious amounts of time in the woods, said he'd always been skeptical of the eastern cougar's existence, even as two of his friends insisted to him that they had seen them in the wild.

And now?

"I believe that they're here, without even thinking twice about it," he said. "I believe there aren't that many, but there are enough where they can get together and breed."

Once widely dispersed throughout the eastern United States, the mountain lion was all but wiped out by the turn of the last century. Cougars were killed in vast numbers, and states even held bounties. A nearly catastrophic decline in white-tailed deer – the main prey of mountain lions – also contributed to the species' extirpation.

McCollough said the last wild cougar was believed to have been killed in Maine in 1938.

The wildlife service treated the eastern cougar as a distinct subspecies, even though some biologists now believe it is genetically the same as its western brethren, which is increasing in number and extending its range. Some experts believe that mountain lions will eventually make their way back East.

The loss of a top-level predator like the cougar has had ecological consequences, including an explosion in the deer population and a corresponding decline in the health of Eastern forests.

"Our ecosystems are collapsing up and down the East Coast, and they're collapsing because we have too many white-tailed deer," said Spatz. "Our forests are not being permitted to regenerate."

Cougars and wolves, he said, would thin the deer herd through direct predation while also acting as "natural shepherds," forcing deer to become more vigilant and "stop browsing like cattle."

Spatz's group would like the federal government to reintroduce cougars and wolves to the eastern United States, though he acknowledged any such plan would come up against fierce resistance.

The wildlife service said Wednesday it has no authority under the Endangered Species Act to reintroduce the mountain lion to the East.

r-EASTERN-COUGAR-EXTINCT-large570.jpg
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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,879
    here is a link to the list of endangered species on this planet...this list is just those in the animal kingdom, the plant list is even more daunting...

    http://earthsendangered.com/list_html.asp
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • It shouldn't be surprising to us when animals go extinct.... 99.999% of all the species that have lived are now extinct. It is part of the cycle of life... species come and go. The DNA is what survives. You guys ever read the science behind DNA itself being the only intelligent life form? It propagates from one species to another and has for hundreds of millions of years keeping itself alive in everything from an ocean reef to a human being. It is trying to leave the planet now for some reason... and we are the carriers. But yeah... be kind to the cats.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,355
    I'm surprised that western cats have not migrated to the east. There seem to be more sightings in Michigan and Minnesota so maybe they will get there someday.

    I've seen them a few times in the wild (west coast only). It's pretty rare to see them but I'm sure they have been watching me on numerous occasions while hiking. One time I surprised one while driving out of King's Canyon at night. I've never seen something move so fast while being so agile. It scrambled up a 30 foot embankment like a ghost. It is something I will never forget.
  • Jason P wrote:
    I'm surprised that western cats have not migrated to the east. There seem to be more sightings in Michigan and Minnesota so maybe they will get there someday.

    I've seen them a few times in the wild (west coast only). It's pretty rare to see them but I'm sure they have been watching me on numerous occasions while hiking. One time I surprised one while driving out of King's Canyon at night. I've never seen something move so fast while being so agile. It scrambled up a 30 foot embankment like a ghost. It is something I will never forget.

    they are migrating east. They are sometimes found in Illinois now and up until the 60's/70's they weren't found east of western Nebraska and eastern Colorado, as well as in the Dakotas. My family is from Illinois and they own a large amount of farmland... my Dad was out checking fences one day a few years ago and found a dead Mountain Lion!!! (different kind of cat I know)

    The horrible part was that it was determined that someone shot it with a bow/arrow. :x
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,334
    My daughter wants to work in wildlife conservation. She's just hoping there is still wildlife to 'conserve' by the time she gets through her studies (5/6 years time)!
  • pdalowskypdalowsky Doncaster,UKPosts: 13,064
    The loss of any species is gutting to me.

    I was reading the other day that the Chinese River Dolphin is now feared extinct, and there are only 14 'individual' Amur tigers left in the world (a 500 population but the species is at massive threat now to inter breeding), Rhino poaching and Elephant hunting is on a massive surge..... Mountain Gorillas are at a 700 total still (700 in the world!!!!)....and yet people still think these things are ok because they firmly believe for example that by eating or smoking certain parts of these majestic creatures makes them have a better hard on, or makes them more virile. The world is in some respects a very sad place.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,879
    pdalowsky wrote:
    The loss of any species is gutting to me.

    I was reading the other day that the Chinese River Dolphin is now feared extinct, and there are only 14 'individual' Amur tigers left in the world (a 500 population but the species is at massive threat now to inter breeding), Rhino poaching and Elephant hunting is on a massive surge..... Mountain Gorillas are at a 700 total still (700 in the world!!!!)....and yet people still think these things are ok because they firmly believe for example that by eating or smoking certain parts of these majestic creatures makes them have a better hard on, or makes them more virile. The world is in some respects a very sad place.
    completely agreed. sad place we inhabit here. i tried to post pics of 15 of the most endangered animals on the planet but for some reason the stupid bbs "could not determine the size of the image" for any of them when i have posted hunderds of images on here over the years...
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • pdalowskypdalowsky Doncaster,UKPosts: 13,064
    pdalowsky wrote:
    The loss of any species is gutting to me.

    I was reading the other day that the Chinese River Dolphin is now feared extinct, and there are only 14 'individual' Amur tigers left in the world (a 500 population but the species is at massive threat now to inter breeding), Rhino poaching and Elephant hunting is on a massive surge..... Mountain Gorillas are at a 700 total still (700 in the world!!!!)....and yet people still think these things are ok because they firmly believe for example that by eating or smoking certain parts of these majestic creatures makes them have a better hard on, or makes them more virile. The world is in some respects a very sad place.
    completely agreed. sad place we inhabit here. i tried to post pics of 15 of the most endangered animals on the planet but for some reason the stupid bbs "could not determine the size of the image" for any of them when i have posted hunderds of images on here over the years...

    you know it troubles me greatly that one day you may only see a tiger in a zoo. My kids may only see a Gorilla in a book. and that one of mans closest relatives, the Chimpanzee, can be bought for a premium on the black market as a piece of meat. It all seems so wrong, and other than give what i can to the WWF and other like minded people there seems very little that can be done about it.

    It doesnt involve a threatened species per say, but how the Japanese can engage in the 'sport' that is Dolphin Coving is baffling to me......

    i could go on but humans will one day destroy the planet.
  • whygohomewhygohome Posts: 2,305
    Get rid of the humans and give the planet back to the animals. What has the human race done that is so special?
    “We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life.”



  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,879
    whygohome wrote:
    Get rid of the humans and give the planet back to the animals. What has the human race done that is so special?
    we have established dominion over all of the creatures of the earth, and subsequently nearly wiped out a great number of them, mostly for no good reason. that is special in a horibly tragic way. :(
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • whygohomewhygohome Posts: 2,305
    whygohome wrote:
    Get rid of the humans and give the planet back to the animals. What has the human race done that is so special?
    we have established dominion over all of the creatures of the earth, and subsequently nearly wiped out a great number of them, mostly for no good reason. that is special in a horibly tragic way. :(

    Well, I guess we did what we set out to do. :cry:

    And, I forgot that "GOD" gave us dominion over the earth and all non-human species. I always forget to read that 2,000 year old book of fiction before I go to sleep. :evil:
    “We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life.”



  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    :(
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,355
    whygohome wrote:
    Get rid of the humans and give the planet back to the animals. What has the human race done that is so special?
    We invented Coke Zero. :thumbup:
  • LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,722
    They think they've been extenct since the 1930s, They're just making it official now. I think western mountian lions, which is essentially the same thing, are migrating back east again.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,334
    pdalowsky wrote:
    you know it troubles me greatly that one day you may only see a tiger in a zoo. My kids may only see a Gorilla in a book. and that one of mans closest relatives, the Chimpanzee, can be bought for a premium on the black market as a piece of meat. It all seems so wrong, and other than give what i can to the WWF and other like minded people there seems very little that can be done about it. .

    We have a tendency to think of endangered species as the ones you mention, tigers, gorillas, pandas... but there are so many less exotic animals such as some ferrets (which we might think of as common pests) and an enormous amount of insects. Insects may seem a nuisance and 'icky' to a lot of people, but the extinction of some species have a roll on effect on our ecosystem, pollination and ultimately species of plants, food for others and for us.
  • ShawshankShawshank Posts: 1,012
    whygohome wrote:
    Get rid of the humans and give the planet back to the animals. What has the human race done that is so special?

    So are you going to be the first to step up and sacrifice yourself on the altar of animal liberation?

    Yes, humans have had a direct impact on the endangerment and extinction of some species, but extinction has been a normal part of the cycle of life, since life began.
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,334
    Shawshank wrote:
    Yes, humans have had a direct impact on the endangerment and extinction of some species, but extinction has been a normal part of the cycle of life, since life began.

    Of course it has but 'recently' it has been at an alarming rate, not as nature intended and probably not as much as nature intended. This accelerated rate is almost entirely due to human behaviour, directly or indirectly. With a 'normal' cycle of life, the whole ecosystem has a chance to adapt (except for the dinosaurs!!! :mrgreen: ). It's more difficult if things go too fast.
  • Shawshank wrote:
    whygohome wrote:
    Get rid of the humans and give the planet back to the animals. What has the human race done that is so special?

    So are you going to be the first to step up and sacrifice yourself on the altar of animal liberation?

    That's kinda like whitewashing a wall by painting it black, ain't it?
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    Well the only way to help is for everyone to stop having children for a few years to help with the over population growth of humans that need housing among other things......
    Everyone in? ;)
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    aerial wrote:
    Well the only way to help is for everyone to stop having children for a few years to help with the over population growth of humans that need housing among other things......
    Everyone in? ;)


    I'm doin my part :D
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    aerial wrote:
    Well the only way to help is for everyone to stop having children for a few years to help with the over population growth of humans that need housing among other things......
    Everyone in? ;)


    I'm doin my part :D

    I've already had two, but I promise no more!
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • it makes me sick. I just watched two shows last night on animal planet about The Bear Man of Kangulazkakskakazishhhharoo (can't remember the name of the place). He has a relationship with a bunch of different families of bears in Russia. It was awesome. Then hunting season started. Mother Bear lost a few of her cubs to the senseless murder of these wonderful creatures. Why do people do this? What is it that gives man a woody to kill another living being? What severly demented person gets joy out of killing?

    Sport hunters are cowards.

    This guy single-handedly got the hunting season down from 52 weeks per year to 6. that's INCREDIBLE. So something CAN be done. People like that.

    It made me so sad that people do this. This mother bear actually mourned her lost young. She was depressed for a number of days, until she had no choice but to move on for the sake of her other cubs.

    HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOU WERE HUNTED FOR SPORT, YOUR CHILDREN WERE KILLED, FOR THE JOLLIES OF A "SUPERIOR BEING" WHO HIDES AT THE TOP OF A TREE WITH A WEAPON??? COME DOWN BIG MAN, AND SEE HOW YOU FARE. :evil:
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • BinauralJamBinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    Paul David wrote:
    it makes me sick. I just watched two shows last night on animal planet about The Bear Man of Kangulazkakskakazishhhharoo (can't remember the name of the place). He has a relationship with a bunch of different families of bears in Russia. It was awesome. Then hunting season started. Mother Bear lost a few of her cubs to the senseless murder of these wonderful creatures. Why do people do this? What is it that gives man a woody to kill another living being? What severly demented person gets joy out of killing?

    Sport hunters are cowards.

    This guy single-handedly got the hunting season down from 52 weeks per year to 6. that's INCREDIBLE. So something CAN be done. People like that.

    It made me so sad that people do this. This mother bear actually mourned her lost young. She was depressed for a number of days, until she had no choice but to move on for the sake of her other cubs.

    HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF YOU WERE HUNTED FOR SPORT, YOUR CHILDREN WERE KILLED, FOR THE JOLLIES OF A "SUPERIOR BEING" WHO HIDES AT THE TOP OF A TREE WITH A WEAPON??? COME DOWN BIG MAN, AND SEE HOW YOU FARE. :evil:


    :clap:
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 15,879
    Sixth Mass Extinction May Have Already Started: Study

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/0 ... 30947.html

    Scientists say the next mass extinction may already be under way.

    A new study, published in the most recent issue of the journal Nature states just that. And it's man-made.
    The theory comes from research done on the state of mammal species today. When man's exponential expansion began 500 years ago mammal extinctions were rare.

    But in the past five centuries at least 80 of 5,570 mammal species have gone extinct, according to AFP.

    While the number may not seem too large, it could signify the beginning of a larger trend in extinctions.

    There have been five previous mass extinctions in the past 540 million years. In each of those mass extinctions 75 percent or more of all animal species were destroyed.
    The study also looked at a number of plant and animal species that will likely see a decline in the near future.

    From USA Today

    The IUCN lists 18,351 species on its "Red List of Threatened Species," considered the global standard for the conservation status of animal and plant species. All are at risk based on current and projected habitat loss or destruction due to human encroachment and climate change. Of those, 1,940 are listed as critically endangered, meaning the species' numbers have decreased, or will decrease, by 80% within three generations.
    However, it's still too early to definitively deem this the next mass extinction. According to the study, the sixth mass extinction is only on track if things continue unabated.


    Even unhindered, the magnitude of this mass extinction could take as long as 2,200 years to reach "Big Five" levels, according to USA Today. Or it could take as little as 300.

    It's also important to note that it's not certain that many of the endangered species studied will, in fact, go extinct. In turn, the conclusions made based on the data were considered "cautious extrapolations," according to the researchers.
    "There is nothing to writing. All you do is sit down at a typewriter and bleed."- Hemingway

    "i'm not here to start the fire. i am here to fan the flames..."

    If you have never failed, you have never lived.
  • whygohomewhygohome Posts: 2,305
    Shawshank wrote:
    whygohome wrote:
    Get rid of the humans and give the planet back to the animals. What has the human race done that is so special?

    So are you going to be the first to step up and sacrifice yourself on the altar of animal liberation?

    Yes, humans have had a direct impact on the endangerment and extinction of some species, but extinction has been a normal part of the cycle of life, since life began.

    As long as I get to pick the Kool-Aid flavor. Grape.
    “We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life.”



  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,842
    pdalowsky wrote:
    you know it troubles me greatly that one day you may only see a tiger in a zoo. My kids may only see a Gorilla in a book....


    you do realise for millions of people this is the only way they will ever see these creatures. there are also people on this earth who dont even know these creatures even exist. and may i suggest to take your kids to see a gorilla in the zoo NOW before that book does become their only access.
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  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 2,687
    there is some youtube videos of hunters blowing away some bobcats and coyotes then laughing and high fiving as the coyote is writhing in pain as it dies.

    A bow hunter taking out a cougar in a tree with a bow and a pack of dogs…..20 ft away from a treed cougar and planting an arrow in it.

    All for fun.

    You have to be a sick fuck to do that.
  • pdalowsky wrote:
    you know it troubles me greatly that one day you may only see a tiger in a zoo. My kids may only see a Gorilla in a book....


    you do realise for millions of people this is the only way they will ever see these creatures. there are also people on this earth who dont even know these creatures even exist. .

    I don't quite understand your point here, cate.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • and a cowardly piece of shit to boot.
    Smellyman wrote:
    there is some youtube videos of hunters blowing away some bobcats and coyotes then laughing and high fiving as the coyote is writhing in pain as it dies.

    A bow hunter taking out a cougar in a tree with a bow and a pack of dogs…..20 ft away from a treed cougar and planting an arrow in it.

    All for fun.

    You have to be a sick fuck to do that.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,842
    my point is, just as there are species we know only from books, that is the reality for some people on this earth now. They wont ever get to see a tiger or a gorilla not because of the threat of extinction, but because they dont have and will never have the means to see these creatures either in the wild or in captivity... So to them, they may as well be extinct.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
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